S04.E10: Heaven And Hell

[DittyDotDot]

Anna grapples with her true nature, while Sam, Dean and Ruby fend off both demons and angels to keep her safe.

 

Ironically, all the things that worked for me in the previous episode don't gel well for me here, plus there was more to dislike. Mostly, I'm annoyed that the previous episode was over-explaining what we already knew about Sam and this episode was an under-explanation of stuff they were holding back about Dean--but at least they balanced the nooky, right? Sigh. S4 is so frustrating sometimes for me. The things I needed and wanted to know were never shown, but the things I already knew and could care less about were continually bashed over my head. This episode just feels like they had this idea of having a big battle between angels and demons, but didn't really have a story to carry it throughout the whole episode. In fact, I think if they had omitted the flashbacks from the previous episode and removed the grace tree nonsense and sex scene from this episode they could have easily had one really good, tight episode rather than trying to stretch it into two.

 

Also, what worked for Anna in the previous episode makes her not work for me here--Julie McNiven doesn't carry the gravitas that I think she should once she remembers she's an angel--and I find the lack of chemistry between Julie and Jensen to be hard to roll with the supposed attraction between Dean and Anna. It's weird, I usually think of Jensen as having chemistry with anyone--probably would have chemistry with a carrot--but this is one of the rare instances that I think it feels forced. Actually, I think that Jensen has more on-screen chemistry with Genevieve and Jared seems to have more on-screen chemistry with Julie at times, but I digress. And again, the sex scene was awkward and not all that sexy, so I could really care less about it.

 

The angels make absolutely no sense to me--hindsight being 20/20 they of course do, but whatever--and the idea of a grace tree still seems nonsensical to me all these years later. But, that's just plot nonsense that I can easily ignore when there's something else that engages me and there really wasn't. I think this was the episode I realized they had no real plan for the angels and were making it up as they went along. When the angels would be useful they would use them and when they weren't they'd ignore them. Seems like a pattern they've continued with, too.

 

What the fuck was the point of Alistair speaking like the Godfather all the sudden? And, what the fuck was the point of Ruby being strapped naked to that table to be tortured? Which I now need an aside of anyway. Why would physical pain to a host body really be something that would work as torture for a demon anyway? This is one of the many reasons I find the way they like to use torture to shock people and seem edgy annoying. If they really wanted to say something about torture they should stop trying to make it about the physical and bring it to the psychological, but I'm digressing again.

 

Alright, enough poo-pooing, I'm going to end with the good. The plan to have the angels and demons duke it out was a good one. That scene with Dean and Uriel is masterful. And, I love a lot of what Jensen does throughout this episode. The way he plays up Dean's bravado, but sowing in the signs of doubt very subtle is a thing of beauty, especially the way he's trying to hold it together in light of the possibility of being tossed back in Hell. And even though I never bought the 30-years-tortured-turned-10-year-torturer, Jensen commits and it becomes a poignant moment none-the-less. I especially appreciate how they framed that scene with Sam and the Impala to Dean's back. Very effective.

 

I think that should do it...sorry for my long rambling ramblings here.

[catrox14]

I really do like so much of this episode. I thought Julie and Jensen had chemistry to boot. It was just a different level of chemistry because I think Dean was flummoxed by the idea that he would find an angel attractive (Yes yes I know there is Cas but Dean doesn't realize he's attracted to Cas...:)

 

I think it was good because Anna was a virgin and it played like that to me, a more caring, more tender kind of love scene. 

 

But I still found it realllly hot when Dean was helping her take her pants off.  Holy hell. If that man looked at me that way, my pants would just fall right off all by themselves. whoooo boy ...seriously. That was ...dayum. 

 

I loved Dean's scene at the end with him crying but I think I like the scene with Anna more. I love the scene with her and Dean when she tells him she knows what happened. That was just such great work from Jensen to show just how messed up and difficult it was for Dean to talk about his Hell experience.  We needed more of that throughout the season!

