S01.E05 (BBC/D+): Dot and Bubble

[RobertDeSneero]

On 6/3/2024 at 9:59 AM, tennisgurl said:

I left the episode with a lot of questions, which is how I have been leaving a lot of episodes this season. Where did the dots find these slug monsters or how did they make them? How did they destroy homeworld? I assumed that these pastel colored idiots were just the privileged young people and that's why they all wore their social media bubbles, but was everyone back home also a total idiot who were easy to munch on? Why eat them alphabetically? I don't need everything spelled out to me, but it feels like every episode leaves so much unexplained this season and the Doctor is not that interested in getting answers. It could be because RTD is going for a more magical vibe, but it feels strange. 

I just don't think the answers are that important.  The dots either found the creatures or made them, it doesn't matter which.  From a storytelling perspective, the people needed to be eaten in a non-random order so that the Doctor could figure out that there was a purpose behind their deaths and name is just as good as any other field in a database and easier to show the audience.  The show doesn't need to over-explain every detail.

[tv-talk]

12 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

The show doesn't need to over-explain every detail.

Agree with that 100%...BUT, when too much is left for the viewer to decide it feels like weaker storytelling to me.  It's a lot easier to come up with plots and scenes when none of it has to make any sense. I think in a more typical Who episode, the sentience of the dots would have been shown more. They were basically playing with the humans as they orchestrated their convoluted deaths by being walked into slugs in alphabetical order. Then when one human's name turned out to have been missed, the enraged dot goes apeshit until it manages to pierce his skull. So really the dots could have killed all the human instantly but just choose not to.

In a more standard Who, the Doctor would have had a parlay with the Dots and argued with them, explained some kind of morality, found a way to defeat them. I could see the Dot's malevolent nature having been learned from absorbing all the mean and vacuous things the humans were saying on social media. Having them be a reflection of society and the ills of a life online.

This Doctor however instead just weeps like a baby because the racist bigots wouldnt hop in his TARDIS.

Cant say I'm a big fan, yet. 

[tennisgurl]

I've had that "Teeny Weeenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" song stuck in my head since I watched this over the weekend and its officially driving me nuts. 

RTD has a lot to answer for...

[DoctorAtomic]

3 hours ago, tv-talk said:

BUT, when too much is left for the viewer to decide it feels like weaker storytelling to me.

I certainly criticize television for being way overwritten, but you still need an internal structure to a show. I said before, if you can just do anything without structure, then it's just 'a wizard did it'. Knowing where the slugs came from, ok, I don't think I need to know that, but the example of perhaps the dots have sentience, that gives you motivation and narrative direction. Or maybe the Dots were sick of the racism too and just wanted to get rid of them, but the Doctor still insists they're worth saving to make their own choices. That's an entirely different episode but very much Doctor Who.

The racism wasn't hitting us over the head, but it's there, we see it, you can get the gist of how this social sickness may have developed. 

Killing off Ricky didn't come out of nowhere. It was a chilling scene, but there was structure to the payoff. 

tbh, maybe 7 minutes more of show could solve the problem. Since we're on streaming, I'm not sure we need to be bound by time constraints. 

Also like I said before, there's enough to the show I'm enjoying that I'm still talking about it. I'd just not watch otherwise. Also, I think two Doctor Lite episodes back to back is coloring my opinion. This is a completely different episode if the Doctor is more involved. 

[giovannif7]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I've had that "Teeny Weeenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" song stuck in my head since I watched this over the weekend and its officially driving me nuts. 

RTD has a lot to answer for...

Have compassion for us boomers, who have had that nasty little ear worm crawling around (and randomly resurfacing) in our brains since it was a #1 hit in 1960. It’s astounding that any of us are capable of rational thought. 🙉

[Megras]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I've had that "Teeny Weeenie Yellow Polka Dot Bikini" song stuck in my head since I watched this over the weekend and its officially driving me nuts. 

 

Me too until I saw Ratatata by Electric Callboy & babymetal. and now that won't go away.

[LaDuchesse]

I was bored. I’ve seen reviews talk about how the Doctor learned a lesson about saving people who aren’t worth saving (and presumably how that is noble), but I wasn’t under the impression at the end that the Doctor realized she was a terrible person who maybe didn’t deserve saving. Honest question since I wasn’t 100% paying attention (see bored above), did I miss something?

[DanaK]

6 hours ago, LaDuchesse said:

I was bored. I’ve seen reviews talk about how the Doctor learned a lesson about saving people who aren’t worth saving (and presumably how that is noble), but I wasn’t under the impression at the end that the Doctor realized she was a terrible person who maybe didn’t deserve saving. Honest question since I wasn’t 100% paying attention (see bored above), did I miss something?

They were a racist bunch who didn’t want to travel with him because he was Black. They didn’t want to be saved by him so he was helpless to do anything

[Kite]

On 6/4/2024 at 1:20 PM, WAnglais1 said:

The dadgum show is called Doctor Who, not "What Rejected Black Mirror Story Is On This Week." 

