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darkestboy

Renee Montoya: Loyal. Passionate. Stubborn

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No, I think it's definitely confirmed. I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the series either Renee/Barbara resume their relationship or we get flashbacks when they were together.

 

I did like Renee in the episode, but Harvey mentioned something about her popping pills and I did think she was a little too hasty in assuming the worst of Gordon as well.

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The way Montoya comes at Gordon, I really want him to fight back with something he either worked out on his own or with something he figured out from what Barbara might say.

 

She has been shown, in other media, to be one of THE best murder police Gotham has.  I am currently disappointed in how arrogant and near stalkery Renee is being made to seem. On Homicide: Life On The Street, you had the brilliant Frank Pembleton, but also the equally awesome Kay Howard ( who happened to have a better close rate than the more ballyhooed male characters.) Yet, while there was professional tension between Frank and Kay, there was a respect.  Yes, Jim's new and needs to earn respect from fellow cops. Montoya and Allen aren't even hearing Gordon out and relying on questionable sources about how clean the new straight-shooter is.

 

Unless Montoya is also relatively new, there doesn't seem to be a good enough reason for her single-minded obsession with pinning dirty deeds on Gordon. The show only shows Reneee with Crispus and Barbara, unless she and Crispus are antagonizing Jim/Jim and Harvey.

 

For the record, I could care about her sexuality. There's a show on CBS this season for stalkers, so the writers here need to back off that angle quick or whatever.

 

I would like better for the character.

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Same here. I do like Renee a lot but if she's constantly going after Gordon, it's going to wear very thin, very fast.

 

Hopefully with Oswald resurfacing, Renee will back off Gordon and maybe come to realise that he's not actually the bad guy here.

 

I knew in the opening episode from Bullock's snide comments that she had a drug problem and the interactions with Barbara this week pretty much confirmed it as well. If the comics can portray her as an alcoholic, it's not much of a stretch for the show to portray her as a drug addict.

 

I do want to see more of her and Barbara's past and eventually see her with a girlfriend too.

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With Montoya, I am not sure how much of it is the writing versus the acting versus our expectations as an audience.

 

On paper, I think there is grounds for her to be extremely suspicious of Jim. Harvey and Jim are publicly saying that Mario Pepper killed the Waynes and they killed Pepper. They are (presumably) being lionized for closing the case so quickly.

 

Only, Montoya and Allen get evidence that seems credible on its face that Fish planted the pearl necklace that is really the only evidence that Mario Pepper killed the Waynes, and that Gordon and Bullock knew about it. They may have knowledge of Harvey's relationship with Fish. Certainly within the first few episodes, Harvey made it seem like basically anybody needing a lead on a case would go to Fish for answers, and there was the implication he did it plenty of times.

 

Shortly after they get evidence from Oswald about Fish planting evidence on Pepper, Oswald disappears. And Fish basically says Gordon did it. 

 

Now Montoya and Allen shouldn't necessarily take all this hook, line and sinker. But it seems enough to justify an investigation. And when that investigation turns up someone who says he saw Gordon shoot Penguin, it seems like it's good enough. 

 

The potential justification got unravelled somewhat by Montoya having had a yearlong relationship with Barbara and clearly wanting Barbara back. Plus, let's face it, the actress isn't the strongest. 

 

Maybe if her partner got more prominence it would seem like she was an envious woman trying to win her girl back. 

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Now Montoya and Allen shouldn't necessarily take all this hook, line and sinker. But it seems enough to justify an investigation. And when that investigation turns up someone who says he saw Gordon shoot Penguin, it seems like it's good enough. 

 

They could have made Montoya a more rootable character if at first she was suspicious, but then she later tries to uncover the truth about whether Gordon really did kill Oswald, maybe partly for Barbara's sake.  Her own department (maybe someone other than Allen, if they want to salvage him) could work against her, and she is forced to try to arrest Gordon against her own better judgement.  By making her so single-minded and prejudiced against Gordon, and, as you said, taking hook, line and sinker from Fish, they took away her intelligence.

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They could have made Montoya a more rootable character if at first she was suspicious, but then she later tries to uncover the truth about whether Gordon really did kill Oswald, maybe partly for Barbara's sake.  Her own department (maybe someone other than Allen, if they want to salvage him) could work against her, and she is forced to try to arrest Gordon against her own better judgement.  By making her so single-minded and prejudiced against Gordon, and, as you said, taking hook, line and sinker from Fish, they took away her intelligence.

 

I would've preferred that.

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With Montoya, I am not sure how much of it is the writing versus the acting versus our expectations as an audience.

 

 

I think you nailed it. The writing isn't great, but then the writing as whole is still finding its foot. An obssessed 'he stole the love of my life' Montoya could work in the hands of a very talented actress, someone able to soften the character and make her looks like this close to a stalker. That's not the case, as far as I'm concerned. As far as expectations as an audience goes, I honestly want to see something else other than that one tone character the actress and the writers are giving us, with some real development, both in the personal and professional front.

