S04.E03: What Happens in Vegas

[chitowngirl]

As pressure mounts to craft a perfect first episode, Deborah and Ava continue to clash over creative control on their writers' "retreat" in Vegas.

[abronfeld1]

All those comedy writers and not one funny line from any of them?

[aghst]

14 minutes ago, abronfeld1 said:

All those comedy writers and not one funny line from any of them?

Well the task was to come up with an opening skit, not necessarily a monologue with one liners.

OK even during the truce, Deborah and Ava spar over how to manage and motivate the staff.  Deb is old school, wants to make them fear her, while Ava wants to nurture and encourage, build a supportive environment.

The show runners said in the after show that a writers room which works well is like group sex, with everyone contributing and riffing over each other’s ideas and that seems to happen in the end.

But Poppy warns Ava that Deborah never forgets, will probably come for her again at some point.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

OK even during the truce, Deborah and Ava spar over how to manage and motivate the staff.  Deb is old school, wants to make them fear her, while Ava wants to nurture and encourage, build a supportive environment.

This is where I think Deborah should give more deference to Ava.  Ava has worked in a writer's room.  She at least has some idea as to how they should work, even if some of her ice breakers and ideas are eye rolling.  Deborah, meanwhile, is someone who mostly works alone, or with one other person, like Ava.  

I do want to salute the actress playing the Las Vegas mayor.  She practically stole the episode with her scene. 

[Night Cheese]

I didn't realize how much I missed Vegas until this episode. I don't even really like Vegas, but it was great to blend an attempt at a writers retreat in with the typical craziness that is Las Vegas. 

This show is really firing on all cylinders. Even without almost all of the supporting cast, this was almost nonstop laughs for me and Mr Night Cheese. I'm curious what the gameplan is for the Late Night storyline. Given how much they've pivoted from season to season, I feel like they won't want to be stuck in LA beyond this season, but it would be pretty crappy to have Deborah fail after finally getting to host a late night show.

Loved seeing Poppy and the Mayor. Both really elevate the comedy in this show.

[sskrill]

The spoof on Carolyn Goodman is great. She is an alcoholic, and she and her husband never missed a chance to be front and center when a camera was around. Also never missed a chance to suck up to celebrities.

Not sure why Deborah picked the strip club. I know we're known for them but loud music and booze is not really conducive to what you're trying to accomplish.  There's so much to do here now surely they could have found something else, and they didn't really get anything interesting out of that location.

Deborah should have left Ava to deal with the writers for the first 2 days, then joined in later, or joined late in the day after they had the chance to get a feel for each other.  She's intimidating and expecting to snap her fingers and get results isn't great for creativity.

[Dev F]

9 hours ago, Night Cheese said:

I didn't realize how much I missed Vegas until this episode. I don't even really like Vegas, but it was great to blend an attempt at a writers retreat in with the typical craziness that is Las Vegas. 

I was expecting this to be the solution to their creative quandary as well: for the writers to realize that a perfect way to introduce Deborah Vance to her TV audience would be by reenacting a wild night out with her in the city where she's the queen.

[EtheltoTillie]

Geez, it must be hard to work on talk shows churning out new material four or five nights a week. What a pressure cooker! Deborah is a standup who was used to repeating her act each night.  She waited years for this gig, which requires something else.  You have to rely on a huge staff to churn out fifty bad ideas for every one that will work.  She is learning to work that way.  She did well in her substitute host gig and that got her the job.  Now the pressure is on.

I don’t watch late night shows much anymore (I grew up on Carson and then watched Letterman), but recently I’ve been watching Jimmy Kimmel, because he’s been killing it with his nightly political monologues. He has very funny, very sharp material, and his delivery is so polished. How do they do it?  

After watching this episode of Hacks I’m even more in awe. While I love Hacks, it has suffered the same problem I had with Mrs. Maisel.  As @abronfeld1 said above, not one funny line. It never seems like real comedy as comedy, just a dramatized version. Ot they’re just showing us the awkwardness of the new people working together. 

I still love this show. It is brilliant.

Edited Saturday at 08:42 AM by EtheltoTillie

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

After watching this episode of Hacks I’m even more in awe. While I love Hacks, it has suffered the same problem I had with Mrs. Maisel.  As @abronfeld1 said above, not one funny line. It never seems like real comedy as comedy, just a dramatized version. Ot they’re just showing us the awkwardness of the new people working together. 