Oh please, Doctor Who has been doing "Black Mirror" long before Black Mirror, which owes a big debt to it. That's what sci fi does. Doctor Who in its long time has done plenty of dystopian cautionary tales using modern technology and foibles and prejudices taken to its extreme. Eg homocidal satnavs. It just tends to add more layers of cheese than Black Mirror. 

I would like to give a signal boost to the TARBIS podcast, which is always great, but also for their super thoughtful and nuanced take on this episode from a Black perspective, which is not that common to find online in this fandom. They have some criticisms/reservations and interpretations I had never considered from my standpoint. Of course, they could see straight away where this episode was headed. 

Doctor Who is uniquely intensive to film because it is a bunch of genre shows rolled into one, with a different bunch of sets, actors, and other creatives each time. It is pretty slow and intensive. RTD famously nearly worked himself to death trying to produce 14 episodes a year at the start of the reboot in 2005 (one reason why his finales were so fever dream, they were hella rushed), and it started to get more and more spaced out as time went on with the showrunners. 9 episodes a year seems to be is what RTD reckons is reliably and sustainably possible. Including for the lead actor. I'm sure he would have preferred Ncuti be in this season more, but they decided to go with Ncuti over the actor they had lined up despite the initial availability problems because they thought he was so fantastic. 

Edited June 6 by Kite

[Kite]

On 6/5/2024 at 9:33 PM, tv-talk said:

This Doctor however instead just weeps like a baby because the racist bigots wouldnt hop in his TARDIS.

What sort of crying is deemed manly enough for you? 

He was crying because of the sanctity of life, and the enormous, universe filling empathy he has, and the waste of it all due to petty silly hatreds and lies. 

Have you ever looked at images of a warzone and felt the same? Do you need to believe only one side is right to believe they should not die? 

I dunno, I'm not religious at all but I have practised loving kindness meditation where it feels I could embrace the whole universe with love. That's what the Doctor feels most of the time. That's what keeps driving them on and makes them so brave, and not quite a real person, more a myth descended to earth that struggles sometimes with humanlike foibles. 

(By the way, Twelve/Capaldi is my very favourite Doctor in nearly half a century watching, and he's a grumpy rude bastard, so what I said doesn't mean sunshine and rainbows and kittens. Dude was enormously empathic. Just a very different way of channeling it.)

Edited June 6 by Kite

[DoctorAtomic]

11 hours ago, LaDuchesse said:

I wasn’t under the impression at the end that the Doctor realized she was a terrible person who maybe didn’t deserve saving.

That's a fair criticism because we never saw any internal dialogue with the Doctor and Ruby about that. 

I can easily buy that by the end the Doctor knew they were a bunch of racists but insisted in trying to help them anyway. I can also by that he didn't actually know and Ruby just kept her mouth shut about it.

In the last scene, when the Doctor is pleading with them to get on the TARDIS, I don't think there's any clear interpretation. 

I'm also fine with the ending of 'racists gonna be racist and they get what they deserve' but there's just a lot left on the table.

[tv-talk]

7 hours ago, Kite said:

What sort of crying is deemed manly enough for you? 

He was crying because of the sanctity of life, and the enormous, universe filling empathy he has, and the waste of it all due to petty silly hatreds and lies. 

Manly enough? I dont recall saying anything about manly.

You've been watching the Doctor for 50yrs- how many times have you seen the character cry? He's an ALIEN at the end the day and one who is a millennia (or many) old and has seen the destruction of billions upon billions of lives. Sarah Jane was actually put off by how easily he got over people dying at one point.

Now though, a small group of awful people wont get in TARDIS despite him begging them and he reacts as if all the Companions had died at the same time. I am not a fan. Of course the character changes with each regen but the constant waterworks is entirely outside who the Doctor has been for those 50yrs. So far in this season he's just an emo human with a time machine. I like my Doctor to be an alien who generally finds humans lovable, quaint, and a bit strange.

[Makai]

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

Now though, a small group of awful people wont get in TARDIS despite him begging them and he reacts as if all the Companions had died at the same time.

I didn’t think that he was really crying for that group of awful people but for what they represented and the realities of racism that suddenly smacked him in the face. 

1 hour ago, tv-talk said:

Of course the character changes with each regen but the constant waterworks is entirely outside who the Doctor has been for those 50yrs.

Constant waterworks? Have I not been paying close enough attention? I only remember a few tears. Ten was far more emo. 

[Kite]

10 hours ago, tv-talk said:

Manly enough? I dont recall saying anything about manly.

Super gendered language you're using there buddy. As if having seen the destruction of billions, you should necessarily be unemotional and stern, as opposed to full of grief and determination to do better. If you have an issue with the Doctor's compassion, it did start rather a long time ago, trying to save irredeemable characters and monsters. 

Why would you think aliens are unemotional? Daleks are born screaming. 

I get it if it doesn't work for you, but it's not inconsistent. 

[tv-talk]

1 hour ago, Kite said:

Super gendered language you're using there buddy.

