Chit-Chat: The Feels

[bluegirl147]

I'm four and four.   Clinton twice and Obama twice.   And unfortunately it was Bush and Trump twice.  @Annber03 we need to improve our records.

[Blergh]

Something in the joking but not entirely joking category:

I'm beginning to wonder if, in addition to the 'usual suspects, there might have been X number of drama llama voters who voted for #45,etc.

I mean we've all known folks who've gone back to cheating significant others, who've kept 'loaning' megabucks to deadbeat/grifter kin,etc. when they knew that they there were more positive options that would have been easier for them to have  taken. Yet, even with all the info in front of them,  they opted for the negative ones because that's what they were more familiar with and/or they wanted to guarantee  themselves stuff to complain about. Yeah, sometimes repeating the same negative actions/choices  while claiming to expect different outcomes can be a definition of insanity but it can also be a definition of being a drama llama who values hearing themselves complain more than virtually anything else- even to their own detriment!

[bluegirl147]

I just realized I forgot Biden.   Lol.  So I'm 5 and 4.  At least I'm above 500.

[Annber03]

On the topic of those who voted for Trump, someone posted this on another site earlier:

Reddit post

[Makai]

17 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

How can you have buyer's remorse when your package hasn't even been delivered yet?

 

Easy when the press is finally reporting on the likely impact of Trump’s policies. Also, dominoes have already started to fall as companies are announcing expected price increases due to impending tariffs and Trump friendly judges are already halting immigration programs. 

7 hours ago, chitowngirl said:

From Huff Post - “The Florida congressman resigned his seat in Congress last week on the heels of his nomination. He had just been elected to another two-year term representing Florida’s western panhandle. But Gaetz only resigned from the current Congress, not the one he was just elected to, meaning he could return to office in January. Gaetz hasn’t made any announcement yet about his future plans.”

His resignation also included that he did not intend to take the oath of office in January so it’s not clear if he can just return in January. He also wouldn’t be able to just resume his prior positions because of his resignation. Plus choosing to rejoin the House would put him back under the jurisdiction of the ethics committee. 

5 hours ago, tearknee said:

Under the 22nd Amendment -- If Trump dies or resigns before 1/20/27 -- JDV gets to have most of his term plus two full terms of his own -- after that it's a Gerry Ford scenario -- only able to have one elected term of his own.

That’s reversed. On or before 1/20/27, Vance could be elected once. If he completes less than half of Trump’s term he can be elected to eight more years. 

Edited November 22 by Makai

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, Makai said:

That’s reversed. On or before 1/20/27, Vance could be elected once. If he completes less than half of Trump’s term he can be elected to eight more years. 

*Eye twitches*

[Is Everyone Gone]

I feel like Gaetz is just looking forward to blabbing on OAN or Fox. Being a Congressman is just too much hard work.

[Dimity]

5 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

I feel like Gaetz is just looking forward to blabbing on OAN or Fox. Being a Congressman is just too much hard work.

Also he doesn't need to be in Congress anymore doing Trump's dirty work leading that pack of MAGA fools  - Trump can do it openly now.

[Anela]

24 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Something in the joking but not entirely joking category:

I'm beginning to wonder if, in addition to the 'usual suspects, there might have been X number of drama llama voters who voted for #45,etc.

I mean we've all known folks who've gone back to cheating significant others, who've kept 'loaning' megabucks to deadbeat/grifter kin,etc. when they knew that they there were more positive options that would have been easier for them to have  taken. Yet, even with all the info in front of them,  they opted for the negative ones because that's what they were more familiar with and/or they wanted to guarantee  themselves stuff to complain about. Yeah, sometimes repeating the same negative actions/choices  while claiming to expect different outcomes can be a definition of insanity but it can also be a definition of being a drama llama who values hearing themselves complain more than virtually anything else- even to their own detriment!

As someone who mentioned this thread had kept me away from a couple of places that aren't great for me, I didn't do that, but I could see some voting for him, because they thought it would be funny. I would have loved to have had a chance to gloat about a Kamala win. 

Those places I mentioned: I've been a member of one place for twenty-two years. I left for a while, went back after a person who'd been harassing me, left, and then Covid happened, and conspiracy theories ran rampant. It can be easier to stay where you know what to expect, and from whom. 

the other place was an off-shoot of the first one, and the only issue I have there, is one woman who wanted me gone. I've known her since 2011, and we didn't argue until 2021, over the covid vaccine. A few people wanted me to stay, but I didn't. I've spent more time joining in on movies being streamed in a discord, and gaming. Half of my twitter feed is pretty pictures. Slowly replacing bad things with good things. I kept this open in my browser, after seeing it a few weeks ago:

Quote

I hope you choose people that choose you.

