Chit-Chat: The Feels

[Enigma X]

I’m not trying to silence anyone, especially those engaging in good-faith analysis on why Trump won. But I want to reiterate that, for me and many loved ones, our concern isn’t why people didn’t vote for Harris. (And I’m not saying those who think it needs analysis should stop—that’s not my place but something I am not going to do.)

What I’m asking is why so many people didn’t care about the safety of Black and Brown communities, LGBTQIA+ people, immigrants, those in war-torn areas, women’s rights, and more. Trump never hid where he stood on these issues, nor did he propose any cohesive plan beyond throwing out the word "tariff" for the supposed one issue his voters claimed mattered.

I’m posing this question not just to white, cishet, Christian men who voted for him but also to members of the groups he targeted who still supported him.

This is a rhetorical question because, frankly, no answer will satisfy me.

[bluegirl147]

My opinion is more and more people vote based on their own self interests.  They know Trump is going to try to deport as many immigrants as he can.  They know there is a real chance he could sign a national abortion ban.  They know he will must likely let Ukraine fall to Russia.   They know he will not help the Palestinians.  They know his promised tax cuts will mostly benefit the top 1%.  They know he will most likely back and repeal of the ACA.  And they don't care.  They think he might do something that might help grocery prices.   And if he doesn't oh well maybe the next president will.

Edited December 1 by bluegirl147

[Dimity]

This makes me think of the MAGA supporters out there:

[Enigma X]

2 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

My opinion is more and more people vote based on their own self interests.  

Which is why I am so angry and hurt. The promised cruelty didn't matter.

[Makai]

22 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

I'd love to see the breakdown too. Whatever the actual stats are, if we have these significant numbers of women and minorities who aren't voting at all then that needs to be addressed too because clearly there's some sort of disconnect where people don't feel they have a party that speaks to and represents them. We've got to get people to remember that their vote makes a difference. The people who chose not to vote probably helped Trump get elected and now they're going to end up dealing with policies that are against their best interests. 

Absolutely. I think this is one of the things that is hurt most by the electoral college. I always vote but I also feel like my vote doesn’t count. People can say every vote counts but everyone knows my state is a forgone conclusion and my vote literally counts less than many other states. And it’s not even close when compared to a state like Wyoming. 

[bluegirl147]

6 minutes ago, Makai said:

Absolutely. I think this is one of the things that is hurt most by the electoral college. I always vote but I also feel like my vote doesn’t count. People can say every vote counts but everyone knows my state is a forgone conclusion and my vote literally counts less than many other states. And it’s not even close when compared to a state like Wyoming. 

I live in a redder than red state.  My vote for president is meaningless.  

Without the electoral college presidential candidates would have to campaign in all 50 states. All voters would be able to feel like their concerns were being heard. As it is now it only looks like voters in six or seven states have a voice.

[Makai]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

My opinion is more and more people vote based on their own self interests.  They know Trump is going to try to deport as many immigrants as he can.  They know there is a real chance he could sign a national abortion ban.  They know he will must likely let Ukraine fall to Russia.   They know he will not help the Palestinians.  They know his promised tax cuts will mostly benefit the top 1%.  They know he will most likely back and repeal of the ACA.  And they don't care.  They think he might do something that might help grocery prices.   And if he doesn't oh well maybe the next president will.

I agree with you that a lot of people know and don’t care or actively want that to happen. But a lot of people actually don’t know any of that. I’m surrounded by them. I don’t think it possible to overstate just how checked out of all things political a large part of the population is. And for many it’s because they are struggling just to survive so they vote of general vibes on who will be better for the economy or don’t vote at all. 

Now, I’m not excusing any of that or letting anyone off the hook but one of my takeaways about this whole election is just how poorly educated Americans are as a whole. The system has failed in teaching the basics of our economic system and critical thinking. And we now have a president that is just going to further deteriorate that educational system because one side has decided to capitalize off of that ignorance for their own gains. 

Edited December 1 by Makai
I hate my phone’s grammar autocorrect.

[Dimity]

16 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Which is why I am so angry and hurt. The promised cruelty didn't matter.

This.  I cannot believe, I just don't want to believe, that so many people either don't care, or worse are cheering it on.  

[Enigma X]

1 minute ago, Dimity said:

This.  I cannot believe, I just don't want to believe, that so many people either don't care, or worse are cheering it on.  

I truly believe it is the latter. It was the promises made of cruelty that many did vote for and why it doesn't matter.

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, Makai said:

I agree with you that a lot of people know and don’t care or actively want that to happen. But a lot of people actually don’t know any of that. I don’t think it possible to overstate just how checked out of all things political a large part of the population is. And for many it’s because they are struggle just to survive so they vote of general vibes on who will be better for the economy. 

