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Supergirl Speculation


Meredith Quill
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Another point in the Henshaw = Martian Manhunter theory's favor is that in the rebooted DCU the Manhunter was heavily involved with Stormwatch for the first year (before its poor sales got it cancelled and retconned from continuity by a time-travel incident).

For those who don't know, in the DCU reboot Stormwatch was a secret organization tasked with monitoring and dealing with superhuman threats.

So I could definitely see them hybridizing things to get us a Hank Henshaw who is actually just a cover created by the alien Manhunter particularly if they incorporate some of the Smallville elements such as being an intergalactic peacekeeper and ally of Jor-El.

Maybe he was one of the guards Fort Rozz who survived and has created this identity to help him round the criminals who escaped.

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I doubt anyone, even responsible for the really fucked up current DCU, cares much about Stormwatch, but it might have been the germ that suggested this, yes.

 

From the beginning the problem they had with the DEO is that the comic book DEO head, "Mister Bones", is just a totally mega-stupid character to try and carry over. Heck, even Sarge Steele, who they used for the Department of Metahuman Affairs version of the DEO is kind of silly. The other logical candidate from DCU-dom to have running it might have been Amanda Waller, but she's REALLY been majorly "taken" by various other versions, so she couldn't be used. 

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Oh, I didn't figure anyone cared about Stormwatch itself. I basically meant it might have been the germ of the idea that might have morphed into Martian Manhunter secretly running the DEO under the guise of Hank Henshaw. Its just the sort of thing I'd expect from the same team that gave us Arrow and Flash where they also like to play with continuity nods and expectations.

 

Probably spoiler-ish but as a perfect example of the Supergirl team playing with expectations

Winn was initially presumed to be the future Toyman himself, but then they twist our expectations by making the real Toyman his father.

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When Henshaw went all red-eyed while Supergirl was lying in the recharger, it made me wonder if maybe he was Eradicator, which would make him a weird double-reference to Reign of the Supermen, but that idea seems a little too fanboy-Easter-eggy for network TV.

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Occam's Razor says that Hank Henshaw is the same Hank Henshaw as in the Reign of the Supermen storyline.

Except ol' Occam already has to deal with the fact that Reign of the Supermen Henshaw was an ex-astronaut impersonating Superman, and not head of the DEO. 

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I'm going to put this out there:  Winn's father is/was in prison in Central City.  That lets them share that part of the universe without needing to do crossovers.

 

Have we seen Hank Henshaw around fire yet?  That was traditionally one of Martian Manhunter's fears/weaknesses.  That Hank is at least partially good was shown by putting Kara in the tanning bed.  She should get one of those for the apartment.

 

 

I'd like to see them do Bizarro Supergirl at some point

 

Looks like 

next week we'll get Red Krytonite Kara, which is not quite the same, but close.  It looks like they're going the same route as Smallville with the Red Kryptonite. Or the promos are a fake-out.  Either way,

next week looks really interesting. 

Edited by marketdoctor
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This is pure speculation but if Cat's son is played by Blake Jenner, he's very tall and broad for being Cat's son. From even before he was cast I thought he would be perfect for Superman, could he be Superman's son? Cat worked at the Daily Planet, but has Superman been on earth that long?

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This is pure speculation but if Cat's son is played by Blake Jenner, he's very tall and broad for being Cat's son. From even before he was cast I thought he would be perfect for Superman, could he be Superman's son? Cat worked at the Daily Planet, but has Superman been on earth that long?

 

He's been on Earth for at least 36 years -- remember that he was sent to Earth as an infant at the same time as Kara, only she got waylaid by a detour into the Phantom Zone that lasted 24 years in normal time, which is why she was still biologically only 12 when she arrived on Earth but he by that time had grown into a 24-year-old man.  When we picked up with Kara's story in the pilot, twelve more years had passed since her arrival on earth, so she's now biologically 24 and he's both biologically and chronologically around 36. Cat would probably be around Kara's actual chronological age (48), so assuming that she had Adam in her early 20s, it's technically possible that 18- or 19-year-old Kal could have been his father.  It's just not too likely.

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Wait, where did they say how long Kara was in the Phantom Zone? I know by definition it must have been decades for Clark to grow up into a man, But I don't remember an actual figure being put on it.

