Chit-Chat: The Feels

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

Biden and Harris both reached out to Trump with concern and sympathy after the attempt.  Does anyone think for one minute Trump  would have done the same if the positions had been reversed?  I don't.

He would have said  they got what they deserved.  I mean he didn't care his own VP Mike Pence was targeted to be hung on January 6th.  

[Bookish Jen]

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

The right always reacts with disbelief and indignation when anyone does any sort of fuck you to them. Remember the woman riding her bike who flipped the bird to Trump's motorcade during his first term?  They acted like she had committed treason.

But participating in an insurrection is just a strolling tour through the Capitol.

I guess they can dish it out, but they can't take it. I've had a lot of them call me horrible names and accuse me of horrible things (one just called me a pedophile) on social media, but if I just disagree with them or agree with someone who disagrees with them, they get all huffy and claim they are being persecuted. It's crazy.

I was just thinking that the upcoming inauguration is on MLK, Jr day (oh, the irony). If Kamala Harris would have won, I would have watched the swearing in while wearing my Chucks and pearls and enjoying a glass or two of prosecco. But because Cheeto Mussolini is being sworn in that day, I refuse to watch it. I'm going to look for volunteer opportunities that day. I've been wanting to get back into volunteering for some time now.

[peacheslatour]

8 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

I guess they can dish it out, but they can't take it. I've had a lot of them call me horrible names and accuse me of horrible things (one just called me a pedophile) on social media, but if I just disagree with them or agree with someone who disagrees with them, they get all huffy and claim they are being persecuted. It's crazy.

I was just thinking that the upcoming inauguration is on MLK, Jr day (oh, the irony). If Kamala Harris would have won, I would have watched the swearing in while wearing my Chucks and pearls and enjoying a glass or two of prosecco. But because Cheeto Mussolini is being sworn in that day, I refuse to watch it. I'm going to look for volunteer opportunities that day. I've been wanting to get back into volunteering for some time now.

Good for you. The best way to deal with the despair many of us are feeling is to do something positive for our communities.

[EtheltoTillie]

41 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

 Cheeto Mussolini

Good one!  I hadn't heard this epithet before. 

[anony.miss]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

he makes his supporters so angry at everything and everyone, they just have to shoot someone, even if it's Dear Leader.

So true - the crowds for Harris were full of hope and patriotic joy, whereas Trump's crowds were dripping with rage and hate, cheering on Trump's deeply violent rhetoric.  He's spent every moment of his years in office whipping up millions of his fringe followers (MAGA, QAnoners, anti-sciencers,  anti #metoo bros, etc) into thinking they have a right to be furious, just because they're unhappy with what they've made of themselves and their lives.  Trump's been telling them they're not responsible for anything, it's all been done to them.  That's a dangerous political tool - treating voters like cult members, not citizens - and with two Trumpers having already tried to kill him, I wouldn't be suprised if there's another January 6th. Another violent attack on democracy,  fueled by Trumpers feeling betrayed he's slapping tariffs on their trucks, gas, food and vid games, while also not making good on destroying "the enemy within" - except this time they'll be carrying a noose meant for him.

Hopefully we'll be spared the worst of Trump's political karma  - he may deserve to reap what he's sown,  but the 74 million people who voted for decency and democracy do not.

Edited Saturday at 07:57 PM by anony.miss

[Makai]

Trump is now threatening BRICS countries (which includes Russia, China and India) with an 100% tariff which has made me decide to shift my spending priorities a little in preparation. I’m curious what everyone is doing in advance of the inauguration to prepare for what is likely to come. Any suggestions? 

Edited Saturday at 07:57 PM by Makai

[Dimity]

What is the benefit of tariffs?  I guess it's to encourage people to "buy American" but surely that only works for products that are actually made in the US from components also made in the US?

[Eri]

On 11/28/2024 at 8:17 PM, anony.miss said:

Four more years of this vicious, stupid shit, four more years of his boundless ignorance and bitter hatred - all vomited up on the regular.

The fact that he's still complaining this much even after winning the election, tells me that he's scared so I take it as a good sign.

I'm curious, does anyone have any right leaning friends or family who are genuinely happy about the election? I don't know any personally but I get the feeling that folks were already miserable to begin with because I don't see any joy anywhere after all this.

[Makai]

Just now, Dimity said:

What is the benefit of tariffs?  I guess it's to encourage people to "buy American" but surely that only works for products that are actually made in the US from components also made in the US?

The greatest benefit is that they generate revenue for the country. They can also be used to protect certain struggling industries from being undercut but foreign imports. Low percentage tariffs or selective tariffs can be used really effectively.

From people I’ve seen who support Trump’s tariff policy (those who do actually understand what they are) think that it will lead to more people buying American made products and force companies to return the production process in the US. But that is extremely unrealistic and borderline impossible in most cases. 

[bluegirl147]

17 minutes ago, Dimity said:

What is the benefit of tariffs?  I guess it's to encourage people to "buy American" but surely that only works for products that are actually made in the US from components also made in the US?

