S17.E10: Breaking Up the Party

[Yeah No]

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The couples meet up for a potluck dinner, but the fun is quickly dampened by some explosive news; Dr. Pia visits the couples just in the nick of time as new challenges present themselves.

Note:  This thread replaces the original one that was lost in the site update.  Fortunately it looked like it only had one or two posts before it happened.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Yeah No

[JenE4]

I know people have mixed feelings on the Afterparty show, but this one cannot be missed! Truly, if you sat through the inane chatter of the others, this one was nonstop tea spilling!!l Cameron and Brennan came on for I think the first time—in addition to Lauren—and they are here to tell you what they’ve been bottling up this whole series. Brennan admits that what has turned him off completely from Emily is finding out she’s been ghosted by all men, has lots of one night stands, and is a party girl at 30 years old. Do, in short, exactly what we all thought. I can’t even summarize everything that Cameron said, but my man was bitter and here to set the record straight. Lauren served as to add in what Clare has been telling the ladies off camera, which was the complete opposite of what Cam was saying, so one the other is a complete liar, seemingly Clare. He said how off camera she was the one saying she had no connection and wanted to move out, and every time they got on camera she would not only say the complete opposite but take his words and feelings as her own to make it seem like she was the one being vulnerable. He was saying she’s exactly his type and he’s very attracted to her, but she was making up all kinds of stuff to tell the ladies he wasnt, like saying—according to Lauren—that he said he thinks her butt is too big and if they tried to have sex he wouldn’t even cum. There was beeping and all kinds of shocked reactions about like, are we on TV right now?! Brennan also confirmed that Cam was always telling the guys he was attracted to Clare. Cam also said that she told him she was only attracted to well-built black men, but he knew that wasn’t true because every guy she dated was white. Anyway, y’all, it was a wild ride.

[Yeah No]

@JenE4 I was just writing about that Afterparty when your post came in!  Thanks for saving me the trouble of providing the synopsis.  If there was ever any Afterparty to watch, this one was it!  I have to say that based on this I'm now beginning to doubt Clare's version of what went down between her and Cam.  Cam seems really sincere.  Also, if Lauren is skeptical about Clare's version that puts more credence in what he's saying. 

Another thing is that Clare might be motivated by protecting her professional reputation among her peers so she might be trying to make herself look better on camera than she thinks she would look if she were honest.  But how stupid of her not to know that Cam might call her out on her BS!  She is making herself look like an unprincipled whacko, unfortunately.  Either she or Cam is the whacko here and right now I'm leaning toward her being the one.

[Retired at last]

I have never liked Clare, past the first episode, but now I truly detest her. She has that smug facial expression and is completely cold to Cam. I am so glad he is taking care of himself and he is now seeing exactly who he was matched with. She is not the least bit attracted to him, which is a shame. I have NO idea what he finds so appealing and likable about her. She is cruel to him. It was interesting that they both took off their rings.

I do have a request for the show - STOP BRINGING IN ORION AND LAUREN!!!! They are done, we all know they are done, so stop having them in group activities where they suck the life out of the room. Lauren, you can't be that upset about losing that man, so stop crying about it. It's good that they are going to try to bring back that Michael to add drama to the rest of the season (she said sarcastically). At least we won't have to look at both Orion and Michael's weird hairstyles, if they get Orion off.

I am glad that Brennan finally said out loud what he refused to say to Emily, and, yes, we were all exactly right. I did think it was funny when Dr. Pia made a comment about the face she was making and Brennan just said that's how she always does (which goes to show that I am not the only one distracted by her constant strange facial expressions). And, he is already regretting his vow that there will not be a divorce.

It appears to me that Becca and Austin is the only couple who seem to enjoy being with each other, but, I still think that he is regretting this choice. If he hasn't felt ready to sleep with her yet, he is not interested in her. I don't know what "else" they are going to try, but I am sure we will hear about it. They may be the only couple to come close to having sex this season. Becca is going to have her heart broken, thanks, experts.

[Yeah No]

3 minutes ago, Retired at last said:

I am glad that Brennan finally said out loud what he refused to say to Emily, and, yes, we were all exactly right. I did think it was funny when Dr. Pia made a comment about the face she was making and Brennan just said that's how she always does (which goes to show that I am not the only one distracted by her constant strange facial expressions). And, he is already regretting his vow that there will not be a divorce.

