Star Wars Rebels - General Discussion

[VCRTracking]

Palpatine recruited Dooku after the events of TPM. Dooku left the Jedi order over among other things the death of his old padawan Qui Gon. Also Obi-Wan didn't beat Maul like a bitch. Like James Bond fighting Oddjob he managed to survive long enough to outsmart him.

[ganesh]

That's a matter of opinion. Maul's lost every duel badly from my pov and should have stayed dead.

[readster]

Something that is a big hole between Maul's last appearance on Clone Wars and his reappearance in Rebels. What the hell happened to him? Palapatine killed Savage Opress and then said he had plans for Maul. Then when he shows up in the season 2 finale. 8th Brother was saying he was hunting a shadow. Then 7th Sister even admitted: "The rumors are true, Darth Maul lives." So, the Inquisitors knew he was alive at some point, but thought he had been dead for years. Why they called him a shadow, because they knew he was some Force user who was in hiding or on the run, but couldn't find him directly. So, where did Maul go in that time span from just before Revenge of the Sith where Clone Wars ended to before Rebels started? I get he was looking for the old Sith temple and holocron, but the rest... doesn't really work. Now, they reveal what happened after the battle with Palapatine in Clone Wars and that he went on the run. Then ok. Otherwise, I think the story needs to end with his reunion with Kenobi and a final battle. 

[call me ishmael]

8 minutes ago, readster said:

Then ok. Otherwise, I think the story needs to end with his reunion with Kenobi and a final battle. 

Hmm.  That will be suspenseful.  Wonder who will win....

[ganesh]

It won't be suspenseful, but we can finally flush this bitch out with the rest of the sewage. It could be a cool fight. Though, it would be OOC for Maul because he can't actually fight. 

I like this show. I was surprised how good it was because I thought it was going to be more kiddie

15 minutes ago, readster said:

Palapatine killed Savage Opress and then said he had plans for Maul. Then when he shows up in the season 2 finale.

I know. Maul was whining (again), and Palpatine was all about "plans". I can't imagine Palpatine would let him live after he fulfilled whatever purpose. Maybe Palpatine told him to find force sensitives who ended up being the Inquisitors. And somehow Maul disappeared while he was in the field?

[Terrafamilia]

14 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Kanan levitating the bridge was awesome.

And needlessly show-offy. If he can levitate that huge stone bridge surely he can handle just two men far more easily.

[johntfs]

It'll never happen, but I'd like to see a Force-user without an established guiding ethos like the Jedi or Sith.  Like a batshit insane evil serial murderer or something.  Somebody that has people praying for Vader to show up and kill his ass.

I get the Rogue One tie-in stuff, but I'm really looking forward to this show getting past the events of A New Hope so we can get a detailed look at what happened between then and The Empire Strikes Back.

[ZoqFotPik]

Regarding Maul, I wish he would have been more developed in the films and/or survived into AOTC. That said, he should have stayed dead.

17 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Whoa, a black, female Imperial captain! I hope we see her again.

 Based on what I understand about the show's budget, I doubt they would go to the trouble of animating a new side character for one episode.

It was nice to have a follow up to Geonosis. I was hoping for Zeb to mention what he had heard about Saw from Kallus, but I'm not sure how much of what happened between the two is widely known. It's nice that Sabine was able to fix her jetpack.

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Like a batshit insane evil serial murderer or something.  Somebody that has people praying for Vader to show up and kill his ass.

Even that, or just some chaotic neutral force user who isn't formally trained by a jedi or sith. I think that's what they were going for with Maul, but he's just not that character. 

50 minutes ago, ZoqFotPik said:

Regarding Maul, I wish he would have been more developed in the films and/or survived into AOTC. That said, he should have stayed dead.

Maul was only meant to be that one-note though. The point with Maul was to show that the Sith were "back" and "mentor dies". Qui Gon:Kenobi = Kenobi:Luke. That's it. 

[DarkRaichu]

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

It'll never happen, but I'd like to see a Force-user without an established guiding ethos like the Jedi or Sith.  Like a batshit insane evil serial murderer or something.  Somebody that has people praying for Vader to show up and kill his ass.

