Belgravia: The Next Chapter - General Discussion

[chitowngirl]

Twenty-five years after the events of the previous show, scandals continue to plague the Trenchard family.
 

Episode 1: After a passionate courtship, Lord Frederick Trenchard marries the young, striking Clara Dunn, but Belgravia's scandals and the secrets from Frederick's past threaten the couple's newfound happiness.

[norcalgal]

Only because I have a free trial period was I able to watch the first episode.

 I know there was a throwaway line about how short a time Clara and Frederick knew each other but geeeez, at least wait until the end of episode 1 for the wedding part! 
Nice surprise for me that the original actors returned (Oliver and… Susan?). I’m spoiler-free.

Too bad my free trial ends next week because I’m curious how/why the Trenchards are now nobility, since the first series ended with them as Mr./Mrs. Trenchard (I’m speaking of Oliver’s parents).

 The other thing I’m curious about is who is the younger brother’s father?!  The first series established that Oliver was infertile.  So did his wife have another affair that resulted in the younger brother, or did Oliver’s infertility miraculously cure itself!

p.s.  took me a few seconds to realize the younger brother is portrayed by the guy who was in Reign! 

Edited January 15 by norcalgal

[shelen]

Taking into consideration the mother had blondish colored hair and Oliver was horrible to Charles growing up, it looks like he may have had a low sperm count instead of just shooting blanks. 

A few swimmers probably made it up there.

[izabella]

I rewatched Belgravia just before this, so it was a little weird to see them jump into the future with completely new characters.  I guess it makes sense that Oliver would treat Frederick badly, but I hope this isn't going to be a grim and gloomy tale the whole way through.  He has a lot to learn.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 1/14/2024 at 11:14 PM, norcalgal said:

The other thing I’m curious about is who is the younger brother’s father?!  The first series established that Oliver was infertile.  So did his wife have another affair that resulted in the younger brother, or did Oliver’s infertility miraculously cure itself!

Unless Susan managed to fool him with the second pregnancy, it seems Oliver just had a low sperm count, like shelen said. So after more than eleven years, he finally conceived, and the miraculousness of it made him dote on James all the more. And James's birth likely was what spelled the end for any chance Oliver was going to treat Frederick well, now that he had a biological son to compare him to and whom he would wish were his heir instead of Frederick.

Edited January 17 by Noneofyourbusiness

[blackwing]

I did not rewatch Belgravia before watching the first episode, so I couldn't remember the connection of Frederick to the Trenchards.  I looked up on Wikipedia to remind myself that Susan Trenchard had an affair with John Bellasis.

Who are the Duke and Duchess of Rochester in relation to Frederick?  Are they just family friends?  He treats them like his surrogate parents.  

Is Frederick impotent?  He was on top of her and then suddenly just rolled off her in disgust/disappointment and then abruptly left her bedroom.  It seemed to me that he has some issues that seem connected to his father treating him like crap.  Then later on, when she was talking to the Duchess, it sounded like she was alluding to impotency, he got mad, she flees the room and falls down the stairs.  

Or maybe I have just greatly misinterpreted that scene and he simply thinks she was saying he's a bad businessman and he got mad.

[Clawdette]

I interpreted the wedding night scene as Charles could not complete the action due to myriad memories depleting his sex drive. He wants to push them aside but he is too damaged to work through the trauma on his own.  Imagine his embarrassment even if there were therapists who would be willing to work with him.

I would love to see a family tree that takes us from the first series to this one.  I remember the Trenchards and their storyline but I have no idea how all the new people are connected (if they are).

[Brn2bwild]

I wonder if we'll see the Earl of Brockenhurst (once Charles Pope) and his family in this series.

It's sad that after the generally positive note Oliver's storyline ended on in the original series, they turned him into an abuser in this one.  There was no reason to make him outright abusive when his own parents were kind people.  He could have just struggled to show feelings of love toward Frederick.

And the storyline with the mysterious male servant and the woman who knows his past: does anyone else think he was actually born aristocratic and became a servant to hide from his abusers?

Edited January 19 by Brn2bwild

[norcalgal]

34 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

I wonder if we'll see the Earl of Brockenhurst (once Charles Pope) and his family in this series.

I too would love this series to show or at least mention Charles Pope and what’s going on with him and his family. After all, as far as Charles knows, he and Frederick are first cousins.

34 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

It's sad that after the generally positive note Oliver's storyline ended on in the original series, they turned him into an abuser in this one.  There was no reason to make him outright abusive when his own parents were kind people.  He could have just struggled to show feelings of love toward Charles.

Co-signed.  But if younger brother is truly Oliver’s son, I can see why Oliver would so demonstrably show anger/dismissiveness/hatred towards Frederick (I think that’s who you meant saying ‘Charles’ above.)