According to Trump the countries he places the tariffs on will right the US checks.  Which is not true.  It amazes me nobody has been able to get him to understand it's American consumers that will end up paying tne tariffs.   Companies importing the goods will raise their prices. Walmart and others have already confirmed this.  

 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Makai said:

From people I’ve seen who support Trump’s tariff policy (those who do actually understand what they are) think that it will lead to more people buying American made products and force companies to return the production process in the US. But that is extremely unrealistic and borderline impossible in most cases. 

The single biggest expense for any corporation is manpower. It's not just salaries, but also benefits and payroll taxes. This is why so many companies left the US and opened up manufacturing plants in Mexico, India, China, etc. In those countries, the workers make peanuts compared to what the company would have to pay an American. This is also before factoring in things like environmental laws and local level building laws. Companies who tried to shut down a factory in Mexico or India and open up in Ohio literally cannot afford to do so.

Then you add in the typical American consumer who does not want to pay for something made in America. There's a reason why Hanes is no longer making tee shirts in Winston-Salem, NC from cotton grown in the state or in another southern state. Just one plain white tee would cost close to $20 instead of being able to get a 5 pack for the same price. I'm using Hanes as an example because they are a fairly ethical company who do pay their employees a living wage in whatever country the clothing is manufactured in, and they do care about the environment.

The only way for a company to sell goods marked "Made in the USA" for the prices American consumers are conditioned for is for them to use prison labor. Also the only way for crops to get picked, and meat to get processed if Trump does follow through on deporting millions.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 

The only way for a company to sell goods marked "Made in the USA" for the prices American consumers are conditioned for is for them to use prison labor. Also the only way for crops to get picked, and meat to get processed if Trump does follow through on deporting millions.

Put me in the camp of people who believe all these "deportees" he wants to round up will in fact be used as prison labor.  Trump and the people he surrounds himself with would have no problem turning undocumented immigrants into what would essentially be slave labor.

[Makai]

31 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

According to Trump the countries he places the tariffs on will right the US checks.  Which is not true.  It amazes me nobody has been able to get him to understand it's American consumers that will end up paying tne tariffs.   Companies importing the goods will raise their prices. Walmart and others have already confirmed this.  

 

Oh, I think he knows perfectly well who pays the tariff but he also knows that most Americans don’t. Many of his expressed policies are carefully worded to deceive. Like when he announced that he would eliminate taxes on overtime. He just neglected to mention that he also wants to change how working hours are accumulated in a way that would allow companies to effectively eliminate overtime altogether. 

Many people just heard they would make more money and have no clue that Trump already lowered the overtime exemption salary levels and that a judge favorable to him blocked Biden’s attempt to make more people eligible for overtime just after the election. 

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

The single biggest expense for any corporation is manpower. It's not just salaries, but also benefits and payroll taxes. This is why so many companies left the US and opened up manufacturing plants in Mexico, India, China, etc. In those countries, the workers make peanuts compared to what the company would have to pay an American. This is also before factoring in things like environmental laws and local level building laws. Companies who tried to shut down a factory in Mexico or India and open up in Ohio literally cannot afford to do so.

Then you add in the typical American consumer who does not want to pay for something made in America. There's a reason why Hanes is no longer making tee shirts in Winston-Salem, NC from cotton grown in the state or in another southern state. Just one plain white tee would cost close to $20 instead of being able to get a 5 pack for the same price. I'm using Hanes as an example because they are a fairly ethical company who do pay their employees a living wage in whatever country the clothing is manufactured in, and they do care about the environment.

The only way for a company to sell goods marked "Made in the USA" for the prices American consumers are conditioned for is for them to use prison labor. Also the only way for crops to get picked, and meat to get processed if Trump does follow through on deporting millions.

Exactly. People think that Trump will magically revive American production and bring back high paying jobs but that ship has sailed. It’s cheaper to pay tariffs and pass off the cost to consumers than to being production back to the US. If tariffs cause companies to move their production it is because they are moving to a different foreign country. 

Edited Saturday at 08:54 PM by Makai

[peacheslatour]

Nostalgia.

[PRgal]

56 minutes ago, Dimity said:

What is the benefit of tariffs?  I guess it's to encourage people to "buy American" but surely that only works for products that are actually made in the US from components also made in the US?

Which is why prices will still be high and why economy will go downhill.  And everyone across the globe will feel this.  PM Nepo Kid apparently had an excellent conversation with The Orange Man but he was not nearly as aggressive/assertive as Mexico was.   Not sure if she has children, but regardless, she definitely used her Parent Voice.  Just wish that PM Nepo Kid did the same.  He was just...being Canadian, if you know what I mean.

[Dimity]

4 minutes ago, PRgal said:

He was just...being Canadian, if you know what I mean.

Unlike our very own Trump Lite who is going to fight fire with fire.  Of course that's an easy threat to make since he isn't the PM...and no one actually believes him.  He'll just sit back and blame Trudeau like he always does.  Talk about someone with a concept of a plan. 