It did happen in season 3 of Clone Wars.  But Savage Opress is dead and so are the Nightsisters.  Let them be  :P

 

8 hours ago, readster said:

Something that is a big hole between Maul's last appearance on Clone Wars and his reappearance in Rebels. What the hell happened to him?

In an Ahsoka panel, Filoni mentioned Ahsoka had a run in with Maul after RotS but before Rebels.  They might have been in a mission together.  This was the reason she was not surprised that Maul was alive when they met in Rebels season 2 finale.

[Uncle JUICE]

I really liked the idea of this episode, but I hated that KlikKlak Geonosian. First of all, it's never properly established (maybe it was in The Clone Wars, but I dsiavow anything that's prequel trilogy related, and pretend that Maul is his own character starting from his first appearance in Rebels) that those stupid bug face group was somehow technically proficient enough to design and construct a Death Star...it just never makes sense to me when some species is shown to live basically animal lives (so that bug group basically lives in anthills, they don't have any specific technology apparent in the PT as I recall, the console in whichever movie they participate in was in like a mud hut, that makes zero sense to me. If they can construct a death star, or design a death star, or participate in any way in the making of components for the death star, then why are they living in mud holes? I know, it's a strange conceti to take issue with, but if you want me to believe they have the ability to CREATE technology, you have to show that, not just say it. The storyline idea itself was cool (planet population extinguished for cover up purposes / ethical decision with the egg, etc), but it in no way required that the citizens of that planet participate in the development of the weapon. They could have simply been on a planet that either had resources the empire needed, or they could have been on a system so remote / disregarded that building the death star over the planet made sense. 

[Morrigan2575]

KlikKlak was obviously intelligent enough to repair and control the Separatist Droids. So there's some level of higher thinking in the race.

I really enjoyed this 2 partner, especially the final lesson for Ezra. I think it helps that I watched Rogue One, (Saw's) Clone Wars episodes and Rebels in very short order. Helped to keep everything fresh and tie it all together.

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, Uncle JUICE said:

maybe it was in The Clone Wars, but I dsiavow anything that's prequel trilogy related, and pretend that Maul is his own character starting from his first appearance in Rebels

I used to not like Clone Wars series but I gave it a chance AFTER I started watching Rebels.  I thought if I liked a series by Dave Filoni (Rebels), I would most likely enjoy the series he directed and supervised (Clone Wars).  Sure it had ups and downs, but it surely treated the prequel years better than ep 1, 2, & 3 combined :P

The Geonosians designed and produced the battle droids during CW so it made sense that KlikKlak had some skills to maintain them.  Also, as Rex pointed out, the droids looked like the Geonosians.

 

As far as this episode, could 1 of you explained why KlikKlak was defending the shield generator with its destroyer droids if the generator belonged to the Empire?  Also, what was it originally shielding?  

[Uncle JUICE]

It's not a question of the capability for higher thinking, it's just that it doesn't seem to manifest itself in any believable way. They just SAY that, they don't do any work to demonstrate it. He's basically living in dirt tunnels, you'd think there would be a level of technology that would have at least made sense with their species evolution. It's like none of their capability for higher thinking and technological advancement was ever focused on improving their own situation. I don't know, it just bothered me. There's also some dissonance with me, where I don't believe a race that looks like that, communicates like that, acts like that in general, and whose purpose seems to just be "look weird", can possibly develop something. I can't say why, maybe it's the lack of humoanoid features (for example I totally buy wherever they were manufacturing clones was capable of doing so).

And by disavow the Clone Wars, I mean anything related to the prequel trilogy / characters. I think Maul was a case where a writer's room said "That character was entirely wasted...maybe we can do something interesting with him." I tried watching the animated series, but couldn't get into it. Maybe it was a little too silly early on, I don't remember.  

[DarkRaichu]

34 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

He's basically living in dirt tunnels, you'd think there would be a level of technology that would have at least made sense with their species evolution.

Perhaps the tunnel system WAS the best solution to inhabit a planet full of sand storms like Geonosis.  As Sabine said, that 1 sand storm they experienced would damage her paintjob.  Anything built above ground would not last after a bunch of those storms.

