S05.E04: Much Ado About Mara

[Sakura12]

Since no one started this.

 

With Dwight now leading The Guard, he and Nathan come to a crossroads over what to do about Mara. Dwight wants her to end the troubles-at any cost-but Nathan is convinced that Audrey’s still in there.

 

I liked this one much better, probably because there was little Nathan/Maudry interaction. I'm glad that Dwight finally asked all the questions normal people would've asked Mara. That's all I wanted show, people to act like people and ask questions. We know she wouldn't answer but the characters still need to ask. Dwight is a much better police officer than Nathan ever was. I loved that Mara brought up that Duke seems to know Audrey better than Nathan. I think that's because Duke sees Audrey as a person and not a toy that no one else can have.

 

Also glad they cleared up what happened between Duke and Audrey in Colorado. I know they didn't sleep together but I did want that confirmed because it was pretty steamy as Mara put it and I don't even ship them. 

 

Haha at Nathan thinking Audrey only came through for him. Audrey's not like you Nathan, she thinks of other people like a real hero. 

 

Of course Audrey doesn't remember Mara's memories because we have 22 more episodes left.

[moviewhore]

Why the hell is this show moving to Fridays at 7? 

 

I'm enjoying Emily Rose as Mara but would like this storyline to end already. 

[editorgrrl]

I don't know which was funnier, Duke Crocker speaking gibberish ("Tickle my pickle!" when thwarted by the Guard, and his written confession about what happened between Duke & Audrey in Colorado: "delicious taco"), or Dave Teagues getting pissy ("Strunk & White can Funk my Wagnalls!"). From the beginning I've thought of Vince & Dave as lovers rather than brothers—so the adoption reveal was no surprise—and my pickle was tickled to see them finally get some couples counseling.

 

Jealous Nathan is just as unappealing as Twu Wuv Nathan. Two sides of the same coin, I guess.

 

According to Wikipedia, Croatoan may refer to:

• Croatoan Island (now Hatteras Island) on the Outer Banks of North Carolina
• "Croatoan", a 1975 short story by Harlan Ellison
• An alternate spelling of the Croatan tribe
• The word "Croatoan" carved into a tree on Roanoke Island at the site of the Lost Colony in 1590
• "Croatoan", an episode of the television series Supernatural

[Sakura12]

Duke speaking gibberish was awesome. I want to rewatch his scenes to pick up what words he was saying. Of course when Nathan asked if he slept with Audrey he could've just shook his head for no. 

 

I wonder if they are going with the Croatan legend with the Lost Colony, like all those people that disappeared went to the dimension Mara's from or Mara's one of the settlers from Roanoke that disappeared maybe when she was a kid. Her aging slower thing is something that needs to be explained. 

 

While Mara's not the best character ever, I want her to stick around so we can find out more about her. Audrey can't do any of that so she's useless to the plot right now. 

[coppersin]

Not much seemed to happen this episode; we had some progress, but by episode 4 I was hoping for more. Even if it's a long season, this is still the final season and I want the writers to go full steam ahead. Instead, the only real tension I'm feeling is re: Duke's hair. Off with the hat! I wanna see what the haircut looks like!

 

There were a few highlights. Mara continues to be delightful with her sneers and snark. Dwight was front and center. And Nathan's deadpan of "delicious taco" was probably my favorite line.

 

According to Wikipedia, Croatoan may refer to:
•Croatoan Island (now Hatteras Island) on the Outer Banks of North Carolina
•"Croatoan", a 1975 short story by Harlan Ellison
•An alternate spelling of the Croatan tribe
•The word "Croatoan" carved into a tree on Roanoke Island at the site of the Lost Colony in 1590
•"Croatoan", an episode of the television series Supernatural

 

 

It was also a part of the short-lived Freakylinks and (I believe) namedropped on X-Files at some point. The genre-lover in me always does a happy dance when Croatoan gets mentioned somewhere - fun stuff usually follows.

