How To Speculate w/o Spoilers: Hiding the Ball

[Keepitmoving]

38 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I didn't see the promo. But from what you describe, maybe she's getting a D&C?

I did read and interview with the actor who plays Frank, and he said that we would know what direction they were going in with the pregnancy by the end of the finale. He also said and I am paraphrasing that it's beyond  shocking  as to who murdered Wes. The word I remember is "beyond." That's all he could give in the way of spoilers, but he said beyond so...that doesn't sound like Connor to me, because that's not beyond anything, the guy actually threatened to do just that. I mean we did actually see him threaten Wes, so if he carried it through it surely wouldn't be beyond shocking.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Keepitmoving]

post deleted

Edited February 22, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Tiger]

8 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

In the promo, I think Laurel is back in the hospital.  It looks like she's in a bed/chair, it's not Bonnie's apartment. It looks like she's wearing a hospital gown and it's not the same color as the one she had on when she was in the hospital after the fire. Because the first time I watched it I thought that was just the shot of her when she was sitting up in the hospital bed after the fire, until I looked at the pattern of the gown  she was wearing and saw how colorful it looked. That doesn't look like  a t-shirt to me, especially with the blue trim going around the top. I can't get a screen shot of it, but I slowed down the promo when I noticed it. I was like where is she? And what does she have on? That is not how she usually dresses, and is that even a top?

Could she in a psych ward?

It would fit with the narrative/speculation that she doesnt remember killing Wes.  Maybe when Annalise and Connor talk, they peice things together and figure out Laural did it?

[Keepitmoving]

19 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Could she in a psych ward?

It would fit with the narrative/speculation that she doesnt remember killing Wes.  Maybe when Annalise and Connor talk, they peice things together and figure out Laural did it?

Maybe

All I know right now is that there's a new sneak peek out and all I have to say is, Connor is fine, LOL. Just the way he walks up to Michaela and Asher, suave as can be, fine. No way did he kill Wes, LOL.

Edited February 22, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[possibilities]

For me, the most shocking would be: Annalise, Michaela, or Oliver as the killer.

Or Nate, I guess, because he's so bland and he's been acting certainly quite clueless all season.

The show probably thinks Meggy, Laurel, or Atwood would be the most shocking.

[Milaxx]

Or shocking could be Bonnie. What if she yet again thinks she's protecting AK and thinks having Wes around is more trouble than it's worth. I haven't seen the promos yet let me go find them. I'm leaning more towards Mahoney's than anything, but who knows with this show.

[colorbars]

2 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Or shocking could be Bonnie. What if she yet again thinks she's protecting AK and thinks having Wes around is more trouble than it's worth. I haven't seen the promos yet let me go find them. I'm leaning more towards Mahoney's than anything, but who knows with this show.

I don't think Bonnie would be shocking at all, let alone "beyond" shocking. We already know she'll kill for Annalise, we've seen it. She was already the answer to a Who Killed [X]? plot. Plus, she's always shady and desperate. So I definitely don't think she'd be shocking at all, she was one of the first people I saw people speculating after the midseason finale.

I think like above, the only people that would really be shocking to the general audience would be Annalise, Oliver or Michaela. Though I think Laurel would probably be pretty shocking to the general audience too, though not so much for people that speculate online.

Edited February 23, 2017 by colorbars

[Milaxx]

I wonder if we are being set up to believe it's Oliver. I think the show will never go as far as to have AK actually murder someone. She will always remain murder adjacent like with  the Rose, Sam and Sinclair deaths.

[Keepitmoving]

Laurel and Annalise are the only ones who would be shocking to me, since they cared the most about him IMO. If Oliver did it, I wouldn't be shocked, but the boy would he be  a sicko. I mean, he rolled up at Anna's house crying and everything over all the chaos. That's some good acting if he was cold blooded killer. It's not him, I don't buy for one minute that Nowalk is going to make Coliver the killers. I think he was even faking us out and trying to make it look like Coliver were devious partners, when during Asher's failed toast to Wes, Coliver made that self-centered toast of one another I believe it was "to us" that came off to me as, fuck Wes, and all the rest of you, Oliver and me are going to fine. LOL, I'm sorry, that's how it came off to me and it seemed like the writers again, were throwing out red herrings and making me side eye Coliver as the murderers. But I wasn't buying it because that coupling is Nowalk's baby.

Edited February 23, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[headhoncho]

something that has been bothering me for quite awhile and I may have missed something - when Wes was negotiating his deal and saying that he would tell them everything they wanted to know "about her" - I don't ever remember them actually mentioning AK's name - could there be another "her" that he was going to rat out, and it isn't AK at all?  Like maybe Laurel?  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree kinda thing?  (her dad's a bad guy)

Which would give her a motive for killing Wes

[colorbars]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Laurel and Annalise are the only ones who would be shocking to me, since they cared the most about him IMO. If Oliver did it, I wouldn't be shocked, but the boy would he be  a sicko. I mean, he rolled up at Anna's house crying and everything over all the chaos. That's some good acting if he was cold blooded killer. It's not him, I don't buy for one minute that Nowalk is going to make Coliver the killers. I think he was even faking us out and trying to make it look like Coliver were devious partners, when during Asher's failed toast to Wes, Coliver made that self-centered toast of one another I believe it was "to us" that came off to me as, fuck Wes, and all the rest of you, Oliver and me are going to fine. LOL, I'm sorry, that's how it came off to me and it seemed like the writers again, were throwing out red herrings and making me side eye Coliver as the murderers. But I wasn't buying it because that coupling is Nowalk's baby.

I mean, they DID have that convo with Connor and Oliver after Oliver lied to the police, where Connor said he was realizing how good of a liar Oliver is.

[Neurochick]

 I think it's Oliver.

[Aquarius97]

2) Who killed Wallace Mahoney?

Frank admitted to Wes in the car's flashback that he killed Wallace (He said sth like "I killed your father, not Rebecca")

[Milaxx]

All of these questions have been asked, answered and discussed to death in the episode threads.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

interview with the actor who plays Frank, and he said that we would know what direction they were going in with the pregnancy by the end of the finale.

So, are we to assume that since they turned her constant morning sickness into a running joke, that means she's going ahead with the pregnancy? And I know it's anathema (for some) to say this here but I'm still not convinced that's Wes' baby.

[Milaxx]

20 hours ago, iheartET said:

1) Why was Ana calling the K5 to her house?

2) Who killed Wallace Mahoney?

3) How did Laurel’s dad know about her and Wes? Why did Laurel’s dad want Wes dead?