I hope you realize that the bare minimum isn’t actually effort.

I hope you realize when it is actually real, you don’t have to beg someone to stay in your life.

I hope you also realize that you don’t have to prove yourself worthy of someone’s love.

You have nothing to prove.

The right people will choose you.

I hope you realize that inconsistency is a sign that someone might not be that interested.

I hope you take people’s actions over their words

Because people will show you how they feel about you.

They can say whatever they want believe what they show you.

I hope you don’t settle.

I hope you realize that just because they didn’t see your value doesn’t mean you are not valuable.

I hope you realize that one day you will be loved the right way

And just because you haven’t in the past, doesn’t mean it isn’t out there.

I hope you don’t give up

Taken from @exitexistentialcrisis on tiktok.

 

[Is Everyone Gone]

I'll never forget the time Gaetz was interviewed by Tucker Carlson. It was meant to be a friendly interview, but Gaetz ended up saying so many out of pocket things that Carlson was weirded out. At the end of the interview Carlson said that it was one of the strangest interviews he'd ever conducted.

You have to be a special kind of creep to weird out Tucker Carlson.

[RealHousewife]

3 minutes ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

I'll never forget the time Gaetz was interviewed by Tucker Carlson. It was meant to be a friendly interview, but Gaetz ended up saying so many out of pocket things that Carlson was weirded out. At the end of the interview Carlson said that it was one of the strangest interviews he'd ever conducted.

You have to be a special kind of creep to weird out Tucker Carlson.

I remember that interview. 

Yeah, I remember thinking the same watching Alex Jones floored by Kanye's crazy. 

[Is Everyone Gone]

Here is the infamous interview. "Providing flights and hotel rooms for people that you're dating that are of legal age is not a crime."

 

[Ancaster]

5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

ETA: I tell people I've never been to Florida. I have been to Disney World for a weekend, but I don't think that counts.

Taxes?

[kittykat]

2 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Also, regarding people recalling their first presidential votes, mine was in 2004, for Kerry. Three elections I voted in where the person I voted for won (Obama in both '08 and '12, and Biden in '20), and three elections where they didn't (Bush in '04, and of course, Trump in 2016 and this year). So...three and three? 

Same.  2004 was my first election and voted for Kerry.  Same W/L record.

Quote

Yet, even with all the info in front of them,  they opted for the negative ones because that's what they were more familiar with and/or they wanted to guarantee  themselves stuff to complain about. 

I tend to believe a fair amount of people invoked the General Hux Principle when voting: they didn't care if Trump won, they just wanted the liberals to lose.

[Yeah No]

On 11/20/2024 at 1:28 PM, peacheslatour said:

Hahaha! Like they eat salad. When McDonalds triples theIr prices maybe they'll notice.

Unfortunately they'll just believe Trump will fix it. Like he's going to fix the increase in prices that happened over the pandemic. Yeah, right. Even if he does somehow get prices to come down it will be at the expense of something else, but of course we won't hear about that.

9 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

But too many of them are.  And the ones that aren't don't seem to have a problem with the ones that are.  Yes these people existed before Trump but he gave them license to voice their hate and stoked it to his own ends.

I think people are tuning out what they don't want to see in favor of whatever shiny object (aka quick fix for them) Trump waves in front of their faces. There's no thinking about the greater good anymore. Many otherwise good people are confused now and have been intentionally stoked with fear of "the other side" that they will react from that fear on one or two issues and not even think about the bigger picture and who exactly supports this asshole and why. And so they become less good and part of the problem themselves.

I just can't get over my good friend voting for Trump. I know her as well as my own family and she has historically never been any of those things on the list (racist, homophobic, misogynistic) and she would vehemently defend herself on that, but people are being brainwashed and falling victim to fear tactics to make them forget about what this creep really stands for and who supports him. And they will make every excuse for him and even not believe that he is "that bad". Even that they will blame on Democrats!

I give up with her and people like her. I could engage in a little "Socratic method" with her but I don't want to start an argument. She is still saying the nicest things about Harris and is now even bashing Trump again. But the fact of her voting for him still remains and she will not admit she made any mistake. It's complete insanity, but I think this is what you get when people are brainwashed and stoked with fear about one or two issues.

