Chit-Chat: The Feels

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Anela said:

So, nothing about the hypocrisy of the GOP charging him for something they would be fighting against, for everyone else? They’re just expected to be assholes, so it’s a given, and nothing to fret over? 

We all know the GOP believe everyone should have guns.  Except Hunter Biden of course. 

[Dimity]

And again fixating on Biden pardoning his son when we are about to enter into the Trump The Vengeance Tour  era is just so pointless.   We are all going to have far bigger concerns all too soon.

[Dimity]

[peacheslatour]

Holy shit, a man convicted in a court of law by ordinary Americans of 34 felonies and an adjudicated rapist is about to take the highest office in the country and we're supposed to be outraged by some piddling unregistered guns and tax tomfoolery of an un-elected private citizen who has no bearing on the laws and policies of said ordinary Americans?

Edited December 6 by peacheslatour

[Dimity]

6 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Holy shit, a man convicted in a court of law by regular Americans of 34 felonies and an adjudicated rapist is about to take the highest office in the country and we're supposed to be outraged by some piddling unregistered guns and tax tomfoolery of an un-elected private citizen who has no bearing on the laws and policies of said ordinary Americans?

We've really entered into the "but aside from that how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln" territory.  Or perhaps it's the Twilight Zone.  Has anyone seen Rod Serling lately?

[bluegirl147]

14 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Holy shit, a man convicted in a court of law by regular Americans of 34 felonies and an adjudicated rapist is about to take the highest office in the country and we're supposed to be outraged by some piddling unregistered guns and tax tomfoolery of an un-elected private citizen who has no bearing on the laws and policies of said ordinary Americans?

And this is what we call gaslighting.

 

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

We all know the GOP believe everyone should have guns.  Except Hunter Biden of course. 

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah, that particular detail stood out to me, too. 

[FilmTVGeek80]

15 hours ago, 27bored said:

See this is what I'm talking about. There's more than one way to skin a cat. There's more than one way to do the things you stated without looking directly responsible, and when you have most of the media and academia and Hollywood in your back pocket, it's easy to look above board. But my point with that statement was that, Democrats can talk a good game but when they have to, they have no problem being cravenly opportunistic. It's not really an indictment unless you're under the impression that Dems Good/Republicans Bad at all times. Democrats like power, they'll do whatever they can to hold on to it, they'll tell smiling lies, and they'll step on whomever they have to to get and keep power. 

You know why academia is in the Dems "back pocket?" Because the Dems are not a bunch of dumbasses, like most modern Republicans. Of course, those in the academic field are on their side. They tend to be on the side of people who don't ignore things like science and logic. Please show me how most of the media are on the Dems side? Most of the media is owned by asshole Republican billionaires. They're not on anyone's side but their own.

Who said the Dems were above board at all times? But trying to compare them to 45 and his ilk is ludicrous and you know it because really the only examples that you can come up with is Hillary and her emails and Joe Biden pardoning Hunter as if that in anyway compares to the disgusting behavior and crimes of the MAGA crew.  Sure there are corrupt and criminal Dems, but generally speaking, the reaction to them is not a shrug of shoulders or high-fiveing them like the Republicans do.

 

15 hours ago, 27bored said:

I have "no evidence" he was lying?? He, and his surrogates, said repeatedly that he would not pardon Hunter, but then he did. Whether some people just believe he changed his mind is their own business; I think he was clearly lying when he denied he would. We don't have to play Lie Detector because at the end of the day, he said wasn't going to do something but then wound up doing it. To many people, Democrat and Republican alike, that calls into question Biden's integrity. From a political standpoint, it makes it hard for the same Democrats who believed Joe to then run the same morality play against Trump and Republicans. The next time Trump has says something untrue, are Democrats going to let it slide as a Senior Moment, a change of heart, or make some other excuse, or are they just going to shriek that he's a liar over and over again?

Yes, to accuse someone of "plainly" lying you have to have evidence that they were indeed lying. People are allowed to change their minds when the circumstances change. That's not lying. To many people, that's pretty clear. And, no it does not make it harder to call out 45's lies unless you're living in Bizarro World. 

 

15 hours ago, 27bored said:

Again: that's the spin the Democrats are running with, but it's simply not true. The judge who presided over Hunter's case even spoke out against Joe rewriting history. 

Like I said, I don't believe Joe ever had any intention on Hunter going to prison and he's always had the power to pardon him irrespective of his claims not to have any intention of doing so. But what actually happened was Republicans were looking into Hunter's foreign dealings and possibly kicking back money to Joe that he obtained from foreign countries. The DOJ was under pressure to investigate him, so they figured they would charge him with something relatively minor...just to quell interest and shut people up. They planned on giving him a sweetheart plea deal for the gun form and tried to tack the very serious and legitimately criminal tax charges he was facing on the plea. The judge called out the DOJ on it and would not sign the plea deal as the tax charges were not even before him. That's why he even went to trial in the first place...because the DOJ tried playing fast-and-loose and got their hand slapped. 

At the end of the day, Hunter did lie on the gun form about using drugs, and he averred that he had withheld over a million dollars in taxes to fund his lifestyle. This wasn't some made-up right-wing rumor; he literally admitted to doing it. So this idea that Hunter is being treated like the redheaded stepchild by the law is and always has been bullshit. 

You want to talk about spin. Can you provide proof that they charged Hunter with something just to "shut people up"? That's Republican spin. Who cares if it was a sweetheart deal. Those are allowed. 

And, at the end of the day, who is saying that Hunter isn't guilty of some of the crimes he's being accused of? The reality is that anyone else other than him would have also gotten a sweetheart deal because lying on a form and tax evasion, especially when you pay those taxes back, don't usually have you potentially facing 25 years in prison. The Republicans made no secret that they were going after Hunter to get to Joe. if you want to blindly pretend that was not what was happening, that's your call, but doesn't change the reality. And, guess what, they never found anything to pin on Joe. Their impeachment quest was as pathetic and inept as they are.