4) Was Wallace Mahoney really responsible for Ana’s accident that killed her baby?

1. They were going to talk about Atwood going after them. That's why she met with Oliver first. She wanted him to hack her records and find out what her plan was.

2. Frank shot him in last season's finale.

3. Her dad monitors her actions. He has a huge telecommunications company with government contracts. We won't know why he wanted Wes dead until next season. 

4. Possibly. We all assumed it was Wallace since he hired AK and threatened her. However now that we know Charles is Wes's bio dad,  it's possible that it was Charles. The woman who gave Frank the suitcase full of money to bug AK's hotel room was the same person who was giving Charles and alibi for Wallace Mahoney's shooting.

[Milaxx]

I assume you mean Wes. We aren't given an exact time as how much time lapsed between Frank dropping Wes off and Wallace getting shot, but Frank admitted he shot Wallace and he had the weapon used to kill Wallace. That's how he was able to frame Charles for the shooting. He still had the gun.

I don't think Charles tried to kill Ana. I speculated that he may be working with Laurel's dad and DA Denver to try and destroy her career. That may just be a matter of bad blood fro years ago. Or it may be as a favor to Denver since he clearly wants to bring her down.

[Keepitmoving]

All I know is that Alfred Enoch was on the red carpet at the Essence award show supporting Aja and he's so over it. I was like damn, he doesn't care LOL. To the point that he said maybe now that Wes is dead it'll give them a chance to do more for Aja's character. I was like boy, I could hug you, from your lips...cause all I'm seeing is one article after another about the Castillos for next season . Then a little comment about Bonnie. I wonder if she'll get the three episode treatment that Michaela got when it came to her back story (eye roll). Let's make that half an episode if that much considering the lack in the length of screen time that she had in scenes with her mother. Bonnie will probably get the same treatment all to conserve screen time for the Castillos to be running all around the place.

Then Nowalk says something like he's not sure whether some of them will still be interested in law school after all of this and Anna not being able to go back and teach at Middleton. That did get me to thinking, about why each of them decided to go to law school in the first place. Michaela was pre-med before, wonder why she changed.  Asher, was literally trying to be just  chip off the old block, so I'm not even sure he really likes it. He definitely was shaking and stuttering all over the place when he got his turn at bat in the courtroom. Laurel...running from her dad? That might be her reason for doing anything, just to get away from him. But this would really interest me so I know there's no point in paying any attention to Nowalk throwing this out there. 

The little details on what happened to Wes annoy me, and I'm not invested enough to be bothered with the stupidity. Like how in the hell did Dominic know that Wes would show up at Anna's that night?  Even if they bugged the hones, and heard Anna inviting him over, that didn't mean that Wes was guaranteed to show up? Clearly Dominic was in the house when Wes got there, hiding in the office, so he's in there waiting, waiting for Wes? Really? It would have made more sense if he was waiting for Wes in his apt..where he lived. But Nowalk couldn't do that because he wanted to center some of the mystery around Connor and probably couldn't think of a way to get Connor to Wes's apt.. He needed to cast suspicion on Anna summoning them to her house only not to show up herself, which next season we probably still won't get an answer for why she did that.  Most importantly, he probably wanted to have a reason to remodel Anna's dark ass house, LOL. Anyway, just annoying and not looking forward to it because in Shondaland shit is rarely cleared up  and my intelligence continues to be insulted. They just aren't good with details, never have been on any of the Shondaland shows.

Edited March 6, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[helenamonster]

It was mentioned in season one that Laurel decided to go to law school to be a champion of the underdog. In the season one Christmas episode, her very very rich family can't comprehend why she'd spend her time doing so much hard work when she could live off their money for the rest of her life, not have to do a day of work, and be very comfortable. Laurel was determined to make her own way in the world, and help people as she did so.

God, remember when Laurel was just a wide-eyed wallflower idealist? What a year and a half these people have had.

[Layne]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 5:01 PM, Milaxx said:

but Frank admitted he shot Wallace

Frank also admitted to killing Wes.

[Layne]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

But Nowalk couldn't do that because he wanted to center some of the mystery around Connor and probably couldn't think of a way to get Connor to Wes's apt.

Nowalk couldn't do that because he used Annalise's house fire and a body inside as his starting point, and only decided on the victim, cause of death, killer and other events (e.g. Connor's involvement) from that night much later in the writing process. It was an incredibly stupid starting point and very poor story planning.

[Milaxx]

On 3/5/2017 at 11:42 PM, Keepitmoving said:

All I know is that Alfred Enoch was on the red carpet at the Essence award show supporting Aja and he's so over it. I was like damn, he doesn't care LOL. To the point that he said maybe now that Wes is dead it'll give them a chance to do more for Aja's character. I was like boy, I could hug you, from your lips...cause all I'm seeing is one article after another about the Castillos for next season . Then a little comment about Bonnie. I wonder if she'll get the three episode treatment that Michaela got when it came to her back story (eye roll). Let's make that half an episode if that much considering the lack in the length of screen time that she had in scenes with her mother. Bonnie will probably get the same treatment all to conserve screen time for the Castillos to be running all around the place.

Then Nowalk says something like he's not sure whether some of them will still be interested in law school after all of this and Anna not being able to go back and teach at Middleton. That did get me to thinking, about why each of them decided to go to law school in the first place. Michaela was pre-med before, wonder why she changed.  Asher, was literally trying to be just  chip off the old block, so I'm not even sure he really likes it. He definitely was shaking and stuttering all over the place when he got his turn at bat in the courtroom. Laurel...running from her dad? That might be her reason for doing anything, just to get away from him. But this would really interest me so I know there's no point in paying any attention to Nowalk throwing this out there. 

The little details on what happened to Wes annoy me, and I'm not invested enough to be bothered with the stupidity. Like how in the hell did Dominic know that Wes would show up at Anna's that night?  Even if they bugged the hones, and heard Anna inviting him over, that didn't mean that Wes was guaranteed to show up? Clearly Dominic was in the house when Wes got there, hiding in the office, so he's in there waiting, waiting for Wes? Really? It would have made more sense if he was waiting for Wes in his apt..where he lived. But Nowalk couldn't do that because he wanted to center some of the mystery around Connor and probably couldn't think of a way to get Connor to Wes's apt.. He needed to cast suspicion on Anna summoning them to her house only not to show up herself, which next season we probably still won't get an answer for why she did that.  Most importantly, he probably wanted to have a reason to remodel Anna's dark ass house, LOL. Anyway, just annoying and not looking forward to it because in Shondaland shit is rarely cleared up  and my intelligence continues to be insulted. They just aren't good with details, never have been on any of the Shondaland shows.

