Lois & Clark - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Talk about Lois & Clark here.

[BkWurm1]

Most of the Lois Lane's in their many different incarnations have brought something worthy to the character (my personal exception is Erica Durance of Smallville) but I think no one has done a better job of bringing Lois Lane to life with all her perfect imperfections than Terri Hatcher in Lois & Clark. 

 

I finally understood why the greatest man on earth fell head over heels.

[BkWurm1]

I don't know if this was the first time that Clark Kent was the real man and Superman the disguise but I know for me, Dean Cain's Clark Kent is what made me love Superman.  He's smart, he's funny, he's good at his job...and he can fly around and stop bullets. 

 

What's not to love?

[rujasu]

Loved this show as a kid, done some rewatching on DVD lately.  I think Cain's portrayal of Kent is very underrated.  Certainly preferable to the "gritty" version we recently saw in Man of Steel.  I do think Cain makes a better Kent than Superman, and I'm not sure if he would have fit well into a straight Superman action series, but for this style of show he was a good choice.

 

Also, as an adult I've come to believe that any time Clark adjusts his glasses, he's using the X-ray vision.  Notice how often he does so when chatting with Lois or "Cat" in S1.

[BkWurm1]

Certainly preferable to the "gritty" version we recently saw in Man of Steel.

 

I didn't hate the small character moments in Man of Steel.  The guy who showed up in the graveyard and laid out his reasons why he didn't want his secret exposed and then trusted Lois to make the right choice, that was a guy with a lot of untapped faith and humanity but all the destruction and killing that was just awful.

 

Still, I do think that Dean Cain was the very best Clark Kent.  Like you said, his Superman was serviceable but it was as Clark were he shined best.

 

Also, as an adult I've come to believe that any time Clark adjusts his glasses, he's using the X-ray vision.  Notice how often he does so when chatting with Lois or "Cat" in S1.

 

Ha!  I'll have to go back and check out my DVD's.

 

That's one of the things I loved about this Clark, he had a real sense of humor.

 

I also loved that he didn't have a tragedy laden childhood.  I ADORED that his parents were still alive.  I think since the this may have been the only live action series where Jonathan Kent is allowed to live. 

[rujasu]

Yeah, I loved Ma and Pa Kent in this series.  No tragedy, no weighty drama, just good, believable mother & father characters.  It was one of the many ways that the show managed to have compelling characters and ideas, while decidedly not taking itself too seriously.

 

Of course the show had its flaws (from what I remember, by the third or fourth season it had leaped over several sharks in a single bound) but there was a lot to like about it.

[pootlus]

I didn't hate the small character moments in Man of Steel.  The guy who showed up in the graveyard and laid out his reasons why he didn't want his secret exposed and then trusted Lois to make the right choice, that was a guy with a lot of untapped faith and humanity but all the destruction and killing that was just awful.

Yeah the whoosh-boom sound in the MoS film wasn't Clark flying, it was the producers/director missing the whole fucking point of Superman.

Still, I do think that Dean Cain was the very best Clark Kent.  Like you said, his Superman was serviceable but it was as Clark were he shined best.

Dean Cain will always be my Clark Kent. Helped that I was 22 when the show started and just the right age to really get into a romantic comedy (this is the show that made me into a hopeless romantic/shipper).

 

That's one of the things I loved about this Clark, he had a real sense of humor.

 

I also loved that he didn't have a tragedy laden childhood.  I ADORED that his parents were still alive.  I think since the this may have been the only live action series where Jonathan Kent is allowed to live.

This is the one depiction where you really understood how Clark's parents could make him into the person that he became (unlike, say, Smallville). They were just so awesome how could he not become a superhero?

The amusing thing about the show is not that I have to suspend disbelief for a flying man who could bend steel bars with his bare hands, but that I have to suspend disbelief that Lois could not notice the ridiculously gorgeous, funny, smart, kind, romantic guy on the desk next door. I guess that's why they had to make her so emotionally damaged/blocked - otherwise it would have been completely unbelievable.