Perhaps they just did not need to build droid technology (even though they were capable of doing so) because they did not need droids to help them in day to day activities.  OR maybe droids were just impractical due to sand storms and with living undergrounds

[Uncle JUICE]

I get all that, but if you could build a droid, why not build a bunch of droids to help with your tunneling, expand them, etc? Or build droids that could help with stuff on the surface the could resist the sandstorms in some way? In the Movie That Shall Not Be Named, they had above ground structures, and apparently dealings with the Empire, so it's not like they lived an entirely subterranean existence always. I know, this is a ridiculous argument, BTW :). I'm probably being a species-discriminating scumbag, those fake bugs from another galaxy could never build technology because let's face it, they look nothing like me :). 

[DarkRaichu]

IIRC their colony is structured like ants / bees, so they have queen class and worker class.  So if they already have worker class that whole existence was defined by their works, why would they need droids to do their jobs ??  They had enough population to do the jobs.  However, since KlikKlak was pretty much the only 1 left, he had the need to "outsource" the hive security to the droids.  

As far as the above ground structures, they would need to ship those droids all over the galaxy so factory structures above ground would be more efficient.  Plus the war was not supposed to last long, so they would not have to worry about building long lasting structures.  As for the arena, it was just an above ground open place for entertainment.  They could most likely construct 1 quickly if the old one was destroyed by the storm.

 

Lol I clearly have too much time to put this much effort in fanwanking the evolution of Geonosians tech vis a vis their environment :P

[Uncle JUICE]

22 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

 

Lol I clearly have too much time to put this much effort in fanwanking the evolution of Geonosians tech vis a vis their environment :P

Same here for sure, I'm sitting at my desk thinking "well, what would have affected the evolution of this species most likely"? I have no idea why I seized on this idea, but maybe because of the whole Ewok debacle. Now THAT's an episode I'd like to see, but it's a post Jedi treatment: I think someone at MIT wrote an entire paper of the devastating ecological effects blowing up the Death Star would have had on the forest moon. ETA give me a grizzled Ewok survivor story, who is at the heart of a terror cell that targets both rebels and Imperials because he blames both for the destruction of his race. 

Thank god when I'm watching the movies, I have the sense to tell myself "Don't worry about Alderaan's destruction's affect on the cosmological gravity field please." I'd drive myself nuts. Thanks for listening!

Edited January 9, 2017 by Uncle JUICE

[DarkRaichu]

3 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Now THAT's an episode I'd like to see, but it's a post Jedi treatment: I think someone at MIT wrote an entire paper of the devastating ecological effects blowing up the Death Star would have had on the forest moon. 

Umm, my thought was "what moon"? How was the moon still intact when a military structure comparable in size just blew up in its orbit?  The Death Star 2 had  to be close enough to the moon for the shield generator to protect it :P

But I digress ;)

[catray]

15 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

On 1/8/2017 at 11:17 AM, readster said:

Something that is a big hole between Maul's last appearance on Clone Wars and his reappearance in Rebels. What the hell happened to him?

In an Ahsoka panel, Filoni mentioned Ahsoka had a run in with Maul after RotS but before Rebels.  They might have been in a mission together.  This was the reason she was not surprised that Maul was alive when they met in Rebels season 2 finale.

In the Ahsoka novel there are flashbacks to Ahsoka and Maul's last (only? I don't think they ever faced off in Clone Wars, right?) confrontation prior to the S2 finale of Rebels.

I liked this episode as it feels like we're starting to get a bit of meat now that Rogue One has been released. I thought they did a good job of moving Saw from battle hardened Rebel to extremist as the episode moved forward. I liked that he still at least has a holo of Stella-- she's dead but not forgotten. As for Saw's current appearance vs his appearance in Rogue One, the visual dictionary for RO mentions that he needs the life support due to his lungs being destroyed by the Geonosian insecticide so I'm wondering if that dues to residual left on the surface while he was stuck there for two cycles or if he goes back later to recover the canisters for some other kind of attack against the Empire. I know the Rebels aren't supposed to know about the Death Star yet but given that the Empire literally wipe all but one Geonosian you'd think they would have ultimately taken Klik Klak back to Chopper Base to at least learn what he knew! I honestly think it would work within the context/canon we know-- the Rebels could think it was impossible/fake until they get more intel regarding Galen's role or something... it just seemed to wasteful to have that information and then leave it behind! Ugh.