Edited September 16, 2014 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

I think it was good because Anna was a virgin and it played like that to me, a more caring, more tender kind of love scene.

 

Was she a virgin? I thought she wasn't supposed to be a virgin...her line about sex being one of the great things about humanity made me think she was supposed to be experienced. Maybe I misunderstood.

 

That's part of the disconnect for me with Anna in this episode, I think they wanted her to be a big and powerful angel and an experienced human--more of an equal to Dean--but she comes across as too innocent and naive to be a real match for Dean in this situation. The scene is supposed to be about them having their last horrah before she gets her grace back and goes back to being an unfeeling dick angel and before Dean gets killed in the crossfire and/or gets tossed back in Hell; but it comes off as two teenagers having their first experience in the back of daddy's car, to me.

Edited September 16, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

And I come to part 2, and as I remembered I didn't like it nearly as well as the first part, and I can point to exactly where it fell apart for me.

 

It started out well enough, riding my anticipation from the first part. The fight between Castiel and Uriel and Dean, Sam, and Ruby was good. Poor Sam. Nope: puppy dog eyes and pleading with Castiel wasn't going to work - guess you learned your lesson with that one, huh. And as usual arrogance got in the bad guy's way, since Uriel "relishing the moment" and beating on Dean meant that he got zapped before he could really do anything. Anna's blood spell was interesting and properly mysterious, and the decision to get Pamela's help was a sound one. Aaaand that's where most of the good ended for me. As soon as we got to the grace tree stuff, the episode fell apart for me.

 

I didn't like the torture scene - though to answer one of your questions @DittyDotDot, Alastair was using the demon knife, so that might explain some of the reason it hurt Ruby so much. I can also see why the demon would feel something from the host, or for me, it wouldn't make sense for them to even take a host if they couldn't use that host to feel stuff. Ruby enjoying sex and french fries wouldn't make sense otherwise. But I digress. The torture was gratuitous and unnecessary, in my opinion. And unbelievable. There is no way I am going to believe that all of Alastair's slicing with all of the blood was going to result in the one spot stomach wound that we saw later. If you're going to get gross and graphic, don't expect me to forget it later just because the plot now says that Ruby has to bring Alastair somewhere. I'm gonna roll my eyes in disbelief.

 

And then there was this...

Was she a virgin? I thought she wasn't supposed to be a virgin...her line about sex being one of the great things about humanity made me think she was supposed to be experienced. Maybe I misunderstood.

 

That's part of the disconnect for me with Anna in this episode, I think they wanted her to be a big and powerful angel and an experienced human--more of an equal to Dean--but she comes across as too innocent and naive to be a real match for Dean in this situation. The scene is supposed to be about them having their last horrah before she gets her grace back and goes back to being an unfeeling dick angel and before Dean gets killed in the crossfire and/or gets tossed back in Hell; but it comes off as two teenagers having their first experience in the back of daddy's car, to me.

 

I agree. I found the sex scene somewhat misplaced. It seemed all touching and as you say starry-eyed. I can see why Dean and Anna would have a connection, but as you say this is supposed to be a last hurrah and it just seemed, I don't know, too sweet and tame for me for that. No immediacy or desperation. Like having tomato soup and grill cheese for a last meal: sure it's good, but I think I'd rather go with something a little more exciting. If we're gonna have steam on the windows, I wanna be convinced of how it got there, and this scene didn't do that for me.

 

What I did like - it might be just me, but I adored Sam moving forward to try to protect both Dean and Anna. He was in all systems ready for attack there, and it was nice to see protective Sam. Sam's plan was a good one - he doesn't always get those, so yay for that - and I agree about Jensen's playing of Dean's dread/trepidation at being thrown back into the pit scene with Uriel.