[pootlus]

Teri Hatcher will always be my Lois Lane - while I've liked other Loises for various reasons, no-one will ever come close.

 

Her mixture of 40s-tough-gal with a dose of vulnerability, plus the playfulness she allows Clark to bring out of her will always melt my heart.

 

Just let's not talk about the post Season 2 hair.

[BkWurm1]

Her mixture of 40s-tough-gal with a dose of vulnerability, plus the playfulness she allows Clark to bring out of her will always melt my heart.

 

That's a great summary of why I enjoy her character so much. 

 

About the 40's tough gal thing, in connection with Lauren Bacall's recent passing I read an article that commented on the irony of movies in the golden age of Hollywood embracing the image of the mature, strong female (smart, comfortable with her sexuality, low sultry voices,) when outside of the movies they were often treated as children or objects while today in the movies the females on screen are often infantilized - awkward sexually,  more quirky or cute than sexy, flighty and scattered, bodies of a teenager rather than a woman, ect. but in real life actually command a lot of control and power (if not respect)

 

I think that Lois even at her most extreme in this show was written as smart and well respected first and foremost and that appreciation for  the character always came though.      

 

Just let's not talk about the post Season 2 hair.

 

I know!  Seriously, what was she thinking?????

Edited September 18, 2014 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

Of course the show had its flaws (from what I remember, by the third or fourth season it had leaped over several sharks in a single bound) but there was a lot to like about it.

 

At the time I remember some serious head shaking but since  then I spent ten years on Smallville and I'd take a little eye rolling and embarrassed head shaking over soul destroying hate.  Ii think I spent two years detoxing from that show before I could even talk about it without spiraling down into a crazy person rant.  (and it's still a work in progress)   In each episode that silly stuff never sounded nearly as silly as when you looked back later (the rubber rats, the frog eating clone, the dud with the really big brain)

 

It did some over the top stories but when it always rang true when it came to relationships and real emotions.  That to me never seemed over the top. 

[BkWurm1]

Helped that I was 22 when the show started and just the right age to really get into a romantic comedy (this is the show that made me into a hopeless romantic/shipper).

 

:)  I was 19 but I started as a hopeless romantic / shipper really early.  My first outing was in 1984 when I was 10 and watching Remington Steele though even earlier  I recall being really into the romance between Thundar the Barbarian and the Sorceress Princess Ariel during my Saturday morning cartoons.  No wonder I'm still suck a sap today. 

 

This is the one depiction where you really understood how Clark's parents could make him into the person that he became (unlike, say, Smallville). They were just so awesome how could he not become a superhero?

 

This soooo much. 

 

The amusing thing about the show is not that I have to suspend disbelief for a flying man who could bend steel bars with his bare hands, but that I have to suspend disbelief that Lois could not notice the ridiculously gorgeous, funny, smart, kind, romantic guy on the desk next door.

 

And that even didn't last past the first season (before they had her forget about Clark for the sake of their friendship.)  It just occurred to me that Clark pulled a Chloe pretending he really didn't want anything more from Lois but her friendship. 

[jah1986]

Dean Cain really was the best Clark Kent, he wasn't a bumbling idiot and so in love with Lois that he couldn't function around her.  Loved his parents too.  And the show did a good  job not dragging out Lois and Clark getting together.  I always wished the movies had taken on a more Clark Kent is who I am, Superman is what I can do look at the character because it was the best one I ever heard.  Of course the final seasons were just a mess but the first two were great.

[jah1986]

I've always thought Teri Hatcher was probably one of the best Lois Lane's. I really liked that she didn't treat Clark like dirt.  She was smart, funny etc. without having to prove to anyone how tough she was.  I think TH and DC just had tremendous chemistry that helped the show so much.

[BkWurm1]

Of course the final seasons were just a mess but the first two were great.

 

I blame the old fear of permanently getting the leads together aka the Moonlighting curse.  It still today makes show runners go to ridiculous lengths to avoid writing couples after their coupledom is established. 

 

I've always found it ironic that show runners don't have the same problem writing couples that are already together. 

