E11.E21: Hospice

[peeayebee]

When John started with the weird supporters of Trump, I was really expecting him to bring up the specimen cups with JD Vance's picture on them that supporters are carrying. OMFG. Printed on each cup -- or as someone called it, Jizz Dispenser (J.D.) -- is "Full Family Kit." I think I also saw some that said, "Pro-Family." WHAT ARE THEY DOING?!? This is right up there with Real Men Wear Diapers for Trump. If they think this is owning the libs, they are only making us laugh at them.

As for the main story, I honestly had no idea there was so much fraud in hospice. I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it takes a special kind of evil for someone to use hospice to illegally enrich themselves. 

I think many of us, if not all, have experience with hospice. For me, it was first my husband. He had cancer, and once he went into hospice care he thankfully didn't linger. I was happy with the care we received. Then a couple of years later, it was my father. Again, he didn't linger. The only complaint I have is that the nurse was running late, so I was sitting with my dad when he passed. I'm actually glad the nurse hadn't come so that I could be the one with him.

My SIL's sister has MS. She was living by herself but getting to the point where she really couldn't take care of herself. She had a bad infection, and for some reason was put in hospice care. She was furious. My SIL told me that this apparently was the only way she could get the care she needed. I still don't get it. Now I wonder if that was a scam.

[arachne]

Wow, I had no idea hospice care was so corrupt. Thankfully, my own experience was limited. When my husband's colon cancer proved inoperable (he was a bad surgery risk) we got services from a group called "Hearts for Hospice" which gave him care at our house. I highly recommend it.

Eventually, my spouse did check into a hospice, where he died less than two days later.

[Shrek]

Yet another reason why assisted ☠️should be legal everywhere. 

[peeayebee]

I wish I could remember the name of the hospice care we used. My husband's was in Texas, my father's in California. I doubt I still have any paperwork.

[shapeshifter]

I will definitely be back to comment on this topic after I see the episode. 
I hope he did it justice. 

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, peeayebee said:

If they think this is owning the libs, they are only making us laugh at them.

I've been talking strategy a lot from the opening segments the last few weeks. This is another. 'Owning the libs' just doesn't work anymore. Project 2025 is an actual document people can point to things in where you can say 'this just isn't good policy'. 

I don't know if Walz came up with it as a tactic or it just came out spontaneously, but 'weird' has been the best strategy since 'are you better off than you were 4 years ago?' in 1984. It's total disarray. I'm stunned at how hard it's landed, and to boot, how on message Democrats have been downballot, as John pointed out here. 

[iMonrey]

The guy running for Congress (or Senate?) who said Trump could drop his pants and take a dump on stage and he still wouldn't vote for Democrats "ever again" got me thinking, what exactly is this guy so mad at Democrats about? There are probably a sizable number of people who vote for Trump not because they like him or even like Republican policies but want to "punish" Democrats for some slight, whether real or perceived. And I think that's something worth exploring.

Nothing can shock me about the medical stuff. I don't know how anyone can thing for-profit healthcare is a good idea for anyone other than the profiteers.

[DoctorAtomic]

I think it's part of this 'owning the libs' that was brought up, but if you're just kind of rich like a former NBA player may be, you might want to vote for Trump because he'll lower taxes again. He was *mad* though. Way beyond reasonable for just voting on policy considerations. 

That's why I think their entire strategy is falling apart.

 

 

[Anela]

I don’t know if I can watch this one. When mum was in the hospital, and not recovering fast enough for their liking, they wanted to move her to a local hospice. They wanted the bed free, and she didn’t have insurance beyond Medicare. She still needed surgery for an aneurysm. Dad was concerned, after they gave her a blood transfusion to give her some strength, and said that he would only allow her to be moved, if both of her doctors signed off on it.  They didn’t, so she was moved to the cheaper, busier, louder ward on the top floor, where the nurses were openly complaining about patients. She died, days later.  
 

with the people who said they would vote for trump, no matter what he did, I remember the “f*ck your feelings” from 2016, after he won.  Some people believe the lies they spread on certain topics, and the rest seem to thrive on hate. And then democrats are expected to be kind, always.  

Edited August 19 by Anela

[peeayebee]

Man, I'm so sorry @Anela. How awful.

As far as that guy (and others) supporting Trump "no matter what," I think part of it is their not wanting to admit they may have been wrong. Also, just supporting Republicans all the time. It doesn't matter if their candidate is stupid or a criminal or immoral... The candidate is Their Guy. Heck, I saw a sign in our neighborhood that said, "I'm voting for the felon." 