Now, I’m not excusing any of that or letting anyone off the hook but one of my takeaways about this whole election is just how poorly education Americans as a whole. The system has failed in teaching the basics of our economic system and critical thinking. And we now have a president that is just going to further deteriorate that educational system because one side has decided to capitalize off of that ignorance for their own gains. 

We have become a poorly educated country because like Trump Republicans love the uneducated.  They know their policies are unpopular so they have made it more difficult for people to understand them.  Why do you they think they have targeted books and libraries?  They don't want people to expand their minds.  They only want people to learn what is controlled by them.  We have seen some states literally rewriting history.  

[Makai]

1 hour ago, bluegirl147 said:

We have become a poorly educated country because like Trump Republicans love the uneducated.  They know their policies are unpopular so they have made it more difficult for people to understand them.  Why do you they think they have targeted books and libraries?  They don't want people to expand their minds.  They only want people to learn what is controlled by them.  We have seen some states literally rewriting history.  

Absolutely. I know people who moved from California to Oklahoma and Texas and the kids immediately moved up a grade level because the standards were so different, going all the way back to the 90’s. 

One of the FAFO stories I recently heard was a Oklahoma mother worried because their kid’s school told her that they weren’t sure if IEPs would exist next year and that the state had to expend a lot of resources buying bibles to meet the new requirement (and, of course, the Trump bible is the only one that meets the requirements). 

I have long said that I struggle with organized religion because so much of it is about furthering the power of the church itself and schools in many states are doing the same thing. 

Edited December 1 by Makai

[Bastet]

59 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Without the electoral college presidential candidates would have to campaign in all 50 states. All voters would be able to feel like their concerns were being heard. As it is now it only looks like voters in six or seven states have a voice.

The Daily Show had a great map of the country, using two colors: one for PA, WI, NV, MI, AZ, GA, and NC and another for the rest of the country.  It was described as "The nation of Pawinevmiazganc and the neighboring country of NoOneGivesAShitistan".

[anony.miss]

4 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

these people aren't as well informed as many of the people in this thread. 

Unless these people were in a coma, they (at the very least) knew Trump  cheered on a violent insurrection four years ago. And they voted for him anyway.   They looked at that recent history and said, "That's my guy."

This is not Trump 2016, this is eight years later - so I take his voters at their word.  Converting their motives into something more palatable, chalking it up to them being  ill-informed avoids the reality of this election, imo. Because even if they (somehow) didn't know Trump was an impeached convicted felon found liable for sexual battery with a history of racist, sexist and ableist language, there's no way they could have avoided seeing the Capitol on Jan 6th. There's no possible way the vast majority of Trump voters in 2024 somehow missed hundreds of hours of news footage devoted to the image of rage-sick humans behaving like plague-ridden rats, frantically crawling all over the Capitol, leaving dead police in their wake. There's no way Trump voters didn't see rioters screaming with hate as they smashed their way into the seat of American democracy, looking to hang the Vice President.

Sanewashing Trump, or his voters,  gets us nowhere, imo. Normalizing a movement driven by violence and hate is dangerous. 

And it might feel momentarily comforting to believe some rural housewife who voted for Trump was misguided and ill-informed and only worried about the price of eggs, but January 6th makes a lie of that. Because that rural housewife (or suburban Latina or Black zoomer or White Gen Xer) had to become comfortable  with unprecedented acts of violence committed against their own government; had to erase the profound moral implications of Trump's participation in that insurrection juuuuust enough to pick the guy who tried to overthrow democracy. They did not find an attempted coup against the United States, driven by the candidate they voted for,  a disqualifying event. They had to pretend there wasn't a traitor in the voting booth with them - the one they were voting for. 

That's why they're being shunned by family and former friends and co-workers - because what Trump did was unforgiveable - and unthinkable, once upon a time. If Obama had led an insurrection against Trump in 2016, the American people would have been united in permanently condemning Obama, and the party he then led, and the Democratic party would have had to spend decades trying to regain the trust of the citizenry.

But for Trump voters?  Wev.

Edited December 1 by anony.miss

[Eri]

Ooh, someone asked about data and I couldn't help but oblige!

The main conclusions from exit polls I've observed is that Trump gained ground with a white majority: gaining a lot of ground with uneducated white men, educated suburban white women, young people and gains with Latino men/ women across the board since the last election. Here are some data comparisons (bear with me while I geek out a bit):

By Gender:

By Age:

 

We have previously noted that the Masculine Podcast Culture and social media influencers are affecting the younger vote, so it may be beneficial for Democrats to enhance their online presence in order to connect with this demographic.

By Race:

I will never stop saying that black women are the backbone of the Democratic Party. Further demographics I've seen is that black and Jewish voters overwhelmingly always vote Democrat nearly every election (because we know what will come from a Trump presidency and understand how white supremacy works).

By Education:

 

Anyone curious about other exit polls can see here.

