S03.E03: Forces of Nature

[Eeksquire]

I think the age thing is also a nod to current sensibilities: I know it's historically accurate, but I don't really want to be confronted with the fact that men in their 30s (and older) were essentially shopping for 17 year old girls - I think that would ruin the viewing experience for a lot of people. 

[chaifan]

9 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

I don't really want to be confronted with the fact that men in their 30s (and older) were essentially shopping for 17 year old girls - I think that would ruin the viewing experience for a lot of people. 

Yep.  That's why I didn't really like Season 1 as much as most people.  Daphne looked younger than her supposed 17 or 18, and Simon was in his 30's, and that just was icky for me.  I really loved the full fledged adult smolder & burn of Kate & Anthony in Season 2. 

[Ohiopirate02]

10 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

I think the age thing is also a nod to current sensibilities: I know it's historically accurate, but I don't really want to be confronted with the fact that men in their 30s (and older) were essentially shopping for 17 year old girls - I think that would ruin the viewing experience for a lot of people. 

It is exactly that.  I mentioned in my post the fact that current historical romance writers are no longer writing 17 year old heroines like they did 20+ years ago.  Age gaps are still a thing, but not adult male seeking teenaged female.  It's man in his 30s and a women in her 20s age gap or both characters are in their 20s.  

[Roseanna]

Why did they make Colin and Penelope so young? In the book he is 33 years, so he has developed into an adult. On the other hand, she is 28 years old which makes her crush on him rather pathetic. 

[andromeda331]

This is the episode Portia says that Penelope spent her pin money on her new clothes. How much are dresses and how much pin did girls generally have? It seems like dresses would be expensive. Would Penelope be able to afford all her new clothes from her pin money? Shouldn't Portia be wondering how Penelope could afford all her new dresses?

[RachelKM]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

This is the episode Portia says that Penelope spent her pin money on her new clothes. How much are dresses and how much pin did girls generally have? It seems like dresses would be expensive. Would Penelope be able to afford all her new clothes from her pin money? Shouldn't Portia be wondering how Penelope could afford all her new dresses?

I also noted that.  My understanding is that things like ballgowns were pretty expensive.* However, buying hats, gloves, and even a gown here and there was the purpose of pin money. 

If she spent her money on little else, she could probably buy a couple of dresses but definitely not a season's worth, even with the Featheringtons' recent (deceptively acquired) change in circumstances. 

*I'm a nerd a regularly look stuff like this up.  Some examples of costs in the Regency Era can be found here and a discussion of pin money here.

Edited May 24 by RachelKM

[chaifan]

4 hours ago, RachelKM said:

*I'm a nerd a regularly look stuff like this up.  Some examples of costs in the Regency Era can be found here and a discussion of pin money here.

Fellow nerd here.  When I was watching Harlots, I did the same thing.  I loved figuring out how much the different women at different brothels were paid, what the "kept" women made.  I think I started a thread on that in that forum.

I also noted Portia's comment about the "pin" money, and also thought that there was no way pin money would account for a whole wardrobe.  Portia's not stupid, so that line bothered me a bit. 

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, chaifan said:

I also noted Portia's comment about the "pin" money, and also thought that there was no way pin money would account for a whole wardrobe.  Portia's not stupid, so that line bothered me a bit. 

Maybe Portia is aware of Pen's LWD business, and is just not letting on. It would fit with her having not told her daughters about where babies come from. And this could lead to Lady F encouraging Pen to try to marry Lord Veggie so she could continue her Scandal Sheet out of the watchful eye of the ton.

Edited May 25 by shapeshifter
daughters not daughter's

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, RachelKM said:

I also noted that.  My understanding is that things like ballgowns were pretty expensive.* However, buying hats, gloves, and even a gown here and there was the purpose of pin money. 

If she spent her money on little else, she could probably buy a couple of dresses but definitely not a season's worth, even with the Featheringtons' recent (deceptively acquired) change in circumstances. 

*I'm a nerd a regularly look stuff like this up.  Some examples of costs in the Regency Era can be found here and a discussion of pin money here.

Thanks I wasn't sure. My pin money information only comes from books and movies but it never seemed like a lot since characters only seem to buy hats, books and stuff. Not a dress, especially one for balls which seemed like a lot of money.  

8 hours ago, chaifan said:

Fellow nerd here.  When I was watching Harlots, I did the same thing.  I loved figuring out how much the different women at different brothels were paid, what the "kept" women made.  I think I started a thread on that in that forum.