And the storyline with the mysterious male servant and the woman who knows his past: does anyone else think he was actually born aristocratic and became a servant to hide from his abusers?

I have zero speculation about this, and don’t care too much about the Downstairs shenanigans so far.

 

Edited January 19 by norcalgal

[chitowngirl]

Episode 2-After an argument, Frederick tries to renew the relationship by taking Clara to Glanville, their country estate, and reveals some of the trials of his childhood; the Dunns take in the mysterious Nell as their new maid.

[norcalgal]

OK, so I was able to watch the 2nd episode before my trial period ended...and I gotta say:

why don't Frederick's maternal family ever factor into the show? Even in Belgravia 1.0, when Susan told John Bellasis about her wealthy father and how she's his only child? daughter? even then, I wondered how come her family just doesn't seem to be around for her. Now it seems that's extended to Susan's kids. 

Clara's sister is sooooo thirsty for Rev. James (lololol). Does she feel that's her last chance to marry or something?  Now that Clara is Lady Trenchard (and I still need an explanation how the Trenchards are now nobility) surely the sister should be exposed to eligible bachelors! 

All the various storylines this series are a big downgrade on 1.0.  I just don't care too much what happens to the majority of the characters. (It also doesn't help that the actors in this series aren't on the same level as a few of the actors from the first series.)

[blackwing]

It was nice that Frederick brought Clara to his family home and was finally able to do the deed, from her reaction, this was the first time, after months of marriage.

On 1/18/2024 at 8:58 PM, Brn2bwild said:

I wonder if we'll see the Earl of Brockenhurst (once Charles Pope) and his family in this series.

It's sad that after the generally positive note Oliver's storyline ended on in the original series, they turned him into an abuser in this one.  There was no reason to make him outright abusive when his own parents were kind people.  He could have just struggled to show feelings of love toward Frederick.

And the storyline with the mysterious male servant and the woman who knows his past: does anyone else think he was actually born aristocratic and became a servant to hide from his abusers?

Agree about Oliver.  He wasn't that sympathetic in the first series, but at the end, they showed him to be somewhat accepting of the situation.  Oliver and Susan are presumably dead.  I agree that we need some kind of explanation in a letter or something as to how Oliver was able to father James, since we were told that he was sterile.

Not caring for the constant flashbacks to jerk Oliver hitting Frederick with the sword.  I get it.  He had a bad childhood.

There's no Charles Pope or any ostensible Pope/Bellasis listed in the credits.  However, it is entirely possible that Fletcher, Frederick's mysterious valet, could be the son of Charles.  He'd be about the right age and the new lady's maid said to him that she knows who he is.  It would be very Julian Fellowes to have this be the case.

21 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Clara's sister is sooooo thirsty for Rev. James (lololol). Does she feel that's her last chance to marry or something?  Now that Clara is Lady Trenchard (and I still need an explanation how the Trenchards are now nobility) surely the sister should be exposed to eligible bachelors! 

All the various storylines this series are a big downgrade on 1.0.  I just don't care too much what happens to the majority of the characters. (It also doesn't help that the actors in this series aren't on the same level as a few of the actors from the first series.)

I agree.  I googled some reviews and one particular review said that Frederick is the third Lord Trenchard.  What?!  In the first series, wasn't James some kind of merchant?  So are we to believe that at some point, James was given a title that was inherited by Oliver and then Frederick?  It seems clear that Frederick grew up in that huge house which is the family seat and that it has been empty for years.  I wonder if he is a baron or an earl.

I also agree that I'm not feeling some of the storylines, mostly because the show hasn't really given us any reason to care.  I'm still wondering about the Duke and Duchess of Rochester and why they seem to act like Frederick's surrogate parents even though the Duchess doesn't seem much older than him.  I don't particularly care about their child with epilepsy (?) or the weird doctor that is always hanging around.

Don't care about Frederick's manager who seems to be possibly having an affair with Frederick's cook and thus cuckolding her much older husband the butler.

Truly confused by the French lady and her servant (?) who she seems to be sleeping with.  I think she is Frederick's prospective business partner.

Unless Fletcher turns out to be a Pope/Belissasis, I don't really care what his secret is or why the new maid knows him.

Don't care about the mystery attempted suicide girl.

The only character I like besides Clara is Reverend James.  I find the sister annoying and the mother is the most annoying of all the characters.

[norcalgal]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

It was nice that Frederick brought Clara to his family home and was finally able to do the deed, from her reaction, this was the first time, after months of marriage.

Are we sure months have passed since their wedding ceremony? It doesn't seem that long to me (not based on anything concrete, just my own assumption).