Historically, the average voter turnout hasn't reached as high levels as we might hope, and unfortunately it tends to be even lower during midterm elections. I attribute the pandemic to the 2020 election's highest voter turnout in over a decade, but yeah a LOT of people decided stayed home this time around.

And to demonstrate this even further, (for those who wanted stats by state) here's a more comprehensive breakdown by state. Interestingly enough, more people in Florida turned out to vote than in the state of New York itself which had fewer ballots counted by approximately 3 million....

Can you tell I enjoy analysis? lol

Edited December 5 by Eri

[bluegirl147]

I'm reading a book who's title is Hitler's People, The Faces of the Third Reich.  I wonder if in 80 years there will be a book titled Trump's People, The Faces of (yet to be determined).

 

[Anela]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

I live in a redder than red state.  My vote for president is meaningless.  

Without the electoral college presidential candidates would have to campaign in all 50 states. All voters would be able to feel like their concerns were being heard. As it is now it only looks like voters in six or seven states have a voice.

Same here in Ohio.  We used to be a swing state, but now we’ve gone more red (the republicans just ignore the law here, because they have a real grip on us).  I was angry when I heard that the democrats had basically given up on us, considering us a lost cause, and leaving us to the GOP. 

[Makai]

13 minutes ago, anony.miss said:

there's no way they could have avoided seeing the Capitol on Jan 6th. There's no possible way the vast majority of Trump voters in 2024 somehow missed hundreds of hours of news footage devoted to the image of rage-sick humans behaving like plague-ridden rats, frantically crawling all over the Capitol, leaving dead police in their wake. There's no way Trump voters didn't see rioters screaming with hate as they smashed their way into the seat of American democracy, looking to hang the Vice President.

I did. I didn’t see any of it at the time. It was only very recently when I decided to tune back in, that I became aware. I knew bits and pieces but was mostly clueless. I checked out after Trump won in 2016. At that point I wasn’t on any social media. I haven’t a cable in years so I only watched streaming shows. I actively avoided most news sources. 

It’s actually wasn’t hard to miss it entirely. Most of the people I know never watch the news and have social media pretty well calibrated to avoid anything they don’t want to see. In real life, conversations about politics were already rare and stopped entirely after Trump won. 

3 minutes ago, Eri said:

Ooh, someone asked about data and I couldn't help but oblige!

Thanks. That was me. At this point I find the data to be frustratingly incomplete but it is probably all the media will report on. 

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, Anela said:

Same here in Ohio.  We used to be a swing state, but now we’ve gone more red (the republicans just ignore the law here, because they have a real grip on us).  I was angry when I heard that the democrats had basically given up on us, considering us a lost cause, and leaving us to the GOP. 

I agree they shouldn't have given up on Ohio or Florida for that matter.  Why concede that many electoral votes?

[Dimity]

58 minutes ago, anony.miss said:

But for Trump voters?  Wev.

 

[Anela]

On 11/29/2024 at 11:10 AM, peacheslatour said:

It's the weirdest thing, they've been trying to say "Dems Triggered!!11!" since 2016 but it hasn't ever really been true. About the most I've seen is medium eyerolling, laughing at them, and sheer embarrassment to be the same species. In fact the only ones I've triggered and losing their shiat at any scale is them.

It's like those vehicle stickers that say "Go cry if my opinions offended you" lol it's like, bruh we're just eyerolling at what a colossal idiot you look like with that. This is the logic from people who elected a monkey-IQ sex abuser reality-TV star to office.

They also say that we are virtue signaling, as they flying massive flags on their trucks, and all over their homes, as well as trying to push the Bible onto the rest of us.  

On 11/30/2024 at 1:27 AM, Annber03 said:

I stayed out of the "screaming at someone with an ugly truck" conversation myself, but I just want to repeat once again that, speaking on a general level,we do not have to be kind or tolerant or accepting towards people who actively are trying to take away our and other people's basic civil and human rights. Or who already have done so (see all the abortion bans). 

If somebody really does not get why we are legitimately angry about that and those who support that, to the point of not bothering to have anything nice to say about or to people who voted for that, then I truly don't know what to tell them. If people aren't going to be kind or accepting or tolerant of us, then they don't get to be surprised or shocked if people respond and treat them the same way in turn. That whole pesky Golden Rule thing, and all that. 

 

On 11/30/2024 at 2:08 AM, Annber03 said:

Continuing on with this topic, I mean, if we're really going to get into discussions about this, let's look at all the politicians whose lives were in danger on January 6th when Trump's supporters were storming the Capitol. His supporters literally had a fucking gallows with a noose set up outside for the vice president, all because Pence was not going to give in to attempts to deny Biden his rightful win. And every other politician who wasn't going to go along with this attempted coup was hiding out to try and escape this terrifying mob that was running rampant through the Capitol and destroying people's offices and smearing feces and other stuff all over the walls and running around with Confederate flags.

