The Relationships Thread: The Cardiac Wing

[HeatLifer]

My favorite Alexis pairing.

[peachmangosteen]

WK looks really good in that pic.

[dubbel zout]

NLG's left hand does not look attached to anything.

[HeatLifer]

Preach, Kim. Mo and Vanessa were so special.

[ulkis]

Lord almighty, what babies they were. Heh.

VM needs to come back and save us from Carly/Sonny true love bullshit.

[TeeVee329]

It would also snap Carly out of soccer mom mode, I always enjoyed how even hearing Brenda's name made Carly's head explode.

[ulkis]

@TeeVee329 you reminded me in the episode thread - has there ever been such a chem free pairing* as Michael and Nelle in recent memory? I think I would seriously rather watch Steve and Olivia than Nelle and Michael. 

*imo, of course.

Edited March 26, 2017 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

Rafe and Molly?  Although, I vaguely remember finding them a tiny bit cute in the very, very beginning.

Kristina and WhatsHisName might be a contender too.

Edited March 26, 2017 by TeeVee329

[Melgaypet]

Brenda is too good for Sonny, and always was. Still, that is some damn intoxicating nostalgia factor. I became a Brenda/Jax shipper, but I had no problem seeing why Brenda and Sonny were drawn to one another. Ah, the days of a real triangle.

[ulkis]

45 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Rafe and Molly?  Although, I vaguely remember finding them a tiny bit cute in the very, very beginning.

Kristina and WhatsHisName might be a contender too.

Yeah, but I don't think Kristina and Aaron (aka whatshisname) were ever meant to remotely be anything. Michael and Nelle on the other hand seems to be their attempt at a big pairing.

[TeeVee329]

29 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Yeah, but I don't think Kristina and Aaron (aka whatshisname) were ever meant to remotely be anything. Michael and Nelle on the other hand seems to be their attempt at a big pairing.

That's true.

Molly and Rafe is probably the closer parallel then, Ron definitely wanted them to happen.

[HeatLifer]

3 hours ago, ulkis said:

VM needs to come back and save us from Carly/Sonny true love bullshit.

How did we get here? Is this SBu's fault? Probably.

[ulkis]

31 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

How did we get here? Is this SBu's fault? Probably.

HE needs to come back and save us from it. He can come back as the real Jason, who realizes he loves Carly after all. :D

[Melgaypet]

6 hours ago, ulkis said:

HE needs to come back and save us from it. He can come back as the real Jason, who realizes he loves Carly after all. :D

He might as well. I've decided Carly's primacy is all Jason's fault. If he hadn't agreed to play daddy to baby Michael, she would probably have been run out of town on a rail years ago. Or she and AJ would have become the next generation Alan-and-Monica LIKE THEY SHOULD HAVE.

Don't try to logic me out of this, y'all. It's Jason's fault.

[HeatLifer]

10 hours ago, ulkis said:

HE needs to come back and save us from it. He can come back as the real Jason, who realizes he loves Carly after all. :D

ALL JASONS ONLY LOVE SAM, HOW DARE U.

[ulkis]

Not old crusty Jason!

[HeatLifer]

58 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Not old crusty Jason!

It's OK as long as his name is Jason.

[peachmangosteen]

7 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I wasn't a fan, but I still can't believe they never did Liason romantically (for real) before Sam ever arrived.

Wait, Jason/Liz never happened for real? LOL wow.

[HeatLifer]

7 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Wait, Jason/Liz never happened for real? LOL wow.

Before Sam, never. After Sam, it was a secret relationship, essentially. 

[peachmangosteen]

People are SO into them that I figured they had an actual thing before Jason/Sam. Damn!

[HeatLifer]

Just now, peachmangosteen said:

People are SO into them that I figured they had an actual thing before Jason/Sam. Damn!

Well, I'm sure their fans thought it was real, lol. I'm more talking literally. They were literally never together, but they were obviously written as will they/won't they.

[peachmangosteen]

18 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

They were literally never together, but they were obviously written as will they/won't they.

I knew they were a will they/won't they, but I just figured at some point they, well, did!

[Melgaypet]

5 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I knew they were a will they/won't they, but I just figured at some point they, well, did!