 

I, however, hated the 40 year reveal, and even though Jensen did a great job with what he was given, I actually would like to have seen a little more - something - to make it at least a smidgen more believable. In other words, that maybe in addition to the guilt - which even by this time in the series was something we'd seen a lot of for Dean already - I don't know, I maybe would've liked a little instability maybe? Maybe have Dean's sanity cracking some now that he's let this actually be admitted. I don't know - just something besides guilt. Have Dean actually struggling with having control over anger, rage, fear, etc. this was an opportunity to throw something besides guilt into the mix and make Dean's hell-reactions a little more complex, and I thought that this was a wasted opportunity.

 

And I guess that was my problem overall with this episode. The first half opened the door to all of these potential mysteries, but the answers just seemed not only a bit unbelievable, but too simple, and I wanted more complexity.

Edited September 16, 2014 by AwesomO4000

[DittyDotDot]

I, however, hated the 40 year reveal, and even though Jensen did a great job with what he was given, I actually would like to have seen a little more - something - to make it at least a smidgen more believable. In other words, that maybe in addition to the guilt - which even by this time in the series was something we'd seen a lot of for Dean already - I don't know, I maybe would've liked a little instability maybe? Maybe have Dean's sanity cracking some now that he's let this actually be admitted. I don't know - just something besides guilt. Have Dean actually struggling with having control over anger, rage, fear, etc. this was an opportunity to throw something besides guilt into the mix and make Dean's hell-reactions a little more complex, and I thought that this was a wasted opportunity.

 

This is exactly why I never bought the 30-years-tortured-turned-10-year torturer, it came out of left field and didn't line up with what I had seen of Dean after he got out of Hell. Yes, I know he drank more, but I just can't imagine being able to get out of bed everyday after that sort of trauma--with or without a fifth of whiskey. It always makes me wonder if Jensen knew what was coming back in S4 or if they just revealed it to him when he got this script? I'm assuming they had this idea that Dean tortured in Hell, but hadn't worked out the 40 years thing until the development of this episode. It's really a shame, it could have been a very juicy storyline, but as it was, I think of it as a failure.

 

ETA:

I didn't like the torture scene - though to answer one of your questions @DittyDotDot, Alastair was using the demon knife, so that might explain some of the reason it hurt Ruby so much. I can also see why the demon would feel something from the host, or for me, it wouldn't make sense for them to even take a host if they couldn't use that host to feel stuff. Ruby enjoying sex and french fries wouldn't make sense otherwise. But I digress.

 

Oh, I get how they would be able to "feel" it, just saying that a demon is suppose to be pure evil, would physical pain really be something that would work on them? Personally, I don't don't think so. After centuries of being tortured and twisted in Hell, a little bit of stabbing of a body that's not even theirs in the first place seems unlikely to me. For me, torture is more than the physical though, it's entirely psychological, IMO, and you can apply physical means to humans in an attempt to psychologically mess with them, but demons...I don't know about that? Probably just me though.

Edited September 16, 2014 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

Well, had they spent any time with Dean being a basket case after Hell they couldn't have spent time with Sam becoming a basket case with becoming addicted to demon blood. That's just lousy time management and poor story plotting and lots of wasted effort.  Either that or they couldn't figure out to portray it with any decent attention so that ignored it. 

[supposebly]

I have probably made my feelings about the torture and breaking after 30 years thing quite clear a few times, so I try not to harp on it anymore.

 

However, in addition, they never quite resolved what they actually meant with "break". They way Ruby explained it in S3 was "breaking" means that's when you become a demon and lose your humanity. So, either Castiel didn't just grip him tight but also healed him from his demonness. Which in light of recent events, I don't even want to think about.

 

The first seal was supposed to be the righteous human that breaks the seal and then that person should be a vessel?

 

The way they played it was that he "broke" in that he wouldn't withstand the torture anymore and accepted what Alistair offered. Leaving aside the fact that I will never accept that that would take 30 years, that doesn't line up with what they said in S3. He still kept his humanity.

 

The way the angels treated it was, oh well, he's been a bad boy in hell, you should ask him about it.