Trump's response to all of that? Nothing. No attempts to stop it, no public appearance to calm the crowd and tell them to peacefully disperse, none of that. He just sat in his office and watched it all play out. Didn't matter to him that people's lives were in danger, all he cared about was that people were fighting on behalf of him over something that he knew full well was a lie. 

And yet, all the Democrats who went through that hellish nightmare, and hell, Pence himself, for that matter, haven't gone on to behave on social media the way Trump has. 

Also, one of Trump's own supporters was actually shot and killed at the site of the first assassionation attempt, and Trump..never once said anything about it. Never offered condolences to the family, never spoke reverently of the man who died, never took a moment to express some remorse for the rhetoric that riled up a guy to the point of taking up a gun and shooting at people or asked his own supporters to ease up on their own violent rhetoric and behavior.

And yet we're supposed to somehow feel bad for Trump himself, and be kind and tolerant and accepting towards the people who watched January 6th play out and still voted him back into office...why again? 

Right, Pence refused to get into a car that was going to take him away from the capitol.  He didn’t feel safe, and he knew they would do anything they could to stop the certification of the election.  

On 11/30/2024 at 2:21 AM, MostlyContent said:

On 11/30/2024 at 4:22 AM, Soapy Goddess said:

Maybe not cheering, per se, but a LOT of support. 

And why is it that you all have empathy & compassion for someone who yells an irrational slur at a perfect stranger (admittedly or not), and yet you all have ZERO tolerance for the few Primetimers that are trying to hold a civil conversation with you all? (using the words "you all" as the collective you). 

I talked with you in good faith, right after the election.  
and I accidentally quoted MostlyContent, and can’t delete it.  

On 11/30/2024 at 12:24 PM, bluegirl147 said:

He would have said  they got what they deserved.  I mean he didn't care his own VP Mike Pence was targeted to be hung on January 6th.  

Yep. He posted on twitter, that pence wasn’t going to do the right things when that was exactly what pence was doing. 

On 11/30/2024 at 2:55 PM, Makai said:

Trump is now threatening BRICS countries (which includes Russia, China and India) with an 100% tariff which has made me decide to shift my spending priorities a little in preparation. I’m curious what everyone is doing in advance of the inauguration to prepare for what is likely to come. Any suggestions? 

I can’t afford to buy anything in advance, and I’m nervous over how much worse the cost of things might be.  

On 11/30/2024 at 3:09 PM, Eri said:

The fact that he's still complaining this much even after winning the election, tells me that he's scared so I take it as a good sign.

I'm curious, does anyone have any right leaning friends or family who are genuinely happy about the election? I don't know any personally but I get the feeling that folks were already miserable to begin with because I don't see any joy anywhere after all this.

I have an uncle who shocked me with his MAGA support in 2016, and I don’t talk to him, but I haven’t argued with him at funerals, either.  He openly gloats.  He texted my dad with a really happy/gloating gif, the day after his debate with Biden.  Dad didn’t get it, but I did, and told him. I know a few MAGA online, who haven’t stopped gloating. They have no complaints. 

18 hours ago, FilmTVGeek80 said:

There's no need to wag your finger or act like people are insane for having very valid questions about that first incident. I care about facts and none of the questions I asked in my initial post about this counter any of the facts known. There's been so little information put out by the media or 45's side so many open-ended questions exist. Biden had a bad debate, and the media is all over it to the point that they're making up diagnoses based on very little evidence. Yet, when a presidential candidate is shot at, there's nowhere near the journalistic hunger or curiosity.  When the first reports came out, I ultimately thought it was fake because of how he jumped up. When I heard someone was killed, I knew that a shooting had taken place, but the situation was still fishy. Why was the Secret Service so lax and didn't check that roof or have eyes on it? I heard reports that some people reported that they saw someone up there, but no one did anything about it. 

 

I heard that explanation, but I still think he's too big of a coward to get up like that. Plus, I don't buy the Secret Service letting him get up like that since, at that point, there was no way to know if the danger was entirely over. They didn't know if the guy had an accomplice or something. 

Also, the immediate declaration by the media, and his supporters, that this won him the election. Nothing about policies, nothing that would  be expected from any other candidate.  Someone who voted for him, tried to assassinate him. 

12 hours ago, Soapy Goddess said:

They weren't supporters. A supporter doesn't try to kill the person they supposedly support. Makes zero sense.

Both of them were Republican.  The last one was also legally open-carrying, but apparently that isn’t allowed around trump.  In Florida.  In public.  Anyway, that guy voted for him, and liked Haley, this year. 