I never understood that type of criticism against Mrs. Maisel, and same with Hacks.  Just because it's a show about a comedian doesn't mean every episode has to be filled with yuk-yuk laughs.  I laughed a lot during this episode, but it wasn't necessarily at the lines.  The awkward high 5 between Ava & Deborah; the going out into the hall scenes - Deborah ended the first with a scream, Ava did the same in the second; the expression on the one guy's face being told he was fired, rehired, etc. (but I could have done without the puking, to me puking is never funny, it's gross and almost always not necessary for the scene); the whole thing with the drunk mayor.  The HR lady having to be present whenever A&D are together. The awkwardness of the new people working together was funny for me.  YMMV.

I really expected the writers to come up with a Vegas themed opening.  Something like Deborah coming out all Vegas glitz & glam, doing her Vegas stand up, and then someone having to come out and tell her, um, this isn't Vegas, this is late night in LA.  Or her turning the set into a giant Vegas lounge for the opening night.  Or showgirls.  Or something like that.  

Was I the only one expecting Marty to show up to bail Deborah & Ava out with the cops?  (Maybe he's a big police association benefactor, has some pull with the local cops.)  I was a little sad he didn't appear at all this episode.  I guess he's out for this season.  

One thing I meant to comment on in the previous episodes...  I like the somewhat subtle changes they've made to Ava this season.  The wardrobe - nothing flashy, slacks and button downs, but much more Ann Taylor than Goodwill (despite her saying her wardrobe was from Goodwill).  Her hair is slightly done, but not overdone.  She even looks taller.  Deborah's wardrobe is a little less glitzy, but still Deborah.  I loved the flowy thing she was wearing this episode.  

 

21 hours ago, abronfeld1 said:

All those comedy writers and not one funny line from any of them?

That was sort of the point.  They were all so intimidated by Deborah and/or the spat going on between Ava and Deborah, they were stymied.  

[EtheltoTillie]

6 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I never understood that type of criticism against Mrs. Maisel, and same with Hacks. 

 

I think we're actually in agreement.  The show itself is hilarious.  The criticism we are referencing is that the jokes people are making when they are writing and performing jokes are not funny the way standup would be.  So it's great writing of the fictional/scripted variety.  I never laughed at Midge Maisel's standup except for her very first impromptu appearance. 

Edited Saturday at 01:35 PM by EtheltoTillie

[chaifan]

4 minutes ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I never laughed at Midge Maisel's standup except for her very first impromptu appearance. 

I laughed so hard at so much of Midge's standup.  So we'll just have to disagree on that.  🙃

I guess I don't really expect to laugh at jokes that are made in the context of "oh, here's a new joke, try this one out".  Because so much of stand-up is the synergy of the room - the order jokes are put in, the stories tying them together, the delivery/presentation, not to mention audience reaction.  (There's a reason they say laughter is contagious.)  It's more like, "heh, that's a good one" type of reaction from me in the moment.  But put it in the middle of a stand up set, and I'm likely to burst out laughing at the same line. 

 

[EtheltoTillie]

@chaifan agree!  It’s so much funnier to listen to standup with a live audience at a club or show. 

Edited Saturday at 02:17 PM by EtheltoTillie

[Blakeston]

I think the idea of a celebrity getting in trouble for bringing their employees to a strip club came from Lizzo, who was sued for bringing her backup dancers to a live sex show in Amsterdam.

You would think that Ava might have realized how inappropriate that was from a sexual harrassment standpoint, but she isn't as tuned into these things as she'd like to believe she is.

[iMonrey]

I guess in this world Joan Rivers never existed? Because Deborah isn't the first female late-night host.

This episode seemed to prove Deborah right about needing to hire professional late night writers. None of these kids seem up to the task.

In fact so far the first three episodes seem to be leaning pretty heavily into telling us Deborah is right and Eva is in the wrong. About everything.

[Francie]

This season has been so painful for me, I'm sad to say. 