Oh well, I did harp a little. ;-)

Edited September 17, 2014 by supposebly

[DittyDotDot]

I have probably made my feelings about the torture and breaking after 30 years thing quite clear a few times, so I try not to harp on it anymore.

 

...

 

Oh well, I did harp a little. ;-)

 

No worries supposebly, I tried not to harp also and look at that rambling mess I posted. I think there's not way to talk about this episode without harping on it. 

[catrox14]

Ruby from Malleus Maleficarum: "Yes, the same thing will happen to you. It might take centuries, but sooner or later Hell will burn away your humanity. Every Hell-bound soul, every one, turns into something else. Turns you into us. So yeah. Yeah, you can count on it. "

 

 

So I think Dean whilst badly damaged and on the path to demonity, he was not there yet. That's why I could buy his ability to survive it for 30 years before breaking and meting out his own terror on others.  s6 spoilers. 

What bugs me more is why didn't Sam become a demon since he spent 100 years in the cage with Lucifer and Michael according to Cas. Shouldn't his being re-ensouled have made him a demon instead of cracking up like he did once the wall broke?

Edited September 17, 2014 by catrox14

[AwesomO4000]

@catrox14: I tried to continue the discussion here, but I couldn't get the spoiler tags to work properly on my answer this time. I moved my response to the "all episodes" thread.

Edited September 17, 2014 by AwesomO4000

[supposebly]

Well, it seems that for Dean, "breaking" in Hell and enjoying torturing for 10 years doesn't mean he won't feel bad about it afterwards.

 

So, breaking doesn't really mean what I think it means. Humanity intact, but enjoying torturing for 10 years anyway.

 

Considering he was supposed to be a vessel for an archangel afterwards, his "breaking" doesn't really count anyway.

 

The angels took quite a chance to leave him there for another 10 years.

He could have completely broken by then and then Michael would have a demon vessel.

 

This show. *shakes head

Edited September 17, 2014 by supposebly

[GirlyGeek]

You all have very insightful thoughts and if I hadn't finished this two parter so late at night, I'd jump right in. For now all I have is...

Ruby is a demon... How can she eat French fries? They have lots of salt on them. Lol ;)

It's the question of the ages, of course. I'll contribute more tomorrow, lol.

But actually, a quick thought- I think they over reached with the whole 40 years thing. I mean, yes, Jensen sold the hell out of it and I tear up every single time at that scene.

But, we're supposed to believe a human man went to hell, was tortured by demons for 30 years, then he took up the torturing for another 10 years, then this human man was raised from hell back to earth, And he remembers *everything*...

It's just too much. And it's completely unbelievable. He remembers it all and that much times passed and all he's doing is drinking a bit much and having some vague nightmares? No, no, no, no. It would have played better, if they still went with the 40 years business (if they must) and have it so Dean only remembered flashes. You know, enough that he knows what happened, in a general sense, but not every moment. Trust me, it would be enough for the story to go on the same. Imo

Edited February 24, 2015 by GirlyGeek

[DittyDotDot]

Ruby is a demon... How can she eat French fries? They have lots of salt on them. Lol ;)

 

HA! I don't know why I've never thought of this before. That's a great observation!

Oh wait, does that mean I have demonic tendencies since I don't like salty things....hmmm, could explain a lot. And, since I already figured I'm going to Hell, should make it easier, right? ;)

[Dobian]

Tense episode throughout.  Uriel is such an asshole, I hope they kill him in the end.  It's interesting how there is this gray area between angels and demons on this show.  You have one demon who has more morals than one of the angels.  Dean's porn fantasies are always amusing, an angel and a demon in the back of a car, heh.