[Eri]

30 minutes ago, Makai said:

Exactly. People think that Trump will magically revive American production and bring back high paying jobs but that ship has sailed. It’s cheaper to pay tariffs and pass off the cost to consumers than to being production back to the US. If tariffs cause companies to move their production it is because they are moving to a different foreign country. 

I suspect Trump wants the stock market to dip before he takes office so he can take credit for a bounceback lol.

"Oh I said 25% tariffs before taking office.. well we made a deal and I lowered them. BIG WIN."

[Annber03]

5 hours ago, Dimity said:

Biden and Harris both reached out to Trump with concern and sympathy after the attempt.  Does anyone think for one minute Trump  would have done the same if the positions had been reversed?  I don't.

Hell, remember how he harassed Governor Whitmer during the pandemic? She had people actually plotting to kidnap her over that, and Trump...did absolutely nothing to call out those people or tell them to back off, nor did he show any concern for Whitmer in the wake of any of that. 

14 hours ago, MostlyContent said:

This is so untrue, as are so many things stated as the Gospel Truth in this thread. F Annber, all I can say is please do a little research.   I'm sure you didn't mean to spread untruths, but maybe your news sources are a bit suspect.  

If you'd like to explain where I and others are wrong with the stuff we've been saying in this thread, feel free to point it out. 

And I'm not going off news reports. I'm going off of, y'know, Trump's own actual behavior and rhetoric that we've been witness to thus far. 

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

 

And I'm not going off news reports. I'm going off of, y'know, Trump's own actual behavior and rhetoric that we've been witness to thus far. 

Now now now you know we aren't supposed to take anything he says or does seriously.   

 

[peacheslatour]

3 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Now now now you know we aren't supposed to take anything he says or does seriously.   

 

It's like "Hey, Trump really tells it like it is." And the next breath is "Well, what he really meant was..."

 

[MostlyContent]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

If you'd like to explain where I and others are wrong with the stuff we've been saying in this thread, feel free to point it out. 

I did.  

You stated that:  "Also, one of Trump's own supporters was actually shot and killed at the site of the first assassionation attempt, and Trump..never once said anything about it. Never offered condolences to the family, never spoke reverently of the man who died"  

I said that's untrue, because it is.  I pretty much dislike having to defend him, but Trump spoke of and honored the gentleman who was killed many, many times. Corey Comperatore, the retired fire chief in western Pennsylvania who died throwing his body over that of his family was well loved in his community.  He spoke to the family repeatedly and I believe they've met more than once, but I have little time to look that up right now.

He also spoke to and kept up with the other two gentleman who were seriously injured.  

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

And I'm not going off news reports.

Apparently not, but different strokes for different folks.  :)

Edited Saturday at 10:46 PM by MostlyContent

[ebk57]

Going back to the Fairness Doctrine, On The Media did a show about it today.  Admittedly, I was asleep through most of it (hey, it comes on at 7am on a Saturday - no way I'm actually awake then), but I did hear a bit of it and thought I'd share.  There's also a transcript, which I'll most probably read instead of listening.

From WNYC - On The Media

[Avaleigh]

20 hours ago, Annber03 said:

To say nothing of how a lot of people think those attempts were staged or exaggerated - I don't subscribe to that, but the fact that people think they were says a lot right there about how unttrustworthy Trump is and how much of a nasty conspiracy vibe he's fostered over the past decade.

I'm glad that you don't subscribe to any of those theories. I'm actually shocked that there are so many people who think that the first assassination attempt was staged or exaggerated or some sort of false flag operation or whatever. I have yet to read a credible news source say that it wasn't a legitimate assassination attempt. A man died. If nothing else, Trump is incredibly vain--I can't see him being okay with a plan that involves knocking his MAGA hat off and showing the world his hair without its signature bouffant. But also, no, the idea that this was staged doesn't make any sense. Occam's Razor and all that. 

I agree with you though that Trump is to blame for making "fake news" and conspiracy theories more mainstream than they should be. He's the reason so many people have started to feel that facts are optional when it comes to accepting whether or not x,y, and z is true. 

I generally thought that the wacky conspiracy theories were from the right wing crowd, but apparently not if there are multiple people here who genuinely believe that the Trump assassination attempt was staged/not genuine.

The perpetrator was a right wing lunatic who wanted attention. He also considered targeting other high profile figures before settling on Trump. If this had been some sort of staged thing, then why would they use a right wing stooge? That doesn't suit their agenda at all which is why so many supporters on the right have spread the false conspiracy that this guy was a left wing plant. 

We're supposed to be the party that cares about facts. We're supposed to be the group that doesn't fall down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. 

Not believing in the Trump assassination attempt to me is the equivalent of the right wing people who have attempted to rewrite the kidnapping attempt of Gretchen Whitmer. 

We're supposed to be better than this. 

[Makai]

59 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I'm glad that you don't subscribe to any of those theories. I'm actually shocked that there are so many people who think that the first assassination attempt was staged or exaggerated or some sort of false flag operation or whatever. I have yet to read a credible news source say that it wasn't a legitimate assassination attempt. A man died. If nothing else, Trump is incredibly vain--I can't see him being okay with a plan that involves knocking his MAGA hat off and showing the world his hair without its signature bouffant. But also, no, the idea that this was staged doesn't make any sense. Occam's Razor and all that. 