I think the showrunners have downplayed what Ava has done with the blackmail. Ava knows Deborah didn't sleep with Bob Lipka to get the job, yet that was what she was threatening to tell the world. And Ava only knew that because Deborah let down her guard and started to trust Ava. Something seemingly that she hadn't done in decades. So for Ava to claim the high road on that and brag about domming her -- it's leaving a serious bad taste in my mouth. Deborah isn't just holding a grudge, as Kiki and Jimmy say. She's dealing with an untrustworthy individual who has shown she'll exploit her for her own gain (sorry, not buying the 'I did this for us' when her alternative was to accept the No. 2 in name spot. Yes, that's unfair to her, having been offered the No. 1 job. But if she was weighing what this betrayal would to do Deborah and their partnership, the calculus does not weigh in the favor of blackmail). 

Admittedly, I watch this show for Jean Smart. And what's missing this year is Deborah's voice. We saw only a tiny bit of it with her sit down with Marcus. And even then, she didn't reveal anything, in part to continue protecting the ever self-destructive Ava. Jimmy's playing dumb (what exactly does he know? and why isn't he better protecting his No. 1 client instead of playing marriage counselor?), Marty's not in the picture, and she and Ava are at odds. Jean's had to make do with expressing Deborah's state of mind without any verbal outlet. And as impressive as she is, it's not making for great television. 

What's with the strip club? Is that seriously where  a half-female and certainly a gay man or two would -- not only want to go -- but not feel extremely uncomfortable? I was a young professional in my late 20s on a conference trip with boss, and a strip club was not .. I can't even finish the sentence, it was so stupid. The car racing was stupid. Who wants to go see their bosses race around a track? 

Deborah could have shown the crew a good time with her celebrity and access to a chef's table, the gambling parlors in all the big hotels that are off-limits to the general public (if you ever are in Vegas in one of the grander hotels, and there's a guy with an ear piece standing next to a wall that has a stealth door, that's the entrance to the gambling rooms where the likes of Brad Pitt and Tom Hanks gamble) and front row tickets at the biggest show in town. Not this lame 1990s Swingers version of Vegas with rainbow rolls, gambling on the floor, and, again, an off-the-strip strip club. 

This show is like the never ending spinning circle you get on your computer when it locks up. 

Episode 1: Deborah's dream turns into a nightmare. 

Episode 2: Deborah's dream turns into a nightmare (bonus - literal nightmare). 

Episode 3: Deborah's dream turns into a nightmare. 

Let me guess what episode 4 is going to be about. 

 

 

 

[astrohip]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I guess in this world Joan Rivers never existed? Because Deborah isn't the first female late-night host.

I think they said something like "first female late-night host on a major network", to cover their ass. She did have that very short-lived show on Fox, but it was when Fox was new, and certainly wasn't a major network.

[chaifan]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This episode seemed to prove Deborah right about needing to hire professional late night writers. None of these kids seem up to the task.

Didn't Deborah say that she split the writing staff - 1/2 were her choices, more seasoned writers; 1/2 were from Ava's stack.  I honestly don't know who was from which pile, though.  

3 hours ago, Francie said:

And Ava only knew that because Deborah let down her guard and started to trust Ava.

Ava knew because she saw Deborah doing the walk of shame back to her room the next morning.  I'm pretty sure she put 2 and 2 together.  I can't remember if Deborah "confessed" as well, but Ava knew even without that happening.  

I'm ok with the current dynamic between Ava and Deborah.  I like how each season the writers have changed the relationship.  It's kept each season fresh and moving, in one direction or another.  One constant - it's a toxic relationship, horribly unhealthy for both of them.  Another constant - it's proven (so far) to be good for Deborah's career.   

Deborah made a comment in the back of the cop car about always writing for herself and how that has "worked".  Yes, it worked from a money standpoint, but not from a creative standpoint.  She was stagnating, she knew it, Ava brought new life into her routine.  I was a bit surprised Ava just let that comment sit there and not defend her role in where Deborah is today.  

 

[WinonaDeer]

3 hours ago, chaifan said:

Ava knew because she saw Deborah doing the walk of shame back to her room the next morning.  I'm pretty sure she put 2 and 2 together.  I can't remember if Deborah "confessed" as well, but Ava knew even without that happening.  

Ava would have assumed it was Marty. She asked Deborah as much the next morning. Aftr that, she gussed Bill Blatt from Cincinatti. Ava would not have figured out it was the married Bob Lipka. 

You know, that makes Ava's blackmail all the more ridiculous. She had no proof to back up her claim. If Deborah hadn't relented, and if Ava had sent that email to the New Yorker, and they bothered to check it out, they would have learned that Ava had been recently been demoted. Bob and Deborah would have denied her claim and said she was a disgruntled demoted employee. I would say, if Deborah hadn't been in panic stricken mode, she would have seen that and called Ava's bluff. But Ava is so unthinking and reckless, she possibly wasn't bluffing. 

