S21.E12: Goodbye, Wisconsin

[carrps]

  On 6/8/2024 at 9:21 AM, Yeah No said:

I'm sure that won't be a popular opinion, but if they're going to let someone into the competition with a disability that might impact their speed at completing the challenges, isn't it more fair to give them some kind of accommodation for it than to let them struggle through it unaided?

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No. I don't see any way they could do that would not unfairly handicap the other competitors. Criminy, he's made it to the finals without any special handholding. And what about those with issues like Kaleena? Should she have special consideration for her anxiety issues? I see it as opening a huge can of worms that wouldn't help much in any case.

[Yeah No]

  On 6/8/2024 at 7:56 PM, carrps said:

No. I don't see any way they could do that would not unfairly handicap the other competitors. Criminy, he's made it to the finals without any special handholding. And what about those with issues like Kaleena? Should she have special consideration for her anxiety issues? I see it as opening a huge can of worms that wouldn't help much in any case.

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I think Dan making the finals says a lot about his abilities as a chef and I don't see giving him an extra few minutes in every competition as unfairly handicapping anyone else.  I don't consider anxiety to be something that easily accommodatable in a competition like this, like needing extra time because one has a physical limitation.  If it's not possible to accommodate someone it's understandable if they say they can't and leave it at that.  It's my understanding that reasonable accommodation means exactly that and if they can't find a reasonable (and in this case fair) way to accommodate someone they don't have to.

Also, one would have to have been officially designated as having a disability to qualify for that kind of thing.  My husband only learned that he was a dyslexic a few years ago.  He's older and back in the stone age kids were not recognized or diagnosed so he fell through the cracks.  No one, not even I understood why such a smart guy got lousy grades and couldn't make it in college and dropped out.  This held him back big time from achieving his goals in life.  He wanted to be an architect and had the talent for it, but good luck doing that without college.  Unfortunately everything he was suited to do and had ambition for he needed that to achieve.  When he finally realized his problem he had to go through all the time, expense and effort to seek out a professional to test him and officially state that he is a dyslexic.  He now is able to use that official status to get him extra time on tests or to complete projects when he takes courses in college, which he is doing right now.  Otherwise he would just get frustrated and drop out yet again.  I doubt that everyone who has anxiety issues would be able to qualify for any kind of accommodation that would be relevant to a competition like this or even possible to implement.  

That said, I still admire Dan for not going the route of being accommodated.  That's real confidence that he felt he had a chance without it.  He wasn't always this disabled so he was fortunate to have been well enough in the past to get where he is today without accommodation, though.  And he probably doesn't need it so much at work anyway, just in a competition like this which is out of the ordinary for him.

If anyone remembers Christine Ha who won MasterChef several years ago, she is blind and I remember reading she had extra help behind the scenes in each of the challenges to help even the playing field for her, like people that went shopping with her to pick out the food she wanted to use for each challenge, etc.  There's no shame in that although they didn't let the audience actually see that happening on the final cut.  And even knowing that, no one thought she didn't deserve the win or had any unfair advantage as a result.

Edited June 8, 2024 by Yeah No

[bravofan27]

Well, Dan does have accommodations. He uses a cane and he has braces on his knees. He also waits until the kitchen is clear to enter so he doesn't get mauled by someone and goes to the kitchen rather than fridge first so he can set up his space with plenty of room.

[marybennet]

The cane and braces are prosthetics, and his deciding to wait until the kitchen is clear is his choice or the consequence of the way the running of the chefs disables him.   An accommodation would be production finding a way to help him carry things when one hand is occupied with his cane. An accommodation is a change in work circumstances to make those circumstances less disabling for the person who has a disability. Or it’s my making sure there’s a way for my blind student to hear test questions that other students are reading. 

Edited June 9, 2024 by marybennet

[bravofan27]

I thought it was pretty cruddy that with the taste test part of the game, they had people take hold of these really small portion cups. I could see Dan was struggling to keep them in his hands, and he has said fine motor is impacted by Kennedy's disease. I don't know how they could have better accommodated him, but I'm sure there were many alternatives to make it more accessible to him.

[tljgator]

  On 6/8/2024 at 10:36 PM, marybennet said:

his deciding to wait until the kitchen is clear is his choice or the consequence of the way the running of the chef disables him.   An accommodation would be production finding a way to help him carry things when one hand is occupied with his cane.

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Yes. The thing that's bothered me most all season is when they say "GO!" and everyone goes running to get to sometimes limited ingredients -- Dan waits, so as not to get caught in a stampede, and may miss out on certain items. Also, when collecting things from the pantry area, he might need to make multiple trips to carry things, etc. [I often have to explain to folks at work that, no, borrowing an umbrella wouldn't have helped me not get soaking wet coming in from the parking lot because I can't carry it and my bag and walk with a cane.]