I also noted Portia's comment about the "pin" money, and also thought that there was no way pin money would account for a whole wardrobe.  Portia's not stupid, so that line bothered me a bit. 

That's what I wondered. Portia's not stupid especially where money's concerned. She would know how much Penelope has and not enough for a new gowns. Maybe it's like her putting off talking to her married daughters about an heir and finding out they have no idea what sex is. Really she wouldn't have done that as soon as document was forged. 

[Haleth]

I was also wondering how Violet did not know Lady Danbury has a brother. They've known each other for decades, it never came up?

I thought Benedict was gay?  Maybe that's too controversial for the author?  Who is Sophie?

I'm surprised the actress playing Francesca is 29!  And Nicola Coughlan is 37???

Does anyone know if there's a site that lists all the music?  I love the classical renderings of current music but can't always put my finger on what the songs are.

[RachelKM]

 

8 hours ago, Haleth said:

I was also wondering how Violet did not know Lady Danbury has a brother. They've known each other for decades, it never came up?

Landy Danbury was a married woman having an emotional affair with Violet's father when Violet was 14 or 15.  They may be friends now, but they weren't really peers. So, it's unlikely they would have the kind of conversations in which Violet would hear about her family unless Lady Danbury chose to bring it up and it doesn't seem she talked about her family at all.

I'm a little more surprised that Violet wouldn't know her relationship to a lord based on knowing the peerage, at least as to familial connections. But it's not impossible.

8 hours ago, Haleth said:

I thought Benedict was gay?  Maybe that's too controversial for the author?  Who is Sophie?

There was some mild queer baiting in Season 1, but no.  Benedict has never been shown to be gay.  The Sophie referenced is his book pairing not someone on the show. 

Edited May 25 by RachelKM

[PRgal]

Even if Benedict IS gay, realistically, he'd still marry a woman and just have boy toys/f-buddies.  That's how things were done in most cultures, even ones that were more accepting of homosexuality - especially for the upper classes where siring a male heir was important.  As for Portia not telling her daughters about sex/reproduction, I thought it was the mother's job to tell their daughters about the wedding night?  

[Orcinus orca]

In season one Violet attempts to explain "the wedding night" to Daphne.  It is hilarious and totally uninformative.  I imagine most of the upper class explanations were quite as nebulous.

[PRgal]

29 minutes ago, Orcinus orca said:

In season one Violet attempts to explain "the wedding night" to Daphne.  It is hilarious and totally uninformative.  I imagine most of the upper class explanations were quite as nebulous.

The fact that 21st century brides are pretty much all “ruined” by Regency standards would probably freak them out.  lol

[Roseanna]

10 hours ago, PRgal said:

Even if Benedict IS gay, realistically, he'd still marry a woman and just have boy toys/f-buddies.  That's how things were done in most cultures, even ones that were more accepting of homosexuality - especially for the upper classes where siring a male heir was important. 

Benedict isn't the eldest son and has no title, so he has no need to marry just get an heir. Even if Anthony got no son, there is still two younger brothers. 

Besides, IRL some couples didn't got any children or got only daughters. And at least some children, sometimes all, died despite of social class.

  

[Roseanna]

9 hours ago, Orcinus orca said:

In season one Violet attempts to explain "the wedding night" to Daphne.  It is hilarious and totally uninformative.  I imagine most of the upper class explanations were quite as nebulous.

I doubt it. It wasn't a Victorian age. 

The plot demanded Daphe to be ignorant, so Violet was made prude.  

[Orcinus orca]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I doubt it. It wasn't a Victorian age. 

The plot demanded Daphe to be ignorant, so Violet was made prude.  

Well, clearly Lady Featherington didn't step up either.

[violet and green]

On 5/22/2024 at 4:38 AM, Orcinus orca said:

I find the make up yery distracting as well.  It's very shiny which makes the faces look plastic.

I find the makeup really distracting, also. I don't seem to remember it being this heavy, especially in season one. Colin is covered in foundation, mercifully less ochre than episode one. Almost every one of the young women are  wearing some similar if not the exact same shade of bronze eye shadow, thick foundation, and some ghastly lipstick; but at least they seem to get Pen's makeup look to be more flattering most scenes.

[Roseanna]

On 5/25/2024 at 11:45 AM, andromeda331 said:

Portia's not stupid especially where money's concerned. She would know how much Penelope has and not enough for a new gowns.

Even today, there are moms who are quite blind and never question how their teen age daughter succeeded to get expensive clothes or had and an abortion.