 

Suddenly I have a desire to see a modern take on Lois & Clark that maintains the warmth and charm but isn't afraid to really explore what life after the wedding would be like (without the froggy fake outs, the multiple personalities, amnesia and other over the top tricks designed to avoid realistically dealing with it. 

[BkWurm1]

I really appreciate that Lois was introduced first and foremost as a reporter.   They didn't go for the glamour shot, they didn't have her just walk by and have people comment on how awesome she was, the show took the time to show us and then it used other characters to support what we the audience had already seen. 

 

I can't help but contrast it with what Smallville did.  It was all tell and no show. 

[pootlus]

I blame the old fear of permanently getting the leads together aka the Moonlighting curse.  It still today makes show runners go to ridiculous lengths to avoid writing couples after their coupledom is established.

It's bizarre because they did actually manage to get the occasional conflict in (they got sloppy and let a pap take a photo of Superman making out with Lois in Sex, Lies and Videotape, Clark gets souped up on red K and inadvertently hurts Lois in Lethal Weapon, and Lois gets promoted over Clark in Stop the Presses). I think they were hampered by the fact that it was a strongly episodic show and so they didn't want to have, say, Lois and Clark falling out for two or three episodes.

I've long been of the opinion that it was the stupid frog clone/amnesia arc that sent viewers running. The Luthor's (other - how many love children did the man have?) son arc in S4 was also pretty meh, and the least said about Fat Head the better. The show was always better when Clark was the only supernatural element around.

 

Suddenly I have a desire to see a modern take on Lois & Clark that maintains the warmth and charm but isn't afraid to really explore what life after the wedding would be like (without the froggy fake outs, the multiple personalities, amnesia and other over the top tricks designed to avoid realistically dealing with it.

With the same actors (20 years on, no Lane Smith sadly) or new ones? I was in a Dean Cain panel in August when he said he was more than happy to do a TV movie to wrap the show up, "I'd have to hit the gym for a month first!" was his only caveat.

[pootlus]

I've always thought Teri Hatcher was probably one of the best Lois Lane's. I really liked that she didn't treat Clark like dirt.

She did at first, but one of the things about the relationship that I loved - and that caused Lois to first respect, then fall in love with him, is that Clark did not take her shit lying down and got his own back.

She was smart, funny etc. without having to prove to anyone how tough she was.  I think TH and DC just had tremendous chemistry that helped the show so much.

Oh, absolutely. Lois was the established reporter, she had multiple awards under her belt. In the pilot episode we see just how far she's prepared to go to get a story - if Clark hadn't been there (or had been human) they all would have died in the warehouse.

As for the chemistry - yowza. One thing I didn't get until recent rewatches is that Clark pretty much asks her out on a date in the first episode and she accepts before remembering that it's the same night as her 'interview' with Luthor. Then of course he screws it all up when instead of rescheduling, he accuses Lois of being prepared to sleep with Luthor to get the story. Lois's fury in response is just perfect and sums her character up so well, especially with the later confession to Clark in the warehouse.

[BkWurm1]

I'd love a reunion except for the part where all reunion shows first have the it couple broken up so the reunion show can get them back together. That kind of ruins all the offscreen years I between for me.

[BkWurm1]

I don't know if there were any behind the scenes goings on but I never quite got over losing our season one Jimmy. In some ways he wasn't the traditional Jimmy from the comics. He was more a peer than a junior apprentice and I liked that. It made sense that he and Clark were friends.

On the other hand I can't hate the new guy just cause he smiled too much. He was very much old school Jimmy and he did what the producers wanted him to do.

I just missed the original take on him. If they needed the young kid they should have let Jack stick around.

[BkWurm1]

Lane Smith is my definitive Perry. Wise yet gruff, dedicated but practical, supportive and demanding. He was every inch the old newspaper hound...and this old hound dog loved everything Elvis.

Loved every moment he was on screen.

[pootlus]

There is never a moment that I don't love Lane Smith's Perry in...if there's the definition of the consummate professional he is it. Every single line delivery is wham, bam, out of the park.

Absolutely adored the relationship between him and Lois. He had amazing (platonic, obviously) chemistry with Teri Hatcher.

