S02.E02: Echoes

[FormerMod-a1]

Sheriff Fred and Bellamy fear that Caleb has returned. Janine wants to work on her marriage, despite Rachael's pregnancy. Margaret learns the fate of the family business.

 

 

[Spencer Hastings]

Grandma is a shady bitch. My first thought was that she definitely killed Arthur. But she also said she was a child when he worked at the factory and he died in '35. I wonder how that works? I definitely think he was amongst that pile of bones.

Maggie's face when Grandma started talking about gender roles and family was hilarious. Poor Henry getting guilt tripped about the factory was tough. The way she told him that he should have gotten over all of the deaths was just brutal. Makes me wonder what kind of person she was when she was alive, especially when I think about how she handled Fred last week.

The show definitely feels different since coming back. It's gotten much darker.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Spencer Hastings

[ottoDbusdriver]

Not a big fan of the reset of the show from Season 1 to the Grandma Langston show it has focused on in Season 2 so far.

Edited October 6, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[coolbeans3131]

I'm liking this season so far. I think Grandma Langston is an interesting character. I like that she's not just a nice granny, but not a straight villain either, at least not so far.

[peggy06]

Not a big fan of the reset of the show from Season 1 to the Grandma Langston show it has focused on in Season 2 so far.

 

It stands to reason, if you hire Michelle Fairley, she's going to have a big role. Her profile right now must be pretty high from Game of Thrones, and then she was in the 24 reboot as well. Whether this will be a good thing for the show or not is still up in the air. The show continues to move at a glacial pace and must rank among the slowest hours of TV. Everything is allusions and dark hints and portentous glances. I for one am ready to get some answers about the returned.

[ottoDbusdriver]

The show continues to move at a glacial pace and must rank among the slowest hours of TV. Everything is allusions and dark hints and portentous glances. I for one am ready to get some answers about the returned.

 

Exactly -- give the audience even a little something answer-wise. And you are bang on about the glacial pace of this show.

 

Why did Caleb and Arthur up and disappear like a fart in the wind, including all their samples that were stored separately ?

 

I'm positive that Grandma Langston had something to do with Arthur's sudden exit -- did they ever say what was wrong with him ?  She visits him suddenly one morning and he's gone -- someone has to put two and two together.

 

One thing that has always kind of bugged is how those who have returned, especially those that have been gone for a long time, do not seem the slightest bit phased by changes in technology, clothes, politics, etc.

 

This really applies the longer the Returned has been gone -- Grandma Langston should be marveling at all the new fangled technology.  Instead she's bitching about the factory -- did she even bother to consider that 'the factory' may have made widgets that are no longer used by anyone ?  Do we even know what the factory made ?  Instead she's browbeating Henry about their families legacy and birthright bullshit -- give it a break lady.

 

I'm curious where Grandma Langston is getting all her wardrobe changes from ?  She's been home two days and we have 

 

Why is Jacob suddenly watching insects so intently the last two episodes ?  And why is now obsessed with dead birds -- is he hoping that they will be Returned too ?

 

ETA: Why is Elaine working in a bar now ?  Didn't she work in a bank in Season 1 -- the bank her father robbed ?  It's only been a week in show time since last season, would she have changed jobs in that short a time frame ?

Edited October 6, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[Blue Plastic]

I thought Jacob was trying to see if other creatures besides humans would come back to life.  He was doing experiments of a sort by burying the bird and digging it up later to see if that would trigger a resurrection.  That's what I got out of it.  I definitely also thought that Arthur was one of the skeletons in the factory, but I don't see how Grandma Langston could have caused the factory workers' deaths if she was a child.  (Hey, didn't Rachel dream something about being in a fire?  That doesn't quite make sense since she didn't die in the factory.)  She definitely was a little crustier than she was last episode but I'm still waiting to see if she's just kind of a pain in the bupkus or outright evil.

 

Maybe Caleb and now Arthur were both "recalled" because they represented errors in the resurrection process.  Caleb was too evil to do whatever the Returned are supposed to do, and Arthur came back sick when normally the Returned are physically sound.

 

It is getting a little old that we get NO bones thrown to us at all except for those in the factory.  Of course they can't reveal everything or there'd be no show, but c'mon.  They really have given us zilch and on top of that they have changed the whole tone of the show between the finale of season 1 and the premiere of season 2.  Adding a mysterious quasi-government entity that is monitoring the Returned does not count as an "answer."

