S05.E03: Jinaal

[paulvdb]

Quote

On Trill, Captain Burnham, Book, and Culber must pass a dangerous test to prove themselves worthy of the next clue. Adira reconnects with Gray and Saru's first day as ambassador is complicated by his engagement to T'Rina.

Premiere date: April 11, 2024

[AnimeMania]

[Tachi Rocinante]

Well that was, something, I guess.  Relationship drama always seems to drag episodes down.  The Trill pool reminded me of Aretuza.

[thuganomics85]

I know Rayner is a jerk for only "analyzing" the main crew instead of actually getting to know them, but considering that I usually have to IMDB any character who isn't in the main cast, he's already a step ahead of me at least.  It's not that they are bad, but the show never really did a good job at making the bridge gang standout in ways the other Treks have.

Great seeing Reno again: complete with Tig Notaro getting bumped up to main credit status this season.  Hope we see more of her.  It was brief, but I can already see the comedic potential to keep having Rayner and Reno in the same scenes together.

I suspected Jinaal was playing some kind of game/test with Michael and Booker, and would help them at the end, but he was still kind of a dick about it.  But I guess when you live that long (sort of), your bound to be a social mess.  Wilson Cruz seem to be having fun playing the character.

Saru seems to have a solid handle on the politics so far, but almost screws things up with T'Rina after her aid gets in his head about how their relationship will damage her status with the Vulcan purists.  At least he did apologize and seem to understand why he was wrong, and they've moved past it.  I do wonder if the Vulcan purists will end up being a bigger threat than expected.

Grey returns so that they can end things with them and Adira.  Not much else to add there, really.

Moll uses Adira to plant a bug or something on Discovery. 

[MissLucas]

Prime Cat's Log, 7th life, day 2258

• Underlings still cookie cutter hunting.
• Grumpy new underling of red pride arrives. Made effort to learn something called ‘human idioms’, gets accused of not trying to connect with crew.
• Asked voice in hull for explanation of 'human idioms' and if any of the other underlings made effort to use Kellun idioms - nope.
• Worst offense of new underling of red pride so far: not offering chips to favorite underling of yellow pride.
• Though not sure favorite underling of yellow pride deserves chips – got mushy over underling kitten’s love life. Showed at least some self-awareness about sounding woo-woo.
• First underling and *sigh* mate continue tiring, mopey mating ritual and go on side quest.
• Being connected to first underling’s mind is helpful for getting kibble on time – downside is seeing idiotic behavior on missions.
• Sure, healer underling – who is not just responsible for broken paws but also broken minds – should be volunteering for a weird Trill  experiment.
• Not one of the Trills present or the underling kitten who already had experience with a Trill living in their mind.
• What could possibly go wrong?
• First underling and *sigh* mate go on a hike with clearly unhinged Trill body-snatcher who gives dodgy answers while leading them into unknown and dangerous territory.
• He’s testing them like a character in stories - called fairy tales I think - beloved by underling kittens. Yet first underling and *sigh* mate both act surprised and confused, clearly minds befuddled by tiring, mopey mating ritual.
• Stakes aren’t high – who needs additional security for a simple walk into the territory of ferocious predators?
• There we go – pissed off giant moths do what you expect giant pissed off moths to do.
• Of course, first underling gets injured by trying to save *sigh* mate.
• Something called ‘basic xenoanthropology’ allows *sigh* mate to figure out pissed off moths will respond well to rational arguments.
• Strangely enough ‘basic xenoanthropology’ has so far failed to make her understand feline nature. Further proof – as if any was needed – of feline superiority.
• But I digress.
• Meanwhile grumpy new underling of red pride keeps trailing supposedly dangerous lost kitten and her mate, warning that they are about to catch up – nobody cares because ‘bonding’ is more important.

Edited April 12 by MissLucas

[marinw]

I’m confused. If they decommissioned the Spore Drive why is Disco still going to Black Alert?

[Stardancer Supreme]

Hmmm. Looks like Moll isn't as slow on the uptake as we thought! I'm just curious how she was able to slide into a Trill ceremony without anyone noticing... I guess Moll and L'ak aren't concerned about getting the pieces of the puzzle themselves; I, too, would let Michael and her crew take the hits and just tag along to the end. Is there a mole on Discovery already? Is it Rayner?