 

Maybe we'll get a Virginia Dare cameo? Perhaps as the first troubled person? ...I can't remember if we know how long the Troubles have been around.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I don't know which was funnier, Duke Crocker speaking gibberish ("Tickle my pickle!" when thwarted by the Guard, and his written confession about what happened between Duke & Audrey in Colorado: "delicious taco"), or Dave Teagues getting pissy ("Strunk & White can Funk my Wagnalls!"). From the beginning I've thought of Vince & Dave as lovers rather than brothers—so the adoption reveal was no surprise—and my pickle was tickled to see them finally get some couples counseling.

The two examples of gibberish you've cited can be interpreted as comments using sexual euphemisms. I liked the grammar joke, even though the phrase about the telephone pole was lifted directly from a textbook.

[Shanna Marie]

The moment Dave defended his grammar lapse by insisting that no one would think a telephone pole would be running down the street, I said, "In Haven?" a split second before Vince did. And now this needs to happen.

 

I think every episode needs to include at least one scene of Nathan and Duke handcuffed together and having to cooperate. I've always loved the way they give their interactions a very conversational cadence, even if Nathan isn't talking, where it's as though Duke reads Nathan's non-verbals like they were verbalized and never misses a beat. In this case, they kept that cadence even though Duke was speaking gibberish, where Nathan seemed to know Duke well enough to read the meaning behind the nonsense and was never really fazed by it. So when he first saw Duke and Duke came out with the stream of nonsense, Nathan just reacted like, "Oh, good, it worked, now here's what we need to do." I'm also finding it amusing when Nathan Trouble Whispers Duke.

 

And now we know Nathan isn't insane (well, not insane because he's hallucinating Audrey. There are plenty of other reasons he might be). Both Duke and Dwight have confirmed the presence of Audrey. I guess now they need to try to trigger a memory in Mara and then trigger Audrey's return in order to get info, but that will be harder now that Mara is aware of Audrey.

 

We really need more backstory and motivation for Mara because her actions are pretty extreme to just be "because it's fun!" We're almost getting into campy 60s Batman villain territory here. She just needs a costume with a cape and a clever villain name.

[MizArk]

Dwight has somehow become my favorite character on this show. I just love him. Nathan is pretty but sooo dumb, Duke is fun but ends up too often the comic relief, the brothers get tiresome for me because their interactions always seem so repetitive, Mara is still much too OTT, though I do like the little glimpses of Audrey fighting her. But I find myself watching for Dwight (and yelling at everyone to put away the guns -- "don't shoot Dwight!"). That scene with Mara taunting him about his daughter was brutal.

[Shadda2]

Mileage certainly varies around here, I don't see Nathan as either dumb, or jealous.  In fact I was pleased they didn't go down the jealous road when it was revealed that  something may have happen in Colorado.  Nathan asked the question but not in a particularly accusatory manner and Nathan's deadpan delicious tacos  was very funny.  I could just watch Duke and Nathan all day.  Their relationship is the one I tend to root for the most.

 

This was a much better episode than last week, but I'm really not feeling this season.  Mara is shallow and insipid and I'm so over her.  I have enjoyed a little of the interaction between Nathan and Mara.  He seems to be quite able not to be baited by her.  His tactic of talking to Audrey instead of Mara works and really ticks Mara off so that is an added bonus.   It was fun seeing Dwight's military training come into play, I so like that character.  I'm still a little concerned with the Guard/Police Chief combo they have going.  That is such a huge conflict of interest and really just not a good idea on so many levels and I'm surprised Dwight isn't smart enough to figure that out.  Hubris will always get you in the end Dwight so be careful.  When Mara was taunting him I did want to just slap her.  That had to hurt and he did a great job of not letting it get completely get the better of him.

 

Previously I had said I really hate the whole "I do it because I can or because it's fun" as an explanation for being evil and sure enough the trot that one out yet again.  Either have a real reason or you are too boring for words.  

[LoneHaranguer]

I'd like the writers to clear up whether or not Mara is mortal right now. The guys act like she is (and subject to being harmed). She's acting like she's not.