I found it very charming that so many of Aja's HTGAWM costars showed up to support her getting this reward. From their social media pages it's clear this is a show where the actors not only get along but seem to genuinely like each other. I like seeing that happen on shows. I think it lends itself to better chemistry on screen. 

As for the upcoming season, I see it being a very Castillo heavy season. In large part because of the whole why was Wes killed. I suspect Jorge (Papa Castillo) has been keeping tabs on Laurel's whereabouts from day 1 through various means, including having Dominic tail her at times. Dominic appears to be Jorge's heanchman. He does the dirty work like meeting with folks like Denver for payoffs and such.  I don't think her running into Dominic in NYC was accidental at all. I suspect he knew Laurel wanted to kill Charles and basically cockblocked her attempt with the fake run in. I suspect Dominic knew Wes was at AK's because he'd likely been following him since he left the police station.  He waited until after Nate left before he grabbed Wes and killed him. Then dragged him to the basement and cut the gas line to frame AK. If that's so then Jorge is a lot more lethal than I suspected because if Dominic st there long enough to see Connor running out and the house exploding, I would think he would also have seen Laurel go into the house. Then again, Jorge not only refused to pay Laurel's ransom but had her deny it happened and then provided proof of that denial to Denver. If that's the case then Laurel wasn't exaggerating  when she said her father is a bad man. I'm also in the camp that thinks there is a Mahoney/Castillo collaboration to destroy AK's career. I think killing Wes only entered the picture after Frank killed Wallace. Being able to frame AK just made it a twofer.

I do take issue with Nowalk saying the show could move away from AK teaching. The K4 are still law students and unless AK is somehow still tied to the university, the show falls apart. Let Hargrove somehow get the board to reinstate the clinic. I also don't want a Waurel offspring.  I don't care what plot device is used, I'm not interested in an infant on this show. 

On 3/6/2017 at 1:49 AM, Layne said:

Frank also admitted to killing Wes.

Look at the context. We saw Frank take Wes to NYC and Frank had the gun that was used to kill Wallace which he used to try and frame Charles. On the other hand Frank only came forward and admitted to killing Wes because he was trying to get AK out of jail. He only admitted to killing Wes in order to take the fall for her. As we've seen he didn't kill Wes.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

I do take issue with Nowalk saying the show could move away from AK teaching. The K4 are still law students and unless AK is somehow still tied to the university, the show falls apart.

See it doesn't fall apart for me because all I keep craving is backstory right now, and not cases and I'm not getting enough of that so the show is starting to frustrate me.

If they spend most of the next season which is pretty much half the episodes of your average season drama on network tv with this shows fifteen episodes, out of the classroom, I'm fine with it. So much has gone down and so much needs to be sorted out. There will probably be another murder or two once stuff starts being solved as to why Wes was murdered...so if Nowalk  has any talent, I won't miss any of them not being in the classroom.   I'm interested in characters backstories, even though I'm not looking forward to the Castillos eating up my screen, because it sounds like Nowalk is ONLY dedicating time to them, while throwing Bonnie crumbs on the side, we'll see.  I am interested in Laurel's mother, for all she knows her father had the mother killed. She's supposed to be in a home/hospital right? She's mentally ill, and the father had her committed right? Or did he? We know that Laurel didn't think she was that good of a mother when she told Michaela that, she thought Michaela was better at mothering her that her own mother. I would actually like to see her mother since she's not suppose to be dead, she's just in a hospital somewhere. Also it seems like she was skilled enough to disappear and there was a time when her father couldn't find her. So where was she? It seems like he was able to locate her just when she started law school. Because there is  scene where he does tell her not to disappear on him again. What is his problem? Why is he always trying to tie her down? Is she promised to marry some guy from some other powerful family, and I don't mean the Mahoney's? Is that why he had to kill off her boyfriend?  So,way back when, he had her kidnapped right?

At any rate, I need Nowalk to share the wealth.  So once again the imbalance is nothing for me to look forward to. But it sill wouldn't seem off to me to spend at the very least the first 8 to 10 episodes with them being out of the classroom/clinic. Maybe by the end of season four, I could see Anna and that gang going back to some usual routine that looks normal, Anna getting her job back. But seriously, it would make total sense to me that she might not want to even fight to continue working at that university especially if that president is still in charge. 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Quote

I do take issue with Nowalk saying the show could move away from AK teaching. The K4 are still law students and unless AK is somehow still tied to the university, the show falls apart.

See it doesn't fall apart for me because all I keep craving is backstory right now, and not cases and I'm not getting enough of that so the show is starting to frustrate me.

They probably spent half this season away from the classroom. I didn't mind that. I don't even mind the scenarios you've mentioned. I just think they need to have some sort of to to the university. I actually like the clinic set up. I don't need a case of the week though. Besides if AK is no longer teaching, what ties the K4 to her. They can go back to being students as long as they keep their mouths shut. The clinic also ties Oliver to the K4 and AK. 

Micheal also being pre-med fits in perfectly with her type A personality. I worked in hospitals for many years. There are a surprising number of interns that do both pre-Law and pre-med and only decide when it's time to make a choice between law school and residency.

As for Laurel and her dad. I took it to be that she hadn't spoken to him since that Christmas break we saw in season 1.  This season we saw that Jorge was still keeping tabs on her because he knew she was dating Frank and had been trying to contact him.

Pretty sure Laurel's mom is still alive. In ep 3x1 we learned Laurel went to Mexico to visit her for the summer.

Things I could see happening in season 4:

Lots of Castillo drama. Perhaps even a glimpse of mama Castillo.  I also wonder if the Castillo drama will involve Mahoney drama because I suspect some collusion between the Mahoney men and Jorge Castillo.

Hopefully AK in a new house. I'm not feeling her and Bonnie as roomies. Lets get AK into a new house or condo. Something modern and sleek. 

More of AK working on her sobriety. I'd love a new look where she wears her natural hair instead of the weaves and wigs, but I don't see that for AK.

Michaela & Asher move in together maybe. Although if he's no longer working as an RA that means Asher either gets a job or his mother releases tuition funds. The good thing about Masher is you get heart to heart convos that at least give us a glimpse into Michaela's childhood.  I know that feels like crumbs but unless I hear that Brett Butler is coming back, my guess is that's all we'll get.

There's going to be a silly subplot of the Connor/Oliver engagement. I can't even guess which direction this will go in. It will either be Connor going along with it and getting cold feet at the last minute and leaving Oliver at the alter, or Connor cheating on Oliver.  Again if I was writing this, I'd have Connor in therapy and they jointly decide that they aren't ready for marriage. Crumbs I'll settle for; Oliver meeting Connor's family. Actually seeing any of Oliver's family.