I agree with you though that Trump is to blame for making "fake news" and conspiracy theories more mainstream than they should be. He's the reason so many people have started to feel that facts are optional when it comes to accepting whether or not x,y, and z is true. 

I generally thought that the wacky conspiracy theories were from the right wing crowd, but apparently not if there are multiple people here who genuinely believe that the Trump assassination attempt was staged/not genuine.

The perpetrator was a right wing lunatic who wanted attention. He also considered targeting other high profile figures before settling on Trump. If this had been some sort of staged thing, then why would they use a right wing stooge? That doesn't suit their agenda at all which is why so many supporters on the right have spread the false conspiracy that this guy was a left wing plant. 

We're supposed to be the party that cares about facts. We're supposed to be the group that doesn't fall down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. 

Not believing in the Trump assassination attempt to me is the equivalent of the right wing people who have attempted to rewrite the kidnapping attempt of Gretchen Whitmer. 

We're supposed to be better than this. 

I agree with you. The pictures of the immediate aftermath of the shooting are horrific. Trump is not that good of an actor to have faked the look on his face. I do think that Trump exaggerated the extent of his injury in the aftermath but I can’t see any evidence to show the it wasn’t a real assassination attempt. 
 

23 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I will NEVER believe a coward like him would jump up if he had any fear his life was in danger.

The secret service agents with him had already gotten the notification that the shooter was down before Trump stood up. At that point he knew the danger had passed. 

Edited Sunday at 12:14 AM by Makai

[Dimity]

34 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I generally thought that the wacky conspiracy theories were from the right wing crowd, but apparently not if there are multiple people here who genuinely believe that the Trump assassination attempt was staged/not genuine.

Having been bombarded over the last few months with memes and posts and godknowswhattocallit on Facebook with all kinds of stuff from both sides of the US political spectrum I've had to accept that there are people on the left who are just as crazy as some of the people on the right.  I've read somewhere that if you go far enough left you end up on the right (or some such) and this is definitely true when it comes to conspiracy theories and overheated rhetoric.

That said, these posts and memes that I see from the so-called left do not originate with those who hold, or aspire to, political office.  I cannot say the same about the ridiculous things I see coming straight out of the Republican party.

[bluegirl147]

The extreme left and the extreme right meet around the bend.

And yes you are right @Dimity Democrat politicians don't push conspiracy theories.  You don’t see Kamala Harris saying the election was rigged against her.

[Dimity]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

You don’t see Kamala Harris saying the election was rigged against her.

Or threatening to jail or execute her opponents.  The man really should be institutionalized.

[Annber03]

Yeah ,I've never been one to subscribe to conspiracy theory stuff in general. Obviously there have definitely been government coverups throughout history and whatnot, but usually those coverups wind up being revealed eventually anyway because it's just REALLY hard to get a large group of people to keep a secret for any length of time without someone eventually spilling the beans, or not covering their tracks well, or whatever. 

And nowadays, most people who want to do evil things just do them right out in the open anyway. Government officials who want to do awful shit don't even bother trying to hide it anymore (and even if they do try to hide it, it's almost impossible to do so nowadays with social media and so forth being what it is), they just do it and thumb their noses at everyone else like, "What are you gonna do about it?" Trump isn't clever enough to mastermind a conspiracy - he'd be a stooge for someone who wanted to, sure, but I think if he really wanted to stage something like this, it'd play out a lot differently. 

(Honestly, the only reason I could see people buying into the conspiracy is because we've already seen he doesn't care about the safety of his supporters, given he did nothing to protect them at rallies during the pandemic and just sat and watched as they stormed the Capitol on January 6th, chaos and violence be damned.)

No, these shootings were the result of people having far too easy of access to guns, faulty/shitty protection in place, and a culture of hateful, violent rhetoric that emboldens and stirs up nutjobs like this. The first attempt was very much a "The call is coming from inside the house" scenario come to life, and the second...was the guy actually targeting Trump or did he just happen to be reckless with a gun while being in the vicinity? Either way, again, it's proof he shouldn't have had access to a gun, but unfortunately, that's not the world we live in. 

And mind, my lack of sympathy for Trump being put in danger isn't me hoping he gets killed. I don't want that. I don't want people getting shot and killed over politics (or anything else). Just that I can't find it in me to be sympathetic to someone who finds themselves in that scenario after fostering an environment that allows for that kind of dangerous situation to play out, and ESPECIALLY not after he's had such a callous attitude towards others who've been the victims of mass shootings. When somebody tells people they just need to "get over" mass shootings in a country that has far, FAR too many of them and has seen TWO mass shootings at elementary schools within the span of a decade that left many, many children dead, and they say this mere weeks after a deadly shooting at another school besides, well...they can frankly go fuck themselves. 