 

 

Previously I had said I really hate the whole "I do it because I can or because it's fun" as an explanation for being evil and sure enough the trot that one out yet again.  Either have a real reason or you are too boring for words

Why doe anyone enjoy being cruel to defenseless creatures? They pretty much made clear in this episode that's what's going on; I doubt they're going to go any deeper than that. It sounded like the cruelty was a "may as well have fun while we're here" offshoot to whatever the "mission" was, which I do fully expect to be explained.

[Elsinore]

Vince and Dave bored me to tears this week. What was that all about anyway?

 

The only thing I found vaguely interesting was the flashback but otherwise it was filler.

 

The gibberish Trouble shouldn't have been that easily resolved. Was fun while it lasted though.

 

I liked the last scene best. Out of 43 minutes I liked the part where they did what Nathan said they should do throughout the episode.

 

Also, perhaps people should stop verifying if it's really Audrey and/or if she's staying. Pretty sure tickling her would work to keep her longer. Just do not acknowledge the change, because she'll freak out and let Mara have the upper hand.

 

Also, Mara might be assinine in her threats and lies, but she scares the crap out of me when she's daring Dwight to kill her.

[AudienceofOne]

Much better episode although Mara still bores the fucking shit out of me. At the end I hoped they were bringing Audrey back permanently but, nup.

 

Mara brought up that Duke seems to know Audrey better than Nathan. I think that's because Duke sees Audrey as a person and not a toy that no one else can have.

 

 

God that's so true. Nathan always talks about her like she's his Precioussss or something. The idea I would find that romantic is laughable.

 

The Croatoan reference annoyed me because it's so overdone in US popular culture. Oh, the town that disappeared without a trace. I guess this "great evil" will suck the town into the other dimension and Mara needs the Troubles to fight it. So she's using the town as like a giant supernatural defence mechanism. How that fits in with her being a one-note, not-very-bright supervillian, I don't know.

[editorgrrl]

Why the hell is this show moving to Fridays at 7? 

 

According to this article,

[The] move is to get out from under the Thursday Night Football shadow. But since WWE Smackdown owns the 8–10pm slot, 7pm was the choice.

 

[Shanna Marie]

Mileage certainly varies around here, I don't see Nathan as either dumb, or jealous.

Yeah, considering Nathan was actually right. Dwight may have acted more logically and did all the right things, interrogation-wise, and asked all the questions he should have asked, but Mara totally played him. She lied to him and tricked him. They came out of that situation worse than when they went in, and if Dwight hadn't finally listened to Nathan and Duke and had continued thinking she'd told any truth at all, they'd have been screwed. It was when he finally got desperate enough to listen to Nathan, and when Duke was able to back Nathan up, that they got some of the information they needed. They learned how the balance between Mara and Audrey works (that Audrey only remembers things Mara was thinking about) and they learned that Mara was lying about being able to remove Troubles.

 

I didn't see much jealousy. It may have hurt Nathan when Mara tried to bait him about her and Duke in Colorado, but he wasn't angry at Duke at all, didn't show any hostility, and he even used the fact that he knows Audrey loves Duke as part of the plan. I don't even think he's that possessive, considering Audrey wants to be with him and loves him, too. He's desperately trying to save someone he loves who's being hurt. It's just really weird circumstances, considering she's essentially being held prisoner in someone else's body that's also sort of her own body.

[Cardie]

I understand getting the show away from Thursday football, but why not move it back to its usual Friday at 10 slot? Isn't some reality show there now?

I suspect the Croatoan reference does indeed imply that humans have been abducted by those on the Other Side for quite a while. That would mean that Mara, Jennifer and Dave are indeed humans but were born to other humans who live over there and may have been modified by the experience. Perhaps "Croatoan" was originally home to disembodied evil spirits only and they came over here to get bodies and cause mischief. Perhaps the Native Americans figured out a way to send them back--because killing the person would leave the spirit on our side. Then complex things went on with the transplanted humans and we ended up with Agent Howard and protocols for opening and closing the thinnies. The Troubles could be some sort of counter-offensive by the evil spirits. It's pretty clear now that one of them possesses Dave and he was running around closing thinnies, then making everyone forget.