Well, they Did The Sex after Liz caught drugged up Lucky fucking Maxie in their marriage bed and Jason saw Sam fucking Ric in Alexis' house. In fact, I think that was the only time, pre-Jake Doe. I could be wrong, though.

But, yeah, they've never actually been in relationship at the same time. I hate Jason and don't want him with Liz, but that's ridiculous

[UYI]

20 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

Well, they Did The Sex after Liz caught drugged up Lucky fucking Maxie in their marriage bed and Jason saw Sam fucking Ric in Alexis' house. In fact, I think that was the only time, pre-Jake Doe. I could be wrong, though.

But, yeah, they've never actually been in relationship at the same time. I hate Jason and don't want him with Liz, but that's ridiculous

They had sex at least once after Jake was born in 2007. It may have been right after Lucky found out the truth. 

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, UYI said:

They had sex at least once after Jake was born in 2007. It may have been right after Lucky found out the truth. 

LMAO. Damn, Liz!

[UYI]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

LMAO. Damn, Liz!

Well, a few DAYS later, maybe.

Okay, here we go. This is shortly after Lucky found out/Emily died.

Correction: Right after Emily's FUNERAL, which Jason was forbidden to attend by Monica, though he showed up in the doorway when Liz was giving the eulogy to show off his man pain.

Edited April 1, 2017 by UYI

[Bringonthedrama]

6 hours ago, UYI said:

They had sex at least once after Jake was born in 2007. It may have been right after Lucky found out the truth. 

They met up in secret after this, when Jake was a baby. Then they stopped when Jason was overcome with self-loathing, and guilt for Liz, because Jake got kidnapped (from a cabin where Liz, Cam and Jake were hiding out with Sam) and only survived it because of Sam. Jake was taken to a back room of some bar run by thugs who were enemies. They rigged the place to explode and Jason didn't factor that in when he attacked. Sam went along to help, grabbed Jake and jumped out a window when the place exploded. So Sam was forgiven re: events of the past involving Cam, and Cam and Jake. 

[HeatLifer]

2 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Sam went along to help, grabbed Jake and jumped out a window when the place exploded. So Sam was forgiven re: events of the past involving Cam, and Cam and Jake. 

And this is an example of what the writers gave Sam to "redeem" her and what the writers failed to do for Liz in the Jason lie. 

[katie9918]

God damn, I just hated Jason and Liz at this time, because Lucky (and Sam) got thrown under the bus to "justify" the whole thing.

 

I've always hated Jason Morgan, but Liz has yet to recover in my eyes from that putrid story, especially since she had emotionally checked out from Lucky leading up to the injury that started the addiction that ruined his life.

Edited April 1, 2017 by katie9918

[HeatLifer]

Lucky got thrown under the bus for Jason the second JJ left the role. 

[katie9918]

41 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Lucky got thrown under the bus for Jason the second JJ left the role. 

Not entirely true. 

 

Guza underestimated the fact that, while JJ for some reason couldn't be replaced (and I was definitely in the minority of being thoroughly sick of his entitled, Luke's mini-me ass at least a year before he vacated the role), fans would accept a halfway reasonably okay actor as long as the character remained intact. He decided to destroy Lucky outright in favor of murderer Jason when GV wasn't completely hated in the role and, with halfway fair writing, would have more than stood a chance against an unrepentant serial killer.

[Oracle42]

I don't think Lucky would have been destroyed for Jason if they'd found a better recast. I remember watching them try to find/show/create some aspect of Lucky in GV and it just never worked out. He was a bad fit.

The thing that I thought GV did beautifully was the development of Lucky as a good dad.  I think JJ's Lucky was indebted to him for that. I'm not sure they would have written that for JJ because JJ was such a mini-me of Luke. There would have been angst about parenting Liz's various "miracles. Instead, the  abandonment of these children seems like an OOC betrayal of Lucky's character instead of just something Luke's son would do.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Oracle42

[coffee drinker]

On 3/30/2017 at 0:20 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Wait, Jason/Liz never happened for real? LOL wow.