Edited Sunday at 12:31 AM by Annber03

[FilmTVGeek80]

2 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I'm glad that you don't subscribe to any of those theories. I'm actually shocked that there are so many people who think that the first assassination attempt was staged or exaggerated or some sort of false flag operation or whatever. I have yet to read a credible news source say that it wasn't a legitimate assassination attempt. A man died. If nothing else, Trump is incredibly vain--I can't see him being okay with a plan that involves knocking his MAGA hat off and showing the world his hair without its signature bouffant. But also, no, the idea that this was staged doesn't make any sense. Occam's Razor and all that. 

I agree with you though that Trump is to blame for making "fake news" and conspiracy theories more mainstream than they should be. He's the reason so many people have started to feel that facts are optional when it comes to accepting whether or not x,y, and z is true. 

I generally thought that the wacky conspiracy theories were from the right wing crowd, but apparently not if there are multiple people here who genuinely believe that the Trump assassination attempt was staged/not genuine.

The perpetrator was a right wing lunatic who wanted attention. He also considered targeting other high profile figures before settling on Trump. If this had been some sort of staged thing, then why would they use a right wing stooge? That doesn't suit their agenda at all which is why so many supporters on the right have spread the false conspiracy that this guy was a left wing plant. 

We're supposed to be the party that cares about facts. We're supposed to be the group that doesn't fall down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. 

Not believing in the Trump assassination attempt to me is the equivalent of the right wing people who have attempted to rewrite the kidnapping attempt of Gretchen Whitmer. 

We're supposed to be better than this. 

There's no need to wag your finger or act like people are insane for having very valid questions about that first incident. I care about facts and none of the questions I asked in my initial post about this counter any of the facts known. There's been so little information put out by the media or 45's side so many open-ended questions exist. Biden had a bad debate, and the media is all over it to the point that they're making up diagnoses based on very little evidence. Yet, when a presidential candidate is shot at, there's nowhere near the journalistic hunger or curiosity.  When the first reports came out, I ultimately thought it was fake because of how he jumped up. When I heard someone was killed, I knew that a shooting had taken place, but the situation was still fishy. Why was the Secret Service so lax and didn't check that roof or have eyes on it? I heard reports that some people reported that they saw someone up there, but no one did anything about it. 

 

2 hours ago, Makai said:

The secret service agents with him had already gotten the notification that the shooter was down before Trump stood up. At that point he knew the danger had passed. 

I heard that explanation, but I still think he's too big of a coward to get up like that. Plus, I don't buy the Secret Service letting him get up like that since, at that point, there was no way to know if the danger was entirely over. They didn't know if the guy had an accomplice or something. 

[Makai]

55 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

There's been so little information put out by the media or 45's side so many open-ended questions exist.

There is a task force assigned to investigate and they put out an interim report. The media has moved on but this will be heavily investigated. 

 

55 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Why was the Secret Service so lax and didn't check that roof or have eyes on it?

I am assuming that is something that will be looked into extensively but they were so lax that a random person was able to walk into the White House while Obama was in residence. For whatever reason the security perimeter was inadequate. If they were involved I think they would have done a better job on the coverup. 

55 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I heard reports that some people reported that they saw someone up there, but no one did anything about it. 

It’s true the shooter was spotted but it was only two minutes between when he was seen and the shots so it’s hard to know what was done about it and if the message was relayed. 

55 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I heard that explanation, but I still think he's too big of a coward to get up like that. Plus, I don't buy the Secret Service letting him get up like that since, at that point, there was no way to know if the danger was entirely over. They didn't know if the guy had an accomplice or something. 

Just after it happened, I saw security experts saying they should have moved him sooner. I don’t know what is true. I’m sure whether or not they followed proper procedure will be part of the report. There is audio from the stage as it happened and the agents on the stage weren’t the one to make that decision. 

Edited Sunday at 03:02 AM by Makai

[Avaleigh]

2 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

There's no need to wag your finger or act like people are insane for having very valid questions about that first incident. I care about facts and none of the questions I asked in my initial post about this counter any of the facts known. There's been so little information put out by the media or 45's side so many open-ended questions exist. Biden had a bad debate, and the media is all over it to the point that they're making up diagnoses based on very little evidence. Yet, when a presidential candidate is shot at, there's nowhere near the journalistic hunger or curiosity.  When the first reports came out, I ultimately thought it was fake because of how he jumped up. When I heard someone was killed, I knew that a shooting had taken place, but the situation was still fishy. Why was the Secret Service so lax and didn't check that roof or have eyes on it? I heard reports that some people reported that they saw someone up there, but no one did anything about it. 

My intention wasn't to finger wag, and I apologize if that's how it came across. I was going for impassioned plea for us as supporters of the opposition to Trump to not fall down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. I've seen for myself how damaging it can be and I worry when I see that sort of rhetoric. Presently, there isn't any evidence to support the idea that the assassination attempt was fake or staged or however people want to phrase it. 

We have enough legitimate issues and concerns about Trump and the incoming administration without having to descend into the murky area of conspiracy theories that can't be proven. 