I did ask her why she voted for Trump and so far all I've gotten out of her is that "the economy was better under him" and "immigration", which she thinks he would handle better. She also admits she isn't up on the issues and the history here, so once again we have a very intelligent person not using their head and falling for the BS.

8 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Trump himself told us what he was going to do.  We all believed him. Did his base not believe him? Did they think they would be immune to his harmful policies? Harris said she wanted to make things better for all Americans, including those who weren't going to vote for her.  Trump said he was going to punish his enemies, meaning anyone who didn't support him.  So I guess his supporters thought that meant it was only those people who would have to pay higher prices and lose their health insurance and have family members deported. 

 

According to the NY Times, there is evidence that many of his supporters don't believe he's going to do some of the more extreme things he's promising. Like jail his enemies, etc. They project on him all the things they want to see but don't even believe him at his word when he says he's going to do things they don't like.

This article was written before the election:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/us/elections/trump-promises-extreme-rhetoric.html

6 hours ago, Dimity said:

It is shocking to me that adults who have lived through the last 8 years are still unaware of what Trump did, what he stands for and what he wants to do.  Saying these people are uninformed is just being way too kind. 

I'm not shocked, unfortunately. I've been noticing how ignorant and uninformed many people are for a long time and how their numbers are continuing to grow at a shocking rate. The internet has created even more ways for people to get sidetracked from anything enriching and brainwashed into believing lies passed as fact. And many people are being sucked into it, even people I know that I thought were smarter and knew better than to be taken in by this crap.

The tactics used are pretty typical brainwashing techniques. They are being used online to make people doubt their better judgment and lose faith in values, people and ideas they once held dear, even vilify them so they will turn on them. Then they get them to give them their trust and allegiance. Weaker minds will buy it and give in. Unfortunately our society doesn't have as many strong minds as it once did. People don't have the strong foundation of values they used to have nor do they know how important certain values are. I won't theorize about who or what's to blame for this, it just is, and that's why I think so many more people are losing their way and becoming brainwashed.

[Yeah No]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Also, regarding people recalling their first presidential votes, mine was in 2004, for Kerry. Three elections I voted in where the person I voted for won (Obama in both '08 and '12, and Biden in '20), and three elections where they didn't (Bush in '04, and of course, Trump in 2016 and this year). So...three and three? 

As long as we're sharing, here's my presidential voting history:

1976 - Jimmy Carter

1980 - Jimmy Carter

1984 - Walter Mondale

1988 - George HW Bush

1992 - Bill Clinton

1996 - Bill Clinton

2000 - George W. Bush

2004 - John Kerry

2008 - Barack Obama

2012 - Barack Obama

2016 - Did not vote for president (I could not pull the trigger for either one, but I live in a Blue state so I knew it would go to Hillary and I was OK with that)

2020 - Joe Biden

2024 - Kamala Harris

[Yeah No]

I just wanted to add that in retrospect I regretted not voting for Hillary given what we got and endured instead, but I at least feel better knowing it didn't change the outcome of the election because she still won my state. And at least I didn't give in and vote for Trump just because I didn't like Hillary that much. Nope, I would never do that even though I don't like not voting in any election and that was the only presidential election I sat out.

[Palimelon]

Quote

Why the fuck is Musk involving himself in any of this shit? Literally nobody asked for your opinion, Elon, sit down and shut up. 

Oh, he is involving himself because the UK government is calling out both him and Twitter/X for inciting people to be involved in the August riots in the UK.

"Musk, who has been a fixture at the side of Donald Trump since his re-election as US president, was responding to a Guardian report on Wednesday that the Commons’ science and technology select committee would call him to give evidence in the new year in its inquiry into the spread of harmful content on social media after the August riots.

The committee’s chair, Chi Onwurah, a Labour MP, said she wanted to see how Musk, who owns the X social media platform, “reconciles his promotion of freedom of expression with his promotion of pure disinformation”.

X hosts accounts by figures including Tommy Robinson and Andrew Tate, who were accused of inciting people to join Islamophobic protests.

Musk, who has more than 205 million followers on X, responded by saying the MPs would be summoned to the US. He has previously complained that prison sentences handed down to people who stoked the riots on X are a breach of free speech rights and said: “I don’t think anyone should go to the UK when they’re releasing convicted paedophiles in order to imprison people for social media posts.”"

Billionaires and corporations (not just social media companies) already have far too much influence in government policy (not just in the US). Having Musk be a part of Trump's administration would embolden him and them to use their influence even further. Maybe it's all hot air from his side, but it could be the start of an (even more) dangerous precedent.