They mention it in the first episode but I don't think they explicitly say that Superman's 36. They let you know that Clark is an infant when they send him from Krypton and Kara's 12/13. They then say she was in the Phantom Zone for 24 years and then 12 more years have passed to where the story begins.

Do Kryptonians age slower than humans?

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Wait, where did they say how long Kara was in the Phantom Zone? I know by definition it must have been decades for Clark to grow up into a man, But I don't remember an actual figure being put on it.

 

I believe it was stated in the pilot that she was there for 24 years.  However, even without that, simple math reveals the timeline and tells how old they both are.  He was an infant, and she was 12 when they left Krypton.  He was still an infant when he arrived on Earth, and by the time she arrived on Earth, he had already grown to adulthood and had been functioning as Superman for several years, while she was still biologically 12.  Therefore, she had to have spent at least 20-25 years in the Phantom Zone before finally arriving on Earth, which would make her chronologically 32-37 at that time.

 

Now, add to that the 12 years that Kara spent hiding in plain sight before finally coming out as Supergirl at the age of 24.  Kal would also be 12 years older, so if he was around 24-25 when Kara arrived on Earth, he'd now be 36-37, and she would chronologically be 44-49.

Edited by legaleagle53
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Wait, where did they say how long Kara was in the Phantom Zone? I know by definition it must have been decades for Clark to grow up into a man, But I don't remember an actual figure being put on it.

In the pilot, Kara stated that 24 years past while she was in the Phantom Zone... presuming Kal-El was about a year old when Krypton exploded that'd put him at right around the traditional 25 years of age when Superman started his superhero career while his present 36-37 is just a bit past the furthest they've ever gone with Superman in regular continuity without there being a reboot.

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Do Kryptonians age slower than humans?

 

Different treatments of future Superman in the comics have him aging very little or even not at all after he gets to the 30-something/40something that he is in the mainstream comics.

 

For instance, Dark Knight has him pretty much the same after decades.

 

DC had an event called One Million set in the 853rd century with the original Superman having lived all the time between now and then, in part because he literally was hanging out in the Sun. (at least, that's what I think the deal was. Didn't read it. Sounded stupid. Here's a link to the Wikipedia article about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_One_Million)

In the miniseries Red Son, the premise of which is "what if baby Kal-El landed in the Soviet Union shortly after the Russian Revolution?" Kal-El lives for centuries as well. 

 

Kingdom Come has him aging somewhat. 

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Yeah, DC is all over the place with that. It wouldn't be right to say he ages "slower" since his progression from baby to child to adult seems exactly on pace with the humans he lives among. But it is probably fair to say that most versions do have his aging either stop, or slow down LATER--although it's oddly arbitrary that would happen in his 30s or sometimes 40s rather than at puberty or the end of his teens or some other age that makes more biological sense (if not narrative sense).

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Yeah, DC is all over the place with that. It wouldn't be right to say he ages "slower" since his progression from baby to child to adult seems exactly on pace with the humans he lives among. But it is probably fair to say that most versions do have his aging either stop, or slow down LATER--although it's oddly arbitrary that would happen in his 30s or sometimes 40s rather than at puberty or the end of his teens or some other age that makes more biological sense (if not narrative sense).

 

 

I wish I could remember where I saw this, but there was a fanwank from someone at DC that Superman grew up very quickly when he was a kid because Martha and Jonathan Kent kept him indoors and away from the sun as much as they could to prevent the government from finding out his powers. Once he grew up and started flying around in the sunlight, his aging process slowed down. The fanwank went on to say something like "Think of it! We could have had an adorable five year old and his puppy saving the world every day if only those grownups hadn't interfered!" 

 

I'm misquoting, I'm certain, and this wasn't comics canon, to be clear, just someone's speculation in an interview.

 

ETA: I think the quote was more on the lines of "those meddling grownups!" Or something like that.

Edited by quarks
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So new promo;

Glad that Kara finds out sooner rather than later about MM.

Is that JimmyJames getting beat up by Max Lord?? No!

 

I hope they don't chicken out of Cat knowing Kara's secret identity. Why even introduce that and then take it away? Especially when I'm fairly certain that they will eventually let her in on the secret permanently anyway. (Second season?)