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, peeayebee said:

When John started with the weird supporters of Trump, I was really expecting him to bring up the specimen cups with JD Vance's picture on them that supporters are carrying. OMFG. Printed on each cup -- or as someone called it, Jizz Dispenser (J.D.) -- is "Full Family Kit." I think I also saw some that said, "Pro-Family." WHAT ARE THEY DOING?!? This is right up there with Real Men Wear Diapers for Trump. If they think this is owning the libs, they are only making us laugh at them.

I heard about this, yeah! I thought he was going to bring that up, too. Yeah, this right here? This is why people call his supporters weird. Supporting him because he echoes the kind of racist/sexist/xenophobic/homophobic/transphobic beliefs they have, or says and does the kinds of awful things they want to say and do, it's horrifying, but also sadly not surprising. 

But this sort of behavior goes WELL beyond simply supporting and agreeing with someone's rhetoric. This is just...I don't even know what the hell this si, and "weird", while certainly an accurate description for this kind of nonsense, also doesn't seem to even fully begin to properly describe this kind of behavior. This stuff right here, this is the sort of thing that will forever mystify me about Trump supporters. I just do not get how one gets to a place in their life where they think this sort of behavior is even remotely normal. 

7 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I've been talking strategy a lot from the opening segments the last few weeks. This is another. 'Owning the libs' just doesn't work anymore. Project 2025 is an actual document people can point to things in where you can say 'this just isn't good policy'. 

I don't know if Walz came up with it as a tactic or it just came out spontaneously, but 'weird' has been the best strategy since 'are you better off than you were 4 years ago?' in 1984. It's total disarray. I'm stunned at how hard it's landed, and to boot, how on message Democrats have been downballot, as John pointed out here. 

Yeah, I really appreciate that, too. They've finally figured out a type of messaging that seems to work and gets right to the point. Also helps that they're just standing back and letting the GOP's words speak for themselves - you look at the positive, enthusiastic attitude of the Harris campaign and then compare that with the deeply out of touch, grumpy, incredibly sexist and just plain nasty attitude of the Trump campaign, which has coalesced around a guy who just wants to spend his time ranting about whatever nonsense is on his mind, whether it's actually policy-related or not, and yeah, it's not surprising that people are responding far more favorably to the former. People are tired and exhausted and they're happy to finally have a candidate that is offering a light at the end of this dismal tunnel and a forward-looking campaign. 

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The guy running for Congress (or Senate?) who said Trump could drop his pants and take a dump on stage and he still wouldn't vote for Democrats "ever again" got me thinking, what exactly is this guy so mad at Democrats about? There are probably a sizable number of people who vote for Trump not because they like him or even like Republican policies but want to "punish" Democrats for some slight, whether real or perceived. And I think that's something worth exploring.

That was my question, too. They're just mad about something, because they were told to be mad about something, but they don't really know what that something is or why they need to be mad at it. 

But yeah, gosh, who'da thunk that a campaign that ran solely on "owning the libs" and taking down the "woke left" would run out of gas eventually? The most absolute diehard Trump supporters that still remain out there may not care that he has no actual policy to offer, but most voters, even if they're drawn to a candidate for superficial reasons initially, at the end of the day, they still also expect those politicians to actually, y'know, DO something. Going after reproductive rights or transgender rights or immigrants or so on might rile up the culture war votes and get them motivated for a time, but at the end of the day, putting restrictions and bans on all of those people still isn't going to magically bring anyone's jobs back, or tackle the infrastructure problems various places have, or help people who are struggling in the wake of a natural disaster, or things of that sort. At some point a politiician/party has to offer voters something more substantial than the typical culture war freakout nonsense, and if they can't do that, well...they're gonna pay for it in the end. 

As for the main story, I did not know hospice as a concept was such a relatively recent idea. But yeah, as horrifying as these stories were (the bit with the maggots, or the claerics who were told to perform last rites when they didn't actually need to, holy shit...)*, I also have to agree with this:

Quote

 

Nothing can shock me about the medical stuff. I don't know how anyone can thing for-profit healthcare is a good idea for anyone other than the profiteers.

 

 

 

Exactly. I don't know how many more stories of this sort we need before we finally wake up and join other countries in enacting universal healthcare in this country. 

*Waaaaaaaaaay too many examples of stories about people being told they needed to be in hospice when they actually didn't. Way, way too many. That should not be as common a scenario as this report made it appear to be. 

Also, sending hugs to everyone here who's had to deal with hospice firsthand and had to deal with awful situations around it besides. 

On a lighter note, I did like their parody of that weirdl hospice ad :p. The guy playing the husband in that parody ad looked familiar to me. 

Edited August 19 by Annber03

[Anela]

I’ve seen trump threatening that democrats will give us health care.  As if that’s a bad thing.  One thing they never mention, is that you can keep your insurance. In England, at least one aunt had private health insurance, with her husband.  Another guy who pissed off my mother, got me in to see his dentist right away, when I needed a filling, as an apology.  