[tearknee]

10 hours ago, Makai said:

That’s reversed. On or before 1/20/27, Vance could be elected once. If he completes less than half of Trump’s term he can be elected to eight more years. 

Sorry, i wasn't that well when i was posting *sad smile* i hate my life.

[Is Everyone Gone]

There are a lot of casual MAGAs. My friend is like that. He doesn't follow the news except for sports scores, but votes MAGA every time because his wife is a hardcore MAGA and "my wife knows best."

[Spartan Girl]

@GHScorpiosRule I hope the Clinton event was great.

I’m drowning my sorrows in getting hyped for Wicked…which hits differently than it would have if Kamala won. I hate it here.

[Dimity]

I just found out the town I grew up in, in Quebec, is having fluoride removed from its water inspired in part by a petition from a far right extremist who follows RFK jr. Just great.

[bluegirl147]

10 hours ago, Is Everyone Gone said:

Here is the infamous interview. "Providing flights and hotel rooms for people that you're dating that are of legal age is not a crime."

 

Him specifying of legal age tells me there must have been instances of not of legal age. And I don't think Tucker is thinking you pervert. I think he is thinking dude shut up you are telling on yourself.

8 hours ago, kittykat said:

I tend to believe a fair amount of people invoked the General Hux Principle when voting: they didn't care if Trump won, they just wanted the liberals to lose.

And that is difference between them and me.  I vote for who I think is going to be the best choice for all of us.  I don't vote for someone just to make conservatives cry.  But if they do nothing I can do about that.

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

According to the NY Times, there is evidence that many of his supporters don't believe he's going to do some of the more extreme things he's promising. Like jail his enemies, etc. They project on him all the things they want to see but don't even believe him at his word when he says he's going to do things they don't like.

Au contraire I do think there is a frightening amount of Trump voters who voted for him because they think and hope he does jail his enemies. I remember after the 2016 election seeing people gleefully celebrating because they thought Hillary was either going to be executed or sent to Gitmo.  Although they never could explain what crime she committed except to say her emails.

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I won't theorize about who or what's to blame for this, it just is, and that's why I think so many more people are losing their way and becoming brainwashed.

I have no problem blaming who I think is responsible.  Fox News.  Social media companies that profit off all the lies that are spread on their platforms.  Republicans who exploit people's fear and ignorance.  And I blame people who don't vote because "both sides are bad".  If you can't see the difference between the two parties then the Republican party has succeeded. They don't have to make themselves look good. They just have to make Democrats look bad.

 

[Browncoat]

44 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I just found out the town I grew up in, in Quebec, is having fluoride removed from its water inspired in part by a petition from a far right extremist who follows RFK jr. Just great.

The dentists will be happy.

[Eri]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

According to the NY Times, there is evidence that many of his supporters don't believe he's going to do some of the more extreme things he's promising. Like jail his enemies, etc. They project on him all the things they want to see but don't even believe him at his word when he says he's going to do things they don't like.

This article was written before the election:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/us/elections/trump-promises-extreme-rhetoric.html

I've seen this too. Any interviews I've heard from MAGAs, "Not Trump," "Pro-life" and (scarily even) "Pro choice" conservatives from swing states (and anywhere really) over the last year has all been "Trump's just talking out his butt and just saying what he needs to in order get votes." 

"Of COURSE, he's not going to deport all those immigrants..just the murderers, rapists and gang leaders."

"Nah, he's not REALLY going to invoke a national abortion ban."

"Tariffs? Well...that's all speculation at this point"

Their mindset being that they can "read between the lines" of what Trump is saying vs what is actually happening....or they blindly think Congress will keep him in check despite all the rhetoric. Even people whose businesses will hurt by these tariffs will still give him the benefit of the doubt because of some other issue (abortion, immigration, crime, etc).

It doesn't seem to register to him that if a presidential candidate has to fearmonger like this in order to get votes, that is a problem in and of itself but whatever I guess 🙃

.....and despite ALL that they'll still vote for a higher minimum wage, paid sick leave, abortion protections or any progressive policy in their state. I just don't buy that not all of them are aware of the consequences - they simply do not care about the potential suffering to others.

Edited November 22 by Eri

[Yeah No]

I wrote this this morning after having long talks with two good friends yesterday. I hope it is taken in a positive way because that's the way it's intended.

The internet has made it easier to brainwash, mislead and control people's minds.  It has also made it easier to dehumanize and vilify other people, and has lead to extreme polarization and black and white thinking (us v.s them).