Brennan is another really STUPID person.  I mean does he really think he's protecting anyone's feelings with the way he was acting?  And how freaking OBVIOUS was it to the entire world?  I'm glad he was called out on that and told it was even more hurtful than if he were honest about it.  I think it was Lauren who pointed that out.  I think he just didn't want to look like "the bad guy" so I call BS on him acting like he's not saying the truth to protect Emily's feelings.

[Crashcourse]

I think Austin might be hesitant to have sex with Becca because of her medical issues.  It's unfortunate, because they do seem to like each other.

[Lindz]

"Won't help or do damage"? WTF?!!! Of course that's what her expression means! What was he going to say to stop her from saying she was frustrated??? Idk why DP said it was protective, it seemed dismissive to me. What was he saying to be respectful & that's his wife for if he doesn't care? Just to say it? 🤨 Like, he doesn't really care about her in that way, it's a general care he'd have for anyone? He's making it so complicated! How can they solve the problem if he won't say what the problem is?!! Oh right. He doesn't want to solve the problem. 🤦‍♂️ Does he want their marriage to work out? No. So what's he there for? DP should've asked him that. I saw this the other day & it really stuck with me, "you can't say the wrong thing to the right person." Sounds wonderful. Now, if it's true, idk. I hope so. 🤷‍♀️ It was funny that he asked Lauren if she felt Orion gave up too soon as if he hasn't quit. 🧐 Glad to see they didn't meet one-on-one, but why were they sitting beside each other? Tricky editors! Lauren gets too emotional, showing his control. & It looks like they do meet up one-on-one for him to do what? Lead her on? LET IT GO! HE MADE HIS CHOICE!

Edited December 23, 2023 by Lindz

[Elizzikra]

2 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Brennan is another really STUPID person.  I mean does he really think he's protecting anyone's feelings with the way he was acting?  And how freaking OBVIOUS was it to the entire world?  I'm glad he was called out on that and told it was even more hurtful than if he were honest about it.  I think it was Lauren who pointed that out.  I think he just didn't want to look like "the bad guy" so I call BS on him acting like he's not saying the truth to protect Emily's feelings.

I just don’t understand why everyone is pushing Brennan to explain how he could possibly not be attracted to Emily. I see plenty of objectively attractive people and I don’t really want to have sex with any of them. There’s no particular specific reason, just “no spark.” I get that Brennan didn’t like that Emily was a party girl and had a bunch of one-night stands. Presumably the one night stands will stop now that she is married and he could at least say something like “I’m really uncomfortable with your drinking to excess and then such public displays of affection” or something like that. It would be honest and non-judgmental. 

[Lindz]

Shocking to see that clip of Cam asking Clare if she saw a future with him. It's so soon! Geez! It's like, once he saw someone else quit, he latched onto that idea. I really want to know why he's getting attached. Based on what? Being around her? What was he going to say about "head over heels" when she cut him off? Her discomfort is obvious when he puts her on the spot about the future. I wish it was because she's unsure, but it looks like it's because she knows she's a "no." Like she's trying to coast through. He sounded absurd with DP talking about exhausting ALL options when they've done a whole lot of NOTHING. They disagree on how they'd raise their children, HOWSO?!!! WHAT SPECIFICS HAVE THEY DISCUSSED??? On another note, WHY would he think his father would take him being MAFS negatively???

[Elizzikra]

3 minutes ago, Lindz said:

Shocking to see that clip of Cam asking Clare if she saw a future with him. It's so soon! Geez! It's like, once he saw someone else quit, he latched onto that idea. I really want to know why he's getting attached. Based on what? Being around her? What was he going to say about "head over heels" when she cut him off? Her discomfort is obvious when he puts her on the spot about the future. I wish it was because she's unsure, but it looks like it's because she knows she's a "no." Like she's trying to coast through. He sounded absurd with DP talking about exhausting ALL options when they've done a whole lot of NOTHING. They disagree on how they'd raise their children, HOWSO?!!! WHAT SPECIFICS HAVE THEY DISCUSSED??? On another note, WHY would he think his father would take him being MAFS negatively???

She is religious and he is not. That, thus far, seems to be the primary difference in how they would raise their children.

A lot of parents see going on MAFS as a negative thing. Usually there is at least one set parents per season who are pretty negative about it. In fact, Cameron’s “American family” wasn’t too pleased, if I recall correctly.