15 hours ago, 27bored said:

It's like I keep saying: Democrats can't saying Democrats are better than Republicans even when they do the same thing Republicans do. No, that just makes them the other side of the same coin. All I'm saying is stop moral preening about people being above the law or someone being a threat to democracy. It's easy to say that when your ass, or the ass of someone you like, isn't in the hot seat.

Hillary, Joe Biden, Mike Pence, and Donald Trump all were found to have had classified documents in their private possession. The only person facing any kind of charges over it is Trump.

"Well that's because they cooperated!" Aside from the fact that that's not true for Hillary, nor is that a legitimate legal defense for actually mishandling classified information, no, it's because Trump is the only person seen as a political threat. When it comes to the law, what somebody else did is irrelevant. I mean, this is stuff you learn in elementary school. You can't excuse away breaking the rules because somebody else did it. So when those charges fail to move anybody who likes Trump, nobody should be surprised or upset or outraged. Because again, if it was your guy, they would do the same exact thing. 

Why do you keep trying to pretend that all lies and sins are the same? That's like me saying a jaywalker is the same as a serial killer. Yes, 45 and his MAGA boneheads are a threat to democracy. Dems are not pure and perfect, but they are better than them. Most of them have a hell of a lot more integrity and sanity than that orange felon.

Yes, what Pence and Biden did is different than 45. First of all, intent does matter. Neither Pence or Biden had intent to steal classified documents. 45 did. And you may try to dismiss the argument that they cooperated, but that is the point. Not some Republican conspiracy theory that poor, innocent 45 was just minding his own business and was being persecuted. And it's not because he's a political threat. It's because he's an UNREPENTANT SERIAL CRIMINAL. They bent over backwards to not charge 45. All he had to do was give them the documents back. That's it. But the narcissistic jerk-off thinks that he gets to do whatever he wants, said no, then tried to hide them. Why exactly shouldn't he have been charged? And, given you seem to think 45 is just being targeted because of politics what about all of his other crimes. How about him riling up a crowd and sending them off to commit violence at the Capitol. Any Democrats do something like that? How about him calling and asking for Georgia officials to "find him" more votes? How about him and his fake electors trying to steal an election? What Democrats have done that? Wait, I'm sorry. Joe Biden "lied" and pardoned his son. Yeah, that's the same. 

Edited December 6 by FilmTVGeek80

[Yeah No]

On 12/3/2024 at 1:32 PM, FilmTVGeek80 said:

I’m well aware that road rage is a real thing. Which is why I don’t do things to provoke other drivers - or try not to. And yet, I also don’t feel the need to shame someone for ONE incident that happened ages ago and resulted in no harm. So, yes, I think you’re making a mountain out of a molehill over a small anecdote/incident that’s probably been forgotten about by the original commenter and the other driver - who if they even saw or heard the obscenity probably moved on with their life because it wasn’t a big deal to them. 

No, I'm not going to own that. And I wasn't trying to shame anyone, but you're trying to shame me right here. I don't agree with doing that for several reasons, not the least of which is how something like that might be received if seen or heard and what it does to US to hold onto such hatred. No shame intended, just disagreement with reasons.

And if anyone was making a mountain out of a molehill it's taking a person's choice of car to mean that they're some kind of evil person that deserves being called a slur. Really? That's a big assumption to make and one that could very likely be unfair as well.

I have been a victim of road rage so I beg to differ with you on how that can escalate from something unintended or innocuous to something dangerous. And BTW, windows were closed and nothing was intended to be seen when it happened to me either.

And I will never stand for a world where those things are dismissed as "not a big deal". Maybe you're different but I never get over those kinds of things. They're demoralizing and evidence of the escalating nastiness and polarization in our society. It's something I want to see changed in general. Anything that fans the flames of hatred even in someone's own heart isn't good for them or the world in the big picture, no matter how small or seemingly inconsequential. I feel so strongly about that I would have that written on my tombstone if I could.

[Yeah No]

On 12/3/2024 at 5:18 PM, kittykat said:

Anyhow, I haven't been here a few days but I'll weigh in on Lantern yelling at a cyber truck.  It was just yelling for Pete's sake.  I've spent the last month angry and tired, I tried burying myself in Thanksgiving and Xmas decor but it's felt more like the bargaining stage of grief. I'm tired of being so angry but it's not going away any time soon.  Besides why are we all weighing the morality of yelling at cars when prior to the election multiple cars and lawn signs displaying Harris/Walz were vandalized, stolen and damaged because the other side couldn't contain their rage?  

See above. It's not so much about morality as it's just not good for the soul or ultimately society to harbor such anger that you would yell like that at a passing truck. My ultimate goal is to be at peace not to let anger fester and control me. I am not above it myself but at least I can admit that.

Anger can become destructive to us and the world in the long run, even justifiable anger. My goal is to work through anger to find some peace of mind and heart. Otherwise we continue the cycle of demonization and polarization in our society. And that's not the country I grew up in or I want to live in. Things were never perfect but they have gotten to a fever pitch in our society. Everyone's pitted against each other. Being outraged, petty and judgmental about someone's choice of car is over the top if you ask me. It's easy to see how "wrong" "the other side" is about what they do but we have to look at ourselves and check whether we're as bad as they are. And I hate to say it but at times I think we can be.

[Yeah No]

On 12/4/2024 at 11:42 AM, bluegirl147 said:

Jon Stewart has been bugging me for awhile.  He along with Bill Maher are always criticizing what Democrats do.  I know Democrats aren't perfect but compared to the Republicans in office they are miles better.  And to criticize Biden for this one pardon, which yes was from the heart, and not take Trump to task for the many many pardons he issued and will be issuing is just ridiculous. 