 

I would have preferred Cat being kept out of the loop a little longer (until the end of this season, maybe), but if they have her figure out the secret, they should just go with it.

I liked the scene in the promo with her reaction - "You're from MARS?!"

 

I also hope they don't chicken out of Cat knowing Kara is Supergirl. I was getting annoyed with her not knowing, so I'm glad they had the reveal sooner rather than later - especially with how obvious it was, and how intelligent Cat is supposed to be - so I would be very unhappy to have them return to the status quo.

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I liked the scene in the promo with her reaction - "You're from MARS?!"

 

I also hope they don't chicken out of Cat knowing Kara is Supergirl. I was getting annoyed with her not knowing, so I'm glad they had the reveal sooner rather than later - especially with how obvious it was, and how intelligent Cat is supposed to be - so I would be very unhappy to have them return to the status quo.

"Beyond a shadow of a doubt you are Supergirl" would seem like a lock if there wasn't an annoying TV tradition of showing definitive statements like that just to explode them.  Actually seeing that in a promo gave me a bad feeling, not a good one, because if they just went with it, then why make a big deal of it in a promo?

And getting confirmation that she learns the secret of a shapechanger almost seems to lock it up for me. MM is going to disguise himself as Supergirl while Kara stands next to Cat. I can't see them NOT doing this given how they've timed this reveal to her.

Honestly )and I've said this elsewhere) my one (likely) vain hope would be for Cat to "buy" that Kara isn't Supergirl to her face, but for us to have some reveal that she somehow sees through this and isn't going to admit she does.

Unlikely though. These writers aren't sneaky enough to do that. I think we're just getting the same old cliche as when Superman pulled out Superman robots to fool people (or I think he himself has used Martian Manhunter to do this at least a few times too).

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...

Unlikely though. These writers aren't sneaky enough to do that. I think we're just getting the same old cliche as when Superman pulled out Superman robots to fool people (or I think he himself has used Martian Manhunter to do this at least a few times too).

 

Heh, and on Lois & Clark they used a hologram.

But seriously, taking back Cat knowing would be lame. LAME, show.

Edited by Trini
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I am disappointed in the writers for duping Cat with MM, but more disappointed with myself for not figuring out that was what they were going to do. Especially since MM and Superman have pulled off this in the comics, and the non-Kara Supergirl and Superman have also.

Well, to be fair, we don't know for sure yet if that's the route they're going.

 

It probably is, but I'm still holding out hope that they don't.

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Really, the big "crisis" of Cat knowing is that Cat could credibly reveal Kara's identity to the world if she so chose.

I think they could credibly defuse that situation without taking Cat's knowledge by having MM appear as Supergirl with Kara present in some public scenario so that if Cat ever were to try and reveal Kara's identity all some competitor would have to do is pull up archived footage of Kara and Supergirl in the same place at the same time.

Even better for the scenario would be if its MM making the decision without consulting Kara because he is less trusting than Kara is. That would let Kara keep the mentor relationship with Cat without having the integrity of it compromised.

Alternately, Cat convinces Kara that she's trustworthy only for MM to wipe Cat's memories without consulting Kara simply because he thinks its a security risk (possibly even with mental blocks that keep Cat from seeing Kara as Supergirl). This keeps Kara unambiguously good since its not what she wanted, sets up some nice ethical conflict between MM and Kara (getting into Identity Crisis territory) while putting the status quo back in place (for now) with Kara unwilling to just reveal it to Cat again because MM would just wipe it again and messing too much with someone's mind can't be good for their health.

In such a case the point of the "Cat Knows" scene was to show the audience what could have been as contrast to how things will go now that MM has involved himself and probably made things worse in the long run.

So there are a couple of ways I could see them playing with the trope that aren't just the typical 'superdickery' that we saw in Silver Age comics.

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I don't think that Cat should know, either I'm supposed to buy that Cat Grant of all people is much smarter than Perry White and Lois Lane or I'm supposed to believe that Kara is so much worse at keeping her ID hidden than Clark that she got figured out in a couple of months by a person who care barely be bothered to say her name correctly? Neither of those works for me.

