Supergirl Speculation

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss here!

[Kromm]

moved from the general Comic Book TV topic:
 

For that other character, you mean Superman? Why not just give her a version of his origin instead? Strikes me as the easiest solution.

Easy, yes, but it seems too easy and I think could create some instant bad reactions to the show.  There's already a school of thought that's always objected to female Superheroes who seem like adjuncts to male ones.  Shoehorning the male heroes' origin onto a female version seems ripe for suggestions that she's just a proxy for the male hero (making it at best, unoriginal, and at worst a token attempt to placate people who say that there aren't enough female heroes by transforming a male one into a female). 

 

I suppose that could all play out in reviews, and in forums like this, and the general public may neither know nor care about the gender politics of the situation.  But they WILL still be able to see the unoriginality of it. 

 

At this point I'm assuming there's zero chance they're going to have her wear the red and blue classic outfit with the S shield.  Smallville didn't use that either (although I guess they implied it very late in the series).  If it did appear then you'd have to explain it, and that involves explaining the House of El and her relationship to it.

 

I did wonder at one point if they might give her some strange twist of the current Power Girl origin.  "From another dimension where she was a hero and establishing herself in this one".  But it seems not from the little we know, because this seems more like an origin story, maybe a little bit onwards, where she's young.  So it's Smallville country, in it's intentions, I mean (I doubt they'd have the balls to actually set the show in Smallville--although certain versions of Supergirl's early life had her placed there by Superman to be raised by the Kents--more commonly though they had her in an Orphanage then adopted by a family named Danvers, who lived in Midvale--a suburb of Metropolis).  

 

They could also dive full-bore into accepting that Superman exists, but simply contrive tons to never show him.  That opens up possible Superboy type origins (the modern Superboy, I mean--who's a partial clone of Superman--not the original Superboy who was the same person as Superman but younger).  That's of course even more in the "adjunct to a male hero" thing, but at least it would be head-on about that and not sneaky about it, like stapling the male heroes origin on her.  

 

If they just create some totally random alternate origin, that has nothing to do with Superman in the least, or Power Girl for that matter, it better be good.  I mean the flip side of totally disconnecting her from the Superman legacy might be people not giving a shit about the character at all (really, in some ways, you can't win--either way someone's going to dislike it).  

Edited September 23, 2014 by Kromm

[Trini]

Well, if Caity Lotz isn't going to be Arrow anymore, I've got one candidate for the leading role....

Edited October 19, 2014 by Trini

[MarkHB]

moved from the general Comic Book TV topic:

 

At this point I'm assuming there's zero chance they're going to have her wear the red and blue classic outfit with the S shield.  Smallville didn't use that either (although I guess they implied it very late in the series).  If it did appear then you'd have to explain it, and that involves explaining the House of El and her relationship to it.

 

Well, in our world it's an "S".... ;)  Plus, regarding the gender politics you mention, the classic outfit or something similar has to be better than Power Girl's standard Cleavage of Might costume.

[Meredith Quill]

Looking forward to this, hope they do it justice.

[MarkHB]

Latest casting rumor is that Gemma Atkinson has auditioned.  I don't know much about her, but I worry about whether she can act while doing an American accent; that's part of what sunk Bionic Woman, that Michelle Ryan couldn't do it.  Also, apparently the source of the rumor is The Sun, so many grains of salt.

[Meredith Quill]

Never seen any of the stuff GA's been in, so have no idea about her, Michelle Ryan was awful in BW but she's a horrible actress anyway in imo.

[Agent Dark]

Haha, I remember Gemma Atkinson from the cutscene movies in Red Alert 3 (a real time strategy video game).  With the Soviets losing in Red Alert 2, they come into Red Alert 3 with a plan to go back in time and kill Einstein so he can't give the Allies the huge technological advantage they have in Red Alert 2 (mind you this is after Einstein himself goes back in time in Red Alert 1 to kill Hitler and prevent WW2, but in doing so unchecks the aggression of Stalin's Soviet Union).  The Soviets alter history to put them in a winning position over the Allies, but the unforeseen consequence is that now Imperial Japan is a major player and decides to take on both the Allies and the Soviets.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_XX1FF2skw - the cutscenes from the Allied campaign.  You'll probably recognize a few faces there too.  It's pure cheese but that's kinda the point with the Red Alert games lol.