Now Commander Rayner's "Getting to know the Crew" sessions went off to a rousing start (*sarcasm*).  I did love that Michael so gently told him to attempt to bond with the Discovery crew because they didn't like him. So we won't see Lt. Commander Nilsson anymore because she went to Voyager. And the neutered tribble now belongs to Lt. Christopher! I wanted to know what Reno and Owosekun (Joanne "Oh Wow!" Owosekun) said to him in 20 words or less. Heh. Tilly only lacked one more word to tell Rayner what she really thought of him. 

19 minutes ago, marinw said:

I’m confused. If they decommissioned the Spore Drive, why is Disco still going to Black Alert?

 

I think they decommissioned the Spore Drive from being reproduced for other ships. Discovery is the only ship with the Spore Drive.

 

[Chit Chat]

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

Saru seems to have a solid handle on the politics so far, but almost screws things up with T'Rina after her aid gets in his head about how their relationship will damage her status with the Vulcan purists.

Wouldn't their relationship be a conflict of interest when it comes to voting on issues?  I'm already sick of their relationship drama.  I don't need so much time spent on them as a couple. 

10 minutes ago, Stardancer Supreme said:

I'm just curious how she was able to slide into a Trill ceremony without anyone noticing...

That seemed to be a bit of a stretch.  That got the side eye from me!

1 hour ago, thuganomics85 said:

I know Rayner is a jerk for only "analyzing" the main crew instead of actually getting to know them, but considering that I usually have to IMDB any character who isn't in the main cast, he's already a step ahead of me at least. 

Although he was a bit of a jerk, I actually like his no-nonsense style.  Quit wasting time with the woo woo stuff and get to the damn point!!  He was trying to figure shit out.  He doesn't have time to become best friends with everybody at that moment.  The amount of time spent on focusing on all of these character's feelings is dragging this show down.  YMMV.

[marinw]

By coincidence I am now watching “The Chase” which essentially the plot of the whole final season of Disco, but in one episode.

[Affogato]

13 minutes ago, marinw said:

By coincidence I am now watching “The Chase” which essentially the plot of the whole final season of Disco, but in one episode.

Yes, maybe, you commented on it earlier. Something about Lower Decks could do it in one episode. Sure, anyone could. Tim and Jerry could. But you miss the workd building and getting the characters, who are actually changing, from point A to point B. So sure, the plot expands to fill the space needed. 

[PurpleTentacle]

So how did Moll know they were on Trill? Because she put the tracker on somebody now, so clearly didn't have one before. I assume she just went back to the necropolis planet and found the second part of the riddle, because nobody destroyed it and nobody thought it was a good idea to set a trap there. -.-

[marinw]

14 hours ago, Affogato said:

But you miss the workd building and getting the characters, who are actually changing, from point A to point B. So sure, the plot expands to fill the space needed. 

"The real mission was to learn about ourselves"!

Yep, the Lower Decks comment was me!  LD and Strange New Worlds still has lots of character development and world building with efficient story telling. 

Edited April 12 by marinw

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

"The real mission was to learn about ourselves'!

Yep, the Lower Decks comment was me!  LD and Strange New Worlds still has lots of character development and world building with efficient story telling. 

TNG started out wanting to be something else, but fans shot it down.  It has been so long I won’t argue it, except to say that in the second season TNG slipped into a familiar TV pattern. Women in supporting roles. Two spocks (I mean Worf and Data, in heavy makeup). Stories wrapped up in one episode, two at the appropriate end of season. Data keeps on making progress to become a real boy, no he doesn’t. And so it goes. SNW and LD are doing a little better,  maybe because mainstream television has changed a little, but they are still doing the science fiction procedural pattern. SNW in particular, as near as I can tell, is getting its Arc from the fact that we know what is going to happen.

Contrast all of the above with Deep Space Nine. I will give you that LD has the possibility of telling that sort of story, we will have to wait and see. 

Discovery went hundreds of years into the future a long time ago. It was probably supposed to last 7 seasons. The crew is isolated in the new world and is becoming part of it. Having crew memebers from the current time period, having crew members leave. It is a lot to show in the remaining episodes. 

I have been good with Discovery, especially since it went into its future..

[Affogato]

I don’t ship much, but I like Book and Michael. When they were off on Trill and Michael is saying ‘more good than bad’ Book immediately nods. He believes that, too. When she decides to confront the monsters he objects but he does not so much as reach out a hand to hold her back, because he lets her make her own decisions. And they share a lot, even though they are different.

If you have been dead for a long time and are allowed an hour or two of life, well, if I had been…you know…I would want to go for a walk and look at the stars, and maybe jerk a few people around to do it. I am totally okay with his behavior. The testing the people who get the information, probably decided during his first life. 

