S05.E01: Golden Days For Boys And Girls

[Avaleigh]

I felt like young Nucky took umbrage over the kid mocking the lady who'd just been kind enough to give him a tip. She even complimented the kid and said something about what a nice young man he is and Nucky was basically all like hell he is! I definitely felt his frustration.

It reminded me of a moment in the show The Sopranos where straight living, non-wiseguy Artie Bucco was telling mob boss Tony about how his father would always say to him, paraphrasing, "You'll see. Be honest and hardworking and all of the good things will come and the sacrifices and choice of not going into the mob lifestyle will all have been worth it." Artie basically felt like a fool for choosing the straight path in life and seemed too depressed to see the up side to not living a life of crime.

Nucky seems to have made the choice early on but he might well have been more of an Artie if he hadn't had the Commodore in his ear explaining the way it all works in AC.

[lucindabelle]

I also felt like Nucky took offense for he lady and that his returning the money, whatever the motive, was praiseworthy, what he meant by to get head wasn't what those men thought he meant. The poor kid was just thinking of the rules in the book he was reading.

I was also relieved the hat with the money wasn't a come on for sexual favors, was holding my breath when Nucky went into the field. Among other things I'm really tired of he hat plot line. People can be damaged and twisted without having been molested. Fr little Nucky not to take the money when we had seen how his father beat him for it was character, whatever those men said.

[ganesh]

What's good about captioning is that I realized the song Milton was "singing" was sort of hinting at breaking out of jail.  Those guards just thought he was stupid.

 

Oh yeah. All those old soul songs are about that. The guy was playing it up so hard. It was great when they all just went off in the riot. Chalky playing totally straight really sold the whole thing. 

 

Nucky seems to have made the choice early on but he might well have been more of an Artie if he hadn't had the Commodore in his ear explaining the way it all works in AC.

 

I think being regularly beaten at home may also have contributed to this too.

[TV Diva Queen]

This show has a good track record when it comes to child actors. The twins that played Tommy were my absolute favorite.

 

That said, can't they find a decent dialect coach?? Some of these actors don't know the difference between a Noo Yawk and a Boston accent and it drives me nuts...Margaret's boss and Meyer Lansky are the worst.

 

And finally, that recap ... I don't often LLOL (literally laugh out loud) but I did this time. Velcro... anvils... I can't...

 

 

You are so correct - when Margaret's boss was talking - I noticed the Boston accent too and said out loud "don't tell me this guy is a Kennedy"

 

Edited to add:  I have NO idea about the songs on the jail bus.  DANG IT.  I want to know what the guy was singing.  AND, is the hotel where the Commodore was holding court....is it the one the Nucky bought/lived in at the end of last season?  

Edited September 11, 2014 by TV Diva Queen

[RealityGal]

You are so correct - when Margaret's boss was talking - I noticed the Boston accent too and said out loud "don't tell me this guy is a Kennedy"

 

Edited to add:  I have NO idea about the songs on the jail bus.  DANG IT.  I want to know what the guy was singing.  AND, is the hotel where the Commodore was holding court....is it the one the Nucky bought/lived in at the end of last season?  

 

Join the club: I had no clue about it either, and I'm so embarrassed that it all flew right over my head.  I just kept thinking "boy, this guy sure does love to sing!  I don't know why he wants to be Chalky's best buddy though"  Now that I know, damn it, it was brilliant!

[editorgrrl]

I have NO idea about the songs on the jail bus.  DANG IT.  I want to know what the guy was singing.

 

The work song Milton sang is "Juber" (also known as "Juba"). According to HBO, this version is by Warner Miller.

 

And yes, Ian Hart (who's British) had a better accent as Nucky & Eli's abusive dad than whoever played Margaret's boss. (I just handwaved that the character had grown up in or near Boston.)

[TV Diva Queen]

I went to OnDemand last night to watch the work song portions again.  I couldn't engage closed caption and I couldn't really understand the words of the song.  I wish someone could help me.  LOL, I'm obsessed with this.  

[ZaldamoWilder]

Nucky's incentive for returning the money was his father?  I should pay closer attention, I did not get that at all.  I thought he kind of had a sense even as a kid what demonstrating integrity for a man like the Commodore would do for his future and just went with that.   

 

I caught  the opening sequence that said it was 1931 but had no idea that we'd left off in 1924.  The hell?  lol!

 

Margaret is still fascinating to me.  But a woman who got away with carrying on an affair behind her murderous husband's back, flinching when her boss walks in?  I'm wagging my finger at you BE, that's way outta character.