[MarkHB]

It looks like Gemma Atkinson is out of the running (if she was ever in it): she's been confirmed as joining Emmerdale.

[Trini]

If CBS isn't on board with a full-fledged, inter-network crossover (with Flash most likely), maybe they can do a story where one event affects both shows, or maybe a minor character/guest star appears on both shows. In any case, I think both shows would have to be solid performers for their respective networks to allow them some wiggle room to make it work.

[MarkHB]

Personally, I'd love to see the role of Cat Grant go to either Vanessa Williams or Eva Longoria.  Hopefully we'll get more announcements soon since they announced Jimmy (excuse me, James) Olsen!

[Trini]

Not that I don't love Vanessa, but it might end up being a repeat of her Wilhelmina Slater role. Longoria is a good suggestion; I feel like they're going to have to get a "name" for the role. I suck at fantasy casting, I'd love to hear other suggestions!

 

I wonder if they'd take someone from the pool of comic/sci-fi veteran actors.

 

--------

Now the James (Jimmy!) Olsen casting is really interesting to me, not just because it's a Black actor, but that he's also about a decade older than the lead. Compared to how Jimmy has been portrayed before, they're clearly going for something different here. Elsewhere I've seen it suggested that this Jimmy has already had experiences with Superman/Clark/Lois in Metropolis. Jimmy has been linked romantically to Supergirl in other versions, but I have a feeling they won't pursue that (much?) here.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Trini

[MarkHB]

The original casting calls said they were looking for actresses 22-26 for Kara, and "late 20's / early 30's" for James.  Melissa is 26 and Mehcad is 34, so they both fit those criteria (I figure they had a little more headroom on casting James since Melissa's at the top of the Kara range).

[legaleagle53]

Not that I don't love Vanessa, but it might end up being a repeat of her Wilhelmina Slater role. Longoria is a good suggestion; I feel like they're going to have to get a "name" for the role. I suck at fantasy casting, I'd love to hear other suggestions!

 

I wonder if they'd take someone from the pool of comic/sci-fi veteran actors.

 

--------

Now the James (Jimmy!) Olsen casting is really interesting to me, not just because it's a Black actor, but that he's also about a decade older than the lead. Compared to how Jimmy has been portrayed before, they're clearly going for something different here. Elsewhere I've seen it suggested that this Jimmy has already had experiences with Superman/Clark/Lois in Metropolis. Jimmy has linked romantically to Supergirl in other versions, but I have a feeling they won't pursue that (much?) here.

 

Really?  A black Jimmy Olsen in his thirties?  I can well imagine that the purists (of which I'm one) had a hissy fit at that announcement.  Then again, considering that they're totally rewriting Kara's origin to basically make her alter ego nothing more than Clark Kent in drag, I suppose nothing should surprise me.

[The Crazed Spruce]

Really?  A black Jimmy Olsen in his thirties?  I can well imagine that the purists (of which I'm one) had a hissy fit at that announcement.

You'd think so, but I haven't heard anything. Either colourblind casting is becoming more accepted, or Jimmy is on the short list of characters that the fan community can see as either race. That, or I'm not reading the "right" forums.

[Trini]

 

That, or I'm not reading the "right" forums.

 

Oh, it's out there.

But some are also objecting to the fact that almost everything about the usual portrayal of Jimmy Olsen has been changed. "Jimmy in name only."

[Lazlo]

Oh, it's out there.

But some are also objecting to the fact that almost everything about the usual portrayal of Jimmy Olsen has been changed. "Jimmy in name only."

 

That is my issue as well.

 

The thing about Jimmy is that he's young, overenthusiastic and a bit of a klutz. That doesn't have to mean 'comedic bumbler' but a "smart, worldly" thirty something is honestly about as far from Jimmy as you can get.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Lazlo

[MarkHB]

Something just occurred to me for the flying sequences: I wonder if they've gotten to the point that they can shoot network-quality HD from a drone?

[The Crazed Spruce]

Something just occurred to me for the flying sequences: I wonder if they've gotten to the point that they can shoot network-quality HD from a drone?

If not, we've got, what, three months before they're ready to shoot the pilot? Plenty of time.