The anonymity factor of the internet has made it easier to disrespect other people and project onto them all the evils you imagine they have instead of getting to know them as human beings first to fact check that. It is much harder to really get to know people online. They can hide their true natures from us and present a fiction and you can project better qualities onto them if they fool you well enough. Back when I lived in NYC before the internet we always saw wackos standing on street corners wearing placards crying hate and all sorts of insane ideologies but it was much easier to assess that they were wackos and dismiss them when they were right in front of us. Now it's not so easy and the wackos have found ways to normalize and "sanewash" themselves online.

Sinister minds are using this to their advantage. While the internet has been around for over 3 decades now, they are getting better at their craft using newer and newer technologies to achieve it. They don't need to bomb us anymore to bring us as a nation to our knees. All they need is to brainwash us and turn us against each other. Trump talks about "the enemy within". Did he get that from Putin? Sounds kinda familiar.

People old enough to have been adults on Sept. 11 remember how the country came together as a whole and united against a clear enemy. Sinister minds saw that and realized that they had to turn us against each other to have power over us. And those of us old enough to remember how we united after Sept. 11 know how impossible that unification of our society would be today. Today our public is too divided against itself and even disagrees on who the real enemies are. We always had extremes in this country but they were much smaller groups with smaller voices and it wasn't as easy for them to take control of people's minds and turn us against each other in such large numbers in any organized, effective way before the internet.

The way I see young people talk today you'd think we were all racists, misogynists and homophobes living in some kind of 1950s sitcom before they were born. This is completely untrue. I have been told that I was living in some kind of "liberal bubble". I was NOT. There was NO WAY we would have had 50 years of Roe v. Wade and all the changes made by the civil rights movement, the legalization of gay marriage in all states, etc., if that were true. History does not support that conclusion. The problem is that the minority that's against these things have wormed their way into control over these matters against the will of the majority. 

And now they are finding better ways to recruit new people to their cause to expand their base. New impressionable minds that don't have a strong enough character to resist it. They are minds that need a scapegoat for all of their hurts and problems, and something or someone that accepts them even if it means rejecting others in the process. These people are too damaged to care about anyone else but themselves. And they have a big pool of people to draw from on this that have been bullied, left out and ostracized online and need to feel important. When someone comes along and gives them a scapegoat for all of their problems they are ripe for the picking. They tell them the reason they are feeling this way is because certain types and groups of people are trying to put them down and take their power away from them. So it's no wonder we have all this hatred and polarization going on. These are relatively uneducated people that don't remember or weren't part of the movement of the socially progressive majority so they don't have the foundation of values to resist this stuff. And we have a party that increasingly has sold its soul to the devil for the promise of power that's perfectly willing to exploit them for it.

Now I don't know about anyone else, but it's completely obvious to me that this situation has reached a head in only 23 years, and that's because it had a lot of help. Trump all by himself is a polarizing figure so he is responsible for a lot of it. But the sinister forces coming from outside our country are largely responsible for making this situation even worse and have been taking advantage of the Trump effect for their own purposes. We know they have been doing this online, it's been written and talked about by virtually everyone. I think it's of extreme importance to address this problem before it tears our country apart and renders us completely defenseless against any kind of takeover, whether it be political or by making us so ineffectual that we as a country can much less power.

We did not do this to ourselves all by ourselves. We were instigated into it every step of the way. And that is one big problem I think we need to address as Americans. We shouldn't be looking for ways to turn on each other, that only plays into their hands. We need to resist that and come together. Democrats in particular need to find a universal and consistent message that all of us agree upon, not get bogged down in where we disagree, because that just lets them win and keep winning. 

We also can't give in to finding fault with our Democracy, our freedom of speech and other rights and beliefs we hold dear. Those things are not the problem as I see it. Getting down on the U.S. and picking apart our Constitution is only going to hurt us not get us to where we want to be. If we want Americans to see the value in our party we can't allow ourselves to be identified as the party that hates America because again, that only feeds into the other side's hand and why they came up with the slogan, "Make America Great Again" and are all about being the party that loves America. We have to show that we love America too, the America we are in spirit if not in practice. The America we once were before we were all at each other's throats. We always disagreed but it was not on this level and we didn't have people going to these extremes in any large numbers. And we were able to concentrate on standing and fighting for what we believed in, not fighting with each other.

I personally think any kind of extremism is dangerous and not the answer. Think about what we believe in and agree upon and concentrate on that. Forget about what other people think of you. Look in the mirror and be the change you want to see in the world, stop pointing fingers at everyone else for why you are so oppressed and become more and more extreme as a result as you try to regain some power. That's what the other side does and you want to be the party of inclusion, acceptance and equality, not the party that descends to their level.