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I don't think that Cat should know, either I'm supposed to buy that Cat Grant of all people is much smarter than Perry White and Lois Lane or I'm supposed to believe that Kara is so much worse at keeping her ID hidden than Clark that she got figured out in a couple of months by a person who care barely be bothered to say her name correctly? Neither of those works for me.

Taking away Cat's memory or somehow convincing her otherwise (e.g. by having MM and Kara/SG together) won't really eliminate any of those options though. And this incarnation of Cat Grant is different from previous versions, so I'm ok with her being smart enough to figure it out.

 

I think that since they already "went there", so to speak, to then retract it is just manufactured drama and feels like a waste of time.

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I've never read the comics, I barely remember the Superman movies, so I'm mostly going from Lois & Clark. But haven't they involved Cat Grant in Supergirl's adventures more than Perry White was with Superman, particularly with the Livewire episode, but overall, Cat seems to be nearer the action. Plus they set it in the present, Supergirl's image is everywhere, whereas there were only a few blurry pictures of Superman.

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I don't think that Cat should know, either I'm supposed to buy that Cat Grant of all people is much smarter than Perry White and Lois Lane or I'm supposed to believe that Kara is so much worse at keeping her ID hidden than Clark that she got figured out in a couple of months by a person who care barely be bothered to say her name correctly? Neither of those works for me.

Kara and Team Supergirl are so much worse than any incarnation of grown-up Superman at keeping a secret ID. (Smallville basically eventually had every regular on the show figure out Clark's secret, but then he wasn't hiding behind the glasses and even then it took a pretty long while)

 

Literally every episode she and/or Team Supergirl talk about Supergirly things in the newsroom and/or some other public setting. 

 

And in this specific instance, Cat had contextual clues that Perry and Lois and the rest didn't -- Kara getting sick for the first time at the same time Supergirl disappeared, plus Kara claiming to hear something that wasn't possible with human hearing are two big clues that Superman never left.

Edited by Chicago Redshirt
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I would be behind Cat knowing the secret now that she's figured it out if in the promo she hadn't just loudly and in the middle of a crowded office outed Kara's Supergirl identity as if it didn't matter if everyone knew.

 

I know Jimmy and Winn reference it occasionally but a. it's usually in a kind of code and b. I get mad at them too if they don't do it sotto voce.

Edited by statsgirl
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Ack. Not liking how foolish they'll have to make Cat look to undo this. Even with a shape changer involved.

 

No kidding.  I'm trying to keep an open mind until after I've seen tonight's episode, but they're not making it any easier for me to do so.

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It seems like a crime to have Melissa and Jeremy on a show without having them sing. Can't we send them to a karaoke bar or something. Laura's there too of course and throw in and Blake too. And it would be quite easy to see Kara falling for Winn after he sang a song for her.

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It seems like a crime to have Melissa and Jeremy on a show without having them sing. Can't we send them to a karaoke bar or something. Laura's there too of course and throw in and Blake too. And it would be quite easy to see Kara falling for Winn after he sang a song for her.

 

Somehow, I can't quite see Astra singing with Kara in a karaoke bar, much less hanging out with humans in one.

Edited by legaleagle53
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This has been brought up in the Season 2 Wishlist topic too, but the introduction of Project Cadmus almost certainly points to Conner Kent, aka "Superboy".  The one who isn't a younger version of Kal-El, but a clone made from some of his stolen DNA by... Project Cadmus.

 

It's unlikely that this version would have the convoluted backstory requiring Lex Luthor to be his half-DNA parent. If I had to make a giant leap of a guess I'd say that it's far more likely that if he's not a full Kryptonian, that if he's still a hybrid I mean, that Jeremiah Danvers is his human "parent". Danvers being captured and held by Cadmus to work on this hybrid, and him using his own DNA for the process. Thus making THIS Superboy a sort-of sibling to Kara and allowing the plot development of her eventually taking him in as a kind of sibling after the CADMUS storyline is complete. 

 

During that storyline I'm sure we'll be dealing with stuff like mind control and Superboy being an antagonist first. It will be a little repetitive of the Bizarro storyline, frankly, but it seems to be the most likely approach.