Last night, when looking for something, I was reminded by a BBC article that trump tried to stall the election in 2020. He tried to put it off, claiming he wanted voters to vote safely, and railing against mail-ballots.  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53597975

[Anela]

45 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I agree they shouldn't have given up on Ohio or Florida for that matter.  Why concede that many electoral votes?

It’s just like the democrats here don’t count.  Because we’re outnumbered, so screw us.  In the meantime, the people here mobilized to get abortion and marijuana legalized, and still tried to get Kamala elected, too. 

If LaRose hadn’t made a deliberate mess of the wording on the redistricting issue, this year, we could have had fair voting districts again. But, no.  

People forget that there are a lot of blue voters in red states, who can’t afford to move, and also shouldn’t have to, in order to keep their basic human rights.  

Edited December 1 by Anela

[Annber03]

10 hours ago, tearknee said:

The white working class (plus a significant minority of the non-white one) has now given Trump a second term. As in 2016 with Brexit and then HRC going into a tailspin, it turns out that those not from the college-educated intellectual elite *know* when they are looked down upon and derided and called "white trash" and "Karens".

*mirthless laughter*

Well, this white working class person, born and raised in middle America, who doesn't have a college education, doesn't feel that way. I know who's looking down upon and bamboozling people, and it sure as hell ain't the college-educated intellectual elite. It's people like Trump who say all the things their base wants to hear and none of what they actually need to hear. 

People have been made to believe that being smart and educated and knowing what you're talking about is somehow a BAD thing, and intelligence and experience and knowledge are no longer values worth honoring and respecting and pursuing. It's depressing. 

Edited December 1 by Annber03

[Avaleigh]

34 minutes ago, anony.miss said:

They did not find an attempted coup against the United States, driven by the candidate they voted for,  a disqualifying event. They had to pretend there wasn't a traitor in the voting booth with them - the one they were voting for. 

The short answer to this is that there are a lot of people in this country who weren't paying as much attention as you think they were. They aren't giving deep thoughts about what happened on January 6th. Not even surface level thoughts to be honest. It didn't factor in at all for a lot of people as far as casting their vote. They don't think of it as a disqualifying event because it didn't keep him from being allowed to run when of course it should have--that's if they were even thinking about it at all which many of them weren't. 

More to the point, they don't see it as the huge deal it in fact was because Trump didn't have to suffer real consequences for what he did and what he's done over the years. He shouldn't have been allowed to run again, that worm McConnell could have and should have put the final nail in his political coffin to keep him from running, but he didn't and here we are.

Trump should be in prison, but he's basically been allowed to get away with everything. Convicted felon doesn't mean anything to some of these people and even more surprising is some of them don't even realize that he is a convicted felon. Nor does impeachment mean anything to some of these people when they're voting. 

Keep in mind these are some of the same people who have the impression that Trump is a successful businessman. They don't know about the multiple bankruptcies, the way he cheats people out of money for services rendered, the way he lies to accomplish whatever it is he sets out to do. They just vaguely know that he's rich, he has a lot of followers, and he was on a successful show at one point.

Regarding Trump regularly breaking the law, these aren't big issues to certain people because he didn't have to suffer any of the consequences he should have. If he'd gone to prison, his die hard supporters might not care, but at least the Republicans would have been forced to move on to another candidate.

The fact that he hasn't had to pay for any of the shit he's done is hugely depressing and demoralizing. It's also a big part of the reason he's making so many insane choices for his cabinet. He feels he's untouchable and can get away with anything. 

[bluegirl147]

3 minutes ago, Anela said:

It’s just like the democrats here don’t count.  Because we’re outnumbered, so screw us.  In the meantime, the people here mobilized to get abortion and marijuana legalized, and still tried to get Kamala elected, too. 
If LaRose hadn’t made a deliberate mess of the wording on the redistricting issue, this year, we could have had fair voting districts again. But, no.  

My state had a ballot initiative regarding assisted suicide or as I like to call it dying with dignity.  The wording was intentionally confusing.  My therapist misunderstood it the first time she read it .  My daughter in law called me on election day so I could explain it to her.  My best friend who early voted with me had me clarify the wording.   You had to vote no to have die with dignity become law.  It failed.  

Conservatives use every trick in the book to get their way.

@Anela I know Ohio is still trying to prevent weed from being legal.  They only believe in democracy when they win.

[Bastet]

Just now, Annber03 said:

People have been made to believe that being smart and educated and knowing what you're talking about is somehow a BAD thing, and inelligence and experience and knowledge are no longer values worth honoring and respecting and pursuing. It's depressing.