[BlueJay81]

 

The Troubles could be some sort of counter-offensive by the evil spirits. It's pretty clear now that one of them possesses Dave and he was running around closing thinnies, then making everyone forget.

This interview stated that Dave

isn't the one closing the thin spots

 

http://www.thewrap.com/haven-eps-talk-jennifers-fate-daves-visions-and-that-nathan-mara-showdown/

 

This was a funny and enjoyable episode. Not much in terms of moving the story forward but it was better than last week's. Copeland has made the most of his stunt casting and is doing very well this season. Never paid much attention to him before but am enjoying his scenes.

 

I think there may have been a Haven that disappeared or is hidden from normal view.

[icandigit]

I'm pretty easy to please. Nathan and Duke scenes automatically equal good episode to me.  Mara went from entertaining to insufferable in this episode. I could listen to her mock Nathan all day, but the viciousness with Dwight made me ready for her to go. Dwight's response to all the who Audrey loves stuff was priceless. It's kinda nice to have a male character who is not in the I love Audrey club.

 

I think they've been doing a really good job with the brothers Teague. Last week I couldn't connect with Jody's trouble because it was so off the wall. Sadly, Mara mutating it helped bring me in the story. I couldn't really enjoy the gibberish trouble as much as I should have because everything that happens with Duke now just makes me sad. The gibberish was supposed to lighten up the dark episode. It was funny that it was barely a hindrance to Nathan and Duke interactions. Still enjoying the season.

[Tabbyclaw]

I think every episode needs to include at least one scene of Nathan and Duke handcuffed together and having to cooperate. I've always loved the way they give their interactions a very conversational cadence, even if Nathan isn't talking, where it's as though Duke reads Nathan's non-verbals like they were verbalized and never misses a beat. In this case, they kept that cadence even though Duke was speaking gibberish, where Nathan seemed to know Duke well enough to read the meaning behind the nonsense and was never really fazed by it. So when he first saw Duke and Duke came out with the stream of nonsense, Nathan just reacted like, "Oh, good, it worked, now here's what we need to do." I'm also finding it amusing when Nathan Trouble Whispers Duke.

 

Preach it, especially the first sentence. All I want for Christmas is a prequel series about these two idiots being teenage frienemies.

 

I'd like the writers to clear up whether or not Mara is mortal right now. The guys act like she is (and subject to being harmed). She's acting like she's not.

 

I'm reading it less as her thinking she's genuinely immortal and more a mix of generalized arrogance and the knowledge that they (think they) need her too much to hurt her.

 

It's just really weird circumstances, considering she's essentially being held prisoner in someone else's body that's also sort of her own body.

 

I feel like "It's just really weird circumstances" sums up a lot of the odd or questionable behavior on this show.

 

This episode was my favorite so far this season. Everything fell into place for this one, and even if we're still not getting a lot of answers I feel like we're getting somewhere.

[icandigit]

 

Preach it, especially the first sentence. All I want for Christmas is a prequel series about these two idiots being teenage frienemies.

 

I'm embarrassed that this is more important to me than the mythology. Their whole relationship is the thing I'm trying to figure out.

[DJG1122]

Stephen King-"Storm of the Century". Andre Limoge {Legion) wants the town in Maine to give him a child to be his heir oe he will do to the town what he did to Roanoke. Roanoke is where the settlers disappeared and only the word "Croatoan" was found on a pole there.

[Sakura12]

It's just really weird circumstances, considering she's essentially being held prisoner in someone else's body that's also sort of her own body.