 

I'd love to see what Daughter, Gillian, Narcisse and Mrs. Harrow are up to.  Neurochick, I'm with you, I liked Richard but the guy, justifiably, had no social skills.   The only person I miss is Eddie. 

 

I swear I thought Chalky was about to chokehold Milton with his cuffs in the truck.  So between that and my annoyance at the coonery, I also missed the significance of his songs.  Well played.    I know he was supposed to be some kind of hick but am I the only one who was like, it's 1931, he's never used a telephone?

 

 

This is how it goes in my sick imagination:

 

Wife of Ear Cutter:  WHAT is this????

 

Ear Cutter:  Well I asked this fellow if he would lend me his ear and he took it literally!!  **major Latin shrug**

 

bye felicia!

[ganesh]

I swear I thought Chalky was about to chokehold Milton with his cuffs in the truck.  So between that and my annoyance at the coonery, I also missed the significance of his songs.

 

I figured it out when the second time the guard was pissed at Chalky for always being last or not following everyone. Total misdirection. 

[Johnny Dollar]

Even though closed captions said that the voice was Nucky's mother, that was definitely Gretchen Mol reciting that poem. She has a very distinctive voice.

Since HBO only gave the eight episodes, I'd much rather to have seen the rise of Capone and the fall of AR then anything to do with either Margaret or Narcisse. And I want to know what happened to Van Alden in the meantime too.

When young Nucky was hit by his father at the table, it was just heart breaking. That young actor was amazing.

[ganesh]

The rise of Capone has been extensively covered in pop culture, however. We know how that happened. Similarly Lucianco's establishment of Murder, Inc. Everyone knows what happens with that. The focus of the show has been more big picture. They were talking politics in the first season. Garnering that first women vote while supporting temperance while preparing for prohibition at the same time. It seems like they're ending on the same note, with the repeal. 

[editorgrrl]

The work song Milton sang is "Juber" (also known as "Juba"). According to HBO, this version is by Warner Miller.

[in the wagon]

Juber do, Juber don't

Juber will, Juber won't

Juber up, Juber down

Juber all around town

Sift the meal, give me the husk

Bake the cake, give me the crust

[Milton nudges Chalky]

Juber jump, Juber sing

Juber cut that pigeon wing

Juber here, Juber there

Juber everywhere

[The guard kicks a kneeling Chalky to the ground]

There's little ol' Uncle Jack

Have a pain in his back

Every time he try to skip

Then he has to get a limp

Juber! Juber!

[The guard won't let Chalky have a drink of water]

Juber this, Juber that

Juber get that yellow cat

Juber! Juber!

[Milton tells Chalky he killed his father]

Who been here since I been gone?

Pretty little gal with a jersey on

[Drogo]

 

Even though closed captions said that the voice was Nucky's mother, that was definitely Gretchen Mol reciting that poem. She has a very distinctive voice.

 

Watch again and pay close attention to Nucky's mother's voice... The poem is definitely recited by Nucky's mother.  

 

 

When young Nucky was hit by his father at the table, it was just heart breaking. That young actor was amazing.

 

Agreed, he was fantastic, but our experts say that a young Steve Buscemi would look more like this: 

 

[Drogo]

 

ND, is the hotel where the Commodore was holding court....is it the one the Nucky bought/lived in at the end of last season?

 

Nucky's S4 hangout was The Albatross, the Commodore is shown at The Corner Hotel.  

 

Not sure if they're the same place with different names, but to me the Albatross looks like the Corner with a paint job, a new porch fence, and some porticos.  

 

[editorgrrl]

Watch again and pay close attention to Nucky's mother's voice... The poem is definitely recited by Nucky's mother.

It sounds like Erin Dilly to me, too. According to the magazine Nucky's reading, the poem is “Be Honest and True” by George Birdseye. But my Googlefu turns up only mentions of the show, leading me to think the writers made it up:

Be honest and true, boys!

Whatever you do, boys,

Let this be your motto through life.

Both now and forever,

Be this your endeavor,

When wrong with the right is at strife.

The best and the truest,

Alas! are the fewest;

But be one of these if you can.

In duty ne’er fail; you

Will find ’twill avail you,

And bring its reward when a man.

Don’t think life plain sailing;

There’s danger of failing,

Though bright seem the future to be;

But honor and labor,

And truth to your neighbor,

Will bear you safe over life’s sea.

Then up and be doing,

Right only pursuing,

And take your fair part in the strife.

Be honest and true, boys,

Whatever you do, boys,

Let this be your motto through life!

[Neurochick]

I swear I thought Chalky was about to chokehold Milton with his cuffs in the truck.  So between that and my annoyance at the coonery, I also missed the significance of his songs.  Well played.    I know he was supposed to be some kind of hick but am I the only one who was like, it's 1931, he's never used a telephone?