Quote

As far as this episode, could 1 of you explained why KlikKlak was defending the shield generator with its destroyer droids if the generator belonged to the Empire?  Also, what was it originally shielding?  

The shield generator was originally shielding the Death Star construction, but the Death Star has since moved. I was under the impression that Klik Klak's destroyer droids were more to keep anyone out  than necessarily protect the shield generator, but I could be wrong.

Kanan is a much more badass Jedi since he lost his sight-- levitating the bridge was awesome, as was his jumping across the chasm (and Rex's "but he's no Skywalker" comment, lol). Though it gives me a bad feeling we are going to see his eventual death.

I thought the captain on the Imperial light crusier was going to be Rae Sloane but it wasn't! Though I suspect Sloane wouldn't have been so sloppy about pursuing the Ghost and letting them escape.

Edited January 9, 2017 by catray

[ganesh]

Calling the native sentient life form "the bug?" I get the military is going to do that, but I would have expected better from Kanan. 

So, I haven't seen Rogue One yet, but Saw is completely reprehensible. I don't get why Ezra just didn't force choke him given the many opportunities to do so, and since Ezra has shown to use the force effectively in combat. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by ganesh

[Morrigan2575]

I liked last night's episode well enough, it was a filler episode but, it was OK. I did like the ending with Thrawn.  My only complaint is that I hated how Zeb was treated like comic relief/buffoon

[DarkRaichu]

Oh Zeb, you happened to find a droid in a desolate planet and you picked it up??  Best case scenario it fell from the sky, so why not checked if for any spaceship wrecks / debris in the area ???

In this episode Thrwan won.  For the price of 1 Super Destroyer (cheap for the Empire), he narrowed down the rebels location to 1 of 99 planets 

Edited January 15, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[ZoqFotPik]

On 1/15/2017 at 6:39 AM, DarkRaichu said:

Oh Zeb, you happened to find a droid in a desolate planet and you picked it up??  Best case scenario it fell from the sky, so why not checked if for any spaceship wrecks / debris in the area ???

Yeah, that was dumb. At least it was acknowledged by Chopper saying "I told you so!".

On 1/15/2017 at 6:39 AM, DarkRaichu said:

In this episode Thrwan won.  For the price of 1 Super Destroyer (cheap for the Empire), he narrowed down the rebels location to 1 of 99 planets 

Yeah, that 30 second scene in my opinion saved this episode from being 'Complete Filler' to just 'Mostly Filler'. And just for the sake of accuracy, that was just a regular Destroyer. Not sure how I feel about Kallus smiling at the ship blowing up. On one hand, it's the Empire and they are the bad guys, on the other most of them were probably conscripts and Kallus may have even known some of the officers. Just seems like too sudden of a turn to me.

[ganesh]

Kallus was already Fulcrum when we met him, so we don't know if he was turned at some point in the past or was a rebel plant from the start. It's soon for us, but might not actually be. 

[Morrigan2575]

I thought Kallus became Fulcrum after that life saving/bonding adventure with Zeb? Wasn't Ahsoka Fulcrum in S1?

[ganesh]

There's more than one Fulcrum. Zeb said he thought he might have accidentally recruited Kallus, but that's speculation on his part. I don't recall Kallus really saying either way. 

[Morrigan2575]

I understand that there's more than one Fulcrum but everything In Story indicates that Kallus converted AFTER his bonding moment with Zeb. 

[ganesh]

Yes, that's likely, but I'd just like to hear it from Kallus' pov. 

[readster]

That's what also put this episode in prospective is everything Thrawn has been doing is coming together. He let them escaped because in the long run he wants all sections or at least the main base of where they are all at. Easy to do one big wipe out and then just getting rid of a few ship and a few jedi. What the Emperor always wanted, the entire Alliance wiped out. Even after the events of Rogue One now, we see that the Empire wasn't really aware of how powerful the Rebellion was until the plans were stolen. Even in season 2 of Rebels, both Vader and the Emperor kind of tossed the Ghost crew and Captain Tano as more of an annoyance than just a force to be reckon with. Which is what of course lead to their fall in the long run. 