 

Seriously though, I had the same thoughts when Dean revealed he had been in Hell for forty years.  If you are in Hell for that long being tortured and torturing others, that's a whole lifetime doing that, more years than Dean has even lived on Earth.  And you would not come back as yourself, you would be something else.  Alastair succeeded in stripping Dean of his humanity.  Dean shouldn't even resemble his old self after being down there for forty years.  His memories of this world would be vague and fuzzy, his personality would either be downright evil and twisted or tortured and broken.  He wouldn't be able to interact with Sam at all like the old Dean.  He'd be walking around totally shell-shocked for a good while, and even after wouldn't be the same person.  Actually, he would very likely still be the monster he had been turned into in Hell, might even have hunted Sam down to hand him over to Alastair.

 

I don't think the writers should have gone down this path, the post-Hell Dean just doesn't sync with the fact that he was down there for forty whole years.  You could make the same argument with Ruby.  She was actually down there for tens of thousands of years just doing the math.  How she would ever even remotely remember what it's like to be human is a mystery.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Dobian

[GirlyGeek]

On March 22, 2016 at 1:08 PM, Dobian said:

Seriously though, I had the same thoughts when Dean revealed he had been in Hell for forty years.  If you are in Hell for that long being tortured and torturing others, that's a whole lifetime doing that, more years than Dean has even lived on Earth.  And you would not come back as yourself, you would be something else.  Alastair succeeded in stripping Dean of his humanity.  Dean shouldn't even resemble his old self after being down there for forty years.  His memories of this world would be vague and fuzzy, his personality would either be downright evil and twisted or tortured and broken.  He wouldn't be able to interact with Sam at all like the old Dean.  He'd be walking around totally shell-shocked for a good while, and even after wouldn't be the same person.  Actually, he would very likely still be the monster he had been turned into in Hell, might even have hunted Sam down to hand him over to Alastair.

Completely agree.  Just finished this episode and, again, the end scene is 100% pure acting gold from Jensen. BUT this is a case where the writers should have known that less is more.  Dean would be a dribbling gooey mess or a complete monster after all that time. He would not be just Alcoholic!Dean.

they overreached and made an already unbelievable story completely ridiculous.  It does taint the storyline for me some, too. Trust us, saying he went to hell and was tortured for 4 months would have been enough imagery and horrific in its own right. All the extra horrible stuff isn't necessary.

but my goodness if Jensen doesn't act the hell out of it. He looked tore up.

In a story where there is Angels and demons and grace in a tree, we the audience are already suspending our disbelief.  These are human men against the supernatural and its already tough to stomach that they're still alive against all this superhuman immortal power.  Human men wouldn't survive hell memories and still be walking around.

[Hanahope]

The whole bit with showing how some demons aren't so bad (Ruby) and some angles are awful (Uriel) reminds me a book series I read as a teen where the "hero" you think you're reading about is in fact the embodiment of chaos, but he seems like a good guy compared to the law and order guy who is so rigid in law and justice that one little mistake by a human damns them.  Basically, the moral is blind allegiance to anything isn't good (which applied to most religions, imo, is spot on).

Anyway, pretty stupid of Uriel to be carrying around Anne's grace so she could grab it and become an angel again.

So now that Dean's had this fling with an angel, maybe he'll be willing to talk with Ruby.  At least she might be someone he could commiserate with about one's time in hell.

[bettername2come]

I don't have an issue with Dean's time in hell. Possibly because I'm just so used to Supernatural shoving things to the sides and there's obviously a lot of suspension of disbelief on the series. But I just don't think that even if he was torturing for ten years, I don't think he enjoyed it for that long and once he was back topside, I could see him wanting go back to his human life and act like everything was normal. Jensen is so talented. I love the reveal at the end. The guilt, the pain, the endless streams of tears

Anna/Dean is probably my least favorite Winchester sex scene, but I'll take any excuse to get a rare shirtless Jensen scene. Lovely back.

Uriel is a dick. But his "angel food cake" was a good line. 