I hate it that Democrats in general are always criticizing each other. If you want to unite your party to defeat the other party you can't be that critical of it. I get it that they want to appear more balanced and not biased but there are ways to do that without turning on your party. When the opposing side is so united it looks bad to try to find that much fault with your own. That's how elections are lost.

Quote

And speaking of pardons I saw that clown Joe Manchin (he can't leave soon enough)say Biden should pardon Trump. In the name of unity and moving on or some bullshit.  You never fucking hear anyone say Republicans should play nice and get together with Democrats and sing Kumbaya. But Democrats are always expected to be the bigger person.  I don't remember if it was when Kevin McCarthy or Mike Johnson running for Speaker of the House and not getting enough Republican votes and people saying some Democrats should help a brother out.  And I thought are you fucking kidding me.

I think Republicans always throw this back at Democrats because they see them as claiming to stand for the moral high ground, so when it looks to Republicans like they failed to do it they are somehow more hypocritical than they are. Republicans know they don't stand for any moral high ground so they think they can do what they want and not be called out as hypocrites. But that is where they are wrong. They are still even bigger hypocrites and liars and they may fool their own but they're not fooling any of us. 

On 12/4/2024 at 5:56 PM, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Hunter Biden was targeted because of who his father is - and they didn’t even try to hide it.

LOL bringing up the Big Guy thing. Is that supposed to be some mark against him? All politicians - and humans - occasionally lie. That doesn’t mean they’re not honorable, good people. I can say that Joe Biden is. I can’t say the same about the convicted felon.

Joe was willing to let him go through the process because he trusted the legal system to treat him fairly. But, that’s not what happened. Anyone else facing similar charges wouldn’t have been facing prison time, especially after working out a plea deal. Instead the Republicans put pressure to get the deal rescinded. Maybe if the guy coming in to the White House wasn’t a sociopath who has made it clear his number one mission is a revenge tour against anyone he feels has wronged him, Biden’s reaction would be different. Maybe if that sociopath didn’t just nominate a man to head the FBI with a literal revenge list that includes the Biden’s. But that’s not the reality we sadly find ourselves in. So, yes, he CHANGED HIS MIND. Like any good and loving parent would do.

LOL at trying to pin any issues the Democratic Party is having on this decision. The reason many stand by 45 is they don’t care about his lies and sociopathy. They’re only interested in the things that they - falsely - think he can do for them. But, sure go ahead and tell the media to fuck off when they point out 45´s lies. As if it will be the first time. In fact, if they go after him with the same fervor they go after President Biden, it will be a pleasant sight to see. Because look around - there are plenty in the media clutching their pearls about Hunter’s pardon. You can’t really accuse them of hypocrisy since they’re going after him the way you would like.
 

Spare me this idea that the Dems don’t do what is right. They bend over backwards - to many people’s detriments - to do what is right. When Dems were upset that 45 won in 2016, they held peaceful marches. They didn’t storm the Capitol and smear shit over the walls. When Al Franken was pictured and accused of sexual misconduct, they forced him out. They didn’t run him for President. When Bob Menendez was accused of crimes they didn’t whine he was being politically persecuted because, unlike Hunter Biden, he wasn’t. They forced him to resign. Not all Dems are good and there are liars and criminals in their ranks. Dems have a lot of problems and issues. But to pretend like both sides are even close to the same is a sick joke. 

I agree with your entire post. I think Joe changed his mind because he realized that the justice dept. would never be fair to his son. He might have been remembering a "kinder/gentler" time when things were fairer but I think his family made him see the light on that. I also think he made those statements about not pardoning Hunter precisely because at the time he thought those charges would amount to nothing because they were so trumped up to begin with. But that's sadly not the world we're living in today as Biden found out. I also wonder how much Biden may have been banking on winning a second term at the time, too, so he gambled on never having to eat those words. Again, in other times that may have been an easy bet, but not anymore, and not with Trump in the picture.

And yes I often think Democrats bend over backwards to "do the right thing" even if it is to their own disadvantage. And in this case I think Joe WAS still trying to do the right thing, in this case for his family. 

And I think the only reason they went after Hunter at all is because they couldn't find anything on Joe himself. So they picked over Hunter like a carcass to find any "meat" they could to use against him as a way to reflect poorly on his father. 

The ironic thing is that from what I read Trump made some kind of comment that made people think he was actually sympathetic to Joe pardoning Biden because don't you think Trump would have done the exact same thing if the situation were reversed? But Trump's not going to make a big deal out of that if his people will find fault with Biden and call him a liar over it because that only benefits him in the long run.

Edited December 6 by Yeah No

[Yeah No]

Never mind, mistake.

Edited December 6 by Yeah No

[fastiller]

12 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

We all know the GOP believe everyone should have guns.  Except Hunter Biden of course. 

Indeed.  And people of color. 

[bluegirl147]

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I get it that they want to appear more balanced and not biased but there are ways to do that without turning on your party.

That might be true for some but for a lot of them they get mad that they aren't getting everything they want from Democrats. So they throw a temper tantrum and take their ball home and don't vote.  Meanwhile the Republican party is plotting on how to take that ball and the home as well. And even maybe the right to vote. I can't remember where I read the article but it was about some Michigan voters who were mad about Biden's and by extension Harris's dealing with the Israel/Hamas war.  One commenter said they weren't voting for the Democrats and it was specifically to punish them. Now we are all going to be punished.

4 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Republicans know they don't stand for any moral high ground so they think they can do what they want and not be called out as hypocrites.