There's no Charles Pope or any ostensible Pope/Bellasis listed in the credits.  However, it is entirely possible that Fletcher, Frederick's mysterious valet, could be the son of Charles.  He'd be about the right age and the new lady's maid said to him that she knows who he is.  It would be very Julian Fellowes to have this be the case.

Charles Pope would now be an earl. Why would his son be a mere servant? And if Fletcher was Charles' son, why wouldn't Frederick recognize him on sight? Oliver and Charles and uncle and nephew, so Frederick and mystery valet would be related, and presumably have seen each other at family functions.

I agree.  I googled some reviews and one particular review said that Frederick is the third Lord Trenchard.  What?!  In the first series, wasn't James some kind of merchant?  So are we to believe that at some point, James was given a title that was inherited by Oliver and then Frederick?  It seems clear that Frederick grew up in that huge house which is the family seat and that it has been empty for years.  I wonder if he is a baron or an earl.

Yes indeed. In the first series, Trenchard Sr. was a mere merchant and that background was referenced a few times. I guess the producers/writers want the viewers to memory hole that and pretend the Trenchards were always members of the nobility. 

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I also agree that I'm not feeling some of the storylines, mostly because the show hasn't really given us any reason to care.  I'm still wondering about the Duke and Duchess of Rochester and why they seem to act like Frederick's surrogate parents even though the Duchess doesn't seem much older than him.  I don't particularly care about their child with epilepsy (?) or the weird doctor that is always hanging around.

Don't care about Frederick's manager who seems to be possibly having an affair with Frederick's cook and thus cuckolding her much older husband the butler.

Truly confused by the French lady and her servant (?) who she seems to be sleeping with.  I think she is Frederick's prospective business partner.

Unless Fletcher turns out to be a Pope/Belissasis, I don't really care what his secret is or why the new maid knows him.

Don't care about the mystery attempted suicide girl.

The only character I like besides Clara is Reverend James.  I find the sister annoying and the mother is the most annoying of all the characters.

ITA to all the above, and glad you at least found a couple of characters to care about. Me, nope - don't care for anybody, and that includes the Duchess of Rochester who I loved, loved, loved in the 3rd season of Sanditon.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, norcalgal said:

Yes indeed. In the first series, Trenchard Sr. was a mere merchant and that background was referenced a few times.

Frederick mentioned that background in the first episode as well.

The Marquise: Commerce and the British aristocrat, I thought they did not mix. Frederick: My family has always believed in hard work. Once, it was a necessity and now it is a choice.

(later) Frederick: Do you have any idea how hard I've had to work to earn my place? To succeed in the face of the sneers, and the snide remarks, "the merchant", "the tradesman's grandson made good"

Obvious explanation is that the elder James was given a title before he died.

On 1/18/2024 at 9:58 PM, Brn2bwild said:

It's sad that after the generally positive note Oliver's storyline ended on in the original series, they turned him into an abuser in this one. 

I agree, it's too easy.

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

Truly confused by the French lady and her servant (?) who she seems to be sleeping with.  I think she is Frederick's prospective business partner.

Yes. The previous episode established that the Marquise made lots of money through investments and that Frederick wanted to go into business with her.

On 1/18/2024 at 10:32 PM, norcalgal said:

I too would love this series to show or at least mention Charles Pope and what’s going on with him and his family. After all, as far as Charles knows, he and Frederick are first cousins.

And biologically, they're second cousins.

[Brn2bwild]

I thought I recalled that Dad Trenchard from the first series was a "Sir."  That could have led to his receiving an upgrade to Baron or Viscount as his wealth grew due to Belgravia's success.

The second episode was a missed opportunity.  It moved too slowly and without any interesting stakes.  I still have no idea who Clara is, which I'm guessing is intentional and a huge secret will come out, but in the meantime, she's dull to watch.

Is anyone else bothered by Frederick's hair?  I'm sure it's time-period accurate, but to me it feels more 1970s than 1870s.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

8 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I thought I recalled that Dad Trenchard from the first series was a "Sir."  That could have led to his receiving an upgrade to Baron or Viscount as his wealth grew due to Belgravia's success.

And the Bellasises could have pulled strings because they wanted their in-laws to be titled.

8 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

The second episode was a missed opportunity.  It moved too slowly and without any interesting stakes.  I still have no idea who Clara is, which I'm guessing is intentional and a huge secret will come out, but in the meantime, she's dull to watch.

Possible, but I wouldn't bet on her not being exactly who she seems. Fortunately, I don't find her dull.

[blackwing]

19 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Charles Pope would now be an earl. Why would his son be a mere servant? And if Fletcher was Charles' son, why wouldn't Frederick recognize him on sight? Oliver and Charles and uncle and nephew, so Frederick and mystery valet would be related, and presumably have seen each other at family functions.