Every time I see the Ice Bucket Challenge I think of Lane Smith. Sniff.

Big question is though, did Perry know about Clark? I incline towards yes - the guy was just too perceptive to not figure it out, especially when Lois and Clark got together.

[rujasu]

Ha, I knew this would be the title of this thread.  What else could it be?

[Kromm]

Teri Hatcher will always be my Lois Lane - while I've liked other Loises for various reasons, no-one will ever come close.

Well it was certainly Hatcher's best role, other than Amy The Love Boat Mermaid.

[Trini]

Re-watching this show decades later, I see that it had it fair share of 90's-flavored cheese, but I still think it holds up well. The hotness of Dean Cain, and the chemistry between him and Teri Hatcher cover a multitude of sins.

 

I always liked how L&C showed Superman/Clark as a real person. I do wonder about how the show was initially pitched/created. Framing it as a romantic comedy was a really new way to present Superman. It worked, obviously, but I don't think it had been done before.

[BkWurm1]

fair share of 90's-flavored cheese, but I still think it holds up well.

 

I agree and I think that comes down to the actors portrayal of these people.  Even when crazy stuff happens, the actors (at least the regulars and for the most part) keep it grounded.

 

There's an easy to connect to emotional resonance between the characters.  I believe that Clark Kent would be bowled over by Lois Lane.  I believe that Lois would initially be infatuated with Superman but eventually truly fall in love with Clark.  Honestly, that's something Smallville in 10 years never did for me. 

[rujasu]

Watched the S1 episode with the "smart kids" the other day.  Didn't really remember this episode and I can't say it's one of the better ones.  I guess they were trying to appeal to the children watching the show.  (I doubt it worked, and how much help do you need getting kids to like Superman?)

[BkWurm1]

I'm blanking on this episode. Apparently I need a refresher.

[pootlus]

It's not particularly memorable except that the kids actually work out that Clark is Superman, after which Clark tries to disabuse them in a hilarious scene where he's all daggy, his apartment is a mess and he's drooling pizza.

 

Also Clark steals evidence and Lois loves it.

 

But the kids are all such terrible actors that I only every skim over the episode.

[BkWurm1]

Lol, I'm still blanking on it.  I may have to pull out my DVD's. 

 

Shows should not rely on landing good child actors for episode work, casting with lots of time in advance is hard enough. 

[pootlus]

It's arguably the weakest episode of what is generally a pretty solid first season - particularly as it immediately precedes some of my favourite episodes of all - "The Green, Green Glow of Home", "Pheromone, My Lovely", "Honeymoon in Metropolis" and "All Shook Up" (and the one I missed - "Man of Steel Bars" - isn't bad either).

[mtlchick]

I haven't watched my DVDs in years but this thread is inspiring me to break them out.  I ADORED that show.  It was the reason I got on the internet to begin with!

[Trini]

I'll have to check to see if my library/local rental place has the DVDs. I was re-watching on the HUB network, but they stopped airing it. ::pout::

[BkWurm1]

"Honeymoon in Metropolis" is probably the best example of the old "couple forced to live together" trope.  It does wonders to advance the Lois & Clark's friendship right away and sets all sorts of expectations for the future, plus the "pretend kiss" has to be one of the hottest of it's kind.  Imagine the gif they would make of it now.   :D

[larcollins]

I read somewhere Jimmy #1 was replaced because they (the network?) thought he looked too much like Clark.

[BkWurm1]

Well, they had the same color hair.  Maybe eye color too.   Insert eye roll.  Definitely a bad case of meddling. 

 

I figured someone got their nose out of joint because Jimmy Olsen wasn't a gee willikers, teenage bowtie collector, but that was what I liked about him.  He made sense as a friend of Clarks.  This Jimmy was a little cynical and a little sarcastic and made a nice foil for Clark.  I never understood the weirdly close friendship between the middle aged man (in the 1940's I swear mid thirties was middle aged) and a teenager.  This Jimmy was around the same age, he had some ambitions but wasn't really on any kind of fast track, still trying to figure things out.  He actually had his own storyline. 