There is a lot of truth to that.  Their base doesn't care.  The media ignores a lot of it.  It started before Trump but he gave them license to be unapologetically hateful. 

 

7 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

. They tend to be on the side of people who don't ignore things like science and logic

And why Republicans love the uneducated.

7 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Most of the media is owned by asshole Republican billionaires. They're not anyone's side but their own.

And fewer and fewer. So much of the media has been consolidated.  Rupert Murdoch owns how many media outlets?  Sinclair owns several local TV stations.  Saw where Bezos said he was proud of the Washington Post not endorsing a presidential candidate.  Maybe he wants to be buddy buddy with Trump like Elon Musk.

7 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Sure their are corrupt and criminal Dems, but generally speaking, the reaction to them is not a shrug of shoulders or high-fiveing them like the Republicans do.

One only need to look at Trump's cabinet nominees.  Or one of his SCOTUS picks.  If a Obama or Biden had put up a nominee who even had a whisper of a sexual assault allegation they would have had their name pulled so fast.  Al Franken was gone after a kiss.  John Edwards career was over after fathering a child during an extramarital affair.  As I type this the Republican led House is refusing to disclose the ethics report about Matt Gaetz. He isn't even going to be there anymore and they are still covering for him.

7 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

You want to talk about spin. Can you provide proof that they charged Hunter with something just to "shut people up"? That's Republican spin.

If Republicans say it then it must be true.  Meanwhile Trump is convicted in a court of law by a preponderous of the evidence and it's called a witch hunt.

7 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Dems are not pure and perfect, but they are better than them.

I don't understand how any non Republican can't understand that.  Name one good thing Republicans have given us in the last 50 years.  They fight against everything good and when people start liking those things then they stand up and take credit for them.  Until they try to repeal them.

 

[FilmTVGeek80]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

No, I'm not going to own that. And I wasn't trying to shame anyone, but you're trying to shame me right here. I don't agree with doing that for several reasons, not the least of which is how something like that might be received if seen or heard and what it does to US to hold onto such hatred. No shame intended, just disagreement with reasons.

And if anyone was making a mountain out of a molehill it's taking a person's choice of car to mean that they're some kind of evil person that deserves being called a slur. Really? That's a big assumption to make and one that could very likely be unfair as well.

I have been a victim of road rage so I beg to differ with you on how that can escalate from something unintended or innocuous to something dangerous. And BTW, windows were closed and nothing was intended to be seen when it happened to me either.

And I will never stand for a world where those things are dismissed as "not a big deal". Maybe you're different but I never get over those kinds of things. They're demoralizing and evidence of the escalating nastiness and polarization in our society. It's something I want to see changed in general. Anything that fans the flames of hatred even in someone's own heart isn't good for them or the world in the big picture, no matter how small or seemingly inconsequential. I feel so strongly about that I would have that written on my tombstone if I could.

I’m not sure how repeatedly telling someone how horribly wrong you found their actions and, now, basically saying doing it means they have hate in their heart ISN’T shaming them. I’ll own that I’m doing something similar to you. But, yes, you are doing it too even if you don’t feel that’s your intent. 
 

I already said I realize that road rage is a real thing that happens. I never said something innocent can’t escalate. BUT that’s not what happened here. Yes, it could have but it didn’t so, yeah, I think you’re making a bigger deal of this than necessary. I get that you think doing something like that is petty. That your worldview is that is something harmful to the soul and the world. It’s fine if that’s your view and how you want to live your life, but you can’t force that worldview onto others no matter how strongly you feel about it.

I’m not going to continue to go round and round about this. I think both of our positions are clear. Last thing I’ll say about this is that, funnily enough, I saw one of those cars for the first time out in the wild today. I had an adverse reaction to it, not because of Musk but because of this discussion here. I almost put up my middle finger in solidarity with the original poster. And, yeah, there’s no way that car would have seen it with the way it’s designed. I guess it’s supposed to look futuristic and badass, but just looks so unsightly.

[Ohiopirate02]

24 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

And fewer and fewer. So much of the media has been consolidated.  Rupert Murdoch owns how many media outlets?  Sinclair owns several local TV stations.  Saw where Bezos said he was proud of the Washington Post not endorsing a presidential candidate.  Maybe he wants to be buddy buddy with Trump like Elon Musk.

 

I don't get the impression that Bezos wants to be buddy-buddy with Trump. I think he forced his paper to not endorse Harris because he did not want to be on Trump's hit list come January. He's hedging his bets here.

[Yeah No]

16 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

That might be true for some but for a lot of them they get mad that they aren't getting everything they want from Democrats. So they throw a temper tantrum and take their ball home and don't vote.  Meanwhile the Republican party is plotting on how to take that ball and the home as well. And even maybe the right to vote. I can't remember where I read the article but it was about some Michigan voters who were mad about Biden's and by extension Harris's dealing with the Israel/Hamas war.  One commenter said they weren't voting for the Democrats and it was specifically to punish them. Now we are all going to be punished.

Sometimes I wonder what the motive is for some TV hosts. For a long time it seemed like the ones that are now becoming critical of Democratic candidates were squarely positive about them. These days they are not. I don't really believe they've all changed their minds and have suddenly become that disenchanted with them. I wonder if some of it is because they think being more critical of Democrats is the "popular" opinion, and they do it to attract viewers that may be on the edge politically. Suddenly everyone started to talk about how many more independents there were out there than there once were, so they had to think about ratings. These same hosts still criticize Republicans but it seems more watered down now that they are also being more critical of Democrats and at the same time more positive about Republicans. What bothers me is that I think they are going too far with this and it's having a negative effect on people's opinions of Democrats, often unfairly. The right has enough hosts and pundits that never criticize Republicans so now it's skewed toward more criticism of Democrats from everyone.