 

Oh... even more speculative, since he'd genetically be a Danvers.... instead of being "Connor Kent" in his human identity, he'd be "Connor Danvers" and be peddled as some long-lost brother who disappeared and was recovered. And the logical place to establish him (it depends on the age of the character though--as a vat grown clone he could be any age) would be living with Alex, as his caretaker.  Please note I also think this means Jeremiah is pushing up daisies (again) by the end of the Cadmus storyline, however (because with both Jeremiah and Eliza around I don't see how "Connor" would be involved in that many cities in National City--he'd be back with them instead).

Edited by Kromm
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Maybe they're going to let Dean Cain relive a little of his glory days as Superman and make HIM a variation of Connor? He could be melded with Kryptonian or even Martian DNA and turned into a super weapon. So Kara has to fight her adoptive father, and/or J'onn has to fight the man whose daughters he swore to protect.

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  I agree that Connor-Superboy is possible next season (if there is one), but he's probably not in the pod (unless he's being used in some conspiracy to make SG *think* he's a normal Kryptonian for some reason).

  My main candidates for pod occupant, from least to most likely:

  3: Super-pets!  There's room for a dog, a cat, and a monkey in there (and yes, I know that Streaky wasn't originally Kryptonian).  But that doesn't seem to match Kara's reaction; plus as others have mentioned, the most likely current source of superpowered animals would be Cadmus, not Krypton.

  2: Lar "Mon-El" Gand!  Possibly gender-swapped.  There's already precedent for TV-Kara getting Comic-Kal's plots, and we saw a Legion of Super-Heroes flight ring on display in the Fortress.  If they keep him male*, and drop the bit about mistaking him for an "El" relative, then he could be both a similar-age peer and a (doomed) love interest.
  *We have Kara's word for it that she's not gay, and her behavior supports it.  Bi, while technically possible, seems unlikely.

  1: Baby Kal-El!  But then who's been flying around in those red boots all these years?  Good question!  Is it a time-travel thing, or has Clark been an imposter all this time?  Either way, an excuse to let Kara and Kal interact on-screen some more without showing Superman; and if Clark *is* an imposter, it would be a way to get him off of the show entirely (and might better explain his susceptibility to Myriad).

(I would have put Kara "Power Girl" Zor-L on the list if there had been any sign of interdimensional weirdness in the episode, or if there was some excuse for rift-forming like Fort Rozz blowing up or being nuked.  But there wasn't.  Plus, there's been some loose talk about Power Girl maybe showing up in the Flarrowverse.)

Edited by ACW
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So lets ramp up the Season 2 spec. now that we know there will be a Season 2, albeit a cheaper made one.

I wonder if they try to move the show in setting as well as in fact. Do they try and pretend Vancouver IS California, or do they contrive a reason for the whole cast to be uprooted to another DC city?  Remember, there's no inherent Supergirl "city" in the DCU. Metropolis is actually the closest to one, since they often have her co-exist with Superman. There IS an inherent Supergirl TOWN, named Midvale, so I suppose they could reinvent it as a city. Usually it's a suburb of Metropolis, but you can just wank and say it's now in the Pacific Northwest.

The CatCo people are the harder ones to move, since the DEO seems like it's location could be fluid (although moving the prisoners might be a no-go--perhaps they just start insisting that the DEO has multiple branches and we'd only seen one before now). Business DO move, but media empires are a bit tougher to uproot, so perhaps they could contrive something like CatCo going bankrupt, Winn coming to work at the DEO (that's ready made), ditching Jimmy's useless ass, and Cat having to get a paying media job at a paper in this new city. 

Oh, Max is an interesting situation. Then again I can easily see him being obsessed enough with Supergirl to follow her if she moves operations to another place. Unlike Catco, it's easier to believe a tech company could simply move, or already has branches lots of places.

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Actually did they actually even say explicitly that the Danvers live in California? We know they live on the coast because we see the Ocean from their house, I think. But did it seem sub-tropical? I forget. If not, say it was always in lets say... Oregon... so if Supergirl's new home is supposed to be Pacific Northwest then you can use that home setting more.

Not that Vancouver and Washington and Oregon all look exactly alike but it can be faked easier than trying to still pretend this is all Southern California, like it was before. 