I think the problem is that, as is par for the course for Fellowes, we have been dropped right into the middle of the story and are left trying to figure things out, make assumptions, or wait for them to unfold.  Maybe Fletcher is Charles' secret bastard?  Charles died soon after the events in the first series, so Frederick and the rest never got to know him and didn't know that he had a child?  Maybe Charles didn't even know about the child?

It would have been nice for some line to be included about where Charles is.  Or whether the Belassis family did indeed ask for the Trenchards to get a title.

So much of Frederick's angst could have been spared if Susan had told him that Oliver wasn't his biological father.  But he was still Susan's son, why wouldn't Susan have demanded that Oliver stop being such a dick towards him?  Frederick is the elder son and inherited Oliver's title, even though he wasn't Oliver's son.  I guess the shame of admitting Frederick wasn't his child prevented Oliver from telling the world that he wasn't a Trenchard and that Reverend James was the rightful heir?

[chitowngirl]

I remember enjoying Belgravia…and very little of the nuances. So I’m going into this like these are all new characters! 😆

[norcalgal]

19 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

I remember enjoying Belgravia…and very little of the nuances. So I’m going into this like these are all new characters! 😆

Yeah, they actually are all new characters.  Shame that only Frederick's parents (Susan and Oliver) have returned in this series - and only in flashbacks at that!

I too enjoyed Belgravia when I rewatched a second time to prepare for this series. I recall thinking Belgravia 1.0 was boring and dumb when I watched the first time, but a rewatch made me really like it alot. 

 

[chitowngirl]

Episode 3: The Trenchards travel to Maywood for the Duke's birthday; behind the scenes, business deals are struck, but the Rochesters have private reasons for the trip; Clara conspires to repair Frederick and James' relationship.

[chitowngirl]

Episode 4: Reeling from James' visit, Frederick pushes forward in his work at the foundry; Clara finds comfort in a new group of friends made through Dr. Ellerby; a lonely James seeks solace elsewhere.

[blackwing]

On 1/23/2024 at 3:58 PM, norcalgal said:

ITA to all the above, and glad you at least found a couple of characters to care about. Me, nope - don't care for anybody, and that includes the Duchess of Rochester who I loved, loved, loved in the 3rd season of Sanditon.

I feel like this show is going off the rails.  I was very much interested and invested in the characters after Episode 2, but the past two episodes have been pretty awful.  My indifference to many of the characters has turned into dislike and in some cases, great hatred.

Frederick is a huge ass, pushing his wife away like that when she was only trying to help.

I truly despise Dr. Ellerby, he is clearly infatuated with Clara.  I hate the way he talks, he sounds so pretentious.  The way he sprawled himself out when she was looking at the painting and the way he makes eyes at her.

I can't stand the stupid butler and his "I didn't know".  Whatever.

I can't stand the sister, she is obviously interested in Reverend James and she's barely hiding it.  Too bad for her that he's gay!  

Still not liking the mom.  The Marquise and the Rochesters are completely extraneous and useless.

The only characters I like are Clara, her maid Davidson and James.  I feel sorry for Clara, she married a guy with lots of baggage, she is trying to help him, and he is just pushing her away.  I love the maid.  I love how utterly loyal she is to Clara even though the relationship is still new.

I like James.  He is clearly struggling with being gay.  I'm assuming this is something that he would definitely have wanted to have kept secret.  So why then does he frequent a public bathhouse when he is a public figure in the community?  It seemed like that guy easily tracked him down and gave him a knowing "now you're screwed because I know who you are" look.

Fletcher is apparently gay too, is that the big secret that Davidson was referring to?  I was still hoping that he was connected to the Pope/Belissis family.

I'm not sure how many episodes there are in this show, but so far, it pales in comparison to the first Belgravia.  The characters there were much better crafted and the storylines were more interesting.  I don't think Fellowes wrote any of this current series, did he?

[chitowngirl]

11 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm not sure how many episodes there are in this show, but so far, it pales in comparison to the first Belgravia.  The characters there were much better crafted and the storylines were more interesting.  I don't think Fellowes wrote any of this current series, did he?

There are 8 episodes and it looks like they were all written by Helen Edmundson.

[BusyOctober]

I don’t like any of the primary or secondary characters. They are all so boring, underdeveloped and I feel like I am watching a D-level soap opera.  The first series was 10x better and had a much stronger, more compelling and more talented cast.

Frederick is an asshole, and I don’t care that his father was mean to him.  I am guessing that the French “investor” is setting him up with a phony silver mine. The actor’s hair bugs me too…looks very 19080-90’s and not 1860’s.

James is boring, and I don’t care about his tortured soul over being a pastor and being gay.  Looks like his hook up at the bathhouse will be blackmailing him in 3…2…1… 

I will probably finish the series, but maybe I need a break from Julian Fellowes for a bit.  I feel like we are just watching the same tropes over and over.
 