[fastiller]

52 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

There is a lot of truth to that.  Their base doesn't care.  The media ignores a lot of it.  It started before Trump but he gave them license to be unapologetically hateful. 

 

And fewer and fewer. So much of the media has been consolidated.  Rupert Murdoch owns how many media outlets?  Sinclair owns several local TV stations.  Saw where Bezos said he was proud of the Washington Post not endorsing a presidential candidate.  Maybe he wants to be buddy buddy with Trump like Elon Musk.

 

26 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I don't get the impression that Bezos wants to be buddy-buddy with Trump. I think he forced his paper to not endorse Harris because he did not want to be on Trump's hit list come January. He's hedging his bets here.

WRT @bluegirl147's comment about Trump giving people license to be hateful: John Fugelsang said the country is like an old couch (hey now, JD, calm down!!! 😁😁😁!) and Trump is the blacklight showing the stains of hate and racism.

WRT the other quoted sections: Bezos was performing what's known as Obedience in Advance.  It's one of the first things people do as an authoritarian regime takes hold. 

Edited December 6 by fastiller
word choice; clarity

[bluegirl147]

13 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

. I wonder if some of it is because they think being more critical of Democrats is the "popular" opinion, and they do it to attract viewers that may be on the edge politically.

There is no way I believe everyone working at Fox News believe what they say.  But maybe they pay more.

After the 2012 election we heard the Republican party was dead. They did an autopsy.  Conclusion was they needed to be more inclusive.  Friendlier to people of color and LGTBQ. And then Trump came on the scene. And the party moved farther right.  Became even more hostile to people of color and LGTBQ.

And here we are in 2024 and it's the Democratic Party who is being dissected and examined for what went wrong. It is always going to baffle me how a party so identified with hate keeps winning. And I don't want to hear it's the economy.  Because history shows Republicans always drive it in a ditch. I wonder if it's as simple as Republican voters are happy to blindly believe what their candidates say while (some) Democratic voters expect things not easily attained. 

[Yeah No]

12 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

There is no way I believe everyone working at Fox News believe what they say.  But maybe they pay more.

True, and unless you're someone like Juan Williams you don't get to say what you really think. And I even think he's being controlled too.

Quote

And here we are in 2024 and it's the Democratic Party who is being dissected and examined for what went wrong. It is always going to baffle me how a party so identified with hate keeps winning. And I don't want to hear it's the economy.  Because history shows Republicans always drive it in a ditch. I wonder if it's as simple as Republican voters are happy to blindly believe what their candidates say while (some) Democratic voters expect things not easily attained. 

I just can't believe how many people can be blind to the effect that Republicans tend to have on the deficit for one thing. 

But I also think Trump tapped into a growing resentment and feeling of being put down and deliberately left out by people in the South and Midwest. The South always had those resentments toward the North or whoever stood for "the North" in their minds. It's just that no politician, even any Republican politician before Trump was able to feed into that resentment to gain their allegiance and their votes by making them think they were on their side and represented their interests "against" the rest of the "elites" in the "Blue" states.

[FilmTVGeek80]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

I can't remember where I read the article but it was about some Michigan voters who were mad about Biden's and by extension Harris's dealing with the Israel/Hamas war.  One commenter said they weren't voting for the Democrats and it was specifically to punish them. Now we are all going to be punished.

I don’t get comments like that. Biden’s a good man and will be, on some level, hurt by 45’s damage to the country and crapping on his accomplishments. Hell, the reason he said he got back in the race was because of his disgust over Charlottesville. But, ultimately, he’s a rich white guy who will be fine in retirement surrounded by a loving family. It can be argued Kamala was hurt worse. I do wonder what her political prospects could possibly be now. But, like Hilary, I think she’ll be fine in her career and life. Like you said, it’s regular people who have to face the consequences. But, that’s an acceptable risk to people like that.

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

Saw where Bezos said he was proud of the Washington Post not endorsing a presidential candidate.  Maybe he wants to be buddy buddy with Trump like Elon Musk.

Whether it’s to be buddy-buddy or not get on his bad side, Bezos definitely seems to want to pander to 45. I read a headline on Bluesky where Bezos said he thought he would be “calmer” during a second term. 🙄. All he cares about is protecting himself, financially and otherwise. I don’t get men like him. I don’t think all billionaires are evil. I don’t think Oprah, Taylor Swift, Kim Kardashian, etc. are evil (okay, maybe I don’t think all FEMALE billionaires are evil). But, guys like Bezos and Musk go out of their way to give merit to the idea they’re evil. Musk would rather buy a wannabe dictator an election for 250 million than pay his fair share in taxes. When you have that much money how are you so greedy for more or so frightened to lose even a small amount?

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

Musk would rather buy a wannabe dictator an election for 250 million than pay his fair share in taxes.

And this is going to be the norm.  I mean we had the Adelson's donate millions to buy Trump so he would support Israel at all costs.  I'm sure we will have more billionaires line up to see who is the next politician they can buy.  It's been going on for years in Congress.  At this point Musk just looks like a B movie villain. Dr. Evil was so much more entertaining.

[fastiller]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

 I'm sure we will have more billionaires line up to see who is the next politician they can buy.  It's been going on for years in Congress.  

... and corporations.  Whenever the conversation turns to politicians being bought it reminds me of the Leverage (original series) episode "The Homecoming Job" where the bad buys of the week were Castleman, a military/mercenary company & the Representative they had in their pocket:

Quote

Sophie: My company’s focused on meeting senators, but I’m thinking congressmen.

DuFort: You know the great thing about congressmen? Fifty, a hundred grand well spent will get one elected, but then once they’re in the incumbency rate is over 95 percent so you can get an average 18, 20 years’ use out of one of them. In these uncertain times buying a United States congressman is one of the best investments a corporation can make.