 

Not really, nothing belongs to Audrey. She was someone elses personality that they downloaded into Mara's body. If Mara is the real person her mind and body belong to her. Nathan really has no right to push Mara out of her own body no matter what kind of person she is. How would Nathan like for someone to push him out his body and take over it. Because I don't think Nathan's that great of a person, let's have someone else take control of his mind and body and see how they do.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Sakura12

[Enigma X]

I have to say that, unlike a good size of the viewers, I am a Nathan fan. With that said, starting around season 2, I was a bigger fan of the Nathan/Duke relationship than Audrey and the troubles. Also, I was hoping that the cause of the troubles did not involve someone "giving" people the troubles. I guess if that had to happen, I would have much rather it been something that only happened and could have happened in the distant past and not still able to happen now (via Mara and William). I feel like this show has gone from mystical with a sci-fi basis to just sci-fi. 

 

(Sorry...I realize that had nothing to do with this particular episode and that I may not be making sense.)

[MizArk]

Though I spend most episodes shaking my head at him, I'm not a Nathan hater. Despite his often questionable actions I still want him to have a happy ending with his twu wuv, whoever she happens to be by then. And I want Duke to be happy and Dwight to be happy, etc. I just wish they'd tone down Mara or at least give her a few interesting layers. I am intrigued that Sara/Lucy/Audrey and even Lexie seemed to have a common core personality while Mara is just EBIL!! So who really is this person ... and is Mara just another personality or the original possessor of this body? (though William seemed to imply the latter). I'm in to the end and hoping the writers pull it off convincingly!

[Tabbyclaw]

I said on another forum that Nathan is probably the TV character I feel the most protective of at the moment, because I want to protect him from himself as much as I want to protect him from the awful situations that lead to him making terrible terrible decisions.

[Shadda2]

I think it might be interesting to find out that the body does not belong to Mara.  Are these two really spirits, if you will, and Mara and William each simply possessing someone else's body?  Who she wanted to be most, when she left the bar as Lexie, was Audrey.  Does that tell us something larger?  Were all of these other personalities not really personalities but cover stories so she could fit in with the times.  Much like spies who will change their identities to fit the situation they are entering.  The difference in this case is that the different personalities don't know they are having their memories implanted so they can fit in.  They have mentioned that the core is always the same, accept that with Mara the core is not the same.  Does that mean that Mara is the alien?

 

Now that they know that Mara cannot end the troubles are they going to start wondering why they are keeping her around?  I'm interested in Mara's reaction to them knowing she can't end any trouble, much less all of them.  Or did we see that and I'm not remembering.

[Elsinore]

I don't know who said she couldn't end the Troubles (Dwight, pretty sure it was Dwight), but then I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

 

Mara can create them, manipulate them, but ending them is in someone elses hands?

 

Question: Is Dwight acting as Chief of Police or Head of the Guard during this imprisonment business?  Who is taking care of regular police business back in town?

[Shadda2]

Audrey said Mara could not end the troubles.  She said she could not take them away or end them she could only mutate them or give them.

 

I'm more and more thinking Mara is not the true personality.  The body she posses is mortal, but perhaps her spirit is not.  When Howard said Audrey was all too human I think that's what he meant.  The body can die and be hurt or injured but the entity within her might not.  Just speculation here which probably belongs in a different thread.

[MarkHB]

The Croatoan reference annoyed me because it's so overdone in US popular culture. Oh, the town that disappeared without a trace. I guess this "great evil" will suck the town into the other dimension and Mara needs the Troubles to fight it. So she's using the town as like a giant supernatural defence mechanism. How that fits in with her being a one-note, not-very-bright supervillian, I don't know.

You and I must travel in different popular culture circles, as I rarely see it mentioned, certainly not to the point of being overdone.  I did get the reference immediately, though, when I watched the ep last night, and now that I think about I wonder: what if Mara is Virginia Dare?  That would seem to contradict the idea that the baby about to be born in Haven:Origins on the coast of Maine is Mara, though.  (Now I need to go see if Ep. 2 is up yet.)