[blackwing]

I truly can't stand all the angst about the dad not liking him.  For all that the dad hated him, Frederick still inherited the title.  From this episode 4 we learned that Oliver died before Susan.  If Oliver hated Frederick that much, couldn't he have sent a deathbed letter to the newspapers informing them that Frederick is not his son and therefore ineligible to inherit the title?    Why hasn't this been an issue?  We should at least get a flashback scene of Oliver and Susan arguing over this.

If I were writing this show, Oliver would have kept some kind of secret papers or diary.  The papers get revealed by Stupid Butler.  Now there is a crisis.  James is revealed as the real Lord Trenchard.  But he's gay and he knows he will never have an heir.  So he will disclaim the title and give it back to Frederick.  Ice is thawing.  During the course of the thawing, James confesses to Frederick that he is gay, and that he is being blackmailed by Bathhouse Guy.  Frederick pays the guy off and forces the guy to leave the country and never speak of this again.  Fences are mended.  Show ends with everyone happy.  Frederick and Clara work things out and she becomes pregnant with the future Lord Trenchard.  James ends up with Fletcher and they keep things secret.  Useless Sister is going to end up with Painter.

We shall see what happens, but I don't have much faith in the terrible writer of this show.

[Magnumfangirl]

This show is so slow and plodding!  And what's with the mysterious music?  There really is no mystery to the audience if they watched the original show.  

[chitowngirl]

No new episode this Sunday, 2/11

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 2/7/2024 at 6:31 PM, blackwing said:

I truly can't stand all the angst about the dad not liking him.  For all that the dad hated him, Frederick still inherited the title.  From this episode 4 we learned that Oliver died before Susan.  If Oliver hated Frederick that much, couldn't he have sent a deathbed letter to the newspapers informing them that Frederick is not his son and therefore ineligible to inherit the title?

Scandal. Even if Oliver were dead, it being publicly known his mother had an affair could only be embarrassing for James and might result in him being excluded from social circles, and Oliver wouldn't want that. He probably told James on his deathbed, though, since Clara sensed he knows more than he's saying. Maybe he wanted James to disinherit Frederick and James didn't go along with it. In which case, we'll hear about it in due time.

On 2/6/2024 at 2:58 PM, blackwing said:

So why then does he frequent a public bathhouse when he is a public figure in the community?

It seemed like it was the first time Fletcher had seen him there.

On 2/9/2024 at 3:21 PM, chitowngirl said:

No new episode this Sunday, 2/11

Thanks for letting us know!

[chitowngirl]

Episode 5:  As Clara's fascination with Stephen's world develops, she makes a bold decision that alarms Davison; James' private life finds him under threat; Frederick grows determined to become part of the Marquise's new venture.

[blackwing]

On 2/17/2024 at 2:36 PM, chitowngirl said:

Episode 5:  As Clara's fascination with Stephen's world develops, she makes a bold decision that alarms Davison; James' private life finds him under threat; Frederick grows determined to become part of the Marquise's new venture.

This episode was truly boring.  The plot didn't get advanced much at all.  Frederick is still an ass, he and Clara are still in the same place, James is being blackmailed, the sister is still interfering and annoying, the doctor is still creepy. 

Looks like Clara is headed towards an affair with the doctor, especially after the painter's painting creates a scandal.  He claimed he would change the face so people wouldn't know it was her, he certainly did not.  Frederick is going to be irate, saying that she is going to cost him business, and practically gift wrap her with a bow for Creepy Doctor.

[Magnumfangirl]

This is show is so dull that I'm mostly watching for Clara's wardrobe.  Her dresses are gorgeous!

Edited February 20 by Magnumfangirl

[blackwing]

It's very obvious that Julian Fellowes doesn't have much to do with this show besides slapping his name on it as producer (translation, paid for some of it and will get his share of profits in return).  The writing is truly awful.  The woman who is writing this show can't even do a pale imitation of a Fellowes show.  I dare say that I could write better scripts.

The only thing remotely Fellowes-ish about this episode was the wordless scenes  and music when the staff and guests were getting ready for the ball.  It was very Downton Abbey-like.

[maggiemae]

It is like the guy writing Yellowstone....get on to the next and forget about good writing.

[chitowngirl]

Episode 6: Emily confronts Clara about the painting, worried about the potential scandal for their family; Frederick moves forward with his investment in the silver mine, but Ross begins to grow suspicious of the Marquise.

[chitowngirl]

Things seem to be finally happening!!

[Clawdette]

I want to grab Clara by the shoulders and shout "Snap out of it!" I get that she's young and inexperienced in the world's ways, but that doesn't excuse disregarding the advice of three people who love her.  Wearing blinders has never been an attractive accessory.