[DuFort’s Office]

Hardison: Oh I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. I’m a professional criminal and I find that disturbing.

 

[Dimity]

Saw this headline today:

Quote

Romanian Court Annuls Presidential Election Amid Accusations of Russian Meddling

Of course it never would happen since the Supreme Court is in the Orange One's back pocket...

[Dimity]

[Dimity]

If that quote is legit what really kills me is the comment about the laziness and greed of middle management.  So, essentially the salaried employees doing the daily drudge work as opposed to the ones at the top.  Oh, Elon, you are a truly special little man, do show us your contempt for the middle class without showing us your contempt for the middle class.

Edited December 6 by Dimity

[bluegirl147]

So Elon thinks we should  prioritize shareholders.  But just the rich shareholders right?  Because any time there is an uprising of say a teacher's union who's pension fund is a shareholder they are told to sit down and shut up. I don't give a fuck how much work a CEO does (which I'm guessing is very little compared to the employees who work an hourly position) they do not deserve the tens of millions of dollars they rake in.  And all the perks that come with it.  What was the company who's new CEO didn't want to move for the job so he wanted a private plane to shuttle him back and forth? These people are lucky instead of us saying tax the rich we aren't saying something different. 

Edited December 6 by bluegirl147

[PRgal]

@Yeah No I, too, always feel like I have to explain myself because my beliefs are, like you, often "different" from everyone else's.  And then I'm shamed.  Shamed to bits.  Especially from my parents who always tell me I DON'T need to explain.  I don't know if it's my neurodivergence issue (I'm using it as a general term since I feel I was misdiagnosed as ADHD and am really on the autism spectrum).  Well, if I don't explain, you're just going to think I'm ignorant.  I quit a diversity and inclusion group a few years ago because they were nothing but mean to me.  I hated that they wanted to put me in a box because of my background.  And it was an incorrect box, too.  I'm more than just that box.  These groups tend to do that.  I recently sent in an inquiry to the graduate admissions department that included the line If you were to ask me to identify myself, I’d just tell you that it’s “complicated” unless you want a full lecture! 

Now I'm worried they think I'm a bit nuts.....or maybe not...they could challenge me to write an entire thesis on that topic.....if I get in.

 

[tearknee]

9 minutes ago, PRgal said:

@Yeah No I, too, always feel like I have to explain myself because my beliefs are, like you, often "different" from everyone else's.  And then I'm shamed.  Shamed to bits.  Especially from my parents who always tell me I DON'T need to explain.  I don't know if it's my neurodivergence issue (I'm using it as a general term since I feel I was misdiagnosed as ADHD and am really on the autism spectrum).  Well, if I don't explain, you're just going to think I'm ignorant.  I quit a diversity and inclusion group a few years ago because they were nothing but mean to me.  I hated that they wanted to put me in a box because of my background.  And it was an incorrect box, too.  I'm more than just that box.  These groups tend to do that.  I recently sent in an inquiry to the graduate admissions department that included the line If you were to ask me to identify myself, I’d just tell you that it’s “complicated” unless you want a full lecture! 

Now I'm worried they think I'm a bit nuts.....or maybe not...they could challenge me to write an entire thesis on that topic.....if I get in.

 

My friend's daughter wears a t-shirt that says: "I am not Latina - I am not Hispanic - I am Puerto Rican"

Edited December 6 by tearknee
checked with her

[Anela]

I’ve been shamed a lot, too. I used to write a lot, I used to over-explain, and now that my responses are shorter, some people think I’m being rude, or that I’m angry with them.  

[PRgal]

In general, women tend to be shamed more than men.  And this needs to change.  

[Dimity]

This election has been a textbook example of women being held to a higher standard than men.  The MAGA attempts to shame Kamala simply for having normal adult relationships prior to her marriage was bad enough but that she was further shamed for not producing biological children was ridiculous.  No man running for office would ever have been subjected to that kind of nonsense.

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, Dimity said:

  No man running for office would ever have been subjected to that kind of nonsense.

They just run ads with people pretending to be their families.  There were at least two Republican men who did that.  

[peacheslatour]

Just now, bluegirl147 said:

They just run ads with people pretending to be their families.  There were at least two Republican men who did that.  

Shown here with his Rent-A-Family. Derrick Anderson is one. Fortunately he lost to Eugene Vindman.

 

[PRgal]

I should add that I'm more likely to be shamed by WOMEN than by men (unless you're my dad who always tells me that I don't need to explain/that I'm wasting my time explaining)!  For them, it's like "if you're not one of us, why are you even here?"

[Dimity]

11 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Shown here with his Rent-A-Family. Derrick Anderson is one

Seriously???  I never heard about this one.  How low can these people go??

[peacheslatour]

Hey Canadian women. Your conservative legislators in action.

[fastiller]

Just now, peacheslatour said:

Hey Canadian women. Your conservative legislators in action.

You remember how they used to say 'when America sneezes the world catches cold'?  This is just one example of the contagion.

[Dimity]

Pollievre definitely wants to be the next Trump and our country may just be stupid enough to let that happen.

[Bastet]

7 hours ago, fastiller said:

Indeed.  And people of color. 

Like how one time the NRA backed a gun control law -- when CA targeted the Black Panthers.

5 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

There is no way I believe everyone working at Fox News believe what they say. 

Court documents in Dominion's successful defamation case against Fox Nes proved that with respect to The Big Lie -- several of them perpetuating it on the air acknowledged (in texts, emails, etc.) in real life it was bullshit. 

[kittykat]

No Canada, don't fall.  I'm a short drive away and you're my backup plan.

Why is everyone following US! South Korea is teetering, the French government is in shambles with freaking LePen ready to stomp.  What is going on?  