This kicked into high gear during Bush II's reign.  I saved a quote from Sam Harris, writing for Newsweek, back then:

Quote

Ask yourself: How has elitism become a bad word in American politics? There is simply no other walk of life in which extraordinary talent and rigorous training are denigrated. We want elite pilots to fly our planes, elite troops to undertake our most critical missions, elite athletes to represent us in competition, and elite scientists to devote the most productive years of their lives to curing our diseases. And yet, when it comes time to vest people with even greater responsibilities, we consider it a virtue to shun any and all standards of excellence. When it comes to choosing the people whose thoughts and actions will decide the fates of millions, then we suddenly want someone just like us, someone fit to have a beer with, someone down-to-earth -- in fact, almost anyone, provided that he or she doesn’t seem too intelligent or well-educated.

 

[Anela]

4 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

My state had a ballot initiative regarding assisted suicide or as I like to call it dying with dignity.  The wording was intentionally confusing.  My therapist misunderstood it the first time she read it .  My daughter in law called me on election day so I could explain it to her.  My best friend who early voted with me had me clarify the wording.   You had to vote no to have die with dignity become law.  It failed.  

Conservatives use every trick in the book to get their way.

@Anela I know Ohio is still trying to prevent weed from being legal.  They only believe in democracy when they win.

They’re still trying to ban abortion again, too.  Because they never really intended to give it back to the states.  

[Annber03]

15 minutes ago, Anela said:

People forget that there are a lot of blue voters in red states, who can’t afford to move, and also shouldn’t have to, in order to keep their basic human rights.  

THIS. The GOP assumes everyone in red states agrees with them, and the Democrats think nobody who ilves in red states will support any of their policies. Neither belief is even remotely true. My state has gone for Trump all three times and yet I know so many people who live here who can't stand him and did not vote for him. Our voices matter, too, and I definitely agree that the Demorcats need to do a hell of a lot more to mobilize us here in these middle American red states, so that we can try and push back against all the GOP control. I want to go back to the days when my state did things like be one of the earliest to legalize same-sex marriage, or went for Obama both times. 

[bluegirl147]

For people who didn't know Trump was that bad I'm not going to to give them a pass.  This is how we end up with truly horrendous representatives.  People vote because they recognize someone's name from a political ad or they have an R or D beside their name without realizing they don't believe in the policies you thought they would.  My therapist said she read a quote that said who we vote for presidential is the president  we deserve.  Unfortunately we all have to suffer.

Edited December 1 by bluegirl147

[Anela]

My point the other day, was the transphobic people I know, who fall for the bathroom bait, are the same people who were saying “#metoo has gone too far!” It isn’t really about protecting women.  

Edited December 1 by Anela

[fairffaxx]

11 minutes ago, Bastet said:

When it comes to choosing the people whose thoughts and actions will decide the fates of millions, then we suddenly want someone just like us, someone fit to have a beer with, someone down-to-earth -- in fact, almost anyone, provided that he or she doesn’t seem too intelligent or well-educated.

People who liked Ike more than Adlai Stevenson urged voters to choose the war hero over "the egghead" & they did, so here we are.

[bluegirl147]

It could be said George W Bush won because voters could see themselves having a beer with him

The Republicans figured out they could appeal to everyday Americans without ever actually doing anything for everyday Americans.

[Eri]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

People forget that there are a lot of blue voters in red states, who can’t afford to move, and also shouldn’t have to, in order to keep their basic human rights.  

50 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

THIS. The GOP assumes everyone in red states agrees with them, and the Democrats think nobody who ilves in red states will support any of their policies. Neither belief is even remotely true. My state has gone for Trump all three times and yet I know so many people who live here who can't stand him and did not vote for him. Our voices matter, too, and I definitely agree that the Demorcats need to do a hell of a lot more to mobilize us here in these middle American red states, so that we can try and push back against all the GOP control. I want to go back to the days when my state did things like be one of the earliest to legalize same-sex marriage, or went for Obama both times. 

Absolutely to both of your posts! I'm a Florida-born native and so many people like me (friends and family included) grow frustrated every election season. The state voted for Obama TWICE but after 2018, the DNC just....gave up which I disagree with. We came extremeeeeeely close to voting in a Democratic governor (Would've been the first black governor of the state but DeSantis won by 0.38% of the vote that year). Then the GOP capitalized on more state legislature races to keep a stronghold of their majority. The Dems struggled to present strong enough candidates, often relying on familiar/recycled politicians that many had grown tired of. I still feel quite frustrated that they conceded back then and barely tried this election either.

I'm not surprised that DeSantis won by a higher majority in the 2022 midterms, as the demographics have shifted significantly, particularly due to Republican transplants relocating to the state during the pandemic and gaining more ground with Latino voters. As I've mentioned before, it's also identity politics (If there's an R next to someone's name on the ballot, they'll vote for them whether they like/know the candidate or not). DeSantis isn't well liked by locals but he's a Republican so he's treated with a "Well he'll just have to do" attitude🙄

(And look no further than Matt Gaetz whom Republicans were ready to turn their back on in recent weeks, needs no further explanation)

Perfect example: Amendment 4 only received 57% of the vote - really close. Broken down further, only 6 (out of 67) counties in the state voted in favor of the amendment with the 60%+ threshold and this includes the county TRUMP LIVES IN. 