[BlueJay81]

before she was struck by the tree branch, Nathan noted that although Mara was immune to the Troubles she was not immune to the elements in  Haven. Mara can be hurt or injured and maybe even killed. When Nathan shot William we don't know how he healed them, did he use the aether? Are those his natural powers?and does Mara also have them or is that his role. William did say they made complimentary Troubles so perhaps he is the one who can remove them, I remember when he first told Audrey about making the Troubles, he said 'you made the Troubles and then we made them together. He even noted that she made the crying baby Trouble but didn't specify which he had created.

 

I think there is something bigger than Mara & William, the fact that a meteor storm will rain down and destroy Haven if Audrey doesn't go into the barn points to a greater power having a stake in this. Perhaps Mara and William creating the Troubles points to the nature of their relationship. Maybe they were not supposed to get together but liked the whole rebellion thing and I remember Audrey saying she felt like she would never be afraid again when she remembered being with William.  I think there is more to Mara but we won't see it any time soon.

 Maybe Mara is able to vacate the body and go back to wherever she came from, but that would still leave the question of whose body is it? Perhaps some woman who existed when Mara and William first came to Haven was possessed by Mara or invited her in and is now the one trying to atone for her mistakes or it is just a shell or vessel that was created for Mara to inhabit.

Edited October 4, 2014 by BlueJay81

[Shanna Marie]

Not really, nothing belongs to Audrey. She was someone elses personality that they downloaded into Mara's body.

That was her origin, but the moment that personality/memories joined with that body, it created a new entity. HavenAudrey may have had the same memories and some of the same traits as RealAudrey, but they were different people. Audrey even started discovering that she had different tastes because what she actually liked wasn't necessarily what she had memories of liking. Although her pre-Haven memories were fake, everything that happened since then was real. She had real experiences, made friends and fell in love, and all those experiences and relationships shaped her the way anyone is shaped by experiences and relationships. I bet now (well, before Mara took over) there'd be even more of a difference between HavenAudrey and RealAudrey. They have a shared past, but they're not the same person.

 

So even if Mara was the original occupant of the body, Audrey is also a real person, even if she started as a copy. She has sentience and free will. If she's erased, it's like a death because the person that's left isn't Audrey, just as any new personality that's put in won't really be whoever was copied.

 

So, it's a tricky situation because both of them are currently "alive."

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I'm reading it less as her thinking she's genuinely immortal and more a mix of generalized arrogance and the knowledge that they (think they) need her too much to hurt her.

She's being pretty casual about the Troubles. Even if she's immune to a direct action like having her face sewn shut, that wouldn't have prevented her from being bombarded by a flock of roasted ducks, or being roasted herself.

[Cardie]

what if Mara is Virginia Dare?

 

The executive producers echo Mara's claims about coming to Haven 500 years ago.  I'm not sure what year it now is in show Haven, but there's no way Virginia Dare (b. 1587) was around c. 1514.  I suppose they could have been rounding up and it's really 450+  The origins webisodes seem more like they are set in the early 1600s.

 

[editorgrrl]

The first webisode, Origins - Witches, Part 1, is set in 1698.

[Tabbyclaw]

She's being pretty casual about the Troubles. Even if she's immune to a direct action like having her face sewn shut, that wouldn't have prevented her from being bombarded by a flock of roasted ducks, or being roasted herself.

 

That's where the "arrogance" part of the equation comes in. I don't think she thinks she's immortal in the way that a god would think they were immortal, but the way people who do asinine stunts on YouTube think they're immortal.

[Gudzilla]

 

 

Croatoan Island (now Hatteras Island) on the Outer Banks of North Carolina

"Croatoan", a 1975 short story by Harlan Ellison

An alternate spelling of the Croatan tribe

The word "Croatoan" carved into a tree on Roanoke Island at the site of the Lost Colony in 1590

"Croatoan", an episode of the television series Supernatural

 

It was also a part of the short-lived Freakylinks and (I believe) namedropped on X-Files at some point. The genre-lover in me always does a happy dance when Croatoan gets mentioned somewhere - fun stuff usually follows.