[Yeah No]

31 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

I just don’t understand why everyone is pushing Brennan to explain how he could possibly not be attracted to Emily. I see plenty of objectively attractive people and I don’t really want to have sex with any of them. There’s no particular specific reason, just “no spark.” I get that Brennan didn’t like that Emily was a party girl and had a bunch of one-night stands. Presumably the one night stands will stop now that she is married and he could at least say something like “I’m really uncomfortable with your drinking to excess and then such public displays of affection” or something like that. It would be honest and non-judgmental. 

Exactly!  Brennan has zero relationship communication skills.  He could very diplomatically say that he isn't into drinking or the party scene, in fact he's a homebody (or whatever)  so he foresees a big lifestyle clash between them.  

[Maximadc]

Brennan could be protecting Emily’s professional reputation by not disclosing her drinking habits. 
I would be absolutely insulted if some too tight suit therapist recommended me to start therapy while the person next to me clearly needed one in additional to a good rehab and AA

[Yeah No]

21 minutes ago, Maximadc said:

Brennan could be protecting Emily’s professional reputation by not disclosing her drinking habits. 

That might be plausible if this were not a TV show and Emily had not allowed herself to be filmed indulging in her wild lifestyle for all the world to see at the bachelorette party and then told Brennan how she did belly shots off of all the male strippers too.  If she was that concerned about her reputation she would never have done and said all that on camera.   I'm also sure it's given Brennan the impression that she's not ready to settle down.

Edited December 23, 2023 by Yeah No

[Elizzikra]

Quote

while the person next to me clearly needed one in additional to a good rehab and AA

I think this is a big leap, to say that Emily is an alcoholic and in need of rehab. She likes to drink and obviously drinks to excess on some occasions but plenty of people do this that aren't addicted. I do think that Brennan doesn't like how Emily acts when she is drinking; she's a "woohoo!" kind of girl and I am guessing gets very affectionate in public (she said she was making out with Brennan the night they went drinking with the rest of the cast during the honeymoon). That's a valid concern for Brennan but that still doesn't make her an alcoholic.

[Empress1]

6 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I just don’t understand why everyone is pushing Brennan to explain how he could possibly not be attracted to Emily. I see plenty of objectively attractive people and I don’t really want to have sex with any of them. There’s no particular specific reason, just “no spark.”

Also, is that really information she wants? Does she (or anyone) really want to hear “your eyes are close together” or “your breasts are too small” or “I think you’re too fat/too thin” or anything else about someone’s physical characteristics they don’t like? We do it on these boards but IRL I have never told a man expressly why I wasn’t physically attracted to him. Brennan is right - it’s not nice. I don’t think it would be useful for Emily to hear that.

8 hours ago, JenE4 said:

I know people have mixed feelings on the Afterparty show, but this one cannot be missed! Truly, if you sat through the inane chatter of the others, this one was nonstop tea spilling!!l Cameron and Brennan came on for I think the first time—in addition to Lauren—and they are here to tell you what they’ve been bottling up this whole series. Brennan admits that what has turned him off completely from Emily is finding out she’s been ghosted by all men, has lots of one night stands, and is a party girl at 30 years old. Do, in short, exactly what we all thought. I can’t even summarize everything that Cameron said, but my man was bitter and here to set the record straight. Lauren served as to add in what Clare has been telling the ladies off camera, which was the complete opposite of what Cam was saying, so one the other is a complete liar, seemingly Clare. He said how off camera she was the one saying she had no connection and wanted to move out, and every time they got on camera she would not only say the complete opposite but take his words and feelings as her own to make it seem like she was the one being vulnerable. He was saying she’s exactly his type and he’s very attracted to her, but she was making up all kinds of stuff to tell the ladies he wasnt, like saying—according to Lauren—that he said he thinks her butt is too big and if they tried to have sex he wouldn’t even cum. There was beeping and all kinds of shocked reactions about like, are we on TV right now?! Brennan also confirmed that Cam was always telling the guys he was attracted to Clare. Cam also said that she told him she was only attracted to well-built black men, but he knew that wasn’t true because every guy she dated was white. Anyway, y’all, it was a wild ride.

Okay, this, I’ll watch. Drag her, Cameron!

[Yeah No]

8 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Also, is that really information she wants? Does she (or anyone) really want to hear “your eyes are close together” or “your breasts are too small” or “I think you’re too fat/too thin” or anything else about someone’s physical characteristics they don’t like? We do it on these boards but IRL I have never told a man expressly why I wasn’t physically attracted to him. Brennan is right - it’s not nice. I don’t think it would be useful for Emily to hear that.