I just know Trump voted for Amendment 4, everyone kept saying he voted against it but I think he voted yes and didn't tell anybody lol Because 1) he doesn't care about abortion and 2) he's a snake-in-the-grass like that.

Edited December 1 by Eri

[bluegirl147]

It's also Republican snowbirds who winter in Florida.  My boss and his wife changed their driver licenses to Florida eight years ago.  I took that to mean they also changed their voter registration.  When they are in Florida they get their local mail at my office.  They get lots of mail from Florida Republican politicians fundraising.

[Avaleigh]

4 hours ago, Makai said:

I don’t think it possible to overstate just how checked out of all things political a large part of the population is.

If nothing else proves this, the fact that people were searching, on election day, if Biden was still in the race, when he'd dropped out in July--if that doesn't emphasize how checked out people are, I don't know what does.

3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

We have become a poorly educated country because like Trump Republicans love the uneducated.  They know their policies are unpopular so they have made it more difficult for people to understand them.  Why do you they think they have targeted books and libraries? 

Agreed that most Republicans seem to love the uneducated. The rich Republicans will send their kids to college, but there seems to be a disdain for people who work in higher education and people who have advanced degrees outside of, of course, right wing politicians. Right wing politicians get a pass for some reason even though they go to some of the most elite universities in the country. People act like colleges are indoctrination centers for left wing propaganda when in fact people are simply learning what they need to learn to be competitive in the job market when the time comes. That in addition to skills for critical thinking, research, socializing, etc. 

It's also a cult tactic to restrict reading material. There are certain religious groups that don't want people to research the religion online because they know there's a good chance people will find something that contradicts their teachings or puts them in a bad light.

[anony.miss]

2 hours ago, Makai said:

 I didn’t see any of it at the time.. 

You're a rare individual, because data shows the vast majority of Americans were aware of Jan 6th - Pew:

"In a survey conducted from Jan. 8 to 12, 2021, around seven-in-ten U.S. adults (69%) said they had heard a lot about the riot, and another 28% said they had heard a little."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/01/04/a-look-back-at-americans-reactions-to-the-jan-6-riot-at-the-u-s-capitol/

If you search online, you'll find other similar info (there are party lines re: having heard more/less, but both parties show a very tiny slice of people who had heard nothing). It's not a lack of knowledge about Jan 6th that drove Trumpers to vote for him again - most of them knew it had happened, and had no moral issue with voting for the man who spearheaded an attempt to overthrow an election. (If anything, more than a few approved of Trump's chicanery re:  "stop the steal" and currently support him pardoning the insurrectionists.)

 

Edited December 1 by anony.miss

[tearknee]

4 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

My opinion is more and more people vote based on their own self interests.  They know Trump is going to try to deport as many immigrants as he can.  They know there is a real chance he could sign a national abortion ban.  They know he will must likely let Ukraine fall to Russia.   They know he will not help the Palestinians.  They know his promised tax cuts will mostly benefit the top 1%.  They know he will most likely back and repeal of the ACA.  And they don't care.  They think he might do something that might help grocery prices.   And if he doesn't oh well maybe the next president will.

Exactly. Many - most - people have superficially progressive views but get cold feet in the voting booth when they feel their purses or wallets getting lighter and they also they see foolish (at this point in time given an election year) talk by activists of "reparations" and all the average voters sees in that is buckets of cash that they won't see hide not hair of.

[Makai]

1 hour ago, anony.miss said:

You're a rare individual, because data shows the vast majority of Americans were aware of Jan 6th - Pew:

"In a survey conducted from Jan. 8 to 12, 2021, around seven-in-ten U.S. adults (69%) said they had heard a lot about the riot, and another 28% said they had heard a little."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/01/04/a-look-back-at-americans-reactions-to-the-jan-6-riot-at-the-u-s-capitol/

No, I’m not. I would put myself in the group that heard little. I was aware it happened but I didn’t not watch the footage or tune into the news of it at all. Over a quarter of the population isn’t rare. This election was decided by slightly less than a third of the adult population. 

Besides polling is becoming increasingly inaccurate. You can’t poll people who don’t want to be polled and I am largely talking about that group who are completely checked out of all things political. 

1 hour ago, anony.miss said:

It's not a lack of knowledge about Jan 6th that drove Trumpers to vote for him again - most of them knew it had happened, and had no moral issue with voting for the man who spearheaded an attempt to overthrow an election.

I agree but I am not talking about Trumpers. There are a lot of people in the middle who feel that both parties are corrupt and that our political system is broken. I’m not defending or excusing people who led with apathy/self-interest this election but I do understand the mindset behind it. 

