S24.E10 Greater Good

[Xeliou66]

Here’s the description for tonight’s episode 

When a music mogul is found dead, Shaw and Riley clash with an undercover officer unwilling to cooperate; Price and Baxter disagree on whether the victim’s reputation could help or hinder the jury’s decision in the case. 

[MediaZone4K]

I knew a Diddy episode was coming. 

The case was a little too easy, no mystery.

The race angle felt random, it would have been stronger if the suspect were white.

As much as I understand the CI's position of not seeking justice for a billionaire sex trafficker, It was an open shut case where someone killed someone and got caught.

Im surprised we didn't see Pryce or especially Maroun feeling conflicted about prosecuting the dad. They acted like regular prosecutors not bleeding hearts like some episodes, kind of like what next week is gearing up to be.

Edited 20 hours ago by MediaZone4K

[Xeliou66]

Another really good episode - I figured a Diddy inspired episode was coming, surprised the Mothership tackled it before SVU. It was a good case with solid investigation and trial and I liked each character’s role.  

I agree that the race angle felt a bit forced, but I didn’t feel sympathy for the undercover cop - she blew up her career herself by lying on the stand, Shaw didn’t do it for her. She put her own agenda ahead of following the law and that’s unacceptable. I wish Shaw had told her off more at the end, she had a lot of nerve to accuse him of “giving up” when Shaw was just doing what any good cop would - following the law and telling the truth. Riley was really strong as well, and he made very good points in the scene where him and Shaw were having drinks IMO - they can’t justify breaking the rules every now and then, that would lead to chaos. I like how Vince is a very by the book and strait laced detective. I got Shaw’s pain though at seeing what the female cop did, because she wanted to make the world better, the same reason Shaw became a cop, but she made her own choice by letting her sympathy for the defendant outweigh her duty to uphold the law. Overall I thought the storyline played out pretty well and was compelling. I really like the Riley/Shaw partnership.

I also liked how Baxter wasn’t going to stand for vigilante justice, he reminded me a lot of his predecessor McCoy in that scene, and said that they can’t go easy on vigilantes. Price was good as well, I’m liking him more and more lately and I liked his closing argument, I do wish we would see the defense’s closing arguments as well sometimes, but Price was good here. Maroun was fine as well. And Brady is growing on me some in that she isn’t irritating like she was at the start and she’s established a better rapport with everyone else, I still prefer Dixon though.

I liked seeing Baxter/Price/Maroun walking outside and discussing the case, we haven’t seen many outdoor scenes with the DAs like that.

My biggest issue with the episode was the defense suddenly changing to a self defense plea in the middle of trial, seems like that would’ve caused issues but it was glossed over, that was the only part of the episode that felt off.

Overall this was another strong episode with a good investigation and trial and some good stuff for each character. 3 very good episodes in a row for the Mothership!!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

undercover cop - she blew up her career herself by lying on the stand

I'm pretty sure there have been quite a few L&O episodes over the decades in which a witness who was also a cop has recanted (lied) on the stand, stating they were mistaken, and now recalled it differently, but the undercover cop in this episode did not do that, which is believable given her youthful idealism. 
I really want to complain about her later blaming the Detective Shaw for ruining her career, but it was realistic for her to do that, so I can't complain about the script, just the character's naivety and misplaced idealism.

Nevertheless, the various bits of dialog in the episode managed to convey that law and justice are not always equivalent, so, yes, kudos to the writers. 
They even managed to suggest there was hope that the gap might be narrowed with the next generation. I don't know if putting that hope in the mouths of Law & Order characters (including Shaw in his talk with Riley) will manifest anything into the zeitgeist, but, hey, it doesn't hurt.

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I also liked how Baxter wasn’t going to stand for vigilante justice,

And yes, they script didn't ignore the problems with vigilantism. 

Edited 18 hours ago by shapeshifter

[Irlandesa]

I was a little frustrated with the younger cop's decision to lie and then not doing the lie very well. And the defense attorney as well.

Her response when Shaw asked if she saw the bottle was "I didn't see a bottle" but she could have easily flipped that on the stand to "I didn't focus on his hands so he might have had one." In addition, when it came to her word against Shaw's testimony to what she did or didn't see, there was photographic evidence that he left the party with a bottle of champagne in his hand.  That gives her an additional bit of credibility. 

2 hours ago, MediaZone4K said:

The race angle felt random, it would have been stronger if the suspect were white.

The suspect or the victim?  I don't think she'd do this if the suspect were white but if the sex trafficking victim were, I could see her making the choices she made based on race.

[The Wild Sow]

13 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Her response when Shaw asked if she saw the bottle was "I didn't see a bottle" but she could have easily flipped that on the stand to "I didn't focus on his hands so he might have had one." In addition, when it came to her word against Shaw's testimony to what she did or didn't see, there was photographic evidence that he left the party with a bottle of champagne in his hand.  That gives her an additional bit of credibility. 