[MarkHB]

Start of production has been pushed back to March; they were originally scheduled to start this week.  Note that the linked page has spoilers (taken from the audition videos) if you keep going down the page.

[MarkHB]

Apparently, filming for the pilot starts today; there is also some location work permitted for Friday in Los Angeles.

 

Personally, I love that they're using the receding-letters logo.

[Trini]

 

Personally, I love that they're using the receding-letters logo.

 

That's cool and all, but I assume they'll use something new for the when they get into the actual marketing of the show. (If it does indeed go to series.)

 

OT/ I remember following the production of the Wonder Woman pilot; did they ever have a logo for that? /OT

[MarkHB]

You mean the David E. Kelley thing with Adrianne Palicki?  I don't know what they might have used for a logo during production (as we see here with the receding letters), but I am pretty sure that if one were to somehow find a copy to watch, that they would see pretty basic chyron lettering befitting an early cut that was quashed before post-production.

 

Incidentally, there's also this from Andrew Kreisberg.

[MarkHB]

Apparently, filming for the pilot starts today; there is also some location work permitted for Friday in Los Angeles.

 

Personally, I love that they're using the receding-letters logo.

 

I just noticed something in that first photo that I linked (under "filming for the pilot starts today"): I thought that the further chair in the photo just had a jacket thrown on it, but now I see that it's a person sitting in it, but their head has been edited out (at a MS Paint level of sophistication).  Melissa's new Supergirl 'do?

 

[The Crazed Spruce]

I just noticed something in that first photo that I linked (under "filming for the pilot starts today"): I thought that the further chair in the photo just had a jacket thrown on it, but now I see that it's a person sitting in it, but their head has been edited out (at a MS Paint level of sophistication).  Melissa's new Supergirl 'do?

Or a surprise guest star in the pilot, maybe.

[Trini]

Hmmm... I don't think it's been edited, but it is hard to tell what's above the collar. Looks like a man to me, though. Crewmember?

[seamusk]

Yeah, I think it's just a woven hat or something that is blocking the view.

[MarkHB]

Apparently two more characters from the pilot have been ID'd.  No idea who they are, though.

[Trini]

I was just thinking about the special effects on The Flash, and how they might handle them on this show. For that show, they use CGI characters for certain shots/stunts (basically 3-D animation). If they do something similar here, It might be slightly more complicated/costly because of Supergirl's long flowing hair and cape. So maybe we'll see less of those types of effects.

 

Related: One speculation I heard about why Supergirl is on CBS instead of CW is that CBS has more money to make the show work/look good. --Eh, plausible, but I doubt that was an important factor. CBS is probably trying to get in on the comic book TV trend, and attract a younger demographic. The CW already had 3 DC comic shows, and was planning a 4th.

[Kromm]

While the pilot footage/trailer seems relatively light in tone, I do think it's also clear that we're gonna get some fairly dark stuff too.

 

Firstly, the whole DEO angle skews potentially very dark just by it's nature.  They have to send her against alien killers, or even flip in around (as happened in the comics at least once that I recall) where a perceived dangerous alien was harmless but got "defended" against, with tragedy resulting.

 

Then there's the fact that we have not one but TWO characters, Hank Henshaw and Winslow Schott, introduced as good guys who by name we know from the comics as bad guys (Cyborg Superman and Toyman).  They can't BOTH be fakeouts.  Heck, it's possible NEITHER is.  Heck, Toyman in many versions is an outright psycho, in fact.  And yes, there's even speculation about Kara's adopted sister being named Alex and her being a version of Lex Luthor.  A direction I hope they don't go, because it seems silly, but now that people have speculated on it I can fully see the writers picking the idea up and at least teasing us/playing with it enough to confuse us. 

 

That's a lotta potential dark.

[FurryFury]

I really like the organization angle. It's like SHIELD, but from a superhero's perspective, I guess? 

 

As for future villains, they don't have to go and make them 100%, no take-back, villains. I'm quite sure that, say, Caitlin Snow will never become Killer Frost for good, they'll resent the storyline via time-travel or rehabilitate her or something. So I could see something like that happening here.

 

Does Alex have any inspiration in the comics or is she a 100% new character?

[Agent Dark]

With the D.E.O. being central to this show maybe there's some hope for Director Bones, Cameron Chase or even Batwoman.  That would be sweet.