Thank Guza/Frons for that.  When Burton returned in 2002 full-time it appeared the writers were ready to press ahead with them.  But that wasn't the case at all according to Guza.  Guza instead derailed Liason for the likes of Jason/DockHo (Corky).  Sonny's blond half sister.  Frons was all over making Willis a lead actress and Guza wanted the "angst" of Jason porking Sonny's sissy behind his back (for awhile).  Jason was a real dirtbag porking DockHo in his brother AJ's marriage bed with no qualms.  Elizabeth got left in the dust as the jealous harpy.  It was the beginning of the flab four (S&C and Jourtney).  On every single day for months on end.  Involved in every single storyline.  

Then when Frons brought over his pet KMo, Willis was banished (in her mind) to working with Jax and Nik.  Guza had no use for the character and killed her off when he had the chance.  Burton offered to help out the floundering Sam character and it went from there.  

For what it's worth, Frons said, in print, that he never understood the appeal of Elizabeth/BH.  

[Ambrosefolly]

On 4/1/2017 at 8:40 AM, Oracle42 said:

I don't think Lucky would have been destroyed for Jason if they'd found a better recast. I remember watching them try to find/show/create some aspect of Lucky in GV and it just never worked out. He was a bad fit.

The thing that I thought GV did beautifully was the development of Lucky as a good dad.  I think JJ's Lucky was indebted to him for that. I'm not sure they would have written that for JJ because JJ was such a mini-me of Luke. There would have been angst about parenting Liz's various "miracles. Instead, the  abandonment of these children seems like an OOC betrayal of Lucky's character instead of just something Luke's son would do.

 

While GV never fit in as Lucky nor what we deem a "Spencer", what the show never got that people did like GV, even if he made Lucky kind of dumb. If nothing else, his Lucky came off as a decent guy. The show did all they could to ruin Lucky in order to prop Jason when Liason was a go, but GV's Lucky was able to bounce back after Lucky recovered from the character destroying drug addiction they foisted on him and the seediness of inception of LuSam wore off. I think TIIC were surprised that LuSam took off the way it did, lord knows Lucky treated her more as an equal than Jason did. 

[dubbel zout]

We didn't nickname GV's Lucky "Larry" for nothing. I didn't mind a more mature Lucky (in age and emotional growth) which is what GV was supposed to be, and I loved his natural warmth, but the writing wasn't Lucky.

[Oracle42]

I tend to wonder though, how much of that was GV's popularity vs any Lucky being better than no Lucky on the canvas at all. I do think the writers tried in his early stories to write for Lucky, but GV could not pull off savvy, soulful... or intelligent. But I liked Det. Spencer and if Guza hadn't caved with Ethan as Luke's son, they could have done some awesome callbacks to Robert/Luke with JJLucky/Ethan

I think if GV had been introduced as Sly or random new guy, he would've been relegated to the backburner before being written off. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

31 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

I tend to wonder though, how much of that was GV's popularity vs any Lucky being better than no Lucky on the canvas at all. I do think the writers tried in his early stories to write for Lucky, but GV could not pull off savvy, soulful... or intelligent. But I liked Det. Spencer and if Guza hadn't caved with Ethan as Luke's son, they could have done since awesome callbacks to Robert/Luke with JJLucky/Ethan

I think if GV had been introduced as Sly or random new guy, he would've been relegated to the backburner before being written off. 

I agree. I liked GV, but only as a stand-in. I would have taken a recast in an instant. Oh, it also helped that JY was awful in the part. Almost anyone was a relief at that point.

(To be fair to JY, it wasn't just his acting. It was the writing of course but physically he just did not really fit as Lucky.)

[ulkis]

okay, if you're a fan of Franco/Liz, turn away.

WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT. WHAT DID I JUST WATCH. WAS IT THIS?

this was just my face the whole time:

The nasty strands of hair in her face, him just painting a swatch of red paint on the canvas even though there was zero red on the painting later, the serious squinting  . . . just wtf.

[Oracle42]

Duh. Red is for passion - to symbolize their passionate and sexy.......I can't.

How are there people who are legitimate fans of this terribleness?

Edited April 8, 2017 by Oracle42

[ulkis]

this moment

https://youtu.be/XRUbJD9qVjM?t=70

pretty much was an exact imitation of this moment (putting the picture under a spoiler cut because it's big):

Edited April 8, 2017 by ulkis

[ulkis]

21 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Duh. Red is for passion - to symbolize their passionate and sexy.......I can't.