Really! All she had to do was tell Shaw that he had a bottle, or might have had one! Especially since he did have it when he came out (and where’d it go, anyway?) 

Altogether a stupid & forgettable episode.

[Andyourlittledog2]

All this talk about one rule for 'our community' and one for everyone else is bullshit. Once cops do that then you really can't trust any cop of any color to tell the truth or defend the actual law because they could simply be skewing the truth to fit what they want and think is best for 'their community'. I realize that this was common enough (and sometimes still is) with white cops but the correction isn't to go the other way and lie for a different racial community.  Cops should be cops for all people, not just for 'their people'. It really bothers me when this show goes this route in their cases. It makes my serious BS radar ping like crazy.  Undercover cop had no business being a cop. Period. We are all better off when agendas are absent or at least sadly unconscious and not an explicit desired outcome. It's not the fact that the writers had undercover doing this so much as that there was so much discussion among some of our lead cops and attorneys excusing it and making it seem reasonable and even a legitimate good. That's several bridges too far for me.  

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I was a little frustrated with the younger cop's decision to lie and then not doing the lie very well. And the defense attorney as well.

Her response when Shaw asked if she saw the bottle was "I didn't see a bottle" but she could have easily flipped that on the stand to "I didn't focus on his hands so he might have had one." In addition, when it came to her word against Shaw's testimony to what she did or didn't see, there was photographic evidence that he left the party with a bottle of champagne in his hand.  That gives her an additional bit of credibility.

Yes, this would've worked better if the defense attorney had been a stereotypical young, inexperienced public defender, but they cast Michael Beach, who is not young and who was already a defense attorney on L&O twice in 2022, and didn't play dumb. 

[jalady]

 

Quote

there was photographic evidence that he left the party with a bottle of champagne in his hand.

Exactly!  Why wasn't that picture introduced by the defense attorney?  That could have gone a long way into giving his self-defense claim some credence.  And while the episode indicated that he didn't have the bottle in hand when he was shot, we (the audience) don't know if he did or not.  I am no bleeding heart (former federal prosecutor) but that could have given the jury some basis for reasonable doubt.  Going with just the lying UC made the defense seem inadequate, esp. since Michael Beach is a seasoned defense attorney in the L&O universe.  The verdict didn't bother me but this misstep really did!

[babyrambo]

This felt like a super dated season one episode, with all the caricature and little nuance. I was waiting for Shambala Green and a Nation of Islam representative to pop up lol

Because all that black community talk was corny and undercooked and came off extremely forced. I’ve noticed that the writers love to bring up the ‘black community’ in cases like this, when what they actually mean is black men. And there’s almost always a black woman defending them with little thought for themselves. In cases like this, where they’re the defendants, I get it to some degree but the female ‘catalyst’  (& there’s often a female catalyst like that guy who’s wife died in childbirth) of their violent actions are almost never given full consideration. But maybe that’s how it is for most cases and I’ve only noticed with these.

I did like the Washburn though, wild naïveté and all. I don’t buy that she got be a whole detective without grasping just how racist, contradictory, and underhanded the NYPD can be though. The mogul was vile and deserved what he got, I agreed with her there, but for her to be a cop, and proudly say this Riley & Shaw? Inane. Just zero slickness or self preservation. With how she was talking she was clearly over it and needed to quit asap. I’m surprised she hasn’t gotten herself into hot water before this even. 

But the actress sold the silly lines she was given, even though almost everything that came out of her mouth was over the top to the point of parody. I liked her back and forth with Shaw, and wouldn’t mind them professionally investing in that dynamic, but I’m really over the ever crusading black female character who goes to bat for black men with little regard for herself. In this show and others. 

Any maybe it’s because there were so many known faces but I kept expecting Sherri Saum (dead guy’s wife) to have done it—especially when she went to Baxter to shut down the trial—and would’ve preferred they gone that route; so the race angle doubly fell flat.  I did like Nolan though, he came alive in court in a way he rarely does.

[preeya]

9 hours ago, The Wild Sow said:

Altogether a stupid & forgettable episode.

I agree, as I hated it.

[The Wild Sow]

2 hours ago, babyrambo said:

I did like the Washburn though, wild naïveté and all. I don’t buy that she got be a whole detective without grasping just how racist, contradictory, and underhanded the NYPD can be though. The mogul was vile and deserved what he got, I agreed with her there, but for her to be a cop, and proudly say this Riley & Shaw? Inane. Just zero slickness or self preservation. With how she was talking she was clearly over it and needed to quit asap. I’m surprised she hasn’t gotten herself into hot water before this even.