[MarkHB]

Alex is an all-new character in this show.  I, too, hope that the "Alex/Lex" thing is just a fandom fever dream.

 

If Hank Henshaw goes anywhere near his comics character, it's not going to be easy to redeem him.  OTOH, using Win Schott in the role we're seeing him in, particularly after the "he knows her secret and helped make her costume" bit, has seemed out of place to me for months.  I notice that we never heard him referred to by name in the trailer; I wonder if they reconsidered that during filming.

[FurryFury]

They've made Felicity a completely different character from the comics, haven't they? And turned Shado into a heroic character rather than a villain. They can do the same with this Toyman. 

Whatever, just don't make him a villain because Kara chooses another guy over him. I can't stand these things.

Edited May 15, 2015 by FurryFury

[revbfc]

Will Supergirl show up for crossovers with the CW shows? I know it seems unlikely on account of the networks, but it's still a DC production, right? Isn't Supergirl supposed to be part of the shared DC TV Universe?

[FurryFury]

No, it's not officially a part of the Flash/Arrow/LOT shared universe. It may happen in some way in the future, theoretically, but right now, they are set in different worlds.

[revbfc]

No, it's not officially a part of the Flash/Arrow/LOT shared universe. It may happen in some way in the future, theoretically, but right now, they are set in different worlds.

Oh well.

[Chris24601]

My observation/spec from the Supergirl trailer is that this series, like Buffy was a generation ago, is going to be a wonderful subversion of a lot of the tropes of genre that the superhero element is being layered on top of.

Indeed, I think some of the most profound 'superhero' stories have been ones where the addition of superheroes into its midst subverts an otherwise straight telling of a genre story. For example, the entire concept of the amazing Winter Soldier was to take a Cold War era spy drama and turn it on its head by inserting the earestly uncompromising Captain America into the midst of instead of the usual world-weary cynic protagonist common to the genre.

In Supergirl's case I think it almost has to start out by playing the rom-com genre straight at the outset precisely to make the contrast with how it ultimately gets subverted by having a superheroic protagonist more profound.

She seems to starts out on the traditional successful career = fulfillment track (complaining about only getting to fetch coffee and layouts being a waste of her talents) and meets a hot mentor figure who, in a traditional rom-com would be the one who helps her learn what she needs to overcome her taskmaster boss and earn the respect she deserves in the company... but instead it turns out that she finds fulfillment by side-stepping career success entirely. That mentor is more of a guide to her heroing than corporate success and instead of rising to promenance within the company she'll probably decide that she needs the freedom of being a largely overlooked cog (with friends who can cover for her absences) in the corporate machine to be able to have the freedom she needs to do what she finds truly fulfilling.

[FurryFury]

My observation/spec from the Supergirl trailer is that this series, like Buffy was a generation ago, is going to be a wonderful subversion of a lot of the tropes of genre that the superhero element is being layered on top of.

 

Sorry, but I've seen quite a bit of  stuff by Berlanti, Kreisberg and co, and Joss Whedon, they are not. It will most likely a fun, but very formulaic and unambitious show. I'd love to be proven wrong, though, I really would.

[Trini]

I'm not too worried about the writing for this show, actually. Mainly because of Ali Adler, who I'm familiar with from Chuck. One of the things that show did often was subvert stereotypes/tropes. Also it dealt with a lot of the same issues that this show will probably tackle: secret identities, powers, living up to one's potential/destiny, and family.

 

I think it too early to label it "unambitious".

[Trini]

BTW, does anyone know where the show is/will be filmed? I'm just wondering whether I should be on the lookout for Flash and Arrow locations showing up.

[MarkHB]

I believe they're going top shelf and filming in L.A.  I know that's where the pilot was filmed (OLV had some updates when they were filming downtown), and presumably where the sets still are.

[Chris24601]

This seems like the best place to put this, but with the confirmation that they're going to be dealing with multiple realities next season over on the Flash, I think we can probably confirm that this will be how they crossover Supergirl with the CW series (if they ever do) and why there's no sign of Superman over in the CW-verse.