Rayner noticed he was a bit of a jerk in the bar, so maybe there will be changes. Discovery came from the past and are closer than most ships, I’d guess. For someone with Rayners attachment style it is a hard culture to break into. He will have to stop expecting all of the intimacy to go from them to him and open up.

There is more to Moll than meets the eye, for sure.

[marinw]

27 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I don’t ship much, but I like Book and Michael.

I am shipping power couple T'Rina and Saru. 

[Affogato]

16 minutes ago, marinw said:

I am shipping power couple T'Rina and Saru. 

I like them, too. I think they are handling the romances well. Adira and Grey are also going through relatable times for teenagers. 

[marinw]

4 hours ago, Affogato said:

I have been good with Discovery, especially since it went into its future..

Agreed, the show can now explore some new territory without retconning  everything. I would like to see the tech develop to the point where they can think about visiting other galaxies, that might be a good way to end the series. They can say hi to the Andromeda folks from "By Any Other Name" who turned people into cubes.

Edited April 12 by marinw

[MissLucas]

Discovery being free from the problem of retconning made me excited - until the first big arc in the future revolved about a tsunami of alien teenage angst. Last season wasn't much better. The writers rely way too much on mystery box writing with Burnham as the linchpin for all drama.

The blueprint for this season is already visible: Rayner is pulling an Ahab with Moll (and La'ak). Meanwhile Booker is slowly turning into Lost's Michael. Sooner or later Burnham will have to make an 'agonizing' choice between her boyfriend and her number one 🙄

The only interesting arc might be due to the Vulcan Purists who are currently holding Chekhov's gun status. (This is the final season otherwise I would bet some good money that T'Rina won't survive her wedding for long so that Saru can return to Discovery.)

[Affogato]

11 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Discovery being free from the problem of retconning made me excited - until the first big arc in the future revolved about a tsunami of alien teenage angst. Last season wasn't much better. The writers rely way too much on mystery box writing with Burnham as the linchpin for all drama.

The blueprint for this season is already visible: Rayner is pulling an Ahab with Moll (and La'ak). Meanwhile Booker is slowly turning into Lost's Michael. Sooner or later Burnham will have to make an 'agonizing' choice between her boyfriend and her number one 🙄

The only interesting arc might be due to the Vulcan Purists who are currently holding Chekhov's gun status. (This is the final season otherwise I would bet some good money that T'Rina won't survive her wedding for long so that Saru can return to Discovery.)

I think that Saru isn’t going to return to Discovery and I don’t think T’Rina and Saru are going to be split up, by death or anything else. I think this show wants people to grow up and get new jobs, leave home, make life changing decisions that work out for them. 

Do you mean Booker is doing an Ahab with Moll, chasing the white whale of family connection? Because he kind of is. Raynar, I think that is unlikely. I think there is a chance that Michael goes off with Booker at the end of the series and Raynar becomes captain of the Discovery, maybe an offside chance.

Anyway, I think this season is about people making those decisions about the direction their life is going to take when the series ends, I don’t think the plot (aspeople have mentioned) is really any more than a macguffin, really, although the end point (that they are seekers looking for the reason for their existance) is central.

I’m not good at this, very often, but I really see a lot of self actualization and not a whole lot of death in this season.

[MissLucas]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

Do you mean Booker is doing an Ahab with Moll, chasing the white whale of family connection?

No, Reynar is Ahab chasing Moll. Booker is searching for Moll like Michael Dawson in Lost was searching for his son Walt. People became increasingly annoyed with the character, and he became a meme,  there was even a website devoted to his screams for Waaalt!

Reynar and Booker both look for Moll, one with the intention of finally putting her in prison or worse while Booker's intentions are clearly benevolent. Hence the conflict. Also: we know why this is so important for Booker. I suppose we will get around to see a flashback explaining Reynar's obsession. It's very likely Moll and L'ak killed or are responsible for the death of someone he loved.

Edited April 12 by MissLucas
Edited because Moll is not dating the USS Enterprise's chief of security.

[Affogato]

15 hours ago, MissLucas said:

No, Reynar is Ahab chasing Moll. Booker is searching for Moll like Michael Dawson in Lost was searching for his son Walt. People became increasingly annoyed with the character, and he became a meme,  there was even a website devoted to his screams for Waaalt!