 

[Yeah No]

  On 6/9/2024 at 2:55 AM, tljgator said:

Yes. The thing that's bothered me most all season is when they say "GO!" and everyone goes running to get to sometimes limited ingredients -- Dan waits, so as not to get caught in a stampede, and may miss out on certain items. Also, when collecting things from the pantry area, he might need to make multiple trips to carry things, etc. [I often have to explain to folks at work that, no, borrowing an umbrella wouldn't have helped me not get soaking wet coming in from the parking lot because I can't carry it and my bag and walk with a cane.]

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Yes, these are precisely the reasons I've thought that Dan might need more time for the playing field to be level for him. And I've also noticed how his waiting might have made him miss out on certain limited ingredients, which has bothered me as well. Talking about this is actually making me wonder if he is being accommodated somehow and we're just not being shown that.

ETA:  It looks like this has been discussed on Reddit, including whether he is being accommodated and whether the show should let us see that if he is.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TopChef/comments/1cuybk2/thinking_about_ableism/

 

Edited June 9, 2024 by Yeah No

[jabRI]

I like Savannah, but Laura really impresses me. I think she's a bit of a sleeper because she's not very outspoken and lowkey, like  Stephanie  Izard was in her season, if memory serves.

[AriAu]

I agree with the comments above about this season being pretty meh. Food and cheftestants have been pretty bland-no mad scientists or jerks, no amazing dishes that judges raved about....other than Manny's pozole the very first week. The cheftestants performing the best most of the season (Dan and Danny) are also bland and I think that is why Michelle became so beloved.

Huge Dan fan so I was worried about him this week...right up until I saw how raw Tom's fish was and I knew he was safe. Love his attitude and the fact he has consistently turned out top tier food....and if you doubt that, go check out the chart at Wikipedia-only other low was the Sausage Race and even then they said that the food tasted good.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Chef:_Wisconsin.

The Elves almost always pick somebody local as a cheftestant so Dan's familiarity with the Wisconsin traditions and the guest chefs is not off putting to me. However, his is the 2nd time that I can recall that the local person has performed so well-they are usually gone early, other than Stephanie Izard who's restaurant in Chicago closed a few months before she stopped the Richard Blais coronation that season!

And, yes, I do think that the disability is hurting Dan's results in the Quick Fires...and no, I do not think they should make special accommodations for him.

Not sure what Savannah was trying to do making a pave as a main course other than having a dish match her story, rather than the other way around. While it does seem like she is on an Adrienne/Melissa King (1st time thru) late season charge, she doesnt seem to be turning out dishes that are at a super elevated level.

Laura is kicking ass, but something about her is just not likeable, but she is also not a villian.

Heard on the Pack Your Knives podcast that in the taste test race, they took out the bacon and pork chops for Danny who does not eat pork products for religious reasons...not sure I have ever heard of them doing that before, but I think that is very considerate and appropriate. He has to still be the favorite in a "cook the meal of your life" finale since he has the potential to wow them with his technique.

[surfgirl]

Whilst I am admittedly watching this season a bit half assed, I too am happy with both Laura and Savannah going on to the finals, as well as Danny, all well deserved from what I've seen.

I'm not surprised Manny got axed because I have not been impressed with him at all this season and each week wonder how he is managing to stay another week. I also feel the same way about Dan, how has be made it this far? He comes across as thinking he's above it all and so much better than everyone else but it seems to me like misplaced ago, he's not that good. I wish someone else was in the finals tbh.

Also, probably not a popular opinion but I'm so over Tom on this show. He always seems like he's in a mood, never happy, always bitching and rarely happy about anything. Plus his table manners bug the crap out of me, he holds his cutlery like a caveman, actually that's probably an insult to cavemen. Anyway, he just seems so over this show so I don't know why they don't replace him with someone who wants to be there. I wish Eric Ripert would be a full season judge but I'm sure he is too busy with actual cheffing.

[Irlandesa]

  On 6/10/2024 at 7:10 PM, surfgirl said:

I'm not surprised Manny got axed because I have not been impressed with him at all this season and each week wonder how he is managing to stay another week. I also feel the same way about Dan, how has be made it this far?

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I don't see anything similar about Manny and Dan's trajectories.  After the first two weeks, Manny lived in the bottom 3 in elimination challenges.  Dan, on the other hand, has had more top 3 appearances than any other contestant this season. That's why he's in the finals. 