 

Which is good, because even if it wouldn't be starting to happen until at least season two, frankly I don't know that I'd want Supergirl crossing over that often... certainly not the degree to which it occurs with Arrow and The Flash. The power scales are just too great (you can almost suspend disbelief with Oliver in Barry's world, but when you throw in someone who can lift a bus, take a hit from a speeding semi without budging and probably fly faster than Barry can run... not to mention heat vision, supersenses and probably freeze breath, she could basically match Arrow, Flash and the entire LoT crew by herself (i.e. the "Superman Problem" whenever they make him a regular part of a team).

 

Conversely, any sort of villain who could go toe to toe with Kara would probably take the entirity of the CW-verse heroes joining forces to defeat. A back-door crossover where Kara appears to defeat the VotW and they fall through a dimensional portal only to show up over the CW-verse wouldn't be too shabby.

[Agent Dark]

Which is good, because even if it wouldn't be starting to happen until at least season two, frankly I don't know that I'd want Supergirl crossing over that often... certainly not the degree to which it occurs with Arrow and The Flash. The power scales are just too great (you can almost suspend disbelief with Oliver in Barry's world, but when you throw in someone who can lift a bus, take a hit from a speeding semi without budging and probably fly faster than Barry can run... not to mention heat vision, supersenses and probably freeze breath, she could basically match Arrow, Flash and the entire LoT crew by herself (i.e. the "Superman Problem" whenever they make him a regular part of a team).

I dunno - the Batman/Superman "World's Finest" team-ups are a staple of the comics.  There's quite often team-ups in the comics that would appear to have a huge disparity (Green Arrow/Green Lantern, Supergirl/Batgirl, Wonder Woman/Batwoman etc) but they all work great.  I mean if you can handle the Oliver Queen/Barry Allen teamup (The Flash is one of the most powerful super-heroes in the DC Universe after all, certainly in Superman's ballpark, and Oliver Queen is a guy with a bow and arrow...) I don't think Supergirl would be out of place at all.  Especially with the likes of The Atom, Firestorm, Hawkgirl and Rip Hunter being in Legends of Tomorrow.

[Chris24601]

They may be a staple, but they can also become quite contrived if they happen too often. Oliver/Barry worked because Ollie could leverage his greater experience against Barry's raw power. The movie Batman will probably work similarly with Superman since they're going with an older Bruce.

Similarly, Ollie/Hal worked in the bronze age because the premise of the 'hard-travelling heroes' had as much to do with managing social problems as punching bad guys so the vast power of the ring didn't matter so much in the resolution.

As to Barry being among the strongest DC heroes... yeah, when he's able to hit lightspeed like in the comics. TV Flash never even hit Mach Two until the finale which isn't even as fast as the muzzle velocity of some high powered rifles and easily in Kara's capabilities (what with traditionally being faster than a speeding bullet and all).

To be clear, I'm not saying crossovers shouldn't happen... far from it... just that the differences in power levels between Kara and the rest of DCTVU characters and how to keep her from just solving the problem on her own is something that needs to be considered each time it happens. In that respect, the fact that they're likely on different Earths mitigates a lot of the 'why don't they just call up Supergirl?' issues that Ollie and Barry have due to being in the same universe... i.e. 'why didn't Ollie just call up Barry to take care of the League in the first place?'

As a random aside... If there were on the same Earth a lot of the conceits of the Arrow/Flash-verse basically fall apart because Superman's been publically active since at least four years prior to the Queen's Gambit going down and nearly as long (if not as long) as Eobard's been impersonating Dr. Wells... yet the possibility of beings with superhuman abilities is utterly unheard of until the STARLabs accident.

[Trini]

 

As a random aside... If there were on the same Earth a lot of the conceits of the Arrow/Flash-verse basically fall apart because Superman's been publically active since at least four years prior to the Queen's Gambit going down and nearly as long (if not as long) as Eobard's been impersonating Dr. Wells... yet the possibility of beings with superhuman abilities is utterly unheard of until the STARLabs accident.

 

Yeah, I was thinking about that the other day. I estimate Superman has been in operation for at least 12 years, from the trailer. On the other hand, he's an alien, so it's possible meta-human powers are recent and new. But yeah, the idea of superpowers in general shouldn't be new (if the universes are the same).

[Chris24601]

Yeah... Based on the setup for Supergirl with the DEO monitoring for alien threats, you'd think the first assumption when metahumans first showed up would be 'unknown aliens' and not transformed humans.

The known backstory just from the Supergirl trailer just cannot co-exist with what we've seen of the CW-verse.