Reynar and Booker both look for Moll, one with the intention of finally putting her in prison or worse while Booker's intentions are clearly benevolent. Hence the conflict. Also: we know why this is so important for Booker. I suppose we will get around to see a flashback explaining Reynar's obsession. It's very likely Moll and L'ak killed or are responsible for the death of someone he loved.

The white whale analogy throws me. Also i wasn’t that upset by Michael looking for Walt. We shall see, though. It would be funny if reynar is her father. 

[Stardancer Supreme]

On 4/12/2024 at 12:56 PM, Affogato said:

Do you mean Booker is doing an Ahab with Moll, chasing the white whale of family connection? Because he kind of is. Rayner, I think that is unlikely. I think there is a chance that Michael goes off with Booker at the end of the series and Rayner becomes captain of the Discovery, maybe an offside chance.

 

That is the only thing that bugs me about Book this season. We went through his grief and despair last season about losing his planet and people; It's almost sad that he is seeking a familial connection with someone he has never met. Moll is not going to cozy up to someone carrying her father's codename. I hope that this season is not going to steer Book in that familiar trope of hope/betrayal that usually happens in situations like this one.

 

[tennisgurl]

Hold on just a minute there, how in the hell did Moll manage to sneak into a secret Trill ceremony, wouldn't all of the Trill guardians down there know each other? Have some form of security? Moll and her partner are just two random bounty hunter types, I'm worried that they're really going to have to make some huge leaps in logic to make them a real threat. 

 T'Rina and Saru continue to be extremely endearing and adorable, even when they have their first real fight. Vulcan engagement announcements are quite politically spicy as it turns out. 

Book's connection to Moll seems kind of distant for this intense emotional reaction, but I can get how he's really attached to the idea of seeing anyone connected to his past after using his whole planet.

Wilson Cruz was certainly having a grand old time getting to play a new character for an episode. I knew that the nest of alien monsters would turn out to be some kind of test, but still a pretty dick move, especially with him telling them to take their phasers out, kind of setting them up to fail. 

Good to know that Tribbles can be neutered now!

[Affogato]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Hold on just a minute there, how in the hell did Moll manage to sneak into a secret Trill ceremony, wouldn't all of the Trill guardians down there know each other? Have some form of security? Moll and her partner are just two random bounty hunter types, I'm worried that they're really going to have to make some huge leaps in logic to make them a real threat. 

 ……………

Book's connection to Moll seems kind of distant for this intense emotional reaction, but I can get how he's really attached to the idea of seeing anyone connected to his past after using his whole planet.
………..

Good to know that Tribbles can be neutered now!

You would think everyone except Klingons would want a neutered Tribble!  I do. 
 

 Moll  is confusing in general. I also wonder at her motivations, because of the confusion. There is something we don’t know, I think. 

[jcin617]

On 4/15/2024 at 3:23 PM, tennisgurl said:

Hold on just a minute there, how in the hell did Moll manage to sneak into a secret Trill ceremony, wouldn't all of the Trill guardians down there know each other? Have some form of security? Moll and her partner are just two random bounty hunter types, I'm worried that they're really going to have to make some huge leaps in logic to make them a real threat. 

They’ve already made lots of bizarre leaps of logic.  For Moll to have found them they would have had to figure out the 5th clue.  Then they would have had to find them on Trill, figured out what they were doing and dressed appropriately, all while no one paid any attention.

Of course, only a handful of people (if they’re smart) on Discovery knows where the next clue is.  So what you do is tell Zora the location, wipe that part of your memory and lock away the two pieces you have in some technobabble quantum vault for umpteen years, until Moll gives up/is arrested/dies.

With two pieces of the puzzle secured, one of which is the only clue to the next location, you literally have all the time in the universe to proceed.  You don’t need this technology immediately to solve some crisis and its been safe for 800 years - its not going anywhere… and Moll literally cannot find it if you don’t look for it.

 

Edited April 17 by jcin617

[Jodithgrace]

I guess Mol was able to answer the riddle and beam down. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Not sure why Reno called Stamets "Space Dad." I thought Space Dad was Pike.

Yeah, that was some great acting when Culber became Jinaal. His voice and whole affect was visibly different.

Space Daniel Craig was being quite the tightass while he was commanding the ship. I love Raynor.

"Most sentient beings are driven by a will to do good." I know Burnham tends to be blindly optimistic but since when is she so naive?

Tilly went awf on Raynor!

T'Rina is not letting Saru go come hell or high water. I know she's in love but something about her steadfastness isn't sitting right with me.