For comparison (elimination challenge only because Wikipedia doesn't include thorough QF data):

Dan:  7 top three finishes.  2 wins.  2 bottom 3s.
Savannah:  5 top 3 finishes.  2 wins. 2 bottom 3s.
Danny: 6 top 3 finishes. 3 wins. 1 bottom 3.
Laura: 2 top 3 finishes.  1 win.  3 bottom 3s, including one actual elimination.  Manny: 2 top 3 finishes.  1 win.  6 bottom 3s and one actual elimination. 

So Dan has been stronger as a cheftestant than perhaps perception has him. And I'm intrigued that Laura is also seen as stronger than her overall results indicate. 

[mlp]

Why does TC usually go to a new venue for the finale?  Maybe everyone but me knows the reason but ????????????????

[AriAu]

  Quote

Why does TC usually go to a new venue for the finale?  Maybe everyone but me knows the reason but ????????????????

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Not 100% certain, but the best guess is $$$$$$$, the almighty dollar. It gives them a second chance to get a local tourism board, or in this case a cruise line, to kick in funds! Other than the pandemic season, I don't remember them NOT going somewhere else.

I actually just looked at Wikipedia and in info for the Houston season they mention the money kicked in by Visit Tucson.

[kirklandia]

  On 6/10/2024 at 10:48 PM, AriAu said:

Other than the pandemic season, I don't remember them NOT going somewhere else.

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In the pandemic season of 2021, they did get to go to a "resort" - on the Oregon coast. They filmed a couple episodes and stayed at the Surfsand in Cannon Beach.  
Not the finale.

Edited June 11, 2024 by kirklandia

[mlp]

  On 6/10/2024 at 10:48 PM, AriAu said:

Not 100% certain, but the best guess is $$$$$$$

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That didn't even occur to me.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that you're right.  

[desertflower]

It really is kind of fascinating how a contestant can be perceived so differently by different viewers. It makes me wonder how people would perceive me if I was on one of these shows. I’m not sure I’d want to know, even though I think I’m a nice person. You just never know how your body language or general demeanor might come across. Personally I like Dan and don’t see him as entitled at all. He actually seems pretty self deprecating and will be the first to say when he messed up a dish. And I never thought he was complaining about his disability, it just seemed to me that he was matter of factly explaining some of what he experiences. But I can see how others might find him grumpy. 

It was for sure Manny’s time to go but he did seem like a really nice guy and I loved his graceful exit and remarks to the judges. 

Go Savannah!! I’m sorry I confused you with the other young brunette gals in the first few weeks of the show. 😆

[Rai]

  On 6/11/2024 at 3:12 PM, desertflower said:

Go Savannah!! I’m sorry I confused you with the other young brunette gals in the first few weeks of the show. 😆

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This was me too. They seemed very interchangeable at that time. Which is weird because in earlier seasons, I usually got a fix on everyone pretty early on even if they were low-key or whatever.

Also, I have a naturally serious demeanor, a low, droning voice, and a deadpan delivery of jokes, so I know I would be totally disliked on a reality show. My teeth aren't perfect either. So many marks against me already! 😀

[ZettaK]

  On 6/6/2024 at 9:04 PM, caitmcg said:

I believe that was a bollito misto, a very traditional Italian prep. Think mixed grill except, um, "boiled" (actually simmered, but the literal translation is mixed boil).

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Northern Italian. 

[dabbrusc]

I found it really cool that they gave Danny blueberries instead of bacon for the B in his blind taste test. I assume it's because he's Muslim and can't eat pork.

[LBC Me]

  On 6/6/2024 at 8:28 PM, carrps said:

Yeah, I hate how Dan plays up his Wisconsinism so much. Sometimes he hails a guest chef who then gives Dan a look like, Dude, you are not my bestie. Plus, he made the decision to go into this competition knowing about his physical limitations (and also his age), so I don't feel any special sympathy for him in that way. And stop whining so much! You weren't drafted. I've grown to almost dislike him.

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Get out of my head, @carrps because I agree with EVERYTHING you said here.  He applied for the show 13 times, presumably having watched the show and seeing the physical toll it takes on the chefs.  Although that may be something you need to experience to understand.

  On 6/7/2024 at 7:09 AM, Irlandesa said:

But lemongrass was a big component of the dish he wanted to make.  Not having it was terrible for him. 

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If that's the case, he should have made sure to buy it at the first store they went to.  Maybe I'm missing something?

  On 6/7/2024 at 10:21 PM, mlp said:

I get the feeling that the other chefs aren't crazy about [Laura] either.

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Heard.  This episode made it abundantly clear to me that Laura is not well-liked by the remaining chefs.  After Savannah and Laura had both made it thru to the finals and everyone went back into the stew room, the guys enthusiastically congratulated Savannah and hugged her, and then did a separate, half-ass, oh yeah nod to Laura.

Edited Wednesday at 08:27 PM by LBC Me