[Jediknight]

If this episode was anything to go by, this Sabine arc is going to be even better than expected.  Good episode, and those last couple of minutes were great.

[DarkRaichu]

This episode was hands down the best Sabine episode to date, and I am someone who find the Mandalorians boring in CW and Rebels.  This episode had so many great moments, from the training, the relationships between character (Ezra & Sabine, Ezra & Kanan, Ezra & Hera), as well as a setup for a grand story arc.  This episode felt like a Rebels episode with heavy CW influence, in good ways.  Even the big guy made an appearance (I knew those stone formations look familiar ;) ) 

Superb episode. 

[ganesh]

That was Kevin McKidd?

Ezra and Sabine "going through the forms" is the cutest ever! 

I really liked Kanan being an actual master for a change. Harsh, but I don't think anyone talked to her like that. 

Seriously though, "My family hates me;" "at least you have parents" was good. Hera/Kanan ripping into each other was good too. I mean, this is a kids' show? This was some of the best character material of Star Wars I've ever seen. 

[VCRTracking]

Great episode. I love how they developed Sabine this season and learning more about the Mandalorian lore with the Darksaber. The sibling like interaction between Sabine and Ezra was fun. Loved hearing Kanan describe how a lightsaber feels and how it's not just like any weaponl.  Also Kanan getting Sabine to let out was really holding her back was great although it did remind me of the scene in Rocky III with Rocky and Adrian on the beach "What's the truth?!" "I'm AFRAID! Do you want me to break down and say it? I'm afraid!" Once again music by Kevin Kilner was beautiful.

Also comment on last week's episode which was a nice filler episode. AP-5 being snarky with Zeb was funny and I like the "Predator" countdown on the Ifiltrator.

Edited January 22, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Terrafamilia]

12 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Once again music by Kevin Kilner was beautiful.

It really stood out. I wish Rogue One's was as good.

[johntfs]

I really liked this episode.  They did well in developing Sabine as somebody other than "the cute girl in the armor that likes to blow stuff up."

[DarkRaichu]

13 hours ago, johntfs said:

I really liked this episode.  They did well in developing Sabine as somebody other than "the cute girl in the armor that likes to blow stuff up."

Speaking of armor, I just noticed how sparse her armor actually was: just breast plate and shoulder covers.  Contrast that to the blue Mandalorian armor the other guy was wearing (I could not remember his name)

[catray]

"Warhead" - not a terrible episode but really only marginally advanced the overarching plot. I liked that the infiltrator droids were based on McQuarrie concept art. My biggest quibble is this: how big is Chopper Base? Big enough that people would see a new droid and not question its presence? I feel like rebels would (or should, at least) be hyper aware of who is coming in and out of their bases and I don't think Chopper Base is so large that they would just ignore a new, random droid wandering around. That felt a little off. Did enjoy Zeb interacting with Chopper and AP-5. I'm definitely convinced Thrawn knows Kallus is acting as Fulcrum, and that probably means he's dead by the end of the season.

"Trials of the Darksaber" - so.damn.good!! I loved all of it. Even though I would be sad if Sabine decided to leave the Ghost crew, it would be thrilling to see her step up and lead an army of Mandalorians against the Empire. Loved the training sequences, Ezra and Sabine, Kanan and Hera, Kanan and Sabine... I hardly know where to start. Even though I'm not a big Mandalorian fan, I've grown to like Fenn Rau and I liked that he brought Sabine new gauntlets to play with. Tiya Sircar did a fabulous job (as did Freddie Prinze Jr). Waiting for a month for the next episode is going to be hard....!

[Morrigan2575]

This was a great episode. I really loved getting  Sabine's emotional backstory. I enjoy her relationship with the other Mandalorian (forget his name). Looking forward to Sabine's family reunion and attempt to unite the Mandalorian's against the Empire

[johntfs]

16 hours ago, catray said:

My biggest quibble is this: how big is Chopper Base? Big enough that people would see a new droid and not question its presence? I feel like rebels would (or should, at least) be hyper aware of who is coming in and out of their bases and I don't think Chopper Base is so large that they would just ignore a new, random droid wandering around. That felt a little off.