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I want to hope that with the awesome save (gotta love the big ol', 70s like cars!) and with Alfred and Bruce in on what's up with them, that Renee can finally be as smart as we here seemed to be hoping. Now that she and Jim seem to be trying to start being actual co-workers, maybe we'll get to see doggedly straight arrow Montoya.

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Kind of a day late and a dollar short, IMO.  We got an apology (although if she's playing some deeper game that could be fake), but you have to ask where she was immediately after the arrest?  Even if she didn't give a crap about Gordon, she made such a noise about being worried about Barbara--who seemingly was home along to get held hostage for hours, while Jim dug his way out of trouble at work.  I mean think of it this way.  Even if Gordon WAS guilty, then Barbara's life was STILL likely in danger, because using a girlfriend is always the mob's way to control people from squealing.  But MCU left nobody guarding her when they hauled in Gordon?  That's suspicious.

 

Then she lets Gordon cowboy off by himself?  She's THAT easy to persuade at that point?  Come on.

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As much as I want to like Crispus, he seemed to be the one with the ' uh, sure, we'll take on this can of worms if you die' reaction in this episode. I think Montoya has been shown to be head-strong and stubborn, like Gordon, which would explain why Barbara was drawn to both of them. Crispus seemed reserved and circumspect, which would be why he's a good partner for Renee.*  I think we are supposed to be trying to figure out if Montoya, Allen, both, or neither  are lying to Gordon. I understand, tension-building, but in a city of ineffectual or outright corrupt cops, it's a bit cynical and tiresome. Either they are going to be helpful, just secretly- a good cover has thoroughly been built by Montoya- or they are going to be reluctant allies from time to time.

 

I can see Montoya protesting Jim's plan but relenting, as it's probably something she'd do herself, especially as the show has painted her. As for Barbara's safety, I think she just took him at his word, which is OOC. Jim wasn't going to mention any doubts to Montoya because he doesn't trust her that fully. He was good with the apology and the let's be allies stuff because it'll make work less harrowing in some ways. Again, I think it's an important piece of vagueness that  Barbara supposedly went to Falcone directly to plead for Jim.  

 

* I'd like a scene where Harvey and Crispus commiserate over their stubborn partners. Maybe like Vir and Lenier from Babylon 5?

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Yeah, straight arrow; as in like Jim, looking to do the right, moral thing despite it being harder to do.

Was going for a sexuality joke. Doesn't always translate well to print. Sorry.

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This episode actually elevated Renee over Barbara, to me.   

 

If Renee had done the drugs and boozing, got clean, is keeping clean, and that has helped fuel her...zeal on the professional side of her life? Then two thumbs up for her. That she backslid, is feeling regret over potentially coming between Jim and Barbara/ realizing that she was just a tantrum piece because Barbara huffed off when Jim couldn't devote time to a phone call because murders, and recognized that she fell off the wagon/ was close to it if she stayed with Barbara and tried to be cool about the leaving showed me that, for whatever reason, Montoya wants to be Good-- a good cop and a good person. Whereas Barbara spiraled into hateful anger and stoopidville.

 

I wish there could be a rehab of Montoya and Barbara at the same time, but I am glad there seems to be an attempt to rehab Renee.

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Poor Renee.  She's a great, honest cop and a strong woman, but thanks to this show the general public just knows her as the jealous (former junkie) lesbian ex.

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Also she's been missing for six episodes now. While I don't feel the show needs to see Renee and Crispus every week, it would be nice to see both of them again before the finale though.

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Hopefully, they are honorable and step up to protect Bruce now that Alfred has been sidelined.

 

If Renee isn't the most kid-friendly person, it could be fun seeing her and Crispus dealing with not-the-usual-tween Bruce. I do not expect Renee to go Mama Bear, but Kick-ass Cop if the need arises.( Not that she should never, but Renee hasn't been shown, much less shown enough as leaning one way or the other on the subject to date. This should not be the case that brings it out, imo.)

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They could have made Montoya a more rootable character if at first she was suspicious, but then she later tries to uncover the truth about whether Gordon really did kill Oswald, maybe partly for Barbara's sake. Her own department (maybe someone other than Allen, if they want to salvage him) could work against her, and she is forced to try to arrest Gordon against her own better judgement. By making her so single-minded and prejudiced against Gordon, and, as you said, taking hook, line and sinker from Fish, they took away her intelligence.

That was the only part of the first half of the season I didn't like- the cut and dry, "Renee Montoya and Crispus Allen are the bad guys" angle. This show is so much more...so those characters deserved (and still deserve) more.

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Thanks, darkestboy! Now I really am angry that Montoya and Allen have been ignored!  I really hope to see them more in the last few episodes, where they'd make sense even.

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Me too. I don't realistically expect either character in every episode (hell, I'm starting to think there's the odd episode or two even Oswald could sit out) but the gaps between appearances are a little too wide for my liking and I'm hoping both Montoya and Allen materalise in the finale at the very least.

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