So anyway, that's my advice from my older person's point of view, and thank you for letting me rant.

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

@GHScorpiosRule I hope the Clinton event was great.

 

It was wonderful. And to finally see him in person! Yes, though I had my opera binoculars, I saw him through my camera with all the pictures I was taking!

He made us laugh, cheer, and as for me, also broke my heart when he talked about the death threats he and Hillary got after and during I think the 2016 election. Sen. Booker was there as the moderator, and they both joked and teased each other, and were also serious. It was just a...panacea for me last night.

Though I rolled my eyes at Booker saying he keeps the doors open for the likes of Cruz and Graham in order to get shit done.

[Dimity]

5 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

The way I see young people talk today you'd think we were all racists, misogynists and homophobes living in some kind of 1950s sitcom before they were born. This is completely untrue. I have been told that I was living in some kind of "liberal bubble". I was NOT. There was NO WAY we would have had 50 years of Roe v. Wade and all the changes made by the civil rights movement, the legalization of gay marriage in all states, etc., if that were true. History does not support that conclusion. The problem is that the minority that's against these things have wormed their way into control over these matters against the will of the majority. 

This.  Who do younger people think was responsible for getting Roe v. Wade passed in the first place?  For securing women the right to have a credit card in their own name? For ending segregation?  Now the minority who would never have supported any of this have succeeded in gaining control.  But because no one was talking about gay marriage in 1975 this means we were all bigots?  Emphatically no.

 

[Palimelon]

Hopefully this means people on both sides will be less triggered by other people's pronoun choices in 10 or 20 years.

Hopefully.

Edited November 22 by Palimelon

[Dimity]

18 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Though I rolled my eyes at Booker saying he keeps the doors open for the likes of Cruz and Graham in order to get shit done.

Have either of these men ever worked with the Dems to pass anything?  I don't follow US politics well enough to know if this was ever something either was known for.  Somehow recent history makes me doubt it.

[bluegirl147]

9 minutes ago, Dimity said:

Who do younger people think was responsible for getting Roe v. Wade passed in the first place?  For securing women the right to have a credit card in their own name? For ending segregation?  Now the minority who would never have supported any of this have succeeded in gaining control.  But because no one was talking about gay marriage in 1975 this means we were all bigots?  Emphatically no.

Younger people take for granted the rights they (as of now) have.  They also tend to have that it won't happen to me attitude as most young people do. 

21 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Though I rolled my eyes at Booker saying he keeps the doors open for the likes of Cruz and Graham in order to get shit done.

You  never hear a Republican say that.  

[Palimelon]

Quote

I have no problem blaming who I think is responsible.  Fox News.  Social media companies that profit off all the lies that are spread on their platforms.  Republicans who exploit people's fear and ignorance. 

And including:

Don’t underestimate the Rogansphere. His mammoth ecosystem is Fox News for young people.

"Podcasts like Joe Rogan’s and Theo Von’s aren’t on the fringes. Their blend of off-the-cuff, Trump-leaning commentary blurs traditional lines between left and right – and offers listeners companionship."

[partofme]

27 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

People old enough to have been adults on Sept. 11 remember how the country came together as a whole and united against a clear enemy

I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 and this is not the away I remember it at all.   I remember a lot of fear mongering and an atmosphere of intimidation where you were made to feel like the enemy if you dared to speak up against Dubya and Cheney and their lies.  It was not a good time.  

[Yeah No]

Just now, partofme said:

I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 and this is not the away I remember it at all.   I remember a lot of fear mongering and an atmosphere of intimidation where you were made to feel like the enemy if you dared to speak up against Dubya and Cheney and their lies.  It was not a good time.  

That's interesting, I'm a New Yorker and was still living closer to NYC at that time. My father lived there and I stayed down with him for a time after 9/11 and among my friends and I down there this was not our experience at all. In my experience people put their political differences on the back burner and came together on what united us. Plus the differences between us back then feel like nits compared to today. YMMV.

[Dimity]

6 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Younger people take for granted the rights they (as of now) have.  They also tend to have that it won't happen to me attitude as most young people do. 

I get the frustration and anger they feel but I would appreciate it if they could try a little harder not to lump all the generations who came before them into the same pile!  What many of them can't seem to see is that we are also angry and frustrated but we're also incredibly disappointed.   We are seeing all the progress we worked for going up in flames because of the greed of a handful of billionaires and the ignorance of those who support them.