Frank no longer pretending to be an assistant. He'll be a full time thug now. Nate will continue to be AK's lapdog and part time "maintenance man." Bonnie will continue to be ride or die. I wouldn't mind her and Frank becoming a couple. 

We'll get the annual Mama visit from Cecily Tyson. She'll be in the nursing home so it'll be heartbreaking but good.

Denver will continue to be around, and we'll get a replacement for Atwood, perhaps a man this time.

Scheduling permitting we may get a Wes flashback or two.

We'll probably see Simon. Meggy and perhaps even Thomas again. I could live without Meggy & Thomas, but I kind of like thorn in the side Simon.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Is that why he had to kill off her boyfriend?  So,way back when, he had her kidnapped right?

I have a *really* crazy theory half baked about why he killed Wes. I don't think Jorge had Laurel kidnapped. I honestly believe she was kidnapped. It's a surprisingly common occurrence in Mexico. So I believe Laurel's version of that. I think Wes being killed had to do with Charles Mahoney. What if Rose wasn't raped by young Charles? What if they thought they were in love, then Rose got pregnant. Wallace wants to squash the relationship but Sylvia convinces him to bring her to the US and give her job. Charles can never see Rose again and Charles begins to resent the child that broke up his youthful romance. Wallace threatens Rose that he will harm Christophe if she sees Charles again. Of course this all kind of falls apart with Rose killing herself rather than testify.

However I get the feeling that Wallace/Charles and Jorge had some sort of deal going on together. I would even guess that Wallace was talking to Jorge when Frank shot him. In order to keep the deal going or because killing Wallace kind of messed up their plans, Jorge kills Wes, or Charles asked his business partner Jorge to kill Wes as pay back for framing him for Wallace's murder. Whatever the reason, I don't think Jorge would have had killed Wes if Frank hadn't killed Wallace.

[jvr]

That is a really crazy theory lol. What do you think is the likelihood of it happening? I really haven't given much thought to what might happen next season because I still don't understand what happened this season lol. I do like the idea that the Mexico kidnapping that we have heard about a few times will play into this somehow...I don't know how though.

[Layne]

On March 10, 2017 at 0:46 PM, Keepitmoving said:

I am interested in Laurel's mother, for all she knows her father had the mother killed. She's supposed to be in a home/hospital right? She's mentally ill, and the father had her committed right? Or did he? We know that Laurel didn't think she was that good of a mother when she told Michaela that, she thought Michaela was better at mothering her that her own mother. I would actually like to see her mother since she's not suppose to be dead, she's just in a hospital somewhere. Also it seems like she was skilled enough to disappear and there was a time when her father couldn't find her. So where was she? It seems like he was able to locate her just when she started law school. Because there is  scene where he does tell her not to disappear on him again. What is his problem? Why is he always trying to tie her down? Is she promised to marry some guy from some other powerful family, and I don't mean the Mahoney's? Is that why he had to kill off her boyfriend?  So,way back when, he had her kidnapped right?

Her mother is definitely alive. Laurel just spent the Summer with her in Mexico. 

And she had Christmas dinner with her father and family in Season 1 and it didn't seem like she'd been out of touch with him prior to that. I believe she "disappeared" on her father at the beginning of 2015, several months into her first year of law school. I don't see how she could have "disappeared" though since her father was bankrolling her tuition, rent, phone bill, flights to Ohio, etc. And since she spent the Summer in Mexico with her mother it's not like she completely shut out the whole family. That seemed dumb for him to say that she "disappeared" on him. 

And I don't think *he* had her kidnapped. She was kidnapped by people in Mexico and her father (in Florida) didn't pay the ransom because the government wouldn't let him. The US government does not allow American citizens to pay ransom in those kinds of situations, so it actually makes sense. Idk how she got away from her kidnappers though or how signing something that said she'd never been kidnapped would protect her father. 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Layne
spelling

[jvr]

5 minutes ago, Layne said:

The US government does not allow American citizens to pay ransom in those kinds of situations, so it actually makes sense. Idk how she got away from her kidnappers though or how signing something that said she'd never been kidnapped would protect her father. 

I don't feel like googling to make sure but this is wrong I believe. The US government does not pay ransoms...private citizens can pay any ransom they want...but I'm sure they would be advised not to by lawyers and law enforcement because there is no guarantee once you give them the money that they will do what they said they were going to do. So her father could have paid the ransom, why he didn't, we don't know. I can only think that signing the form made this whole thing stay quiet, which means that her father is involved in something he shouldn't be, or needs to keep a low profile?

Edited March 11, 2017 by jvr

[Layne]

2 minutes ago, jvr said:

I don't feel like googling to make sure but this is wrong I believe. The US government does not pay ransoms...private citizens can pay any ransom they want...but I'm sure they would be advised not to by lawyers and law enforcement because there is no guarantee once you give them the money that they will do what they said they were going to do. So, her father could have paid the ransom, why he didn't, we don't know. 

Idk, that's what Karla said somewhere. I think it was on a podcast. 

[jvr]

17 minutes ago, Layne said:

Idk, that's what Karla said somewhere. I think it was on a podcast. 

Ok, time to google! Hmmm....regarding terrorist groups things can get sketchy and the US does (or did) keep (threaten, pressure) families from paying ransoms. As long as you weren't seen to be funding terrorist groups in the exchange it was always fine but they strongly urged private companies and citizens to not pay the money. Obama cleared the way for private citizens to pay ransoms to terrorist organizations without fear of prosecution in 2015. I'd have to go down a deep whole to find an instance of a family actually being prosecuted though. Even the US's policy of not paying ransoms isn't written in any laws and has happened from time to time throughout history. Man, looking that up could have ruined my Saturday, I could have been reading for hours but I kept it very high level...no wikipedia blackhole!

Have we gotten any info on who actually kidnapped Laurel? Was it an enemy of her family or some established terrorist group in Mexico? I thought it was just like a money grab, taking someone who comes from a family with money, not something that could be seen as political (terrorism).

Edited March 11, 2017 by jvr

[Keepitmoving]

16 hours ago, Milaxx said:

 

Michaela & Asher move in together maybe. Although if he's no longer working as an RA that means Asher either gets a job or his mother releases tuition funds. The good thing about Masher is you get heart to heart convos that at least give us a glimpse into Michaela's childhood.  I know that feels like crumbs but unless I hear that Brett Butler is coming back, my guess is that's all we'll get.