 

Why didn't Henry explain to her that the world economy has changed a lot since Mommy Dearest died?  There may very well not have been a place for a relatively small, old-fashioned factory that made who knows what, even if Henry had been interested in keeping it going.

[Sims Addict]

They shouldn't have made the wife and ex-girlfriend of the pastor look so similar. When wifey bounced out of the kitchen with a post-coital spring in her step (and pissed on old girlfriend's leg to mark her territory), I had to do a double take to see who was who.

 

I know pastors are not supposed to be over-the-top 24/7, but most have a personality of some descript. The actor who plays the pastor seems devoid of any range. Other than Marty, he's the only other "younger" actor on the canvas. He's a bit dry to me. Maybe that's what they're going for. Stoic or something. I saw a bit of emotion when old girlfriend was having a nightmare and nuzzling him, but in everyday situations I'm not getting a sense of him as a distinct character.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Sims Addict

[pitchy]

I love the slowness.  And the mystery of it all.  I like that there are no 'answers' about all of this already.  That grandmother is formidable (or scary) but there's some gray there.  And her mode of communication gives a hint about why her two sons wound up so lacking in communicative abilities.

 

   It seems more a look at all the different reactions or emotions people would have about loved ones 'returning' and there's obviously some kind of answer the writers have in mind, but the show's in its infancy (if it's allowed to continue), and I can't imagine the writers giving answers so soon.  They're too busy setting up the contradictions, and the whole idea is to present a huge mystery!   With one or two exceptions, I really enjoy the acting.       

 

  I did think the writers goofed by writing Jacob's mother assuming he killed the bird(s),  just because others were worrying about him.

Edited October 6, 2014 by pitchy

[ElleBee]

I love the slowness.  And the mystery of it all.  I like that there are no 'answers' about all of this already.  That grandmother is formidable (or scary) but there's some gray there.  

   It seems more a look at all the different reactions or emotions people would have about people 'returning' and there's obviously some kind of answer the writers have in mind, but the show's in its infancy (if it's allowed to continue), and I can't imagine the writers giving answers so soon.  They're too busy setting up the contradictions, and the whole idea is to to present a huge mystery!   With one or two exceptions, I really enjoy the acting.       

  I did think the writers goofed by writing Jacob's mother as assuming he killed the bird(s),  just because others were worrying about him.

 

I agree on the pacing. More and more, it seems like shows are erring on the side of shoving way too much into every episode (catering to increasingly shorter attention spans?) and having their actors keep pace by talking at breakneck speeds. It gets exhausting to watch, character development tends to suffer, and it's hard to keep track of (let alone enjoy) all the plots and subplots. When you burn through so many plot lines early on, the later seasons end up being a joke because the show has already plowed through everything reasonable so they end up resorting to totally unrealistic story lines. (Looking at you, "Revenge", along with a million other examples...)

 

I'm loving the mystery of not knowing what's going on too. IMO it seems reasonable that they're still completely confused by it all and haven't made a lot of headway with explanations.The government and the town both have their motivations for keeping things quiet, so they don't have the benefit of additional researchers, doctors, etc. to move answers along.

[pitchy]

I agree on the pacing. More and more, it seems like shows are erring on the side of shoving way too much into every episode (catering to increasingly shorter attention spans?) and having their actors keep pace by talking at breakneck speeds. It gets exhausting to watch, character development tends to suffer, and it's hard to keep track of (let alone enjoy) all the plots and subplots. When you burn through so many plot lines early on, the later seasons end up being a joke because the show has already plowed through everything reasonable so they end up resorting to totally unrealistic story lines. (Looking at you, "Revenge", along with a million other examples...)

 

I'm loving the mystery of not knowing what's going on too. IMO it seems reasonable that they're still completely confused by it all and haven't made a lot of headway with explanations.The government and the town both have their motivations for keeping things quiet, so they don't have the benefit of additional researchers, doctors, etc. to move answers along.

 

Yes to all of that.  Glad to not be alone in enjoying this slow show.  I'm in recovery from watching the speedy-shambles of Scandal.   Revenge tonight - it's one unbelievable thing after another, and that's supposedly in a normal world where tons of people don't 'return' but now we have the somewhat gullible David :-) and a new arsonist/murderer without any hint of why in her past...    Am on my way to that thread to read other reactions.