I've said this before, but I don't think he'd have a problem being physically attracted to her if she didn't turn him off in other ways.  And now because of what he revealed in this episode we have a better idea of what those other ways are.  It's that he doesn't think she's ready to settle down based on what she's revealed about her partying lifestyle.  In my past I can remember meeting very good looking guys in bars that turned me way off when I found out they lived a partying lifestyle.  It can actually make one find the person physically repulsive.  That's my take on it, anyway.

[Retired at last]

6 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Exactly!  Brennan has zero relationship communication skills.  He could very diplomatically say that he isn't into drinking or the party scene, in fact he's a homebody (or whatever)  so he foresees a big lifestyle clash between them.  

Exactly. Then, all she would have to say is that she would be happy to skip the partying by herself, because she will be with him. I get it that he doesn't seem happy with her past and that he thinks that 30 is a bit old to be the life of the party (is it, really?), but if she can stop walking on eggshells to avoid any conflict, they MAY actually have a lot of things in common. But, that is not going to happen because he is already checked out.

36 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I don’t think it would be useful for Emily to hear that.

But, she already knows that. And, if he tells her it is because of her past (and maybe the bizarre faces she makes and her horrible hygeine/extensions), it would be very hard to hear and hard for him to say, but if things aren't going to work out with them, it could help her understand why some of her past relationships didn't work.

ETA- she can't change her past, but she could start taking care of her hair and working on the bizarre faces if she understands that those things lead men to disappear. I would think that most men wouldn't mind a quickie with her, but not for real relationships, and no one is attracted to desperation.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Retired at last

[Lindz]

What a cry fest the group meet became! Such a downer. Lauren went through sadness, then anger, & then called Orion out for gaslighting. AH! That would've been the perfect opportunity to say that's why they couldn't work out. CLOSE THE DOOR!!! 🤷‍♀️ Not Cam & Clare patting themselves on the back for being "honest" then not being able to discuss whether they saw a future together, which I think is premature when they haven't even figured out how to progress to where they both want to be. They feel they're better than Austin & Becca in that area for seemingly tackling "hard topics," when they haven't done so successfully. 🤨

[princelina]

10 hours ago, JenE4 said:

 I can’t even summarize everything that Cameron said, but my man was bitter and here to set the record straight. Lauren served as to add in what Clare has been telling the ladies off camera, which was the complete opposite of what Cam was saying, so one the other is a complete liar, seemingly Clare. 

She does seem like a complete liar based on what he said, and I like him better than her so I'd like to believe him.  Except for the fact that at this point I think he's exposed himself as a big fat liar, so I'm giving him the side-eye.  He told her at the wedding that they'd go back to New Zealand to do a second wedding for his family and she loved that.  Then he tells her friends his dad is on his deathbed.  Then he "clears it up" the next ep by saying that his dad has been chronically ill for many years so he's become accustomed to it.  But "chronically ill for many years" and "on his deathbed" are entirely different things.  As is "going to NZ to have a second wedding his family can attend" when his parents are divorced and his dad is chronically ill/on his deathbed.  Frankly I can see him telling her he wouldn't be able to cum before I can see her making that story up.  So as much as I dislike her, my instincts against big fat liars is leaning towards he's the one.  I get the point of the Afterparty separating the couples but in this case I'd like to see them together answering questions to see what the have to say in front of each other!

 

8 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I just don’t understand why everyone is pushing Brennan to explain how he could possibly not be attracted to Emily. I see plenty of objectively attractive people and I don’t really want to have sex with any of them. There’s no particular specific reason, just “no spark.” I get that Brennan didn’t like that Emily was a party girl and had a bunch of one-night stands. Presumably the one night stands will stop now that she is married and he could at least say something like “I’m really uncomfortable with your drinking to excess and then such public displays of affection” or something like that. It would be honest and non-judgmental. 

First I'd like to say Brava to Keisha for getting that out of him when no one else could! 😄. But what he said was not that she "had a bunch of one night stands" but that she "loved one night stands" - now she may have actually said that, or it may be his perception, which makes a difference.  I think he's afraid to say it for fear of being charged with "slut shaming" - but I said in the first episode that an applicant who talks about how they love going out and getting drunk with friends should NOT be considered ready for marriage by the "experts" so I wouldn't blame him for that.

 

10 hours ago, Retired at last said:

At least we won't have to look at both Orion and Michael's weird hairstyles, if they get Orion off.

Ahahahahahahahahahaha!  Or listen to both of their blathering! 😂😂😂

[TwirlyGirly]

6 hours ago, Maximadc said:

I would be absolutely insulted if some too tight suit therapist recommended me to start therapy while the person next to me clearly needed one in additional to a good rehab and AA. 