 

It took me months before I stopped wanting to smack the grin off the new guy's face.  (Ok, still working on it)  I hated him for a while but eventually decided for one, it wasn't the actor's fault and for two, his character just wasn't important enough to bother hating.  He filled a name and that was about it.  Actually in the last seasons I enjoyed Jimmy and Perry just standing around commenting on L&C.  It was so bad it was good. 

 

Along with losing original recipe Jimmy we also lost...oh, I'm blanking on his name...the kid that they gave a job to at the Planet.  I liked him too and they just dumped his storyline.  

Edited November 26, 2014 by BkWurm1

[The Crazed Spruce]

Along with losing original recipe Jimmy we also lost...oh, I'm blanking on his name...the kid that they gave a job to at the Planet.  I liked him too and they just dumped his storyline.

Not to mention Cat Grant. I mean, sure, they only gave her about two minutes worth of characterization outside of "stereotypical office tramp", but it would've been nice if they brought her back, and maybe fleshed out her character a bit. (She had much more depth in the comics at the time.)

[bettername2come]

I was a kid when this show aired originally, so the second Jimmy holds a special place in my heart because Justin Whalin was just so cute. I do appreciate how both Jimmys aren't the bow tie wearing type.

 

Actually in the last seasons I enjoyed Jimmy and Perry just standing around commenting on L&C.

 

I love that line in season 2 about being supporting characters in their story, and then commenting that they need to go get lives of their own. 

[Trini]

It's interesting how trends change.  These days the hottest things to do with comic book properties is to have interconnected "universes", crossovers, and nods to other comics*. On L&C, I don't think any other other DC heroes ever showed up; there was one indirect reference to Batman, but that was it.

If they made this show today, I bet it'd be jam packed by season two with various superhero appearances.

 

*(Gotham seems to be the only show staying within its own world.)

[BkWurm1]

I don't think any other other DC heroes ever showed up; there was one indirect reference to Batman, but that was it.

 

Does Ultra Woman count?  ;p

[pootlus]

Does Ultra Woman count?  ;p

 

Vixen - or her name - shows up in late S4 for a very brief (and not very good) appearance. Needless to say she bears no resemblance to her comic book namesake.

[fromtheashes]

I've been rewatching my DVDs the past few weeks. I'm just about to start the clone arc. Really not a fan of that arc which of course is followed by the amnesia arc and that is then followed by the New Krypton arc. All three have some merit but its just so much all together like that. I never saw this show in real time just in reruns and then later DVD so if it drives me nuts I can't even fathom how frustrating it must have been to see it play out week after week. That said though its still one of my favorite shows of all time and I love the take on Clark/Superman. 

[BkWurm1]

I watched it live back in the day. I thank you for your pity.

At least now we now it gets better. I was seriously worried that they'd stretch out the New Kyptonians thing a lot longer. And I kind of enjoy the frog eating clone now on a silly level. The amnesiac thing on the heels of the frog thing made me want to spork my eyes out. Sooooo frustrating and again, I remember wondering if they were going to reset the whole show. Not fun.

[pootlus]

The frog-eating clone thing is extra sad when you realise that poor old Clark had to wait another 6-8 months to lose his virginity.

 

The best part about the amnesiac sequence is that it ends with Lois punching that creepy Doctor.

 

The only good thing about the NK arc (apart from seeing Teri's then husband) is the 150% emotion Dean and Teri managed to pack into the scenes where L&C thought they'd be split up forever.  Otherwise, it's a bit ho-hum, although I can imagine fans waiting to see if the show had been renewed for a 4th season would have been borderline suicidal.

 

Martha basically running the Resistance though was good.  Because you know she would totally have done that.  The best incarnation of the Kents by a country mile - you could put them in an absurd situation like Kryptonians invading the planet and their characters still stayed true.

[bettername2come]

Rewatching season 3 for the first time in years. I had forgotten how much I loved the engaged Lois and Clark interaction pre-clone. Once they got together, they were together and they couldn't keep their hands off each other. It made my nine-year-old shipper heart very happy and still does. And they had a nice balance of work, romance and superhero shenanigans.