[peggy06]

Slow would be okay with me if it was intriguing, but I find this just slow, period. So many scenes that go nowhere and don't even set up anything to wonder about. Also, I agree that it;s jarring how they changed the tone radically from the S1 finale. At that point, it looked like big things were about to shake loose, we were getting the townspeople's reactions on a larger scale. Now it's back to these three or so families. What happened to the doctor who was doing research? What happened to the witch hunt? Outsiders know about this now; why isn't the media descending on the town? I could go with a slow pace if it yielded interesting interactions, but I feel the show is doing a poor job of exploring the ramifications of an incredible phenomenon. Large and small scale.

 

Regarding Grandma and Arthur, I think Maggie is making a connection. Grandma's last words, "I hope I managed to bring the poor man some peace," were significant.

[iMonrey]

Do we even know what the factory made ?

 

Furniture.

 

but the show's in its infancy (if it's allowed to continue), and I can't imagine the writers giving answers so soon.

 

The show is in its second season. Granted, the first season was limited, but I'd say the show has moved past the infancy stage. A weekly series is just a poor vehicle for a mystery: you answer the mystery too soon and the story ends, you drag the mystery out too long and viewers lose interest and give up. It's a real Catch-22. 

 

I don't have as big a problem with Resurrection as I've had with so many other series that had some kind of mystery at their premise, mainly because I like the characters here more. Still, they're in danger of losing me and the rest of what little audience they have if they don't start giving us some solid clues, at the very least. 

 

And after the strong finale in the first season they've back-tracked themselves into a big problem. There should be a lot more people literally descending on this town searching for returned love ones. I don't care if the media has played down the story as some kind of hoax, there are way too many people in the world who take that shit seriously. They should be over-run with tourists and tabloids.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I don't have as big a problem with Resurrection as I've had with so many other series that had some kind of mystery at their premise, mainly because I like the characters here more. Still, they're in danger of losing me and the rest of what little audience they have if they don't start giving us some solid clues, at the very least.

 

This could turn into another version of the Leftovers -- where apparently no answers will be given ever.

 

And after the strong finale in the first season they've back-tracked themselves into a big problem. There should be a lot more people literally descending on this town searching for returned love ones. I don't care if the media has played down the story as some kind of hoax, there are way too many people in the world who take that shit seriously. They should be over-run with tourists and tabloids.

 

Seriously, they show that newspaper article and that's supposed to calm everyone down ?  This would be all over social media and the conspiracy theorists would be having a hey day.  The town most certainly would not go back to normal in a week.

Edited October 6, 2014 by ottoDbusdriver

[chlban]

This could turn into another version of the Leftovers -- where apparently no answers will be given ever.

 

 

Seriously, they show that newspaper article and that's supposed to calm everyone down ?  This would be all over social media and the conspiracy theorists would be having a hey day.  The town most certainly would not go back to normal in a week.

This and This. I am fearing the wrtiers don't know where they are going. If this turns into another "Lost" i wll give up on this type of mystery forever. If it turns into another UTD I may have to just give up TV.

 

Also, so true about the conspiracy nuts. I remember sitting at the dog park shortly after we killed Bin Laden and listening to a perfectly normal appearing couple tell me that the entire thing was a hoax and that, yes indeed, the entire U.S. Cabinet and, arguably, the  most respected military unit ,if not in the world, certainly in the US, were in on it.

I realized then that there is nothing that is immune to the conspiracy nuts. 

 

There is no way this little town would not be overrun with wingnuts and media types. I don't want to see it become the focus of the show, but a little attentkion to it would be nice.

Edited October 6, 2014 by chlban

[iMonrey]

They could have avoided this if they hadn't ramped up the attention meter to 11 in the first season finale. There's really no turning back from that so I don't know how they thought they could get away with this.

[KaveDweller]

Why is Elaine working in a bar now ?  Didn't she work in a bank in Season 1 -- the bank her father robbed ?  It's only been a week in show time since last season, would she have changed jobs in that short a time frame ?

She got fired on account of her father robbing the place.  I was assuming she took the bar job because it was the only thing she could get quickly.  What happened to her brother though?

Also, so true about the conspiracy nuts. I remember sitting at the dog park shortly after we killed Bin Laden and listening to a perfectly normal appearing couple tell me that the entire thing was a hoax and that, yes indeed, the entire U.S. Cabinet and, arguably, the  most respected military unit ,if not in the world, certainly in the US, were in on it.

Yeah, even if the government collected up most of the returned, there are still enough around that someone who wanted to prove it could make some headlines.  Didn't Jacob's DNA test prove he was a match for his parents.  His mother is obviously more than 8-years past menopause, that's pretty firm evidence.  So is Rachel and her dead body (from her first returned time). There's no way that stuff would be staying secret.