That too! I was wondering through the whole thing, who the heck acts like that?  And how did she ever get through a psych evaluation to even get on the force?

Plus, she's undercover, she must have superior officers aware of what she's doing.  Where were they?

Dumb, dumb episode.

[Raja]

26 minutes ago, The Wild Sow said:

Plus, she's undercover, she must have superior officers aware of what she's doing.  Where were they?

Not your ordinary Sergeant Bell has her hands full with Elliot Stabler.

They just pulled the same lack of supervision with the FBI terrorist recruiter

[MerBearHou]

4 hours ago, jalady said:

Quote

here was photographic evidence that he left the party with a bottle of champagne in his hand.

Exactly!  Why wasn't that picture introduced by the defense attorney?  That could have gone a long way into giving his self-defense claim some credence.  And while the episode indicated that he didn't have the bottle in hand when he was shot, we (the audience) don't know if he did or not.  I am no bleeding heart (former federal prosecutor) but that could have given the jury some basis for reasonable doubt. 

Ditto here -- I don't recall ever seeing the victim put the bottle down and I distinctly recall seeing him on video, carrying it out of the club so what gives?

Edited 5 hours ago by MerBearHou

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, babyrambo said:

I was waiting for Shambala Green and a Nation of Islam representative to pop up lol

I remember when Shambala and Ben Stone would just spend a given episode yelling at each other.  She did seem to mellow somewhat when they brought her back years later to tussle with McCoy.  

I wish someone had pointed out to Washburn that she was acting just like the bad cops she presumably was rebelling against.  She was picking and choosing which rules to follow, and trying to obstruct justice to get the result she wanted.

[dubbel zout]

15 hours ago, MediaZone4K said:

I knew a Diddy episode was coming. 

Diddy was the McGuffin more than anything. I felt like the show was trying to have it both ways by having a music-world predator be the victim.

4 hours ago, babyrambo said:

Any maybe it’s because there were so many known faces but I kept expecting Sherri Saum (dead guy’s wife) to have done it

Same. I also expected the wife to have a bigger part in the case than she did. Since she didn't, that role could have been played by anyone, really. (Not that it wasn't a treat to see Saum.)

Edited 4 hours ago by dubbel zout

[cfinboston]

I thought this had potential to be as good as any OG episode. It had a lot of OG feel with the idea that you still have to prosecute sympathetic defendents but justice can be tempered with mercy.

There was a lot of need for backstory. It felt like a longer episode that was too aggressively edited. For instance, in every episode of the franchise for decades, the defense has been shown providing a notice of intent to seek an affirmative defense, here they just suddenly broke it out mid trial. Every time an undercover cop has revealed him or herself to the other detectives, they ask to be arrested to keep their cover. Vanessa just said to arrest her but for no real reason.

From a racial perspective, if I didn't know Dick Wolfe was a liberal, I'd think this was written by a massive racist. Vanessa was entirely unsympathetic; she literally laughed off the idea that as a cop she should be solving crimes. She seemed to think that fixing a broken system just means gaming it for their benefit instead of white peoples. She assumed Shaw would side with her because he was black. She ultimately blames Shaw for her refusal to do her job and for her choice to purjure herself. She (and the defense attorney) also highlighted that the defendent was such a good dad and it wasn't fair to his kids to imprison him; it came off less about race and more about how he was a "good" minority.

Some lazy writing: Shaw and Riley ask Vanessa her name after they've spoken to her commanding officer. How did they verify she was a cop and not learn her name?

I think they also should have done more with his wife's attempts to stop the prosecution. This would show it's not really about race, but class. Both victim and murderer were black, so why not show how the wealthy and powerful get treated differently?

It would have also been more interesting to show the daughter's relationship with Wes. Presumably, dad didn't think she was getting free rent and money from Wes because he was a good guy.

 

4 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Diddy was the McGuffin more than anything. I felt like the show was trying to have it both ways by having a music-world predator be the victim.

Same. I also expected the wife to have a bigger part in the case than she did. Since she didn't, that role could have been played by anyone, really. (Not that it wasn't a treat to see Saum.)

I thought they should have made this a two part episode or crossover. It could have highlighted the intersection of race and social status. Plenty of black men with money and power have gotten away with crimes. OJ is the most notorious, but there's also Ray Lewis and Michael Vick. They could have shown more of her throwing her weight around with Baxter.

[txhorns79]

16 minutes ago, cfinboston said:

Both victim and murderer were black, so why not show how the wealthy and powerful get treated differently?

They kind of did.  The wife got a meeting with the Baxter, mentioned her support of his campaign and asked a favor.  Even more to the point, he appeared to be honoring her request to get a deal, rather than have the case go to trial and have all her husband's demons come out, until that did not work out.