More important, IRL it wouldn't believable that 17-20 year old Pen could be Lady Whistleton - but it's the precondition of the show, so I guess we must accept it. In the same way, we must accept that nobody guessed her secret identity (until Eloise did) and her mother never noticed her clothes, maybe never even saw her. 

[Shermie]

On 5/17/2024 at 2:18 AM, magdalene said:

agree with others here that the writing needs to add some gravitas or something to Benedict as a character if they want me to believe he can carry his own season.

As it stands he is a handsome and charming shallow man who wishy-washily floats through life.

Isn’t that the point, though? When it’s his episode, we’ll get the reason for his flakiness followed by his redemption through true love. ::shrug:: I dunno, I didn’t read the books.

Regarding the ages of the actors and how old/young they look. Penelope looks like a little girl dancing with her father with Lord What’s-his-name. He’s a great guy, but they looked creepy together, imo. He’s a much better match for Cressida.

As for young women looking older, just look at pictures of teens in the 1930s, 40s or 50s. They look like 35-year-olds with their permed hair and sensible dresses.

The clothes are fab this year, but I still think the empire waist dresses make everyone look pregnant. It’s so weird how everyone was concerned about image and propriety for these young ladies, but then they have cleavage spilling out all over.

[Kirsty]

The styling for Cressida is impressively hideous. (Sleeves like furniture! The Medusa hair!) I guess they're trying to hide the actress's natural beauty so she's always styled like she came straight from the Capitol in The Hunger Games.

Speaking of hair, what was that one musician hiding under his ridiculous wig? 😄

I wasn't really feeling this episode. I think my enjoyment of the show relies heavily on the appeal of the main romance, and I'm not excited about Colin/Pen. I want to be! But their romantic development was all in Colin's facial expressions in this episode, as he felt lust, confusion and jealousy. And unfortunately, I don't find Colin charming or charismatic so his facial expressions aren't going to achieve very much on their own. He's more appealing when he's being a warmly chatty friend.

As someone watching an episode a week, let me reassure all you binge-watchers: watching one episode a week isn't doing the show any favours. Bridgerton is proving too insubstantial for weekly viewing. It's a mess of sub-plots, most of them only semi-engaging at best, and a single episode doesn't develop any one of those sub-plots enough to make you more invested in it.

So I'm most invested in Eloise/Penelope, because both of them have been main characters for three seasons, both actresses are good, and they had a fantastically dramatic breakup last season after two seasons of friendship.

There's a new showrunner this season, right? I don't know how much to make out of that. Like, I loved season two. But I often found Edwina, Kate's sister, fake, stilted, and full of forced cheer. This season, I find a lot of the show to be like that. I want to see more realness, more warmth and intimacy. It didn't help that this episode had hardly any scenes set at home; it was almost all set at various social occasions where everyone was kind of performing.

Edited May 31 by Kirsty

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, Kirsty said:

So I'm most invested in Eloise/Penelope, because both of them have been main characters for three seasons, both actresses are good, and they had a fantastically dramatic breakup last season after two seasons of friendship.

So am I.

[RealHousewife]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:10 AM, chaifan said:

Yep.  That's why I didn't really like Season 1 as much as most people.  Daphne looked younger than her supposed 17 or 18, and Simon was in his 30's, and that just was icky for me.  I really loved the full fledged adult smolder & burn of Kate & Anthony in Season 2. 

Same! Daphne is beautiful, but girlish, not womanly. I see someone who looks like she could be in high school. Plus Simon is handsome but doesn't have the sex appeal Anthony does imo, even if I saw him with a partner his age. With season 2, Kate is a beautiful young woman, and Anthony is a sexy man around her age. It's so much better. 

[andromeda331]

On 8/24/2024 at 10:58 AM, RealHousewife said:

Same! Daphne is beautiful, but girlish, not womanly. I see someone who looks like she could be in high school. Plus Simon is handsome but doesn't have the sex appeal Anthony does imo, even if I saw him with a partner his age. With season 2, Kate is a beautiful young woman, and Anthony is a sexy man around her age. It's so much better. 

I agree with you except for Simon having no sex appeal. Someone Daphne's age marrying someone older or even much older is pretty common for the era. 

[RealHousewife]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agree with you except for Simon having no sex appeal. Someone Daphne's age marrying someone older or even much older is pretty common for the era. 

Oh yes, I know other ladies went crazy for Simon and that’s sadly true. I’m glad those huge age gap marriages are not the norm anymore. 

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

Oh yes, I know other ladies went crazy for Simon and that’s sadly true. I’m glad those huge age gap marriages are not the norm anymore. 

So am I.