I'm not sure they need Brett Butler to expand on what Michaela had to do to survive. Because those were the words that Aja used in an interview when speaking on Michaela's backstory "things she had to do..."  

That scene with Mahoney was about her not Laurel's plan IMO. And of course the interaction with him has something to do with her realizing that she thinks she loves Asher. I'm just not sure, nor is Asher exactly how/why that interaction with Mahoney triggered that realization. As thrilled as he was to hear it, he was like, where is this coming from? They had him ask her how does she know and they purposely left the question unanswered by having Lauerl's annoying ass whip out that gun in that moment. So I'm thinking it'll be answered next season with some more of that back story.

Speaking of Mahoney I don't think he raped Rose. But then maybe he did if we found out he had anything to do with getting his flesh and blood killed. I mean it's one thing not to claim the kid but he knew that was his son...I don't know, I think Mrs. Mahoney is on the up and up when she told Anna that she doesn't have the whole picture so to speak.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Happytobehere]

On 3/6/2017 at 1:49 AM, Layne said:

Frank also admitted to killing Wes.

I'm with your on this.  I didn't think Frank killed Mahoney when it happened and the confession never rang true to me.  The closest I came was when he said it to Wes in the car as a means of proving he didn't kill Rebecca.  However, if Im not mistaken, Frank had the gun that was used to kill Mahoney -- he had it when he framed the son, although, that too can be reasonably explained away if you assume Frank knows who actually did it.  But if the show ever chooses to revisit this, I would not be surprised if it was evealed that Frank didn't do it, but with Wes gone, I dont know what would prompt the show to revisit this topic.

[possibilities]

I believed Frank killed Mahoney. But if he didn't, then I think he would confess to protect Bonnie.

[Milaxx]

On 3/11/2017 at 4:28 PM, Keepitmoving said:

Speaking of Mahoney I don't think he raped Rose. But then maybe he did if we found out he had anything to do with getting his flesh and blood killed. I mean it's one thing not to claim the kid but he knew that was his son...I don't know, I think Mrs. Mahoney is on the up and up when she told Anna that she doesn't have the whole picture so to speak.

More and more I'm leaning to Charles not raping Rose.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Wallace killed the girlfriend that Charles was on trial for in the first place.  Ultimately I think Wallace will end up being the big bad and in cahoot with Jorge Castillo.

As for Micheala, yeah we could get more backstory without Brett. All it would take is another heart to heart with Asher to allow for more exposition. I just like Brett Butler.

[Keepitmoving]

12 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

More and more I'm leaning to Charles not raping Rose.  In fact I wouldn't be surprised if Wallace killed the girlfriend that Charles was on trial for in the first place.  Ultimately I think Wallace will end up being the big bad and in cahoot with Jorge Castillo.

As for Micheala, yeah we could get more backstory without Brett. All it would take is another heart to heart with Asher to allow for more exposition. I just like Brett Butler.

Yeah, I like Brett Butler too. 

I  did find it genuine when Wallace Mahoney responded to Wes right before he got shot, with total disbelief. Or rather, he looked at him and responded to him as if he had no idea of who he was talking about. Not even well I'm not your father, but you are my grandson, there was no sly look to his response to Wes. It truthfully looked like a who in the hell are you looks, I have no idea what you're talking about.  I don't even remember, have I ever seen you?  As if he had no idea that he had a illegitimate grandson. I bought his reaction, and that's when I really thought that it was Mrs. Mahoney pulling the strings and not him where Wes and his mother were concerned. She figured it out first based on that flashback of her, Charles, little Wes and his mother and I don't think she ever clued Wallace in on it.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

1 minute ago, Keepitmoving said:

Yeah, I like Brett Butler too. 

I  did find it genuine when Wallace Mahoney responded to Wes right before he got shot, with totally disbelief. Or rather, he looked at him and responded to him as if he had no idea of what he was talking about. As if he had no idea that he had a illegitimate grandson. I bought his reaction, and that's when I really thought that it was Mrs. Mahoney pulling the strings and not him where Wes and his mother were concerned. She figured it out first based on that flashback of her, Charles, little Wes and his mother and I don't think she ever clued Wallace in on it.

Now that would be an interesting twist. I like.

[Keepitmoving]

Also, Laurel's father may run a tech. company, and not be a stereotypical mobster, but what kind of man has a young man, who comes from nothing killed? What kind of deal could he have with the Mahoney's that would include killing a young man who has no power. He doesn't have to be in the mob to be as horrific as a mobster for having Wes killed the way he did, since the actress was set on not portraying that stereotype.Unless we find out that Wes was more sinister than we thought....WTF? I mean we saw the flashback, he's on the phone with the hitman, he  wanted Wes dead, unless we're back to him really wanting Frank dead. But he and his hitman can't be portrayed to be that stupid to have killed the wrong mark, no that can't be. He meant to kill Wes. I mean why should he care about Mrs. Mahoney trying to avoid a huge payout to her grandson, or would Wes be entitled to any payout? He's not a minor so his father doesn't have to acknowledge him at this point much less pay up does he? So why would she need to have him killed via Laurel's father and what does Laurel's father get out of it? You mean to tell me a powerful man like him can't figure out other ways to control his daughter and who she sees/marries etc. without killing her boyfriends? The more I think about it, the more I'm already over this story line, unless  Wes was more sinister that we thought, that's about the only thing that would make it interesting at this point.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

  ON 3/11/2017 AT 2:59 PM, ARKISTICMOCKERY SAID:

After seeing this episode three times and binge watching the complete series from season 1, I now see the light with the weight of this episode. There is more to it than just Laurel dating Wes. So now I'm guessing their unborn child is a key to keep everything connected. (So, yeah I guess you don't have to worry about Laurel getting an abortion or anything. That baby is the heir to a very complicated empire filled with consipiracies!! And it's F***ng awesome! Now let me help you all see what I'am seeing.

Season 1
Michaela, Connor and Asher, it makes sense for them to be part of the Keating 5. It's sort of expected. Wes is somewhat a given but if you look at it in a realistic way, there's a reason why Annaliese picked him (and that has become apparent over the course of three seasons). Not the mystery has always been Laurel. Hints about how awful her family is, and her father, whatever history it is, they've been dopping crumbles all over the place. The question why Keating picked Laurel, as posed by Bonnie, was initially painted as because of Frank. But then again, apparently Frank and Annaliese knew more about her and her background.
* As far as we know they were all chosen for specific reasons. Asher because of his father. Laurel because of her father, Wes because he was really Christophe, Micheala because she reminds AK of her self. So far the only variable is is Connor. Even then it's been established that both are really good students so that may have played in their being chosen
Season 2
More about Wes' backstory. Enters the Mahoneys and how their drama is connected to Annaliese and Sam's family troubles. And we all know about how Wes' mom killed herself in front of Annaliese that also cost her her baby. Now let's look back at something we sorta ignored because of all the happenings inside the Keating house, The Mahoney case! Charles was acccused of killing a key witness to a case against their empire. Embezzlements and whatnot. Rose (Wes' mom apparently lied to Annaliese) and did not testify.