Droids are kind of furniture in the Star Wars universe.  You'd notice a new protocol or logistics droid like you'd notice an extra chair in the break room at work.

[DarkRaichu]

Great episode. The fighting scenes were well done

So  they powered Sabine up, made her backstory interesting, added some Mandalorian supporting characters, all of those just to say goodbye ???  

As much as I find the Mandalorian uninteresting, I hope this is a beginning of  long arc.  This would allow the writers to flesh out different aspects of the universe instead of focusing on the crew. At least next season the filler episodes can show "how Mandalorians raid the Empire's outposts" as supposed to "how the rebels raid Empire's supply line for the nth times" :D :D :D

Edited February 19, 2017 by DarkRaichu

[johntfs]

I figure it's more "See you later."  Probably when they bust her dad out of jail.

I don't know that I'd watch a Rebels:Mandalore spin-off but it was cool check in with them.  I'm kind of curious about Episode VIII and if they'll tie any of this stuff back to this season Rebels.  I'll admit that I was skeptical about Star Wars in Disney's hands, but damn if they haven't done well by it.  "The Siege of Lothal" managed to wipe 10+ years of bad taste out of my mouth about how crap Darth Vader was in the prequels.

[Morrigan2575]

I did not expect this to be a character exit for Sabine. I hope it's only temporary and she rejoins the Rebels soon. I wouldn't be the least bit opposed to occasional Rebels episodes centering Sabine and the Mandalorians until everyone's paths cross again. 

[call me ishmael]

It is hard to believe that this would be the last we would see of her although this show has been willing to take steps you wouldn't expect.  But I would guess that either her father will be the leader that Mandalore needs (and she will return_ or else he will betray her and she will need the help of the rebels to save things on Mandalore.  I did think that it was a bit strange that having convinced her that she should take the Dark Saber so that she could rally and lead her people that Ezra and Kanan would be surprised that she would stay.  

[ganesh]

Yes, it's one thing to hold the dark blade. And another to wield it!

That was one of the best fights! I like how Saxon basically was hacking away with the dark saber and bascially trying to use his strength, and Sabine actually beat him because she knows how to properly wield the blade. 

I thought the end was a little corny with Sabine turning her back on Saxon and you knew he was going to try to take a shot at her. 

Rome reunion with Saxon and Rau!!!

[Jediknight]

Oh Kallus, you idiot, you should have gotten on the ship.

[readster]

Yep, he should have. Thrawn might not have known about the planet being replace in his data log. However, Thrawn isn't an idiot, taken by surprised, but no fool. Sad to say, I was hoping the moff was going to get killed by the lieutenant. It would have been a fitting end and would have taken out two problems at once. I think this season is going to come to an explosive end for all of them. 

[VCRTracking]

Late on commenting on last week's episode but I loved it. They really gave depth to Sabine this season only for her to leave. Hopefully it's temporary and we see her again. Tiya Sircar did a fantastic job voicing her as did the actors playing her mother and brother. Loved the fight between Sabine and Saxon.

Tonight's episode had some nice. Great to see Yularen again. Poor, dumb Lieutenant List. Sorry, Kallus. You're clever but Thrawn is too smart to be fooled for long. Again his knowledge of art gave away the plan. Liked how Rex was reluctant to fight a woman!

Edited February 26, 2017 by VCRTracking

[ZoqFotPik]

They should have either replaced multiple planets on the map, replaced another planet and left their base alone, or not done anything with it because if Thrawn has any kind of backup or even a really good memory he will know exactly what has changed. I liked that Yularen and Thrawn didn't buy Lyste as Fulcrum for a second. All that aside, I thought it was just a fair episode. It ultimately was yet another 'The crew infiltrates an Imperial base and gets away unscathed' episode.

Edited February 26, 2017 by ZoqFotPik

[ganesh]

Well, we thought Thrawn knew Kallus was Fulcrum a while ago, and he confirmed it here. Thrawn actually thinks about things and has strategy. He's the first real villain of the Star Wars universe. It's amazing that someone this smart wasn't around for ANH.