[Palimelon]

Quote

I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 and this is not the away I remember it at all.   I remember a lot of fear mongering and an atmosphere of intimidation where you were made to feel like the enemy if you dared to speak up against Dubya and Cheney and their lies.  It was not a good time.  

Also it depended on your religion and/or ethnicity too.

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, partofme said:

I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 and this is not the away I remember it at all.   I remember a lot of fear mongering and an atmosphere of intimidation where you were made to feel like the enemy if you dared to speak up against Dubya and Cheney and their lies.  It was not a good time.  

By the way, my first boyfriend in HS was injured when the first tower fell. He was a Daily News photographer that also taught classes in photography at NYU, a Jew and a lifelong Democrat. He was thrown about 20 feet before he hit the ground and shattered both legs. He was rescued by firefighters, to whom he is still to this day very indebted and credits with saving his life. He doesn't give two craps what their political views are. To him they are people that put their lives at risk to save others regardless of their political views. Americans that loved their country and were in service to it. And that's typical of what I'm talking about and my experience in NYC with other New Yorkers as a result of 9/11. Too bad it didn't last!

Edited November 22 by Yeah No

[bluegirl147]

9 minutes ago, partofme said:

I was living in Manhattan on 9/11 and this is not the away I remember it at all.   I remember a lot of fear mongering and an atmosphere of intimidation where you were made to feel like the enemy if you dared to speak up against Dubya and Cheney and their lies.  It was not a good time.  

I mentioned the other day that a radio DJ in my local area said he would spit on Muslims in the days immediately after 9/11.  There absolutely was a lot of fear mongering and I do think that is when the "othering" started being more blatant with some politicians. It also led to the Patriot Act.  Our invading a country on false intel outright lies. GWB saying things like if you aren't with us you are against us. Congress changing French fries to freedom fries.  Anti war protesters being called anti American.  I could go on and on. 

I stand by my belief if Al Gore had not had the election decided by five Supreme Court Justices and he was president 9/11 would not have happened.

[Yeah No]

8 minutes ago, Dimity said:

I get the frustration and anger they feel but I would appreciate it if they could try a little harder not to lump all the generations who came before them into the same pile!  What many of them can't seem to see is that we are also angry and frustrated but we're also incredibly disappointed.   We are seeing all the progress we worked for going up in flames because of the greed of a handful of billionaires and the ignorance of those who support them.

Exactly this. I have thought this many times myself.

[Dimity]

What disappointed me is that I honestly thought younger people, especially those who came to voting age in the Time of Trump, would have been rushing to vote to ensure that he never saw the inside of the Oval Office again.  From what I read overall young voters did support Harris but there was a shift towards Trump.  I just can't even with that but those who would prefer to demonize the older generations and play the blame game here need to take a hard look at this because this is the trend that should really worry us.  I know it worries - and baffles - me.

[partofme]

19 minutes ago, Palimelon said:

Also it depended on your religion and/or ethnicity too.

I’m white and Catholic, there was a lot of fear mongering and intimidation to fall in line after 9/11 in general, the Bush administration felt a lot like Trump in trying to hush up dissent and covering up their failures.  

[Palimelon]

True, but some of us at the time weren't feeling it only from the government.

[partofme]

14 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I stand by my belief if Al Gore had not had the election decided by five Supreme Court Justices and he was president 9/11 would not have happened.

I feel like there’s at least a chance 9/11 wouldn’t have happened, Gore at least wouldn’t have ignored the warning like Dubya did, Bush was told we were going to be attacked by airplane and he did nothing to beef up airport security, not to mention his administration ignoring the Clinton administration’s warnings about Bin Laden because he was more concerned about Sadam Hussan and getting revenge for his daddy.  

[tearknee]

Pacifism not tempered by realism is inherently incompetent and stupid to me.

"No to any intervention but we can show solidarity with whatever underground resistance exists" doesn't work too well given that most authoritarian and dictatorial regimes have a monopoly of force in their country. Sanctions don't work too well if the regime has an ally that has nukes (PRC or Putin), and the country has its own resources which may be considerable. 

 

[partofme]

21 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

By the way, my first boyfriend in HS was injured when the first tower fell. He was a Daily News photographer that also taught classes in photography at NYU, a Jew and a lifelong Democrat. He was thrown about 20 feet before he hit the ground and shattered both legs. He was rescued by firefighters, to whom he is still to this day very indebted and credits with saving his life. He doesn't give two craps what their political views are. To him they are people that put their lives at risk to save others regardless of their political views. Americans that loved their country and were in service to it. And that's typical of what I'm talking about and my experience in NYC with other New Yorkers as a result of 9/11. Too bad it didn't last!