This season isn't doing it for me, so far. I've heard of a sophomore slump. Is there a term for a four-year senior slump? 

[WinonaDeer]

On 4/19/2025 at 8:29 AM, chaifan said:

Was I the only one expecting Marty to show up to bail Deborah & Ava out with the cops?  (Maybe he's a big police association benefactor, has some pull with the local cops.)  I was a little sad he didn't appear at all this episode.  I guess he's out for this season.  

Me too. Chris McDonald must appear at some point this season, as he was at the premiere party and did the red carpet. 

[chaifan]

13 hours ago, WinonaDeer said:

Ava would have assumed it was Marty. She asked Deborah as much the next morning. Aftr that, she gussed Bill Blatt from Cincinatti. Ava would not have figured out it was the married Bob Lipka. 

Oh, thanks.  I remembered her seeing Deborah out the window, but I didn't think about all the possible other choices.  

I'm not bothered by the blackmail issue.  It fits with their dynamic.  Maybe Ava took it too far, but that seems to be the pattern with these two.  Go too far, pull back, lather, rinse, repeat.  

[iMonrey]

22 hours ago, Francie said:

I think the showrunners have downplayed what Ava has done with the blackmail.

Really? I think the opposite. Everyone Ava tells about the blackmail has shamed her for it. And every step Ava has taken thus far has proven wrong. As I posted above, the season seems to be leaning heavily into showing us Deborah is right and Ava is wrong.

18 hours ago, chaifan said:

Didn't Deborah say that she split the writing staff - 1/2 were her choices, more seasoned writers; 1/2 were from Ava's stack.  I honestly don't know who was from which pile, though.  

They all seem pretty green to me.

[SeanC]

The actress who played the stripper who briefly gives Deborah a lapdance also played a stripper in Anora last year; I'm guessing the creative team must have liked that movie.

[Francie]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Really? I think the opposite. Everyone Ava tells about the blackmail has shamed her for it. And every step Ava has taken thus far has proven wrong. As I posted above, the season seems to be leaning heavily into showing us Deborah is right and Ava is wrong.

My point is a different one than just that characters like Jimmy and Kiki shaming Ava for blackmailing. Neither Jimmy, as far as we know, nor Kiki know the information Ava is using. Yes, I agree with you on this different point that you are making -- people are telling Ava what she did was wrong. I'll add in Diana, who tells Ava her aura is now rancid. But Jimmy and Kiki only seem to be concerned that Deborah, in their words, holds a grudge. Although, admittedly, Kiki, to some degree, did pass along a bit of judgment, in general, too. 

I agree with you the season is leaning toward Ava being wrong, and I think throughout this season, what will play out is the cost of both the blackmail and the toll of head writer job on Ava. It may prove to be true that Deborah is right that Ava is not equipped for that particular job, with all its demands. 

Other things that I think will play out this season is that Deborah will ultimately do what Ava accused her last season of never doing: Deborah will put someone else before herself. Actually, frankly, we've already seen Deborah do that in season 1 when when she put on death pall make up and wore sweats and no wig over to DJ's apartment knowing that paparazzi would take less than flattering pictures of her. But the sacrifice this season, I'm speculating, will likely involve grander stakes and be a sacrifice for Ava's sake. I also think it's possible, if not likely, we'll hear the phrase "big, brave girl" again in a positive, encouraging (and, no, not sexual) way. In other words, I think Ava's heading for a bad fall, figuratively, and Deborah will be there for her. 

My point above was that, that general criticism - blackmail is bad - doesn't get at the heart of the violation of trust Ava undertook. As I said above, Ava twisted the truth to create an outright lie -- Deborah did not sleep with Bob to get the job. If you freeze on the draft email she sent to the New Yorker, Ava claims that she just learned that Deborah slept with Bob in order to get the job and she felt responsible in letting the New Yorker know that's how Deborah acquired the job. That is all an outright lie, in two ways. Ava neither just learned about it, nor does she believe Deborah slept with Bob in order to get the job.  Second, Ava is putting her self-interest in being head writer over the No. 2 spot over the emotional and psychological setback Deborah would experience in having one of her first attempts in being honest with a friend and sharing information she felt shame over being used against her. Maybe the writers will touch on that later this season. But they certainly haven't to date. 