[Drumpf1737]

omg this show is terrible. I despise the sister. why does she torment Nell?  Maybe it's Fellowes writing or just the way people communicated at the time but it's maddening that someone hasn't just told Clara to chill out.  If you don't know what the rift is between the brothers just stay out of it until you get more info. She's such a busybody. Ensuring all of her servants could read should have been her focus from the start.

And another thing: The costumes on this show are disappointing. Bridgerton and The Gilded Age have ginormous budgets so maybe I need to temper my expectations.

Edited February 26 by Drumpf1737

[blackwing]

13 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

omg this show is terrible. I despise the sister. why does she torment Nell?  Maybe it's Fellowes writing or just the way people communicated at the time but it's maddening that someone hasn't just told Clara to chill out.  If you don't know what the rift is between the brothers just stay out of it until you get more info. She's such a busybody. Ensuring all of her servants could read should have been her focus from the start.

Fellowes doesn't write this show.  It's some other woman, and she is truly terrible.  A Fellowes show will always have a few unlikeable characters.  But I find a good portion of characters on this woman's show to be extremely unlikeable.

Frederick is a dick.  He's in over his head in the business.  His servant/manager wants to invest personally in this sketchy venture (that nobody has seen since it's in Mexico) and he won't let him.  So the servant takes it upon himself to do some digging about the French lady and appears to have found out that she's a fraud.  Servant is going to end up saving his master, who doesn't deserve to be saved.

James is reaching out to Frederick to tell Frederick why their father hated Frederick so much.  It's an obvious explanation, and one that should make Frederick feel like he finally understands, and realise that he has been unfairly taking it out on James all these years.  Instead, Frederick says James is lying and storms out.

Lord Duke Old Guy is an ass.

Painter guy... I think I missed the scene where Clara confronted him about selling the painting and that he knew how reluctant she was to pose.  He said he would blur the features so no one would know it was her.  He did not.  He knew she wanted privacy and then he goes and sells the painting.  Where was the scene of her chewing him out and him apologising and promising to go back to the gallery to cancel the sale?  Why wasn't Clara more mad about this?  Oh but he's bohemian and needed the money, so all is forgiven?

Creepy doctor.  So clearly overstepping his boundaries, he knows it, and yet he continues to do it.  The Duke Old Guy fired him but will probably the Duchess will take him back.  Clara should drop him but she won't.  Why is so much time being spent on this Creepy Doctor?

A good majority of my hate is reserved for the sister.  She's sticking her nose everywhere and anywhere and absolutely none of it is here business.  She sees a painting of her sister and angrily makes it all about her, yelling at Clara that Clara didn't even stop to think about what the painting would do to HER.  Here's some news for you sweetie, no one gives two shits about you! 

She thinks she has this great love with James when he's gay and she doesn't know it.  She thinks it's her job to take care of Nell and apologise on the world's behalf for Nell's sorry lot in life.

Clara.... I think she's a kind person but she truly is a dim bulb.  The jerk husband is trying to be nice and reaching out to be cordial and wants her to go to lunch with him, and she won't even bend at all.  The painting was a disaster from the start.  Then she laments to French lady about it.  The next time, French lady has bought the painting.  Clara asks to destroy it and French lady says don't worry, no one will see it.  Yeah right.  French lady is going to use it for her own gain, perhaps to blackmail Frederick, when she wants.

James.  It's not like he suddenly discovered he is gay after going to that bathhouse.  Presumably he's known about it for some time.  Presumably he's been a vicar for his entire adult life.  So why is he so conflicted now all of a sudden where he's decided he doesn't deserve to live and is going to starve himself to death?

The footman who steals alcohol and the maid who can't read wearing Clara's old dress... why again should I care?

The butler having an affair?  Why should I care?

The writing on this show is abysmal.  Truly awful.  If I knew how bad it was, I would never have started this series.  At this point, I guess I am resigned to hate watch until the end.  Thankfully there's only two more episodes.

If I had my way, the doctor and the artist's commune would be swallowed by a sinkhole (maybe the street smart single mom can survive).  The sister and the mom would be swallowed by a sinkhole.  Duke Old Guy would be swallowed by a sinkhole.  French Lady and the incredibly boring business storyline would be swallowed by a sinkhole.  Stupid butler would be swallowed by a sinkhole.

Frederick gets cheated by French Lady and is about to lose all his money.  But somehow James finds out the truth about her and saves Frederick's money and reputation.  James is the rightful Lord Trenchard but he doesn't want the title, he agrees to let Frederick have it.  Frederick continues to be an ass.  Clara leaves Frederick and sets herself up as a wealthy divorcee.  She lives with Davison and Fletcher.  James comes by regularly for tea.