Misha looks so pretty when he gets hit by the angelic light. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I guess I'm so used to reading on here that "Dean broke after 40 years" I didn't even realize/remember that most folks were getting it wrong.  (This is not a Sam vs. Dean thing or a Dean vs. John thing, this is me being a stickler for precision thing.)  I certainly didn't remember the revelation that he actually tortured other souls for 10 years in Hell.  I wonder why the angels left him down there so long after he initially broke?  Was it that it took that long to get the proper offensive together or was there another, more nefarious, reason?

I remember actually snickering the first time I watched the Anna/Dean scene in the car - because of course an angel would be wearing a snow white bra.  //snark.  Wonder if it was a Dream Angels?  Lol.  

I didn't ping it the first time I watched the ep, but once again, after being on the forum, the contrast of Dean getting an angel while Sam gets a demon is stark.

I really don't understand why Sam was talking to Ruby about his research into the comets, unless that was just a way to have her in the episode/scene more.  It just seemed weird that he'd be gushing at her like that.  It's like he forgot for a moment who and what she was and he was treating her as a regular/real woman.  Then it was kind of an awkward segue into the rest of the conversation, imo.   It's not just Sam; I didn't like the way Dean helped her up after the angel/demon battle either.  I guess I just don't like Ruby.  :)  And I don't remember liking her the first time through either, so I'm being consistent.  Demon and all, you know.

Is this the first time we see the sexist demon torture rack? (Girls were always naked, guys not so much)

And once again - I thought Anna was way more interesting when we didn't know she was an angel and didn't know how she was hearing angel radio and could see demon's real faces, etc.  I kind of wish the show had kept that mystery about her.  Not everything needs to be explicitly explained.  (It's Supernatural, you know.)  That being said, I don't think they thought out the 'cutting out her angel grace and falling to earth to be born as a baby' very well.  If she was born as a human, wouldn't she have had a human soul?  If she had a human soul, should she have been able to take back her grace?  Wouldn't that make her a nephilim of sorts?  I liked the scene of her grace flashing the blinding light though.  

And I'll end on a couple more nice thoughts. I liked seeing Pamela again - and her interaction with Sam.  Nice to see some genuine affection for her from him, versus his interactions with Ruby.  Nice also, that the show took the time to show Dean going to get her and taking her home, instead her just disappearing off the screen.  I liked the couple lines about Bobby being in the Dominican Republic too.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I guess I'm so used to reading on here that "Dean broke after 40 years" I didn't even realize/remember that most folks were getting it wrong.  (This is not a Sam vs. Dean thing or a Dean vs. John thing, this is me being a stickler for precision thing.)  I certainly didn't remember the revelation that he actually tortured other souls for 10 years in Hell.  I wonder why the angels left him down there so long after he initially broke?  Was it that it took that long to get the proper offensive together or was there another, more nefarious, reason?

Taking my reply to the All season thread

[Iju]

On 6/28/2017 at 9:16 AM, Runswithscissors said:

 

 I thought Anna was way more interesting when we didn't know she was an angel and didn't know how she was hearing angel radio and could see demon's real faces, etc.  I kind of wish the show had kept that mystery about her.  Not everything needs to be explicitly explained.  (It's Supernatural, you know.)  That being said, I don't think they thought out the 'cutting out her angel grace and falling to earth to be born as a baby' very well.  If she was born as a human, wouldn't she have had a human soul?  If she had a human soul, should she have been able to take back her grace?  Wouldn't that make her a nephilim of sorts?  I liked the scene of her grace flashing the blinding light though.  

 

agreed, i was actually pretty stoked that she would be a reoccurring character to help them along the way, but now it make sense why she can listen to angels and all that and it just didn't do it for me anymore after the reveal.

 

On 6/28/2017 at 9:16 AM, Runswithscissors said:

I really don't understand why Sam was talking to Ruby about his research into the comets, unless that was just a way to have her in the episode/scene more.  It just seemed weird that he'd be gushing at her like that.  It's like he forgot for a moment who and what she was and he was treating her as a regular/real woman.  Then it was kind of an awkward segue into the rest of the conversation, imo.   It's not just Sam; I didn't like the way Dean helped her up after the angel/demon battle either.  I guess I just don't like Ruby.  :)  And I don't remember liking her the first time through either, so I'm being consistent.  Demon and all, you know.