I just saw an interview with Carol Leifer, who wrote the One Day episode last season. She used to write for Seinfeld in the early years, and is a more, shall we say, seasoned writer. She wasn't with Hacks this past season, and she mentioned having been 20 to 30 years older than all the other writers on Hacks. I think it's a shame all the writers are of a particular age group, because I'm really feeling a lack of a certain voice this season. I feel like I'm watching an entirely different, and much more immature, show. 

 

 

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

The actress who played the stripper who briefly gives Deborah a lapdance also played a stripper in Anora last year; I'm guessing the creative team must have liked that movie.

JPL like to take things from real life, and back when Jean filmed Watchmen, one of Jean's costars, Tim Blake Nelson, took her out on their last day of shooting to the Clermont Lounge in Atlanta. Apparently, it's a famous strip club, where the female performers are nearly all senior citizens.

So, that may be the inspiration, along with the Hacks staff writer's idea of what the most fun night in Vegas a multi-millionaire could show you would be. 

Edited Monday at 06:43 PM by Francie
leaning, not leaving

[Irlandesa]

29 minutes ago, Francie said:

I just saw an interview with Carol Leifer, who wrote the One Day episode last season. She used to write for Seinfeld in the early years, and is a more, shall we say, seasoned writer. She wasn't with Hacks this past season, and she mentioned having been 20 to 30 years older than all the other writers on Hacks. I think it's a shame all the writers are of a particular age group, because I'm really feeling a lack of a certain voice this season. I feel like I'm watching an entirely different, and much more immature, show. 

I don't think it's maturity. Carol Leifer is 68.  That'd mean the other writers she's talking about are close to 40 and 50 years old.  I do think having a comedienne close to Deborah's age is a good voice to have in the writers room and maybe that's the voice that you're missing.

 

[Francie]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think it's maturity. Carol Leifer is 68.  That'd mean the other writers she's talking about are close to 40 and 50 years old.  I do think having a comedienne close to Deborah's age is a good voice to have in the writers room and maybe that's the voice that you're missing.

 

According to imdb, the writer credited for What Happens in Vegas episode has exactly two writing credits; 1) that episode of Hacks; and 2) The Baby-Sitters Club in 2020. 

She was hired by Hacks as the script coordinator for one episode back in 2020. The episode aired in 2021. I think she's quite a bit younger than either 40 or 50.

Two other writers have appeared on screen -- the hotel desk clerk in season 1 and the "the pants stay on" bell hop from last season. One in mid 30s, the other is early 40s. 

 

 

 

 

[BaggythePanther]

2 hours ago, Francie said:

If you freeze on the draft email she sent to the New Yorker, Ava claims that she just learned that Deborah slept with Bob in order to get the job and she felt responsible in letting the New Yorker know that's how Deborah acquired the job.

Maybe I wasn’t paying close enough attention but my understanding based on the dialogue was that Ava was just going to mention the suspicious timing of the affair, not blatantly lie. That’s a whole other level that should have been emphasized.

 

2 hours ago, Francie said:

Second, Ava is putting her self-interest in being head writer over the No. 2 spot over the emotional and psychological setback Deborah would experience in having one of her first attempts in being honest with a friend and sharing information she felt shame over being used against her. Maybe the writers will touch on that later this season. But they certainly haven't to date. 

I think the writers have been touching on this. Ava doesn’t think forcing her way into the head writing position is self-serving but that it’s what Deborah needs for the show to be successful. Because of the betrayal Ava is assuming that professional success is the only thing that matters to Deborah. It’s not until the photo shoot in episode 1 when Ava realizes she caused some emotional damage. Then when they’re in the back of the cop car in episode 3 Ava again makes the argument that she forced her way into the head writer job ‘for both of them’ and Deborah pushes back against that. I think (hope) part of the reconciliation will be Ava recognizing she hurt Deborah similarly to how Deborah has hurt her. 

[ofmd]

I agree that 

1. this wasn't a great episode and

2. yes, the show is definitely taking Deborah's side, with almost comically everyone telling Ava she's done A Very Bad Thing. It's very on-the-nose, particularly with the "medium". So I have no doubts Ava is heading for a fall, probably both professionally and mentally (having lost her "innocence" etc)