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, Anela said:

I’ve seen trump threatening that democrats will give us health care.  As if that’s a bad thing. 

That's the part that's killing me here. "The Democrats want people to have free access to things like tampons and school lunches! They want to give everyone healthcare!"

And most voters are hearing that and being like, "...yeah, and...?" Like, yes, how dare a party actually offer things that benefit the population. That would be...bad...or something...

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

As for the main story, I did not know hospice as a concept was such a relatively recent idea.

Yeah, I didn't realize that either. It was interesting to learn that it originated from an English woman. I don't mean that there's any significance to her being English, just that I wouldn't think the idea would come from one person rather than an organization.

Quote

But yeah, as horrifying as these stories were (the bit with the maggots, or the claerics who were told to perform last rites when they didn't actually need to, holy shit...)

OMG, the maggots. Just... ugh. Unbelievable. 

Quote

On a lighter note, I did like their parody of that weirdl hospice ad :p. The guy playing the husband in that parody ad looked familiar to me. 

Ron Huebel. I always think of him as from Parks & Rec, but I was surprised when checking out his IMDB that he was only on one ep.  

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

That's the part that's killing me here. "The Democrats want people to have free access to things like tampons and school lunches! They want to give everyone healthcare!"

And most voters are hearing that and being like, "...yeah, and...?" Like, yes, how dare a party actually offer things that benefit the population. That would be...bad...or something...

Unfortunately, there are people who just can't stand when someone doesn't pay for something out of their own pocket. It doesn't matter if you're homeless and starving, living on the streets, how dare you ask for help. Bootstraps! Pull 'em! 

[Annber03]

13 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Ron Huebel. I always think of him as from Parks & Rec, but I was surprised when checking out his IMDB that he was only on one ep.  

That's who I thought it was, yeah! I know him from an episode of "Ghosts" :D. 

Quote

 

Unfortunately, there are people who just can't stand when someone doesn't pay for something out of their own pocket. It doesn't matter if you're homeless and starving, living on the streets, how dare you ask for help. Bootstraps! Pull 'em! 

 

And yet those same people will gripe about how they can't afford anything anymore and blame it on the very party who's actively trying to help ease that financial burden in some form or another, up to and including making some things free. 

Make it make sense...

[purist]

It's got to the stage that whenever John starts to tell us about the origins of a particular evil or dysfunctional thing, I say, 'I bet it started with Reagan.' And then I'm proven right. Here we are again, with the privatisation of hospice care! That guy sure was responsible for a lot of bad stuff.

[shapeshifter]

45 minutes ago, purist said:

It's got to the stage that whenever John starts to tell us about the origins of a particular evil or dysfunctional thing, I say, 'I bet it started with Reagan.' And then I'm proven right. Here we are again, with the privatisation of hospice care! That guy sure was responsible for a lot of bad stuff.

But wasn’t Reagan mostly a figurehead with Alzheimer’s who still had an actor’s mellifluous voice? Who was really running the country?

[Palimelon]

No, he didn't have Alzheimer's, while president. Like Thatcher, he was just an awful person.

[rwlevin]

He didn’t officially have Alzheimer’s as president but there are a lot of people who said after he was diagnosed that the signs had been there. I don’t know, I was a kid.

Both my stepdad and grandfather were in hospice and both hospices were run through hospitals, one of which was run by the city, so it’s just foreign to me that hospice could be for profit like that. It was great for my family. My grandmother was given a “friend” with whom she would go out for coffee. When my stepdad was near the end, and became delirious and violent and we couldn’t take care of him at home anymore, he was placed inpatient where he passed away several days later. It was a nice place, very calming. My stepdad’s mother was also in inpatient hospice, interestingly the same place I went to preschool, yes I went to preschool in a hospice. Supposedly having little kids around made the patients feel better.

Meanwhile, I could have sworn John Oliver covered hospice before. I remember watching a segment not that long ago that hit all the points John made: the private hospice companies, people going door-to-door to sign up people for hospice, losing the ability to get treatment if they’re signed up, a bunch of hospices being run out of the same building, etc. if it wasn’t John Oliver, who covered it? Adam Conover?

[Palimelon]

He did do a similar episode about long term care in general in 2021.

 

[peeayebee]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And yet those same people will gripe about how they can't afford anything anymore and blame it on the very party who's actively trying to help ease that financial burden in some form or another, up to and including making some things free. 

And many of those people drive gas-guzzling pickup trucks across multiple states for rallies and protests.

1 hour ago, rwlevin said:

He didn’t officially have Alzheimer’s as president but there are a lot of people who said after he was diagnosed that the signs had been there. I don’t know, I was a kid.

I thought it was well-established that he was showing signs of Alzheimer's (or at least cognitive decline) while President. 