4 hours ago, Dimity said:

That said, these posts and memes that I see from the so-called left do not originate with those who hold, or aspire to, political office.  I cannot say the same about the ridiculous things I see coming straight out of the Republican party.

I agree, and this is one of the biggest and most important differences between the parties right now. There are multiple politicians on the right who peddle conspiracy theories to their followers and it's been incredibly damaging to millions of people. I'm grateful the Democratic politicians aren't going down that road. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

4 hours ago, Makai said:

There is a task force assigned to investigate and they put out an interim report. The media has moved on but this will be heavily investigated. 

On the one hand, it's good to know there is an investigation, but who knows what will come of it with this band of idiots coming into power in January. Since the media has moved on, will they bother to press the issue and demand to see the report? You would think 45 would want to have the people behind this punished and want those details to come to light, but he's not acting like it. Usually, if someone says even a slightly bad word against Orange Mussolini, he goes after them with a vengeance, but has he had even a slightly bad word to say for the alleged shooters? Other than wearing a Kotex pad on his ear for sympathy and trying to somehow blame the Left for what happened, he's been pretty quiet about this. Since he can't blame it on immigrants, it does him no good since he can't rile up his base.

[Browncoat]

I met some people today who are from Australia and the UK.  All of them, as the Finns and Danes I met the other day, are also concerned about the world when Orange Mussolini takes office.  Every non-American I've met in the past few days is incredulous that he was elected again.

[Soapy Goddess]

17 hours ago, partofme said:

Also wanted to point out that both “assassination attempts” were done by Trump supporters. 

They weren't supporters. A supporter doesn't try to kill the person they supposedly support. Makes zero sense.

[anony.miss]

55 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

 A supporter doesn't try to kill the person they supposedly support. Makes zero sense.

Nothing about Trump makes sense.

Edited Sunday at 09:20 AM by anony.miss

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Soapy Goddess said:

They weren't supporters. A supporter doesn't try to kill the person they supposedly support. Makes zero sense.

They can if they feel the person they support isn't doing what they want or betraying their policies/stances somehow. 

Also, Trump's diehard supporters are the same ones who look at a guy who's hanging out with Elon Musk and somehow still think he actually gives a damn about the concerns of the working class. Logical, rational thinking isn't exactly their strong suit. 

[Soapy Goddess]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

They can if they feel the person they support isn't doing what they want or betraying their policies/stances somehow. 

Also, Trump's diehard supporters are the same ones who look at a guy who's hanging out with Elon Musk and somehow still think he actually gives a damn about the concerns of the working class. Logical, rational thinking isn't exactly their strong suit. 

Ok, but if for some reason things turn out better than you anticipate (growth, maturity in the political world) all this hatred and angst will be for nothing. 

[Annber03]

8 minutes ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Ok, but if for some reason things turn out better than you anticipate (growth, maturity in the political world) all this hatred and angst will be for nothing. 

Except...no. That's literally never going to happen. We already have plenty of valid reaosns to despise this guy and angst and rant because of the awful stuff he has already done the first time he was in office. He appointed Supreme Court justices that hastened the overturning of Roe v. Wade and took away reproductive rights from women in this country. He hideously mishandled a pandemic and babbled on about injecting bleach as a "solution" to the issue, and picked fights with Fauci and Democratic governors because they actually tried to run on and work off of facts and help keep people safe. And because of his gross negligence, hundreds of thousands of people were sickened and died as a result. 

And, oh, yeah, yet AGAIN, he actively tried to violently overturn a democratic election because he could not deal with the fact that he lost. Kind of a rather important, significant thing to not gloss over, you know? Not exactly something that instills hope and confidence in somebody's ability to be a good leader. 

And that's just scratching the surface of the horrible things he said and did during his first go-round in office. But they're certainly some of his more notable failures, and entirely valid reasons to hate him and all he stands for. 

And now this time around, he's already got cabinet picks that are a complete and total joke at best, downright dangerous and reckless at worst , he's already vowing to seek revenge on everyone who had the nerve to actually, y'know, investigate him for all his criminal activity, he made Hatian immigrants' lives a living hell because of lies he spread about them at the presidential debate a couple months back, he's already threatening mass deportation of immigrants, which is going to make life horrible for said immigrants, their families, their communities, and our economy as a whole, he's talking about tariffs that will do nothing but jack up prices here even more, and he's actively selling out our country to people like Putin and Musk for his own personal gain. 

He's also getting support from neo-Nazis. They are actively marching in the street cheering him on. And that's not even getting into his utterly vile rhetoric about women and minorities in general 

He is completely incapable of exhibiting anything resembling maturity, and he will not provide any growth for our country or the world. You get that, right? He's shown no ability to behave like a normal, compasionate, thoughtful, intelligent human being. He is a danger. A legitimate, real danger. We know this, because we have been through this before. At best, at best, we can hope that there'll be some sane voice trying to hold him back. But even then, he's still going to do a hell of a lot more damage, and his damage could last a long, long, LONG time. 

I truly do not get how people still can't seem to grasp why we cannot stand him and why we are so honestly angry at and afraid of both him and his supporters. How does all of the above NOT constitute valid reasons to despise Trump and those who still support him after all of that? 