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Dang. There's going to be a whole lot more green screen and interior settings. Night shoots. The thing is, they've used so many of the same sets and locations between the other 3 DCTV shows; it's going to be weird to see them show up on Supergirl in/as "National City."

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I guess, with this new move to Vancouver, they could esentially change some things. I don't know if they'll be able to pretend it's still California, or whatever National City was supposed to be, but I also don't imagine they'd have the characters move to Nutional City. They might have to, though, or they might have to address the difference in location as a meta thing in the premiere. I don't mind the suggestion of them possibly moving to another city, like Metropolis (they can just say that Superman is on another planet and is stuck there...or something) or they move universes to allow crossovers with the other DC shows (Flash, Arrow, Legends).

If Calista decides to dial back her appearances because she doesn't want to relocate to Vancouver (maybe she'll compromise by shooting in Vancouver three times a week), maybe she'll end up losing her company and she finds other work elsewhere. This would work well if they do move cities. 

I definitely think Winn becoming a DEO agent needs to happen. It's just too good to not have happen for me. 

I think that they will have more night shoots, only because the other DC shows do it so often.

I think Max will stick around, no matter what happens. Part of me would rather he replaced Jimmy as a regular, but I know that's only a dream. I think Peter Facinelli has too much chemistry with the cast to be let go that easily, and even in just a recurring status, I don't see them letting go of such a shady character this easily. 

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12 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

... I figure we'll get one or two new characters, so as long as they're not boring as hell, I'll be ok. I wouldn't mind having females instead of males, as I love the female bonding. Maybe have Kara make a female friend at the DEO or CatCo (or somewhere else!). Also, maybe give Alex a friend outside of the DEO. That would be nice.

Please, please Supergirl, please do not turn into The Flash when it comes to female characters. You've done females well in the first season. Do NOT succumb to whatever the hell is wrong with The Flash when it comes to females. Just...stay you. I can't help but remember the crossover episode, when Barry was with Kara and they were fighting Livewire and Silver Banshee and he actually said that they'll settle this like women. Just...don't screw it up. 

I think as long as the producers/writers stay the same, we should be okay... but will the move affect that part of the show? I really hope not.

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4 hours ago, Kromm said:

The CatCo people are the harder ones to move, since the DEO seems like it's location could be fluid (although moving the prisoners might be a no-go--perhaps they just start insisting that the DEO has multiple branches and we'd only seen one before now). Business DO move, but media empires are a bit tougher to uproot, so perhaps they could contrive something like CatCo going bankrupt, Winn coming to work at the DEO (that's ready made), ditching Jimmy's useless ass, and Cat having to get a paying media job at a paper in this new city. 

Well, Cat did promote Kara to an unnamed position in the season finale.  She could easily make her part of the editorial staff at a small startup media business in another city.

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think that they will have more night shoots, only because the other DC shows do it so often.

If MoS and BvS have taught us anything, it's that Kryptonians don't work very well in the dark.

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It just struck me how much time this show spent in a locale that they just won't have in BC: the desert.  It also made me realize that, with what I think are rare exceptions, the CW shows don't really get out of the city much.  Hopefully Supergirl won't lose that, even if it isn't the desert.

And, of course, hopefully we don't lose Calista; she's done so much more with Cat than I ever expected.

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4 hours ago, Kromm said:

Actually did they actually even say explicitly that the Danvers live in California? We know they live on the coast because we see the Ocean from their house, I think. But did it seem sub-tropical? I forget. If not, say it was always in lets say... Oregon... so if Supergirl's new home is supposed to be Pacific Northwest then you can use that home setting more.

Not that Vancouver and Washington and Oregon all look exactly alike but it can be faked easier than trying to still pretend this is all Southern California, like it was before. 

The problem is that anyone who recognizes downtown L.A. (especially at night) will know that it's been playing the part of National City.  I've been there many times, and I immediately recognized it the first time I saw Kara patrolling the city at night.  So it won't do to claim that Vancouver is now National City and that the Danverses have always lived in the Pacific Northwest.  You could say that that's where Dr. Danvers lives now, but not when Kara and Alex were growing up.

Besides, National City has palm trees, which definitely don't grow in the Pacific Northwest.

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