[Shrek]

14 hours ago, Anela said:

I’ve seen trump threatening that democrats will give us health care.  As if that’s a bad thing.  One thing they never mention, is that you can keep your insurance. In England, at least one aunt had private health insurance, with her husband.  Another guy who pissed off my mother, got me in to see his dentist right away, when I needed a filling, as an apology.  

I had private healthcare as part of my job in the U.K. over 20 years ago so it is possible and not a new thing. If I told you how much it cost me for the year you probably wouldn't believe me. Thankfully I only had to use it once or twice & that was for nothing major.

[Anela]

55 minutes ago, Shrek said:

I had private healthcare as part of my job in the U.K. over 20 years ago so it is possible and not a new thing. If I told you how much it cost me for the year you probably wouldn't believe me. Thankfully I only had to use it once or twice & that was for nothing major.

I know, this was in the 80s. :) 

[Lugal]

I remember a few years ago I had a friend who worked for hospice (administrative) and mentioned how the boss was awful and trying to squeeze every penny.  And berated her for missing so much work (she was fighting cancer at the time).  She came back and retired after a few weeks.

17 hours ago, Annber03 said:

That was my question, too. They're just mad about something, because they were told to be mad about something, but they don't really know what that something is or why they need to be mad at it.

They're mad because forty years of neo-liberal economics has led to greater precarity and atomization of everyone.  It didn't matter when it was the poor and working classes who suffered, but now the privileged classes (the bourgeois, for lack of a better word) are starting to feel the pinch too, and as their privileges are eroding, they're getting angry about it.  And the people responsible for all this managed to redirect a lot of that rage to scapegoats, like the old joke:

Trump came along and attacked the people they hate (those same scapegoats) and promises to restore the way things were and put them back on top (even though it will never happen because he serves the interests that make their lives worse).

17 hours ago, Anela said:

I’ve seen trump threatening that democrats will give us health care.

Don't threaten us with a good time.

[Makai]

On 8/19/2024 at 7:15 AM, peeayebee said:

When John started with the weird supporters of Trump, I was really expecting him to bring up the specimen cups with JD Vance's picture on them that supporters are carrying.

That hit social media after they filmed. At this rate, every episode this season is going to need a filmed on Saturday disclaimer. Every week there has been a crazy political thing happening on Sunday. 

On 8/19/2024 at 2:05 PM, iMonrey said:

The guy running for Congress (or Senate?) who said Trump could drop his pants and take a dump on stage and he still wouldn't vote for Democrats "ever again" got me thinking, what exactly is this guy so mad at Democrats about? There are probably a sizable number of people who vote for Trump not because they like him or even like Republican policies but want to "punish" Democrats for some slight, whether real or perceived. And I think that's something worth exploring.

Since he’s a conspiracy theorist, my guess it’s that he and others like him are big mad that Democrats (and people they perceive to be Democrats) won’t act like there is any validity in their dumb ass theories. 

Which is also why the Harris/Waltz strategy has been so effective. In my experience, nothing undermines a narcissist more than perceived disrespect. They have to destroy the offending party even if it exposes their own lies in the process. 

On 8/19/2024 at 4:20 PM, Annber03 said:

That's the part that's killing me here. "The Democrats want people to have free access to things like tampons and school lunches! They want to give everyone healthcare!"

And most voters are hearing that and being like, "...yeah, and...?" Like, yes, how dare a party actually offer things that benefit the population. That would be...bad...or something...

This is so true. The number of times Fox News, Trump and Vance have ended up inadvertently campaigned for Harris has been amazing. 

Edited August 24 by Makai

[andromeda331]

That commercial at the end was terrible and hilarious at same time. 

Republicans are just so bizarre. The idiot who voted against a bill that would help Hospice or at least just look into it. He also voted no on to appeal the sentences on those condemned as witches. Ah, what? Does he still think they were witches? (John was right also about how it was only last year that Connecticut exonerated them?). Of course he voted no. 

When has it ever been a bad thing? A every single time? When has it not been a problem? Hospice isn't be profitable it's suppose to help and care for people at the end of their lives. That's it. 

[Lantern7]

I can’t add anything substantial this late. The “weird” label seems to stick to Republicans a little too well. Even when John was talking about hospice care, he brought up the one guy who was lobbying for the big money guys.

Subject was depressing. Skit was funny. How can a woman see her husband getting end-of-life care AND constantly fucking?

[heatherchandler]

On 8/20/2024 at 11:42 AM, Lugal said:

They're mad because forty years of neo-liberal economics has led to greater precarity and atomization of everyone.  It didn't matter when it was the poor and working classes who suffered, but now the privileged classes (the bourgeois, for lack of a better word) are starting to feel the pinch too, and as their privileges are eroding, they're getting angry about it.

That’s exactly it, I would think more people get this.