[EtheltoTillie]

17 hours ago, Eri said:

 

I'm curious, does anyone have any right leaning friends or family who are genuinely happy about the election? I don't know any personally but I get the feeling that folks were already miserable to begin with because I don't see any joy anywhere after all this.

I have several such friends, colleagues, and relatives (we really can’t disassociate from some of these people). One is very happy because of the prospect of mass deportation of criminals. He is now afraid to go to NYC.  He plays Fox News nonstop. Spouts Fox-generated tropes like “she’s an idiot. She can’t define what a woman is.”  Or “she wants to give trans surgery to prisoners.”  There is no explaining any illogic or fallacies. These are people whose meanness brand of conservatism is so deeply ingrained that it cannot be budged. So they are happy that their side is “on top.”  

Edited Sunday at 01:16 PM by EtheltoTillie

[bluegirl147]

5 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I met some people today who are from Australia and the UK.  All of them, as the Finns and Danes I met the other day, are also concerned about the world when Orange Mussolini takes office.  Every non-American I've met in the past few days is incredulous that he was elected again.

[EtheltoTillie]

Some of these people are well to do, so it’s not about inflation. It’s all about racism and hate. This really goes with my comment above. 

Edited Sunday at 01:18 PM by EtheltoTillie

[bluegirl147]

Just now, bluegirl147 said:

5 hours ago, Browncoat said:

I met some people today who are from Australia and the UK.  All of them, as the Finns and Danes I met the other day, are also concerned about the world when Orange Mussolini takes office.  Every non-American I've met in the past few days is incredulous that he was elected again.

It's not just non Americans that are incredulous.

Regarding the Butler assassination attempt investigation unless it implicates someone Trump can use to fire up his base it will probably quietly be released with a cursory mention in the media.

3 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Ok, but if for some reason things turn out better than you anticipate (growth, maturity in the political world) all this hatred and angst will be for nothing. 

The same could be said of the people who hated Obama.  Even when using the ACA he is responsible for they still hate him.  

2 hours ago, tearknee said:

The white working class (plus a significant minority of the non-white one) has now given Trump a second term. As in 2016 with Brexit and then HRC going into a tailspin, it turns out that those not from the college-educated intellectual elite *know* when they are looked down upon and derided and called "white trash" and "Karens".

*mirthless laughter*

And how many times do we hear the "coastal elites" don't represent most Americans? The only people I look down on are the people who are willfully ignorant to the truth and those that exploit those people.  

[Dimity]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

The only people I look down on are the people who are willfully ignorant to the truth and those that exploit those people.  

For me right now the ones I have no patience with are the ones who seem to think Trump will magically become presidential the day he takes office.  It didn't happen the last time, what on earth makes them think it will happen this time?

[Avaleigh]

1 hour ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Some of these people are well to do, so it’s not about inflation. It’s all about racism and hate. This really goes with my comment above. 

We can't forget that there are also some people who voted for him because they felt that the current administration was not properly addressing the stuff they were concerned about. These people don't attend Trump's hate rallies and racism isn't what's making them vote. Again, these people aren't as well informed as many of the people in this thread. They aren't doing research, they aren't reading or listening to news, they're just going by their lived experience in addition to whatever trickles their way via social media. 

They're struggling financially and have concerns about crime and unhoused people, and don't feel that they were "better off" under the current administration. They're hurting and are blaming the people in charge instead of examining the root causes. They don't care about the effects of the pandemic or stuff like the disruption of the supply chain. They're primarily thinking that some sort of change is needed and unfortunately, bought the idea that Trump will make things affordable again. Unfortunately, they associated Harris with the current state of affairs and since they only had one other choice, they voted for the vindictive asshole who is only going to make things worse for working class people. 

We can't forget that Trump had gains with women and minorities. Women supported Harris, but not as much as they supported Biden or HRC. According to CNN, Hillary won women by 13 points. Biden won women by 15 points. Harris, in contrast, only won women by 10 points. That's a huge drop considering women's health and reproductive rights are currently at risk in multiple states. 

Latina women in particular supported Trump more than ever before. Hillary won Latina women by 44 points. Harris won them by 24 points. Considering how mass deportation is on the menu for next year, Trump's gains here are astonishing to me. 

I'm in the minority in that I still want to examine what happened because I don't want a MAGA clone to win in four years. I hope the party has learned from what happened here and will be better able to counter all of the lies and BS the other side is spewing when the time comes. 

[Dimity]

3 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

That's a huge drop considering women's health and reproductive rights are currently at risk in multiple states. 

I think what we tend to forget in this discussion is that, of course, there are women who support abortion bans and who also feel that life was better back before women got all these newfangled rights.  Sigh.  I see this last in particular with younger women who have absolutely no clue how different their lives would actually be had they come of age 50 or 60 years ago.  They've bought into this rose coloured view of life in the past that existed for only a very few, and likely not for them.