*Charles was accused of killing his girlfriend.  Rose was supposed to provide the alibi that he was in the office at the time of her death.

Now back on Laurel, still many ignored here charecter (not me though, she's my favorite and those crumbles they've been dropping about her family, I try to pick them up) Apparently she's super loaded and her dad seems to be more powerful and connected than Asher's father. And she'd gone through worse than dumping her professor's husband's body. Now here's a key detail that most of us failed to recognize and must've sparked the fire. Wes and Laurel flew to Ohio to research on the Mahoney USING PAPA CASTILLO'S CREDIT CARD!!!
 * We found out Laurel was rich in season 1 when she went home for Christmas.
Season 3
Now we've seen more of Laurel and Wes and their secrets. The two of them. Wes and Annaliese. Annaliese and Laurel. As clear as day, while everyone else is seating at the kitty table, Laurel isn't. She's seated at the bigger table with the bosses. And yeah, welcome Papa Castillo! Here's a little show of how much connection he has. So since we all got to this episode, I assume we've we've all seen the rest of the show. Now let's make the connection.

Apparenlty, the story we've been seeing seems to be nothing compared to what is actually behind the curtain. Here's me Theory and Questions.

1.) Annaliese is in fact just a pawn. The major players are the Mahoneys and the Castillos. Making Wes and Laurel more than part of the Keating 5.

2.) The Mahoney case from ten years ago was just a portion of a bigger case. The whole embezzlement and laundering case most probably is the bigger story connecting the Mahoneys and Mr. Castillo.

So let's look at the Mahoneys and the questions so far:
3.) Who killed Vicky? Was it really Charles? And why?
4.) What did Vicky knew about the Mahoneys? Why is she a key witness to the Mahoneys' Money laundering or embezzlement case?
5.) What did Rose Edison knew about the Mahoneys? Where was she when Vicky died?
6.) Did the Mahoneys caused Annaliese's car accident?
7.) Did Sylvia Mahoney reached out to Wes? What does she mean when she said "You don't know anything" to Annaliese?
8.) Who was Wallace Mahoney talking to on the phone before he got killed in front of Wes? What did he mean by "... this thing we are dealing with..."?
9.) How did Charles Mahoney got out of prison from his first murder case? When did that case ended? Now that case is far beyond my imagination but I think we are heading that way for Season 4.
*(4)What embezzlement/money laundering case? (3) We don't know for sure. Could have been Charles, my guess is it was Wallace.  (5)Rose was in the office doing her job as cleaning lady when Charles girlfriend was killed. I do agree that at the very least Wallace and Jorge appear to be in cahoots. (6)Yes the Mahoney's caused the car accident. They had Frank bug AK's room. Frank met with the same woman who later came forward as Charles's alibi after Frank framed him for Wallace's death.  So they knew AK was going to the police and had her car T boned.  (7)My guess is that Wallace was actually on the phone with Jorge when Wes stopped him before Frank shot him. (8)IIRC the first murder case was declared a mistrial, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
Let's connect how this old case matters.

10.) When Wes and Laurel decided to go to Ohio using her dad's credit card, waved a red flag to Mr.Castillo. Naturally, he followed their tracks. Discovered that they were looking into the Mahoney case. Then came Frank killing Mahoney forcing Wes to be a witness in his case and Sylvia Mahoney conducting a DNA test. Now on paper it shows that Wes is a Mahoney. Ding ding, Mr.Castillo discovered it. And in that search Wes and Laurel ended up with boxes of records. There must be something in those records that bridges the path from Mr.Castillo to Wes.

*Laurel's dad has always keep tabs on her. Using the CC was just one way he did so. Wes didn't have to be a witness. He was told to just say he stopped and asked directions because he was lost. Wes decided on his own to implicate Charles. What box of records? The only time Wes & Laurel went through boxes was in season 2 when they went to Ohio to look into Rose's death. That was before Frank killed Wallace.

11.) So why did Laurel's dad put a hit in Wes and try to bring down Annaliese? I'm certain that it's not as simple as him discovering that Wes and Laurel are dating. There is a huge possibility that Jorge Castillo met in between season 2 & 3 or at the back doors of season 3.

Let me paint WES and some scenarios:
12.) Who was he talking to when he said "This is Christophe"? Sylvia Mahoney? Eve Rothlov? Jorge Castillo? Dominic? *I don't think it was any of these people. Eve would have been a  maybe but the actress is unavailable. Sylvia is more concerned with protecting Charles than Wes. It's also been proven that she's known who Christophe was since at least he was 12 and done nothing about it so why would Wes have her listed as an emergency contact? 
13.) I'm certain that Wes knew who Dominic is. (He said "Why are you doing this?" not "Who are you?") But how? What was their connection? * I read it as why are you killing me? Not that he knew hm, but why is this random person killing me?
14.) What did Wes learned about Jorge Castillo? (Flashback to Season3, Episode 3, Wes researching on Jorge Castillo) When did this happen? All the flashbacks I recall were of the rest of the K5 remembering their time with Wes.
15.) What happened during the summer between Season 2 & 3? Laurel was in Mexico, Wes was doing an internship. Apparently he was dodging her (Flashback Season 3 Episode 1, Laurel said he wasn't responding to her text messages) Did he discovered something about Jorge Castillo and the Mahoneys? Wes wasn't doing an internship. He found out he got the internship once they started 2nd year. Wes spent the summer with Meggy at her parent's cabin.
16.) Did Wes discovered something that he hid from Laurel when they were in Ohio? (Uhm, Laurel did the same to him)
17.) Did Wes conspired with Jorge Castillo against the Mahoneys? As far as we've been shown Wes has never had contact with the Mahoney's.

18.) Remember this detail, during the Mahoney case, Bonnie was still an intern but Frank, he was working on the Mahoney case with Annaliese. With his and Annaliese's skills, they must've learned who Jorge Castillo is and what he does and whatever his connection with the bigger Mahoney case is. That's why they picked Laurel. - Frank isn't a lawyer. He's an assistant to AK, back then he was little more than a glorified secretary. AK was only in Ohio for the Mahoney case. She wasn't concerned with Jorge Castillo.