6 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

After the 2012 election we heard the Republican party was dead. They did an autopsy.  Conclusion was they needed to be more inclusive.  Friendlier to people of color and LGTBQ. And then Trump came on the scene. And the party moved farther right.  Became even more hostile to people of color and LGTBQ.

And here we are in 2024 and it's the Democratic Party who is being dissected and examined for what went wrong. It is always going to baffle me how a party so identified with hate keeps winning. And I don't want to hear it's the economy.  Because history shows Republicans always drive it in a ditch. I wonder if it's as simple as Republican voters are happy to blindly believe what their candidates say while (some) Democratic voters expect things not easily attained. 

Oh my hell seriously.  And then the fucking pundits turn around and say it's woke politics that are sinking the Democrats. NO!  That's the one thing they need to keep up.  Don't alienate your LGBT+ and black voters by pandering to lost centrists and white voters.  I'm not saying we shouldn't listen to white voters, we need to, particularly lower working class voters and listen to their grievances because they obviously matter but they also need to realize they are one of many voices, not the ONLY voice.

And there are many Democrat voters who can disagree on multiple parts of a candidate's platform but still vote for them because the pros outweigh the cons, but I still can't fathom the millions that stayed home because of bothsidesism or Palestine.  Yes it's horrible what is happening and I want peace there but look at the bigger picture and your own country.  I am not an isolationist or America Firster but my vote prioritized domestic issues over international on this one.  But I feel people just want to flex or virtue signal on sticking to their principles even though Trump's vision for that particular mess will be worse.  It just reeks of cutting off the nose to spite the face.

I'm not saying the Democrats need to obediently fall on line like the Republicans but we need to stop it with the goddamn infighting, it's destroying this party and we're the only line of defense of what's to come so we, the voters and the politicians, need to get our shit together.

[peacheslatour]

27 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Like how one time the NRA backed a gun control law -- when CA targeted the Black Panthers.

Court documents in Dominion's successful defamation case against Fox Nes proved that with respect to The Big Lie -- several of them perpetuating it on the air acknowledged (in texts, emails, etc.) in real life it was bullshit. 

Yep. Here is the picture that made Reagan and the Republicans forget all about the second amendment.

 

[Bastet]

Just now, kittykat said:

I am not an isolationist or America Firster but my vote prioritized domestic issues over international on this one. 

Even if my disgust over the U.S. being firmly up Israel's ass in this genocide (link to recent Amnesty International statement calling it genocide, and the UN has concluded the same -- it's not hyerbolic language) had been my number one issue (my number one issue was not letting a fascist, felonious insurrectionist back in the White House), it wouldn't have caused me to sit this one out -- it's only going to be worse, not any better, under Trump than it has been under Biden/would be under Harris, and realistically a non-vote equals a vote for Trump.

Edited December 6 by Bastet

[Dimity]

50 minutes ago, kittykat said:

It just reeks of cutting off the nose to spite the face.

It's the same here in Canada, the only difference is we didn't just have an election, but I know people who are so pro-Palestine that they can't even begin to understand that a Conservative govt is not going to fall into line with their way of thinking, but sure, teach the Libs a lesson, that'll show 'em 🙄.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Dimity said:

It's the same here in Canada, the only difference is we didn't just have an election, but I know people who are so pro-Palestine that they can't even begin to understand that a Conservative govt is not going to fall into line with their way of thinking, but sure, teach the Libs a lesson, that'll show 'em 🙄.

Anthem for those people

Edited December 6 by Spartan Girl

[Eri]

2 hours ago, kittykat said:

No Canada, don't fall.  I'm a short drive away and you're my backup plan.

Why is everyone following US! South Korea is teetering, the French government is in shambles with freaking LePen ready to stomp.  What is going on?  

I think there has been a clear pattern internationally in the rise of populism 🤔

New Zealand, Argentina, and the Netherlands in 2023; Now Japan, France and the UK all had governments lose or take significant losses this year. Canada is certainly going to follow suit when their federal election is held next year (they have a Trump-like candidate in the making themselves). British Columbia, which is probably the province doing best by any measurement, nearly had the incumbent government lose. Last year, Manitoba changed their government, Alberta's incumbents narrowly held on, this year Saskatchewan nearly did and New Brunswick has changed. Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia are looking to be the only provinces to buck the trend so far.

Now we have South Korean presidents attempting coups out of loneliness (Leaders being held accountable for trying to overthrow the government? Never heard of such a concept 😜) and France has censured and deposed their PM in Parliament apparently.

Overall, anti-incumbent sentiment has been the norm globally over the last year or so.

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, Eri said:

I think there has been a clear pattern internationally in the rise of populism 🤔

 

But it's not real populism though.  It's politicians and moneyed interests using divisive issues to cause the masses to fight amongst themselves.  Then they promise they will make everything better and they end up only making things better for themselves and their donors. 

[Eri]

Hasn't that always been the case over the last several decades?

At least half of the U.S. population supports tax cuts for billionaires and the impending policies that they presume will solve their problems.

Yet Black Friday online sales hit a 5% record high from last year, but the economy is terrible right? Clearly people are gearing up lol It is beyond the pail that people are still expecting pre-pandemic prices to return. It won't.

Edited December 7 by Eri

[Annber03]

17 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

The Republicans made no secret that they were going after Hunter to get to Joe. if you want to blindly pretend that was not what was happening, that's your call, but doesn't change the reality. And, guess what, they never found anything to pin on Joe. Their impeachment quest was as pathetic and inept as they are.

There's also the fact that the investigations into Trump weren't JUST done by Democrats. Notable Republicans like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger were involved as well (and Romney, too, to an extent). Obviously it would've been great if there'd been more Republicans on board than there were, but even so, the fact remains that there were people from both parties that worked together on those investigations and wanted to see him held accountable for his crimes. 