They’re not wrong that our system is fundamentally broken in ways that no president is going to fix. I voted for Harris because I believed her policies would move us in the right direction and because Trump would only further damage the system, but I also believed that there was very little that she would be able to actually accomplish. Right now getting anything done requires a super majority in Congress and/or manipulating the courts. Trump has done the latter which is terrifying to me.

I’m honestly not trying to make excuses for anyone but I can never agree that saying people voted for him because of the economy is a lie because I have to face people who voted for the reason every day. I’m not saying that makes them better than Trumpers. In fact, I think it makes them worse in many ways. But I do think it makes them reachable. 

I’m not asking anyone to try to reach them or forgive them or even to understand them. Fuck that. Let them live with the consequences of their vote. I’m just pissed the rest of us after to suffer through it at the same time. 

[bluegirl147]

Biden just pardoned his son Hunter.   Cue the pearl clutching of the Republican party.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Biden just pardoned his son Hunter.   Cue the pearl clutching of the Republican party.

I figured he would do this when Trump won. Honestly thought he would wait until January to do this as a parting gift.

[PRgal]

This guy was on a recent episode of a podcast I follow called On Boys.  He has an interesting perspective and is worth a listen (he and I are more or less on the same page - worried that boys/men are not being listened to/gaslighting of males...I've written about the boy issue myself).  

[bluegirl147]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I figured he would do this when Trump won. Honestly thought he would wait until January to do this as a parting gift.

He had to do it.  Not just because he is a loving dad but who knows what Trump would have done to Hunter.  Trump is petty and vindictive.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, tearknee said:

Exactly. Many - most - people have superficially progressive views but get cold feet in the voting booth when they feel their purses or wallets getting lighter and they also they see foolish (at this point in time given an election year) talk by activists of "reparations" and all the average voters sees in that is buckets of cash that they won't see hide not hair of.

And this guy who has run three different casinos into the ground in Atlantic City; bankrupted a professional football league, an airline, and a number of other businesses, they think he's going to fill their wallet?

[Enigma X]

11 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Biden just pardoned his son Hunter.   Cue the pearl clutching of the Republican party.

Unless he physically harmed someone, such as the incoming president has, I would've pardoned my son too.

[Ohiopirate02]

4 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Unless he physically harmed someone, such as the incoming president has, I would've pardoned my son too.

I'm not going to say Hunter is an upstanding citizen, but the prosecution of him was obviously motivated by partisan politics. And also in relatiation to the various charges brought on the Trump family as a whole for their multiple frauds. 

[Bookish Jen]

24 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Biden just pardoned his son Hunter.   Cue the pearl clutching of the Republican party.

Good. Now let all the Trumpers' heads explode.

[Enigma X]

Just now, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm not going to say Hunter is an upstanding citizen, but the prosecution of him was obviously motivated by partisan politics. And also in relatiation to the various charges brought on the Trump family as a whole for their multiple frauds. 

I think Hunter is a man with issues, and the incoming administration is filled with people are beyond just having issues. I also think there are many other pardons that need to be dealt with before Biden leaves office, but I am not upset or surprised by this one.

[PRgal]

There was a Cybertruck charging in my building's charging station this afternoon.  I've decided to call it The Ugly Elon. 

[tearknee]

15 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

And this guy who has run three different casinos into the ground in Atlantic City; bankrupted a professional football league, an airline, and a number of other businesses, they think he's going to fill their wallet?

Most people don't hate the rich, they want to *become* the rich. That is the fatal flaw in recent messaging and attempted outreach by the non-right (The USA doesn't really have a Left (with effective power)).

[PRgal]

2 minutes ago, tearknee said:

Most people don't hate the rich, they want to *become* the rich. That is the fatal flaw in recent messaging and attempted outreach by the non-right (The USA doesn't really have a Left (with effective power)).

A lot of people also think having a lot of cash saved up is better than investing some of it.  They don't want to take the risk to become wealthier.  Inflation happens and that cash you're sitting won't be worth as much as if you had invested it in something.  My son's university fund is basically made up of ETFs and they're doing pretty well.  It's not going to pay for the entire four years, but it's a nice cushion.

[tearknee]

24 minutes ago, PRgal said:

This guy was on a recent episode of a podcast I follow called On Boys.  He has an interesting perspective and is worth a listen (he and I are more or less on the same page - worried that boys/men are not being listened to/gaslighting of males...I've written about the boy issue myself).  

Yes. Doesn't help that you have mothers (and sisters) who think dressing their infant boys up in the old baby dresses is harmless or "will make certain he learns equality". Those mothers and daughters needn't bother doing any campaigning or advocacy on consent since what they did to their son/brother undercuts and completely discredits it. Even if they do not take pictures, it is still gleeful sadism and child abuse rather than 'love'.

A person's first bully is usually their family.