[pitchy]

. . . What happened to the doctor who was doing research? What happened to the witch hunt? Outsiders know about this now; why isn't the media descending on the town?

. . . 

Regarding Grandma and Arthur, I think Maggie is making a connection. Grandma's last words, "I hope I managed to bring the poor man some peace," were significant.

 

Re the doctor -- he just "returned" himself after being pronounced dead for years --- on Revenge the other night (David).  Re the character, doc was headed back home to do his research on once-deads' blood features and wanted Maggie to go with him, but she preferred to stay and take care of whatever.

The witchhunt would have been severely discouraged when apparently most of the townspeople had their own loved ones returning.

Someone mentioned that the mainstream world outside decided the town was full of gullible people who would believe anything.

 

   ... Not particularly convincing an idea, with Internet sleuths galore these days.

 

Grandma is definitely unsettling.

Edited October 7, 2014 by pitchy

[chlban]

Re the doctor -- he just "returned" himself after being pronounced dead for years --- on Revenge the other night (David).  Re the character, doc was headed back home to do his research on once-deads' blood features and wanted Maggie to go with him, but she preferred to stay and take care of whatever.

The witchhunt would have been severely discouraged when apparently most of the townspeople had their own loved ones returning.

Someone mentioned that the mainstream world outside decided the town was full of gullible people who would believe anything.

 

   ... Not particularly convincing an idea, with Internet sleuths galore these days.

 

Grandma is definitely unsettling.

Yes, Grandma is definitely the most interesting character yet, IMO. Definite evil uncertones that one. I am sick of Sherriff Fred though. He and Elaine can go out an search for Caleb and never come back as far as I'm concerned. Neither is even remotely interesting. Grandma, OTOH is interesting. 

[Helena Dax]

Not bad! Michelle Fairley is a good addition to the show and she's an interesting character. My theory is that she knew about the fire and the people who died there thanks to her dad or her grandad. I guess her grandad/dad didn't tell anyone about those deaths and hid the bodies there. And she was so angry about  losing the factory because she thought those bodies had been found.

[shapeshifter]

...Why did Caleb and Arthur up and disappear like a fart in the wind, including all their samples that were stored separately ?...

I seem to recall last season concluding that Caleb left when his unresolved issues were resolved--but I don't recall specifics, and they haven't reminded us of it, so maybe it was just a theory of mine or other viewers? Anyway, if:

...Grandma Langston had something to do with Arthur's sudden exit -- did they ever say what was wrong with him ?  She visits him suddenly one morning and he's gone -- someone has to put two and two together....

...it could be she helped him resolve his issues.

About the skeletons: I thought maybe they were child-sized--like maybe SIDs children from the early part of the 20th century.

[theatremouse]

I have multiple thoughts:

1) although I don't really expect this, grandma as a child technically could've caused the fire, accidentally or she could've been evil even as a small child. Clearly she knew about the bodies.

2) I agree that grandma probably caused Arthur to go poof, but one other possibility is the whole "they overeat like whoa" thing and maybe when they don't, poof.

 

I also have a theory about the food thing that how much they eat is proportional to how long they were gone...like maybe...eating everything they would've in the intervening years? That could explain why Marty (gone a week) managed to eat normally when he came back and Maggie asked him about what he'd eaten. He had less compensating to do?

 

I would love to see some grandma flashbacks so we had any kind of idea as to whether this personality is exactly what she was always like. Her showing up with no context, her vibe is villainey/suspicious/mean. But she also could've always been that type of woman, with it having nothing to do with her returnedness. So what seems like maybe she knows something extra about what's going on, might just be plain about her potential doings in the past.

[CocoaGoddess]

I had some serious issues with this show last season, and the pacing especially, but I've come to learn that I'm starting to care about these characters and their experiences. Where the showrunners are failing in terms of plot, they are excelling in character development. 

 

Re: Jacob confirming to Marty that he knew he was a Returned. Last season we speculated that Marty was a Returned as an infant, because he's clearly the baby the Black Returned couple was looking for last season. But has Jacob known all along that Marty was a Returned, or does he just now "feel" Marty is one of them? The show (probably on purpose) didn't reveal how long Jacob has known about Marty. 

[jhlipton]

I'm putting a post re the "food issues" in the Episode 3 thread, as it's more relevant there.

Edited October 14, 2014 by jhlipton