19.) There is someone bigger or something else between Mr.Castillo and the Mahoneys that they are either scared or have theirs hand tied on the back. (B613 maybe, or Olivia Popr)

20.)How possible it is that Laurel was papaMahoney's leverage to either acquit Charles or get out of the money laundering case? How come papaCastillo refused to pay ransom right?

21.) And what was Rose doing the night Charles Mahoney supposedly killed that Vicky girl? Why did she lie? Was she being raped by Charles at that time?

22.) Who is Vicky? Was she related to the Castillo's? Or maybe Dominic, the new guy?

Now in my world, I see more colors on this show now that I think this last episode is BRILLIANT!
Here's what I'm sure for next season:

1 - Wes is really dead. (unless papaCastillo pulled something out of his bag, for creative purposes, I hope not)
2 - Wes is undeniably the father of Laurel's baby. Making that child a Castillo and a Mahoney. The existence of that kid means chaos so I'm certain that he will survive all this drama. So expect a little curlyhaired baby with deep dimples and peircing blue eyes in Laurel's hands come Season 4 or 5.
3 - Eve Rothlo will be back! Remember when at the hospital when Sam told Eve that Annaliese is off the case, well, where did Eve go after that? Seriously, 10 years. A smart lawyer like her, she'd done something. And I'm guessing she was hired by the Mahoneys after. * They would either have to recast or the actress would have to get permission from her current job. Since she has Blacklist: Redemption Famke is not available. Eve is loyal to AK, nt to mention in love with her. She saw the damage the Mahoney's inflicted. No way woud she turn on AK for the Mahoney's
4 - Frank and Annaliese probably have something against that they can hold on top of his head.
5 - Wes still have at least 8-10 episode flashbacks for next season. If not, they better put a tumor in Annaliese' brains and end up talking to an imaginary Wes.

So there you go. That is where my head went. From the moment Laurel speaks up that first day of school, to her using here dad's credit card to and her dad wanting Wes gone, and her seeking justice, I made up a map in my head that makes sense for a show like this.

As cruel as it is, if this is the map of the show, then cremating Wes was a necessary creative twist (though I really hate it) for Laurel to want to bring closure to his cruel life.

This is not a regular TV show so I'm betting my guess is closer than the conclusions I've been reading online. Like seriously, I don't think the writers would kill off Wes just because he was dating Laurel. Like what Annaliese said "The Quiet Ones are the most Dangerous". I wouldn't be surprised if the kill off Laurel next and leave "the child of the Quiet Ones" to Annaliese

-Now I'm excited for season 4! Bring it ON!
Never ignore every small detail on this show

PS. I'm pretty sure reading this is as confusing as watching the show, but aI have a very confusing brain so I guess I can keep up with their crazies.

[Milaxx]

38 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

Also, Laurel's father may run a tech. company, and not be a stereotypical mobster, but what kind of man has a young man, who comes from nothing killed? What kind of deal could he have with the Mahoney's that would include killing a young man who has no power. He doesn't have to be in the mob to be as horrific as a mobster for having Wes killed the way he did, since the actress was set on not portraying that stereotype.Unless we find out that Wes was more sinister than we thought....WTF? I mean we saw the flashback, he's on the phone with the hitman, he  wanted Wes dead, unless we're back to him really wanting Frank dead. But he and his hitman can't be portrayed to be that stupid to have killed the wrong mark, no that can't be. He meant to kill Wes. I mean why should he care about Mrs. Mahoney trying to avoid a huge payout to her grandson, or would Wes be entitled to any payout? He's not a minor so his father doesn't have to acknowledge him at this point much less pay up does he? So why would she need to have him killed via Laurel's father and what does Laurel's father get out of it? You mean to tell me a powerful man like him can't figure out other ways to control his daughter and who she sees/marries etc. without killing her boyfriends? The more I think about it, the more I'm already over this story line, unless  Wes was more sinister that we thought, that's about the only thing that would make it interesting at this point.

The more I think about it, the more I think it was Wallace and not Charles.  I also kinda wonder if Wallace killed Charles's girlfriend.  I don't think it had to do with inheritance, probably just vengeance. I think a case could be made for inheritance, but I don't think that's why Wallace or Jorge would have had him killed. I don't fully have a theory as to why Wallace/Jorge would want Wes killed outside of wanting to destroy AK in the process. I'm sure whatever it turns out to be will be insanely complicated.

[Keepitmoving]

2 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

The more I think about it, the more I think it was Wallace and not Charles.  I also kinda wonder if Wallace killed Charles's girlfriend.  I don't think it had to do with inheritance, probably just vengeance. I think a case could be made for inheritance, but I don't think that's why Wallace or Jorge would have had him killed. I don't fully have a theory as to why Wallace/Jorge would want Wes killed outside of wanting to destroy AK in the process. I'm sure whatever it turns out to be will be insanely complicated.

Wallace that what? What do you think he did?

Charles-I don't think Charles has any idea what the hell is going on, I don't think he knows what the big picture is just like the rest of us, LOL. He's a mama's boy. The only thing he  knew was that he fathered Wes, that flashback cleared that up for me and also made me think that maybe he didn't rape anyone and while I'm at it, maybe he didn't kill his girlfriend either. Maybe the girlfriend found out about little Christophe and she threatened Mrs. Mahoney to spill the beans and she got rid of her. But I don't think Charles is in the know about much of anything.

[Milaxx]

I think it was Wallace who wanted Wes dead, not Charles. 

I agree, Charles is not part of the bigger picture.  I rewatched the episode with the first trial and he even tries to stand up for Rose a little by saying she's just a "poor cleaning lady." I don't think he raped Rose or killed his girlfriend.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

I think it was Wallace who wanted Wes dead, not Charles.

And see, I don't think it was Wallace, because I'm not even sure he knew that Wes was his grandson and he's been dead.  So the Castillos could no longer be doing business with Wallace, they had to deal with his wife. It's just something about the way that scene played with him and Wes before he was shot.  And I find it interesting that they showed the mama Mahoney in that flashback scene as the one who clearly put it all together in that moment and Wes looked like he was about 9 years old by the time she was able to connect the dots. So I really think that papa had no idea. 