How are there people who are legitimate fans of this terribleness

I actually saw this post:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spmmqo

Basically I’m dumbfounded how any Liz fan can be so anti-Friz. Re-read all of the above, and then add to that: incredible chemistry between two actors, incredible commitment by two actors to portray a story beautifully, and happiness and delight from both actors to be paired with each other.

So I'm not going to ask how can someone like that. I can see how someone can like it. But at the same time, I'm gonna dislike it as well. 
 

[Oracle42]

I wish they did have incredible chemistry. I'm a chem whore, I'd ship it.  A pairing that is this ill-conceived needs incredible chemistry like people need oxygen. It needs L&L chemistry and it has.. well, it has Franco/Liz chemistry and terrible writing.

RoHo and BH are decent scene partners with okay (at most) chemistry.  And I've seen both of them generate incredible chemistry - in multiple different pairings (and with RoHo, on two separate shows) so I know that they're both capable of it. The gulf between what they've had in other pairings and the okay (at most) chemistry in this one is visible from space.

[Ambrosefolly]

15 hours ago, ulkis said:

I actually saw this post:

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spmmqo

Basically I’m dumbfounded how any Liz fan can be so anti-Friz. Re-read all of the above, and then add to that: incredible chemistry between two actors, incredible commitment by two actors to portray a story beautifully, and happiness and delight from both actors to be paired with each other.

So I'm not going to ask how can someone like that. I can see how someone can like it. But at the same time, I'm gonna dislike it as well. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow. I can blow so many holes in her fawning over Friz. First, don't fucking remind me that at least 50% of the characters should be in prison right now, for decades or life. Thank Guza for the stench of criminality that is on the show right now. Since Monty took over, there have always been criminals or violent assholes front and center, but there were several competent good guys to balance it out, but Guza made the criminals, acting like violent criminals the romantic heroes and the good guys as incompetent. . She contradicts herself within her praise. He doesn't put her on a pedestal, yet she is amazing to him! I'll put it this way, he puts her on as much as a pedestal as Luke put Laura (Luke's Angel), yet it manages to come off creepier despite the fact Luke raped Laura. Liz is his first and only choice? He was engaged to Carly and that imploded spectacularly and he was with Nina before that relationship fizzled out. No other woman will look twice at him, nor can he creepily insert himself into their lives by using their traumatized son he treats in therapy sessions. 

Quote

Franco acknowledges and loves the fact that Elizabeth can handle herself, that she’s strong and capable, and doesn’t need someone to come in and save her. He wants to save her (as he should), but he knows he doesn’t need to.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bullshit. Yes I am saying it. Tom Baker. Dog Cage. Shock Collar. Him "rescuing" her from Seth. He made her trauma all about him...which was what Jelly wanted. He didn't let Liz handle one bit. Now he whines about not being able to help Jake, even though  Jake is being treated by an actual licensed therapist this time around.

Quote

Franco never atoned for his crimes, you say? Ummm - who ever does on GH? No one. In fact, Franco is the only one in years who’s at least ATTEMPTED to atone. So the hypocrisy is delicious here. Because those characters he’s attempted to atone to, those characters who’s fans constantly demand atonement - none of those characters have atoned for a damned thing they’ve done. And they’ve done plenty. So. Yeah. HardPass on needing Franco to atone, or be redeemed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When the fuck has he attempted to atone for anything? For Michael, for Sam (who saw right through his faux apology for letting her think he raped her), for Lulu? As bad as is Ava, she too deserved an apology for running off with Nina and Avery to Canada. He constantly whines about how people judge him for being a serial killer.  And besides Sam and Ava, what exactly should Lulu and Michael be atoning for? Post tumor, he stabbed and buried Heather (not in self defense or in defense of another), staged a mock wedding to out Carly's affair with Sonny in front of her young daughter, let a group of people think they would be killed by a bomb, and kidnapped another newborn. He also lead to Seth killing his own brother. Rapist or not, I do think Seth cared about Tom, and Franco let Seth think Tom was out stalking and raping women when in truth he had Tom locked in a cage. 