[peacheslatour]

Then we have Elon Musk, constitutionally unable to be president so he bought one. I wonder how long it will take before their two colossal egos cause a blow up unseen before. I so want the press to start asking Trump things like “Mr President, had Elon Musk approved your most recent cabinet appointments?” Or “Have you run this past Mr Musk, sir? What did he think?”

[bluegirl147]

42 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Then we have Elon Musk, constitutionally unable to be president so he bought one. I wonder how long it will take before their two colossal egos cause a blow up unseen before. I so want the press to start asking Trump things like “Mr President, had Elon Musk approved your most recent cabinet appointments?” Or “Have you run this past Mr Musk, sir? What did he think?”

I said that exact same thing to one of my best friends yesterday.   Elon Musk bought a president.   And their egos might clash but I feel like Trump will be content to do the fun presidential stuff like be cruel to marginalized groups and alienate our allies and let Musk do the actual governing. If anyone thinks there was no quid pro quo between Trump and Musk I have a bridge in Brooklynn I want to sell you. 

[Makai]

9 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

They weren't supporters. A supporter doesn't try to kill the person they supposedly support. Makes zero sense.

People kill things they “love” all the time.

7 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

Ok, but if for some reason things turn out better than you anticipate (growth, maturity in the political world) all this hatred and angst will be for nothing. 

Serious question, how would that happen? I honestly want to know, because nearly all the experts say Trump’s policies will be really bad for the economy. One thing that frustrates me is that I haven’t seen any Trump supporters truly address how these policies are actually going to be successful. I’d love to find some hope but it feels like it can only come from the idea that he’s not going to do what he says he is going to do. This idea that he apparently has some amazing plan that will make everything better and just hasn’t said it. 

From what I have seen, the experts raising concerns have data and history to back them up but the people who believe in Trump’s policies use diversion tactics, lie, or freeze when challenged. 

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

We can't forget that there are also some people who voted for him because they felt that the current administration was not properly addressing the stuff they were concerned about. These people don't attend Trump's hate rallies and racism isn't what's making them vote. Again, these people aren't as well informed as many of the people in this thread. They aren't doing research, they aren't reading or listening to news, they're just going by their lived experience in addition to whatever trickles their way via social media. 

They're struggling financially and have concerns about crime and unhoused people, and don't feel that they were "better off" under the current administration. They're hurting and are blaming the people in charge instead of examining the root causes. They don't care about the effects of the pandemic or stuff like the disruption of the supply chain. They're primarily thinking that some sort of change is needed and unfortunately, bought the idea that Trump will make things affordable again. Unfortunately, they associated Harris with the current state of affairs and since they only had one other choice, they voted for the vindictive asshole who is only going to make things worse for working class people. 

This is exactly why I feel like we are probably going to continue yo-yoing between political parties in power until something big happens. Too many people are choosing not to vote or are voting purely against the current power with no understanding of how the economy works. 

1 hour ago, Avaleigh said:

We can't forget that Trump had gains with women and minorities. Women supported Harris, but not as much as they supported Biden or HRC. According to CNN, Hillary won women by 13 points. Biden won women by 15 points. Harris, in contrast, only won women by 10 points. That's a huge drop considering women's health and reproductive rights are currently at risk in multiple states. 

Latina women in particular supported Trump more than ever before. Hillary won Latina women by 44 points. Harris won them by 24 points. Considering how mass deportation is on the menu for next year, Trump's gains here are astonishing to me. 

I am probably going to be a broken record over the next four years, but we also can’t forget to consider voter turnout when making this analysis. We can’t know how significant those gains are actually significant and if voters really moving red. There needs to be more extensive diving into the numbers before accurate conclusions can be drawn. 

I would love to see a state by state breakdown because I suspect that the minority vote stats are being impacted by blue state complacency amongst democrats. 

Edited Sunday at 05:28 PM by Makai

[Avaleigh]

4 minutes ago, Makai said:

I am probably going to be a broken record over the next four years, but we also can’t forget to consider voter turnout when making this analysis. We can’t know if those gains are actually significant or if voters moving red. There needs to be more extensive diving into the numbers before accurate conclusions can be drawn. 

I would love to see a state by state breakdown because I suspect that the minority vote stats are being impacted by blue state complacency amongst democrats. 

I'd love to see the breakdown too. Whatever the actual stats are, if we have these significant numbers of women and minorities who aren't voting at all then that needs to be addressed too because clearly there's some sort of disconnect where people don't feel they have a party that speaks to and represents them. We've got to get people to remember that their vote makes a difference. The people who chose not to vote probably helped Trump get elected and now they're going to end up dealing with policies that are against their best interests. 

[peacheslatour]

24 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I'd love to see the breakdown too. Whatever the actual stats are, if we have these significant numbers of women and minorities who aren't voting at all then that needs to be addressed too because clearly there's some sort of disconnect where people don't feel they have a party that speaks to and represents them. We've got to get people to remember that their vote makes a difference. The people who chose not to vote probably helped Trump get elected and now they're going to end up dealing with policies that are against their best interests. 

And young people, who made a whole lot of noise about wanting Democratic policies and reforms stayed home.