It was also on Sleepy Hollow last season.

[BlackberryJam]

I haven't commented much because I am in the "bored" faction.  I'm bored with Nathan's romantic angsting.  I'm bored with Audrey gasping and revealing herself and I will ONLY find that interesting if it's Mara faking them out because FUCKING HELL it's STUPID.  That stupid stupid gasp every fucking TIME.  And I'm bored with Duke as the comic relief.

 

ER is weak.  If it "looks like she's having fun," well aren't we admitting the acting sucks and it just looks like an actress goofing off?  I don't care about Mara.  I DO NOT CARE about Audrey.  I care about Dwight, Duke, Gloria, the town of Haven, Nathan, Vince and Dave.  In that order.  Audrey/Mara/Lucy/Sarah is not even making the list and that is sad.  ER's crap acting has killed the character for me.  Last year she was clunky; this year she's just high-school camp.  Yuck.  

 

LB gets SHIT to work with and yet he sells it.  I don't like the character, but I believe I'm watching Nathan and not Lucas Bryant.  EB sells it and AC has really come into his own this year.  He doesn't have a ton of range, but he's good at what they are giving him.

 

Until we get real progress, I'm just not sure what to say....except I want to shove a sock in ER's mouth every single time she does that stupid "I'm AUDREY NOW" gasp.

[MarkHB]

Now that you call attention to that gasp, it's reminding me of the gasp Captain Jack Harkness uses when he resurrects.

[BlackberryJam]

John Barrowman can sell me things that Emily Rose can't.  It's like when she played with her hair to show us she was Lexie.  Blargh.  I feel like she falls back on bad technique because she is overwhelmed by the scope of the role.  I'd feel bad for her if this weren't HER JOB.  There are actors who get crap dialogue and sell it, make me believe it, no matter how stupid it is (points at the cast of Sleepy Hollow).  ER is just...bad.  I'm struggling to care about this show because she is so terrible.  I want her to go back in the Barn and just give me a few shows without her to get my give-a-damn revved up.  At this point, every time she's on screen, I want to fast forward.

[dargosmydaddy]

 

Mileage certainly varies around here, I don't see Nathan as either dumb, or jealous.  In fact I was pleased they didn't go down the jealous road when it was revealed that  something may have happen in Colorado.  Nathan asked the question but not in a particularly accusatory manner and Nathan's deadpan delicious tacos  was very funny.  I could just watch Duke and Nathan all day.  Their relationship is the one I tend to root for the most.

So much this! I loved Nathan and Duke's entire interactions this episode, and that Nathan was so unblinkingly accepting of the fact that Audrey loves Duke. I'm just catiching up with the last two episodes (I actually watched The Switcheroo first and then this one), and I really hope they keep the strong Nathan/ Duke relationship going.

[Shanna Marie]

I wonder how much of Nathan's reactions are actually jealousy and how much it's really about insecurity, or maybe insecurity leading to jealousy. He's got serious issues and has been rejected multiple times because of who/what he is, so there seems to be a lot of fear that no one could really love him and that Audrey would naturally choose Duke over him. I think he comes across as a lot less jealous now because he's a lot more secure in the knowledge that Audrey did choose him and does love him. He was mostly freaking out in season three when she was sending such horribly mixed signals. Since then, he knows who she chose, so he can shrug it off and accept that Duke and Audrey have a special bond that doesn't necessarily compete with the bond he has with either of them. It also helps that Duke has been acting more like a real friend to Nathan and not like someone who would mess with him just for grins or steal the woman Nathan loves just to show he can.

 

Something that occurred to me when re-watching the end of this episode when it was being rerun before this week's new one: The memory lapse the therapist and Dave had while that creature thingy (or whatever) was there seems a lot like what Duke and the others on the beach experienced when the Colorado Kid's body was found. Maybe the tattooed man that was the last thing the Colorado Kid saw before he died wasn't killing him and it was one of those creature thingies, since James is at least half from the other world, even if he was born here.