Maybe if Superman had been acting in secret all this time, the DEO being so secret even ARGUS isn't aware of it and Supergirl is the one who breaks the Masquerade in the premiere they could squeeze it into the CW-verse, but with a Pulitzer-winning photo of Superman out there in the public that just doesn't work... people in the Supergirl-verse know Superman exists and seem to have for quite some time (its probably the reason Cat DID go with 'Girl' over 'Woman'... because 'Girl' is one syllable just like 'Man').

I suppose it could also work if Superman disappeared a significant number of years ago (5+ or more) and the existance of other aliens was kept secret... but Winn's 'tell your cousin I said so... wait, never never do that' seems to imply a belief that Superman is still around to be told such a thing. So, again it really only works if its a Parallel Earth.

[BkWurm1]

I think if Supergirl does as well as I expect it to and if LoT also hits it's stride, they would be silly not to do an eventual crossover.  I can't quite see them bringing over Supergirl for a visit to the Flash or Arrow universe but I could see them starting an episode on one of the CW shows (or to be very ambitious, let the storyline progress through all three shows) and then end up in Supergirl's Earth to finish it. 

 

It could really work as a stand alone episode with Supergirl viewers, just another weekly adventure but it come with so much extra hype and would let them really do a mini Justice League. 

 

The sad part for me is only the most recognizable of named masks would make it into an event like that which would probably mean the Flash, Arrow and Black Canary and not to beat a dead horse, it's just that I would hate for BC to be used as a representation of the quality of the characters portrayed in the CW's shows.  If we are lucky Hawkgirl will be a bit hit and then she and Kara can bond over the use of "girl" in their moniker.    

[Trini]

Anyone else concerned about how they'll handle villains on this show? There are a few things that might make things more complicated for Supergirl:

• Supergirl doesn't really have a main antagonist (Superman/Luthor; Batman/Joker; etc.) or an established 'rogues gallery'.
• They have to be careful not to use the same villains that Flash, Arrow, and Legends of Tomorrow have used/will use. (Or do they?)
• They probably can't use any 'Superman-level' villains; mainly because the question will be "Why doesn't Superman show up?"
• I can't remember where, but Berlanti is on record saying that superheroes should have super threats -- as in Kara can't just be foiling bank heists, or saving derailed trains every week.

 

So will we be getting many villains made specifically for the show? (In contrast to The Flash, where everyone has a comic counterpart.) Or maybe just a lot of obscure DC bad guys?

[Kromm]

Anyone else concerned about how they'll handle villains on this show? There are a few things that might make things more complicated for Supergirl:

• Supergirl doesn't really have a main antagonist (Superman/Luthor; Batman/Joker; etc.) or an established 'rogues gallery'.
• They have to be careful not to use the same villains that Flash, Arrow, and Legends of Tomorrow have used/will use. (Or do they?)
• They probably can't use any 'Superman-level' villains; mainly because the question will be "Why doesn't Superman show up?"
• I can't remember where, but Berlanti is on record saying that superheroes should have super threats -- as in Kara can't just be foiling bank heists, or saving derailed trains every week.

 

So will we be getting many villains made specifically for the show? (In contrast to The Flash, where everyone has a comic counterpart.) Or maybe just a lot of obscure DC bad guys?

I think we already have a sense of where the villains are coming from, if you spoil yourself and go watch the Pilot.  

 

Actually I think even the trailers reveal enough that I can pussyfoot around specifics and state that they're alien threats.  We know this from the DEO and the stuff said in the trailer about that.  DC does have a decent sized stable of alien antagonists, and the specific mechanism the show uses (which IS something I won't spoil) allows a good number of them to appear, but yes, they can't be the big guns Supey himself fights, like Darkseid (or in fact ANY of the New Gods/Apokolips crowd probably, short of them being totally reinvented), Mongul, or any of the characters who are MAIN Green Lantern antagonists--although I'm betting the minor ones are going to be farmed quite a bit.  So you've got those lesser Lantern villains (anyone without a power ring of some color in their origin, I'd say), you've maybe got some toss-away villains from the Adam Strange & Thanagar stories (nobody with wings though), stuff recycled and re-purposed (and time transposed) from the Legion of Super-Heroes stories, characters Lobo beat up, etc.