By the way, do we know what the Mahoney's do or have done to become so wealthy? It's old money/wealth I believe, but where does their wealth come from? Do we know? Maybe I missed it.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[harmfulhazards]

47 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

* They would either have to recast or the actress would have to get permission from her current job. Since she has Blacklist: Redemption Famke is not available. Eve is loyal to AK, nt to mention in love with her. She saw the damage the Mahoney's inflicted. No way woud she turn on AK for the Mahoney's

They may not have to, by the way. Blacklist: Redemption is doing horribly in ratings (to be fair, all Thursday 10PM shows look quite sad in this regard now that HTGAWM is on hiatus). They still have five more episodes to air, but so far it looks very likely that it will not have a second season unless some miracle happens. Of course it doesn't necessarily mean Famke will want to return to HTGAWM. And Pete definitely could not have counted on it when he wrote storylines for 3B. I think it is safe to assume that any long term plans, that were made at that time, don't include Eve or any other recurring character other then Castillos and Mahoneys. But, on the other hand, Pete loves to say that he doesn't plan ahead at all, so who knows.

[Milaxx]

No idea what or how the Mahoney's made their money. According to 2x12 they ran Hedge funds.

Quote

And see, I don't think it was Wallace, because I'm not even sure he knew that Wes was his grandson and he's been dead.  So the Castillos could no longer be doing business with Wallace, they had to deal with his wife. It's just something about the way that scene played with him and Wes before he was shot.  And I find it interesting that they showed the mama Mahoney in that flashback scene as the one who clearly put it all together in that moment and Wes looked like he was about 9 years old by the time she was able to connect the dots. So I really think that papa had no idea. 

I didn't read it as him not knowing but rather surprise. I think Wallace did know of Wes existence. I don't buy Sylvia as the innocent grandma or afluenza mom protecting Charles. I think Sylvia was just as complicit as Wallace. She seemed pretty aware of what was going on in that flashback where AK explains rose will be testifying anonymously. I'd even buy her running things. Wes was 12ish in that clip. He appears to be more or less the same age as when he later found Rose dead. 

Edited March 14, 2017 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

2 hours ago, harmfulhazards said:

They may not have to, by the way. Blacklist: Redemption is doing horribly in ratings (to be fair, all Thursday 10PM shows look quite sad in this regard now that HTGAWM is on hiatus). They still have five more episodes to air, but so far it looks very likely that it will not have a second season unless some miracle happens. Of course it doesn't necessarily mean Famke will want to return to HTGAWM. And Pete definitely could not have counted on it when he wrote storylines for 3B. I think it is safe to assume that any long term plans, that were made at that time, don't include Eve or any other recurring character other then Castillos and Mahoneys. But, on the other hand, Pete loves to say that he doesn't plan ahead at all, so who knows.

It still depends on Famke's availability and what type of development deal she has with NBC. Depending on how it is written she may not be available to return whether the Blacklist is renewed or not. Someone upthread mentioned that her current contract specifically prohibits her appear on a rival network show. My guess is she's highly unlikely to return to HTGAWM anytime soon.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Milaxx

[harmfulhazards]

In 2x12 was mentioned that Mahoney founded an investment company called Mahoney Hedge Management, which was under surveillance of FBI for allegedly stealing money from their clients. Other than that I don't remember any information about the exact nature of their business.

16 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

It still depends on Fake's availability and what type of development deal she has with NBC. Depending on how it is written she may not be available to return whether the Blacklist is renewed or not. Someone upthread mentioned that her current contract specifically prohibits her appear on a rival network show. My guess is she's highly unlikely to return t HTGAWM anytime soon

Usually actors are released from their contracts when their shows are cancelled. Cancellation itself doesn't guarantee availability, that's true, but it at least makes it theoretically possible. I guess we will find out in several months.

[Milaxx]

20 minutes ago, harmfulhazards said:

Usually actors are released from their contracts when their shows are cancelled. Cancellation itself doesn't guarantee availability, that's true, but it at least makes it theoretically possible. I guess we will find out in several months.

True but it depends on whether they have a development deal with the network.  I don't know if Famke has one or not. If she does NBC gets first dibbs before she can decide to take on any other roles.  So whether Blacklist was canceled or not, she still might not be available for 

 

31 minutes ago, harmfulhazards said:

 

In 2x12 was mentioned that Mahoney founded an investment company called Mahoney Hedge Management, which was under surveillance of FBI for allegedly stealing money from their clients.

 

The company was under surveillance but it doesn't mention money laundering or embezzlement. Sounds like perhaps they were running ponzi schemes. The prosecutor's were trying to say that Vicky knew about this and was going to turn them into to the FBI and that's why Charles killed her. AK was hired to defend Charles against the murder charge.

I do think the Castillos & Mahoney's are in cahoots, the question is which Mahoney; Charles, Sylvia, Wallace or any combination of the 3.

[Layne]

3 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Charles was acccused of killing a key witness to a case against their empire. Embezzlements and whatnot. Rose (Wes' mom apparently lied to Annaliese) and did not testify.

*Charles was accused of killing his girlfriend.  Rose was supposed to provide the alibi that he was in the office at the time of her death.


So let's look at the Mahoneys and the questions so far:
3.) Who killed Vicky? Was it really Charles? And why?
4.) What did Vicky knew about the Mahoneys? Why is she a key witness to the Mahoneys' Money laundering or embezzlement case?
5.) What did Rose Edison knew about the Mahoneys? Where was she when Vicky died?

*(4)What embezzlement/money laundering case? (3) We don't know for sure. Could have been Charles, my guess is it was Wallace.  (5)Rose was in the office doing her job as cleaning lady when Charles girlfriend was killed.  

The "key witness" that Charles Mahoney was accused of killing was his fiance, Vickie Moran, who'd agreed to act as an FBI informant in the investigation into the Mahoneys' hedge fund mgmt firm for embezzlement or money laundering or something white collar like that. That's why Charles/Vickie's murder trial was a federal case. 

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Layne said:

The "key witness" that Charles Mahoney was accused of killing was his fiance, Vickie Moran, who'd agreed to act as an FBI informant in the investigation into the Mahoneys' hedge fund mgmt firm for embezzlement or money laundering or something white collar like that. That's why Charles/Vickie's murder trial was a federal case. 

I understand why Charles was on trial for murder & why the feds were involved. The show never said money laundering or embezzlement. They were under investigation for not paying the investors of their hedge fund company. Vicky was supposed to testify regarding the misuse of funds. I stated as muc in the post directly above yours.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Milaxx

[Layne]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

I under why Charles was on trial for murder & why the feds were involved. 

Sorry idk what you're trying to say here. Did you mean "I know why Charles was on trial" or "I wonder why Charles was on trial" (or something else)? They're kind of opposite statements so idk which to respond to. :)