If Friz were so awesome, they wouldn't be pushing it so hard on the audience. I think Kiki is a useless waste of space,  worse than Morgan and I deeply resent the show throwing Morgan further under the bus for her when she never expressed remorse to Morgan about how she treated him when she threw him over for Michael, any remorse to Michael for her part in drugging him or how she was instrumental in driving a wedge in Michael and Morgan's relationship. However, the show doesn't sell her and Dillon nearly as hard. Or compare Friz to Brad and Lucas. I have no real problem with them, just feel that they neutered Brad so he can live in domesticated bliss with Lucas, instead of playing out a real relationship between the two of them, yet because Brad never committed a crime directly against Lucas, and his worst offense was propositioning Michael (which Michael let him off the hook too easily), not being a fucking murderer, the relationship can revisited ever couple of months without it being as much of a head scratcher as Friz. Friz has it fans, I understand why some Liz fans would want her to be paired with anyone that worships her, my feeling is I wish it wasn't such a loser with little redeeming qualities. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[Oracle42]

Edited April 8, 2017 by Oracle42

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

I wish they did have incredible chemistry. I'm a chem whore, I'd ship it. 

+1 to your whole post, but this in particular. I'm not even going to try to pretend like I haven't or wouldn't ship a toxic pairing if the chemistry was there. I have shipped many! But I don't see grand, lightening-in-a-bottle chem between BH/RoHo. Not even close. And yes chem is subjective, but still. He's so dirty! And not in a hot way!

Also, great post that I completely agree with from @Ambrosefolly. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Bringonthedrama]

9 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

let a group of people they would be killed in a bomb, and kidnapped another newborn. 

z. Friz has it fans, I understand why some Liz finds would want her to be paired with anyone that worships her, my feeling is I wish it wasn't such a loser with little redeeming qualities. 

I haven't watched much recently (can't stand to see Liz with this individual). What happened, with a bomb???! As for kidnapping another newborn, do you mean when he and the other sick loon took off with Avery? Or yet another newborn snatching?

Since the scene between Laura and Liz where Laura mentions knowing what it's like to fall for someone with a "dark side,"  I knew TPTB would try to push this as an L&L-ish story (in this case, Liz's newborn and ex-SIL had been victimized by him, instead of Liz herself). But Laura has said many times she knew Luke, thought of him as a friend, beforehand.  Liz started out getting to know Franco because her son was emotionally and physically unwell.  Currently, she knows he's done sick things since having the tumor removed. She also flat-out said she feels alone - except for Franco's attention - when Sabrina was murdered.  She has no one. This is NOT the basis for a great love story.  She's been in an emotionally vulnerable place for quite a while now, especially after Jason found out the truth and left. Franco took advantage of that. While some Liz fans hated the dark/sleazy affair with Nikolas, this is worse. Franco makes Nik look good.  The only thing this "love story" proves, is that beyond reasonable doubt, Liz needs serious therapy.

[Ambrosefolly]

11 minutes ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I haven't watched much recently (can't stand to see Liz with this individual). What happened, with a bomb???! As for kidnapping another newborn, do you mean when he and the other sick loon took off with Avery? Or yet another newborn snatching?

 

 

Avery. It happened post tumor. The bomb thing happened after Carly and Franco aborted wedding. There was no actual bomb.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Ambrosefolly

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

RoHo and BH are decent scene partners with okay (at most) chemistry.

I agree, and I'll give BH, at least, commitment to the story. RoHo isn't quite tanking it, but he's often very flip in a way that undercuts what BH is doing. It's a gross thing to do to a scene partner.

[HeatLifer]

I see absolutely no real chemistry between RH and BH. Completely forgettable pair in the big picture of soap pairings. I see two actors trying, so I'll give them that.

Edited April 8, 2017 by HeatLifer

[dubbel zout]

This might go better in the UO thread, but never mind: I don't hate Lauren/Dillon. I think HE and RPW have some nice chemistry, and the biggest problem is the characters have no story whatsoever, but what couple on this fakakta show does?

I shouldn't be, but I'm continually amazed at how much nothing goes on every day. It's not just that stories are treading water, but we get weird stuff like Amy 2.0 parachuted into a story that's nonexistent in the first place.