 

this as well, it was pretty useless. sam isn't falling for her i hope, that would be quite alarming! D: i don't like her either, certainly not to be any romantic interest for either boys.

--------------------

yet another sex scene i had to skip, siggggggggh. although i must admit i didn't think it would lead there, i thought it would just a be a kiss and that was it. i guess i am in agreement with most people here, i didn't think there would be more than a kiss because i saw 0 chemistry. so in a way just like sam's scene dean's would have been awkward as well. i'm so frustrated right now i have the nerve to brake my own rules and go back and look at the deanxcassie scene since it was praised so much but i can't...me and my stupid morals. ugh.

when dean thanked/didn't thank ruby i wanted to badly for him to punch her first, for vengeance. i know i would. i would punch her first for manipulating my brother into not only sexing a demon but a dead body, and then i would have thanked her for saving his life.

my mother just thought it was so amazing and admirable for dean to give up anna for sam. that's what really open her eyes and proved to her how much he loves him. i can't say that i blame her.

she wasn't so hot on the "hell is bad, so is earth and so is heaven. basically we're all screwed" deal either, but i mean it's okay for me to swallow. SPN can have their version/interpretation of earth, heaven and hell. if it was written better i would have liked it though, but i didn't. it was handled sloppily. i was happy to see this arc end and i hope nothing like this happens again, at least not written so boringly. i guess that's why i barely cared about the episode in the last thread and talked about the performances instead, lol.

while i think it's cool that sam was graced with demon's blood and clearly holds some merit with demons (as proven in the previous episode) and dean was chosen by the angels/God as a reference to the phrase "two sides of the same coin", next to nothing has been revealed on sam after episode 3 and 6 on The Demon (i hope to God that the plotline of that isn't dropped), and absolutely nothing on dean and his being chosen. granted we're not even half done with the season yet but it just seemed like the plot was rolling fast and nicely and was suddenly stopped by this seemingly needless angel arc.

i had to force myself to look at the screen. the camera wasn't giving up on dean's retelling of hell, heartless machine! but yeah, actually jensen was so convincing i actually thought he was crying...i guess that what you call good acting? lol

by that performance alone i forgive almost all the episode. almost. i'm pissed off that the writers made sam do nothing. i know it must have been awkward and hard for him for him to see dean to break down especially like this but he could have at least cried with him, gave him a sturdy squeeze on the back, at most a hug? dean is in pieces here man.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Iju

[The Companion]

I have been waiting for the big reveal. It has been set up all season and there have been spoiler tags making it clear something was coming. Did Dean make a deal? Find a way to fit in as he does so well? So, here it is and I am disappointed. As so many said above, Dean has not been written nearly broken enough to make 30 years of perpetual torture and 40 years of extreme trauma plausible. There hasn't been enough. He is largely unchanged. I think this was a miss. Jensen sold the fudge out of it, though.

Commenting on the actual story this episode and the prior one: I thought the angels were not so different from the demons before and I think that holds up. These are warring factions and humans are expendable. Absolute obedience is required. 

I liked the concept of a fallen angel. I liked Anna. I didn't buy the sex, and nobody has ever had non awkward sex in a backseat. Lol. But I loved the question of what to do when you have these two competing forces, both of whom want Anna. 

The actual battle was a little underwhelming. Would angels and demons really fight in human form?

I sound really negative, but I did like this overall. I like the addition of the angels and the fallen angel concept. 

One thing that I am still trying to put together: so, demons are established to be humans. With the information Dean gave us, does that mean that they basically follow the same path? Tortured to torturer to basically working in the hierarchy?

[Casseiopeia]

Did anyone else notice this? Or am I just late to the party...

I never noticed the wings before.