 

 

Milton knew that if he acted like a simpleton, no one would look at him twice, and I was correct.  As for the telephone; my mom grew up in the 1940's in Virginia, in a large house with only one telephone.  It's possible that Milton lived way out in the country where no one had need of a telephone.  

[jordanpond]

 

 

Agreed, he was fantastic, but our experts say that a young Steve Buscemi would look more like this: 

 

Oh, Drogo, I laughed till I cried. Well done!

Edited September 16, 2014 by jordanpond

[A Boston Gal]

I'm sorry, but if that work song was a call to arms, I'm not seeing much of it, besides Uncle Jack with a pain in his back.

 

ZaldamoWilder,  this show's treatment of the Margaret character and her motivations/personality has always bugged me. You're right, it's haphazard. My beef has always been Margaret's signing everything over to the church when her daughter got polio, thus setting her and Nucky (and her own fortunes) spiraling downward. The practical Margaret we knew and loved would never do that. But in this case, I think she covered her tracks pretty well. What else was she gonna say when caught with her hand in the cookie jar? Something like, "Here, I got what you wanted!" seems to be the only thing possible.

Edited September 18, 2014 by A Boston Gal

[panthergirl13]

Livia Soprano wasn't from New York, she was from North Jersey. Yep, there's a difference.

The way certain characters speak in B'walk Empire is accurate for the time period. The Brooklynese pronunciations may sound exaggerated, but it was a thing. The Dorsey Brothers even put out a record in 1935 called "Dese, Dem, Dose."

Yep, I'm aware she was from North Jersey. But she was the ONLY character on that show with that weird accent, and they were all from Joisey.

 

Re Brooklyn and the time period, my entire family is from Brooklyn and that time period. We used to laugh at my father because he pronounced the word "earl" as "oil" and the word "oil" as "earl". Many of the BE characters have accents that are correct for the period, but several are completely off. "Dese, Dems and Dose" is right on the mark. But the Boston or midwestern vowel pronunciations... you can flush dose down the cherlet.

 

Anyway don't mean to get off-topic here but it's just something that annoys me about the show in general.

[lucindabelle]

But maybe the characters are from Boston originally? My late father was and lived her for more than 50 years and it only toned down, it never left. And I was a teenager before I realized the r in quarter is pronounced, so I picked that up from here.

[alynch]

Sorry to bump this thread, but I just noticed that the writeup for this episode for this episode claims that the opening voiceover was Gillian. Has that been confirmed? It's kind of neat if true. I just kind of assumed it was Nucky's mom, what with it being a flashback and all.

[hincandenza]

Yeah, it was clearly Gretchen Mol's voice reading that poem, as was mentioned further up this page here.  It was unmistakable, at least to me.

 

Of course, that was the season opener, and we're 3 days from the series finale.  Given that we now know a significant focus of this season has been Nucky's regret, guilt, and misgivings about his choices- leaving him without family, without friends, without allies, and probably without money- it's interesting to ponder why Gretchen Mol would be the voice of that poem (other than she has a lovely voice).  I'm not sure, so I'll spitball some thoughts.

 

• The poem is urging young men to be good citizens- something Nucky completely failed to become
• The shots of Nucky in that water with the other boys had a sort of womb-like quality; this flashback moment is the real birth of Nucky Thompson, realizing he will only get ahead by being more cutthroat than the next guy
• Who is narrating this symbolic birth of the cutthroat Nucky we know?  Gillian, of course: the fractured maternal icon of this show
• Nucky in 1931 is painfully realizing his cutthroat ways ultimately have failed him
• Nucky may finally be confronting himself about how badly he hurt Gillian, repeatedly, and has abandoned her for 7 years
• In the letter Gillian wrote to Nucky that was read to close out the penultimate episode last week, she appealed to his goodness and past help, gracefully glossing over Nucky's culpability.  "Be honest and true, boys"
• Nucky may also have realized by reading that letter that Gillian, and by extension Tommy, are in a sense the only family he has left (Margaret and her kids are distant and departed)
• I suspect Nucky may choose in the last episode to finally make "amends" of some kind, to balance his moral ledge if you will; and Gillian will be the focus of that.

 

Like I said, I don't have a concrete theory to express, or any formalized "map of symbolism", but I suspect there's a good reason that poem was read by Gretchen to open this final season.

 

Edited to add: Oh, and if you haven't been keeping up with it, there are some really good thoughts being shared about Gillian (and Nucky) over in the Gillian thread.

Edited October 23, 2014 by hincandenza