I’m really happy your friend was okay, and I have nothing against any of the first responders, they are all heroes, I’m talking about Republican politicians, they created a really bad atmosphere in the US post 9/11, I lived in New York and there was no coming together in any real way.  

[Yeah No]

7 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I mentioned the other day that a radio DJ in my local area said he would spit on Muslims in the days immediately after 9/11.  There absolutely was a lot of fear mongering and I do think that is when the "othering" started being more blatant with some politicians. It also led to the Patriot Act.  Our invading a country on false intel outright lies. GWB saying things like if you aren't with us you are against us. Congress changing French fries to freedom fries.  Anti war protesters being called anti American.  I could go on and on. 

Sure there was stuff like that but the average American wasn't tuned into local DJs and they didn't have the widespread control over people's opinions that they do today. And everyone I know thought the Freedom Fries thing was ridiculous including Republicans I worked with at the time who cringed at the idea.

And I was talking about NYC and what was going on there. I personally had no problem speaking my mind and if anyone felt intimidated I'm sorry they felt that way but I don't let people intimidate me like that. Of course I don't walk up to people and advertise what I think either. Within reason.

And when the country is under a real attack I don't think it's hard to understand saying things like "you're with us or against us", although that may be a poor choice of words open to interpretation. This was a very real threat to our country but this was W so I consider the source. I immediately regretted voting for him as historically I've voted overwhelmingly Democratic.

I didn't agree with painting all Muslims with the same brush and those that wanted mosques shut down and moved away from them in NY were seen as fringe wackos by many NYers were and I believe any movement about that was squelched by the gov't. anyway. They were by far not like a big MAGA movement like we have today comprised of 50% or more of the electorate. So in context I think it was not that significant. You can always cite things from history but they were not representative of the general feeling of the time as far as I and many NYers I have talked with over the years feel about this.

[Palimelon]

NYC is not America.

[Yeah No]

13 minutes ago, Dimity said:

What disappointed me is that I honestly thought younger people, especially those who came to voting age in the Time of Trump, would have been rushing to vote to ensure that he never saw the inside of the Oval Office again.  From what I read overall young voters did support Harris but there was a shift towards Trump.  I just can't even with that but those who would prefer to demonize the older generations and play the blame game here need to take a hard look at this because this is the trend that should really worry us.  I know it worries - and baffles - me.

Wow you are really taking the words right out of my mouth today. Again I have thought this many, many times and it baffles me too. 

Also if not for many older people we never would have had so many Democratic presidents over the past 60 years or so. A lot of those voters have died in the past decade or so, my father included, which is regrettable, and now we're seeing the younger generation not getting up and voting or shifting right, so it's a bad combination.

[bluegirl147]

10 minutes ago, Dimity said:

What disappointed me is that I honestly thought younger people, especially those who came to voting age in the Time of Trump, would have been rushing to vote to ensure that he never saw the inside of the Oval Office again.  From what I read overall young voters did support Harris but there was a shift towards Trump.  I just can't even with that but those who would prefer to demonize the older generations and play the blame game here need to take a hard look at this because this is the trend that should really worry us.  I know it worries - and baffles - me.

I think young men and this might sound silly, but they grew up watching WWE and UFC fighters.  They like tough guys. Doesn't matter Trump isn't actually a tough guy but he plays one on TV. And as someone above mentioned people like Joe Rogan like Trump so these young men are going along with what their peers are doing.

13 minutes ago, partofme said:

the Bush administration felt a lot like Trump in trying to hush up dissent and covering up their failures.

The difference is I think at least Bush knew some things were failing but Trump will die saying everything he did was great. The best.  Winning.

9 minutes ago, partofme said:

not to mention his administration ignoring the Clinton administration’s warnings about Bin Laden because he was more concerned about Sadam Hussan and getting revenge for his daddy.  

Could you imagine?  Caring so little about what would happen to our soldiers because you wanted to avenge you father.  I know that isn't the only reason we went to war in Iraq. Cheney's company making billions also was a factor.  But Bush definitely had a hard on for Saddam Hussein because of his daddy.

[tearknee]

When people are frightened, and they are angry they are not that willing to show restraint.

Which is why the begging for diplomacy etc. after 9/11 actually made things much worse than they needed to be.