Actually I didnt use any gendered language, in fact you did. Pretty sure I have been referring to the Doctor as he/she overall due to 14. And yes, having witnessed the things the Doctor has- no I dont think the character would be so torn asunder over some awful people deciding to go it alone. In fact there have been countless scenes throughout the years where the Doctor is quite hands/off in terms of relating to what is happening to people on a particular planet, And yes the Doctor has also been highly emotional and impassioned when trying to persuade groups to do what is morally right. The Doctor has always been fairly ardent if nothing else.

[jah1986]

I thought this was a good episode, didn't see any of the twists coming. I wanted more to happen to Lindy after she threw Ricky under the bus.

I did say, while watching this episode, this doctor cries a lot. I think it's been every episode, I could be wrong but it feels like a lot. I wonder if it's because he's been through therapy and did a lot of healing so now he's freer with other displays of emotion? I still love the actor and I like Ruby, wasn't sure about her initially, but I like her. Hopefully we get to see more of Ncuti in the role in the remaining episodes, and I wonder if we'll get to see him face off against some classic villains, that always seems to bring out the best in any version of the doctor.

[tv-talk]

3 hours ago, jah1986 said:

I wonder if it's because he's been through therapy and did a lot of healing so now he's freer with other displays of emotion?

Oh I missed that. When was the Doctor is therapy and with whom?

[jah1986]

42 minutes ago, tv-talk said:

Oh I missed that. When was the Doctor is therapy and with whom?

In the special with the bi-generation, 10/14 asked why he was so mellow or something to that effect and he said regenerations don't have in order, they are time lords and he had insinuated that he had had therapy and was much calmer. That's how I understood it.

[tv-talk]

2 hours ago, jah1986 said:

In the special with the bi-generation, 10/14 asked why he was so mellow or something to that effect and he said regenerations don't have in order, they are time lords and he had insinuated that he had had therapy and was much calmer. That's how I understood it.

Ah gotcha, thanks. For me as an oldhead I remember watching Teela and K9 leaving the Doctor in a moment you'd think he'd have been sad and emotional, then the TARDIS doors close and he pulls a new K9 out of box with a mischievous grin as the theme music cues.

That Doctor was a millenia old alien, this one is basically a human with a neat time machine. So far. I'm very interested to see where the character goes over the next few episodes as we're now thankfully past DrWho lite. 

[Meow Mix]

I really liked this episode.  I love the ones like this that go into a surreal world where you have to just not ask a lot of questions.  This goes back to Paradise Towers in the classic series and Gridlock in the new series.  Who knows how they got in these weird situations, but it's fascinating watching the Doctor and companion try to navigate the world they find themselves in.

I felt the racism angle was necessary and I liked that the viewer wasn't initially beat over the head with it.  Yes, everyone is white and privileged, but you don't notice that at first because they are really vapid and obnoxious.  You just get the idea that the bubble is like our social media on steroids with people complaining because they have to work for a couple of hours and shilling disposable crap to each other.  At first when the Doctor appears you might be tempted to think it's just cliquish behavior to keep unfriending him, but then as the microagressions pile up, it starts to come through as something uglier.

Ultimately, that's the point.  You're supposed to dislike these people.  Whoever said #teamlamppost was spot on.  But on some level, until Lindy coldly causes Ricky's death, you think that they are just young and dumb and will grow out of it once they are no longer on the dot.  But then at the end, you see the full ugliness of who they all are.  That they are too arrogant to realize that they are going to die without the dot and without the Doctor's help.  And most of us by that point are fine with that.

But then comes the Doctor who is never cruel or cowardly and is always kind.  And just like 10 with Davros he offers to save these irredeemable people.  The difference is that 10 understood why Davros wouldn't go with him in the end, but here the Doctor realizes that the only reason these people won't accept his help is because of the color of his skin.  Ruby is disgusted and walks away, but the Doctor has such an overwhelming reverence for life, that he grieves hard.  I know some didn't like that, but in this case his anger, frustration, and despair all come together and make sense to me.  He may be an alien, but he's not completely devoid of emotion.  

And one last thing.  I love some of the technical stuff going on here.  If you watch, in the beginning even though everyone is in pastels, there is still a lot of color, just not saturated color.  But once their true nature is revealed when they start down the river, the color is nearly completely drained out of them.  Who they really are is showing through without filters and pretty backgrounds.

[Lantern7]

Playing catch-up. Damn, this was a dark episode. Funny in some spots (who doesn’t want to see an airhead walk straight into a lamppost?), but pretty damn dark. The racial implications didn’t dawn on me until I read the comments here. I’d like to think the Doctor would eventually calm down and realize that if he had taken in any of those kids, he’d wind up ejecting them into the sun inside of a week. And then he’d shake Ruby so she could make it snow.

Holy shit, Ricky got screwed. I was expecting a dark twist with him until he discovered the home world was no more. Primo companion candidate.

[NeenerNeener]

For what it's worth, Gatwa will be 32 in October and looks every minute of it on a high-def tv. So the reason he's notably not in their "clique" is not only his color, but his age. This same script would still work with a white actor over 30 and the message would have been "OK, boomer".