[AllyB]

I know Fellows didn't actually write this but it's very weird that this show has a major storyline almost identical to one that was just a major storyline on The Gilded Age. And as bad as The Gilded Age is in a lot fo ways, it was still very superior in every way, to this.

[BusyOctober]

ZZzzzz…why am I still watching this? 

I dislike so much about this show.  The acting, the story, the characters, the pacing, the dialog, the leading men’s anachronistic hair…so much bug me. I can’t stand the sister, the Marquees, Frederick, the Vicar…I’d rather have a full time series about the couple with the epileptic son (see? I don’t even know the names of the few characters I am mildly interested in).

Really hoping  <something> happens soon that doesn’t make yawn, forget who’s who, or makes me say uh, why did I waste another 40 minutes this week?

 

[chitowngirl]

Episode 7: Rumors about Clara and Stephen swirl around Belgravia; it feels like only a matter of time until they reach Frederick; Ross learns some information about the Marquise and sees an opportunity.

[blackwing]

Ugh.  The woman who writes this show should be banned from ever writing any TV show ever again.

This episode was just terrible.  It's like she thought "only two episodes left, let's bring some of these plots to a screeching halt".

When did Ross become a central character on this show?  I couldn't care less about him.  So he found out that Frederick was scammed by French lady, as he predicted.  So his response was to take as much money as he could and run?  Why?  Looks like he is going to be killed by French servant so whatever.

I despise the creepy doctor but what a weird ending to his story.  I would have liked to have seen Clara dump him outright, but instead we need the excuse that he was Nell's old boyfriend.  I really hope she doesn't go running back to him in the final episode.

Don't really understand who was passing notes to who.  The wife caught the thieving footman so he gave her info about the stupid butler.  The stupid butler was writing to the French lady and facilitated her scam of Frederick and was using the maid who can't read to do so?  The wife intercepted the note but didn't say anything?  Whatever, and who cares.

I still hate the sister, still making everything about herself.  The way she just gazes into James' eyes.  I really want a scene where he tells her his secret and then she expires from a broken heart.

So now what?  Clara and Davidson are in some strange city (Hull?) and bound for parts unknown.  I hope Ross gave them some money before he was killed.

I wish I could have told myself a few weeks ago to skip this series entirely.  The only character I now find truly likeable is Davidson.

[Clawdette]

My major concern in the episode was that Clara and Davidson wouldn't take Ross' satchel when they fled.  They need the money!  Plus, it would help save Frederick, and I have some sympathy for him despite everything.

[AllyB]

There is just the one episode left right? It's the only reason I'll keep watching (that and the general lack of new shows due to the strikes). I was gutted that episode six wasn't the final one because I'm just sick of it and want it to be over. It's not even enjoyably, campy bad. It's just bad, bad and while the actors are all probably fine, none of them gives a performance that elevates the content.

At least in the original series there was the Tamsin Grieg/Paul Ritter reunion that made me smile to think about a lovely bit of squirrel.

[blackwing]

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

There is just the one episode left right? It's the only reason I'll keep watching (that and the general lack of new shows due to the strikes). I was gutted that episode six wasn't the final one because I'm just sick of it and want it to be over. It's not even enjoyably, campy bad. It's just bad, bad and while the actors are all probably fine, none of them gives a performance that elevates the content.

I'm tired of this show too.  I would not at all be surprised if the storylines don't get wrapped up next week.  I can easily see this hack writer assuming that the show will get a second season and setting up more plots.

The Stupid Sister was eavesdropping so she knows that Frederick is not the son of Oliver Trenchard and that James is the rightful Lord Trenchard.  I'm sure she will take it upon herself to restore the title to James.  She's already dreaming of being Lady Trenchard and stuffing that into Clara's face.  James would feel pressure to marry and produce an heir.  It would be a sham marriage, Stupid Sister would probably go and get herself impregnated (probably by Creepy Doctor) but then Clara or Davidson would find out.

Even if this show somehow gets renewed for a second season, I most certainly hope that I would not return.  It's hard to enjoy a show when so many of the characters are so unlikeable.

[chitowngirl]

Episode 8: As Frederick grieves the loss of Clara, Enright receives a letter that pushes Frederick to confront his past; Clara and Davison adapt to life in the North, as Clara grapples with happy memories of home.

Season finale (Series finale?)

[AllyB]

So Clara went back to Fredrick once she heard he'd inherited some money. Romantic!

My main question through this episode was why it was airing in late winter/spring if was to end at Christmas on a big snowy scene. I'm assuming it must have been intended to start in October and end in December but it got pushed back for some reason.

[blackwing]

For as much as I've been hating on this series, I actually enjoyed this episode.  It seemed like classic Fellowes, even though Fellowes seems to have had little to do with this series.