[BkWurm1]

I miss the unapologetic romance. Nothing seemed too much. All the avowals of love and how each other transformed each other's lives, nothing seemed too schmaltzy or saccharine. I gobbled it up and still do on every rewatch. The had such great chemistry.

[legaleagle53]

Martha basically running the Resistance though was good.  Because you know she would totally have done that.  The best incarnation of the Kents by a country mile - you could put them in an absurd situation like Kryptonians invading the planet and their characters still stayed true.

 

And K Callan (the actress who played Martha) knew it, too.  I remember her talking about her audition for the part in an interview one time.  She said that pretty much every other actress who was there reading for the part showed up in what they thought would have been Martha's go-to outfit:  a dress and an apron, as if Martha had been busy baking cookies all afternoon.  What did Ms. Callan wear to the audition?  She took a decidedly different approach -- she wore coveralls and a tool belt, as if Martha had been busy fixing the plumbing.  According to her, the casting director took one look at her and decided then and there that she was exactly the right actress to play Martha because she had caught the vision of who Martha was and what she was intended to be: a strong, independent woman who wouldn't put up with anyone's guff, not even a super-strong son's, or, as Jonathan once described her in the comic books, "a force of Nature in a dress."

Edited August 22, 2015 by legaleagle53

[Trini]

Obviously, they needed someone else who knew about Clark's powers for him to to confide in, but making his parents more rounded (than previous incarnations) characters, and a real part of his life was another thing the show did right.

[BkWurm1]

It's impossible not to compare the Smallville Kent's to the L&C Kents and even with them dealing with a age difference with their Clark, I think the L&C Kent's had more faith in Clark.  Less fear.   Maybe they were just more optimistic people.  I think they were just as concerned about Clark, but I always got the impression that while SVClark talked to his parents and shared his big worries when he needed help and loved them of course, L&CClark had more than just a parent child relationship with them.  They were friends that he enjoyed confiding in.   

 

It's probably really not fair since we never saw the growing pains but I can imagine L&CClark sitting his parents down and explaining that he wanted to go walk the world and find himself and rather then them freak out which is how I would expect the SVKent's to initially react, they would hold back their worries and concerns until he fully explained what he wanted and needed.  I just always got a better communication vibe between them.  Again not entirely fair since L&C Clark didn't have to fight the meteor freaks in high school, lol.  Still, I don't think the L&C Clark was ever as emo as SVClark. 

 

That's my very long way of saying, yeah, I agree, Lois & Clark have the best version of the Kents I've ever experienced. 

[kirkola]

And K Callan (the actress who played Martha) knew it, too.  I remember her talking about her audition for the part in an interview one time.  She said that pretty much every other actress who was there reading for the part showed up in what they thought would have been Martha's go-to outfit:  a dress and an apron, as if Martha had been busy baking cookies all afternoon.  What did Ms. Callan wear to the audition?  She took a decidedly different approach -- she wore coveralls and a tool belt, as if Martha had been busy fixing the plumbing.  According to her, the casting director took one look at her and decided then and there that she was exactly the right actress to play Martha because she had caught the vision of who Martha was and what she was intended to be: a strong, independent woman who wouldn't put up with anyone's guff, not even a super-strong son's, or, as Jonathan once described her in the comic books, "a force of Nature in a dress."

 

Yes!  When Martha threatens to put Clark over her knee and spank him (Seasons Greedings, s2.ep09) you really believe that this Martha not only would do it, but that she could do it. 

[DisneyBoy]

Can I just say I loved the NK arc and wished it had continued for another few episodes? The set-up was brilliant and I wanted to see more of that and less of Drew Carey Show Mimi as a condo ghost. The regular antagonists weren't that interesting. Kryptonians were scary and cool and awesome!

And the black and blue suit was crazy cool on Dean. Loved Justine Bateman as Zara too.

You were right on the money about Dean and Teri's 150% commitment to that separation.

Honestly its one of the best things the series ever did outside season one.