Meanwhile, all the investigations into Biden were led by Republicans, and ONLY Republicans. No Democrats involved. 

So either Repubicans just really suck at knowing how to run an investigation, given they've still yet to find anything to pin on Biden, and failed to do the same for Hillary back when she was working in the Obama administration...or their investigations were nothing more than pathetic partisaon bullshit to distract voters from the fact that they had no actual valid policies to run on and were supporting Trump in all his shitty glory. 

8 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

There is no way I believe everyone working at Fox News believe what they say.  But maybe they pay more.

I'm honestly not sure which would be worse, actually believing the awful stuff they spew on there or not believing it, knowing it's not true, and still saying it out loud anyway, and getting paid to do so. 

Quote

And I don't want to hear it's the economy.  Because history shows Republicans always drive it in a ditch. I wonder if it's as simple as Republican voters are happy to blindly believe what their candidates say while (some) Democratic voters expect things not easily attained. 

Like I said, for people who keep insisting they vote for the GOP because of the economy, it's amazing how that's never the first thing I hear them talk about when they're interviewed for their opinions. It'a always some inevitable rant about how "THOSE people" are getting things they feel they deserve, or how they're tired of all the "woke shit", or griping about pronouns, or whatever. 

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

But I also think Trump tapped into a growing resentment and feeling of being put down and deliberately left out by people in the South and Midwest. The South always had those resentments toward the North or whoever stood for "the North" in their minds. It's just that no politician, even any Republican politician before Trump was able to feed into that resentment to gain their allegiance and their votes by making them think they were on their side and represented their interests "against" the rest of the "elites" in the "Blue" states.

Speaking as a born and bred middle American, who lives smack dab in the Midwest...the people who feel that way frankly need to get over it. Their feelings of being left out may have some validity in and of themselves, and yes, there are some on the coasts who can be very patronizing and condescending to people here in middle America (it will forever drive me nuts when I hear stories from people in the entertainment industry especially who are like, "But how will this play in middle America?" as if we're all super conservative, church-going folks who'll clutch our pearls over the slightest thing). 

But at the same time, people in this part of the country also have some pretty ridiculous views of those who live on the coasts and lump them all into being part of the "eilite" when that is just...not the case, so it goes both ways. People need to realize that all this "coastal elite versus middle America" bullshit is just that, bullshit. Where you live doesn't automatically determine what your political views will be - you'll find stone cold conservatives in L.A. and New York CIty and incredibly progessive people in small towns in Kansas or Alabama. They exist! They're out there! All this pitting certain aspects of the country against each other and talking about the "real America" versus the "coastal elite" and stuff like that iis nothimg more than another way to distract people and keep us fighting each other so that we don't notice who's actually screwing people over. 

(To say nothing of how it's a real laugh to hear people at Fox News railing against the coastal elites...remind me again where their headquarters are? So many of the people who act like they're fighting on behalf of us here in middle America agaisnt those "liberal coastal elites" aren't even from here and have never lived here, so they can sit down and shut up and quit acting like they speak for us all.)

Also, if people are feeling left out or left behind, I mean...when they continually vote against policies that will benefit their towns and the people that live in them, and when they shun any efforts at more diversity and growth in their small towns because of their fear of outsiders and so on, and offter nothing to keep young people sticking around instead of fleeing to the big cities, thus ensuring their towns are made up of little more than older, retired, largely white populations...what exactly do they expect to happen? Of course your town's going to stagnate after that. There's nothing to keep it going. 

4 hours ago, Dimity said:

This election has been a textbook example of women being held to a higher standard than men.  The MAGA attempts to shame Kamala simply for having normal adult relationships prior to her marriage was bad enough but that she was further shamed for not producing biological children was ridiculous.  No man running for office would ever have been subjected to that kind of nonsense.

It is absolutely mind-blowing to me that this is even still a concern for people in 2024. Why the HELL do people care so much about whether or not a woman has biological kids? WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG ISSUE?! What the fuck kind of business is that of anyone else's in the first place? 

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Yep. Here is the picture that made Reagan and the Republicans forget all about the second amendment.

 

Mmhm. When a white guy has a gun, well, he's just a good ol' boy exercising his Second Amendment rights, and just because a white guy goes on a shooting spree doesn't mean we have to lump ALL white gun owners into that category, 'cause that's offensive, and stuff. 

Black people owning a gun? Oh, they're clearly a threat and need to be shot, and if one of htem commits a crime with a gun, it's proof that there's a problem with violence in the black community as a whiole. 

Gotta love those double standards. 

2 hours ago, kittykat said:

No Canada, don't fall.  I'm a short drive away and you're my backup plan.

Why is everyone following US! South Korea is teetering, the French government is in shambles with freaking LePen ready to stomp.  What is going on?  

I dunno, but it's terrifying and people the world over need to start pushing back on this insanity, and pushing back HARD. 

Also, Musk needs to take a long walk off a short pier. 

[Dimity]

Just now, Eri said:

Yet Black Friday online sales hit a 5% record high from last year, but the economy is terrible right?

I know there are people truly suffering right now but I still have to shake my head at the attitude here.  I was in our local grocery store today and a woman about my age was filling her cart with all sorts of goodies and extras - we're not talking Kraft Dinner and peanut butter here - and we ended up talking at the checkout line and she went on and on about the prices and how hard it is.  Oh yes?  Then perhaps some of those pricey convenience meals and the steaks and, oh yes, the Nespresso coffee could have been left on the shelf. 

My point, and I do have one, is that so many of the people going "oh the economy" haven't actually made any real changes to their buying habits.  Not real ones.  But it's sure fun to complain as if you actually are having to choose between groceries and the hydro bill.