After they surprise re-introduced John Bellasis, I was having some trouble with the familial relationships, so I sketched out the trees.  The elder Trenchards were parents to Oliver and Sophia.  The elder Bellasis / Brockenhursts were parents to Edmund and Stephen.  Edmund and Sophia got together and she got pregnant.  He died in the war.  She gave birth to a son and then died.  The son became Charles Pope and it was revealed at the end of the original series that Edmund and Sophia had gotten married before he died, and thus Charles Pope was legitimate.

Oliver and Susan were married.  Susan had an affair with John Bellasis, son of Stephen and who always assumed he was going to be Earl of Brockenhurt.  That affair resulted in Frederick.  At some point, elder Trenchard was made some kind of lord (I don't think they ever revealed the actual title).  Frederick inherited that title.  Oliver and Susan had a child James.  It was revealed in this episode that James isn't a Trenchard either, his biological father was one of the groundskeepers or something like that.

When learning that John Bellasis is Frederick's biological father, James said "he's the one that tried to kill our cousin".  That is a clear reference to Charles Pope.  I really wish they had discussed him more.  Presumably he is the current Earl of Brockenhurst.  Why couldn't we have had a cameo from him?

7 hours ago, AllyB said:

So Clara went back to Fredrick once she heard he'd inherited some money. Romantic!

I think it seemed obvious that Clara didn't care about money at all, if she did then she never would have left him in the first place.  Her chief concern was that after she left Frederick that he would cut off the allowance that he was giving her sister and mother.  She didn't care about money for herself.

My question is that house in Eaton Square must have cost a ton to maintain.  If Frederick lost all his money to the Marquise, how was he affording it?  He didn't seem to have any other sources of income.  The only assets they had were the house in Eaton Square and a house in Glanville.  It appears that he dismissed all the servants except for Enright and Fletcher.  What happened to Mrs. Enright?  She must have left Enright after he got fired.  The maid who was learning how to read and the footman who stole wine also must have been let go.

Frederick and James did seem to have contact with Charles Pope/Bellasis so I wonder if Frederick couldn't have asked him for financial assistance or a loan.  Would have been nice to have gotten a line that Charles helped him out.

After Frederick sold the Eaton Square house they must have had more money, but I'm wondering how he managed to live without any source of income for several months.  James commented that he inherited some money from John Bellasis but gave it all to the church.

We didn't have to see the creepy doctor.  I assume that Frederick's servant was killed by the Marquise's servant, so no need to see or mention him again.

The only plotline that didn't really get resolved was James being gay.  He told Emily he is "married to God" and introduced her to a potential suitor, so I guess being the 1880s (?) his secret is probably never going to be openly revealed.

The last scene seemed to me to be a series finale.  If this show somehow comes back for a second season, I vow not to watch unless some major changes are made, starting with the writing staff.

[norcalgal]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

It was revealed in this episode that James isn't a Trenchard either, his biological father was one of the groundskeepers or something like that.

Aaaah, since my free trial to MGM+ ended, I've only kept up on this show via this forum.  OK, now it makes sense how Susan and Oliver had a second child, as James was not actually Oliver's son. It just didn't make sense to me given the events of the first Belgravia series (which I now own on DVD) that Oliver could sire a child. 

What I still don't understand is - not having watched this series since my trial ended at episode 2 - why Oliver seemed to make James his favorite. Did Oliver not know that James is not his bio child?  (We've known since Belgravia 1.0 that Oliver knows he's not Frederick's bio dad.)

[blackwing]

14 minutes ago, norcalgal said:

Aaaah, since my free trial to MGM+ ended, I've only kept up on this show via this forum.  OK, now it makes sense how Susan and Oliver had a second child, as James was not actually Oliver's son. It just didn't make sense to me given the events of the first Belgravia series (which I now own on DVD) that Oliver could sire a child. 

What I still don't understand is - not having watched this series since my trial ended at episode 2 - why Oliver seemed to make James his favorite. Did Oliver not know that James is not his bio child?  (We've known since Belgravia 1.0 that Oliver knows he's not Frederick's bio dad.)

Oliver assumed James was his child and that's why he loved him and treated Frederick so poorly.  I should note that it wasn't 100% confirmed that James isn't his son.  John Belassis basically told Frederick and James that Susan slept around a lot and that he wouldn't be surprised if James was the product of another affair.  Or something like that. 

Then later, Frederick and James were talking, and the subject came up.  James said something about how he recalls there was a footman (or groundskeeper or something, but definitely a servant) was always hanging around their mother.  So James seemed to assume and accept that he isn't Oliver's son either.  Without DNA testing or any servants still alive who could confirm, it can't be said conclusively, but both Trenchard sons seemed to agree that it was the most likely explanation.

Edited March 11 by blackwing