I don't think that's the problem.

When Brennan said he couldn't say what emotion he was feeling because he wasn't feeling any emotion, my jaw dropped. Human beings are always feeling something — except when dead asleep, or just dead.

Did you know there are 3000 words in the English language that describe feelings? Pick one, Brennan. 

If someone says they're not feeling anything, therapy is indicated — because they are feeling something — they're just refusing to acknowledge it. Over time, that can have a negative impact on their mental health. 

After DP left Emily brought up therapy again. Brennan made it clear he didn't understand why DP recommended he go to therapy. In his discussion with Emily, he said "I don't know why I need therapy to explain [why I'm not sexually attracted to you] yet."

Which had absolutely nothing to do with the reason DP suggested therapy.

I think Brennan's opinion of the type of people who need therapy is similar to Emily Gilmore's (Gilmore Girls S2/E18) — and that's why he doesn't want to go:

"Yes, disturbed people, deviants, people with multiple personalities who see things and hear talking to them and roam the streets talking to themselves and licking parking meters."

[princelina]

12 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

After DP left Emily brought up therapy again. Brennan made it clear he didn't understand why DP recommended he go to therapy. I

Oh please - call her "Doctor Pia" - it sounds so much more professional! 🤣

[Elizzikra]

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her horrible hygeine/extensions

I don't have any reason to think Emily has poor hygiene. Her extensions were horrible on the honeymoon and she definitely wasn't taking care of them - but they are a real pain in the ass to care for properly. She could have otherwise perfect hygiene and still have ratty extensions.

[Yeah No]

4 hours ago, princelina said:

She does seem like a complete liar based on what he said, and I like him better than her so I'd like to believe him.  Except for the fact that at this point I think he's exposed himself as a big fat liar, so I'm giving him the side-eye.  He told her at the wedding that they'd go back to New Zealand to do a second wedding for his family and she loved that.  Then he tells her friends his dad is on his deathbed.  Then he "clears it up" the next ep by saying that his dad has been chronically ill for many years so he's become accustomed to it.  But "chronically ill for many years" and "on his deathbed" are entirely different things.  As is "going to NZ to have a second wedding his family can attend" when his parents are divorced and his dad is chronically ill/on his deathbed.  Frankly I can see him telling her he wouldn't be able to cum before I can see her making that story up.  So as much as I dislike her, my instincts against big fat liars is leaning towards he's the one.  I get the point of the Afterparty separating the couples but in this case I'd like to see them together answering questions to see what the have to say in front of each other!

Yes, true, there are as many big reasons not to trust Cam at his word about Clare and vice versa.  Perhaps they are both lying or attempting to mislead the audience to varying degrees.  I think if anything she is mostly guilty of  exaggeration based on her honest misperception of the situation while what he's said would just be an outright lie, which would arguably be worse.  I had the same thought about the "deathbed" comment.  Why would he even say that if his father is in no immediate danger of dying, especially in front of other people and the TV audience?  It felt like he was intentionally trying to sabotage the situation by dropping a bomb on it.  I even doubt his sincerity in explaining away that comment.

4 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

I don't think that's the problem.

When Brennan said he couldn't say what emotion he was feeling because he wasn't feeling any emotion, my jaw dropped. Human beings are always feeling something — except when dead asleep, or just dead.

Did you know there are 3000 words in the English language that describe feelings? Pick one, Brennan. 

If someone says they're not feeling anything, therapy is indicated — because they are feeling something — they're just refusing to acknowledge it. Over time, that can have a negative impact on their mental health. 

After DP left Emily brought up therapy again. Brennan made it clear he didn't understand why DP recommended he go to therapy. In his discussion with Emily, he said "I don't know why I need therapy to explain [why I'm not sexually attracted to you] yet."

Which had absolutely nothing to do with the reason DP suggested therapy.

I think Brennan's opinion of the type of people who need therapy is similar to Emily Gilmore's (Gilmore Girls S2/E18) — and that's why he doesn't want to go:

"Yes, disturbed people, deviants, people with multiple personalities who see things and hear talking to them and roam the streets talking to themselves and licking parking meters."

I hear you.  I think Dr. Pia didn't articulate her reasons for suggesting therapy that well to Brennan, though.  I would have said something more like, "Well then, if you don't have feelings when you probably should or have that much difficulty recognizing and admitting to feelings you do have, perhaps you should enter therapy to resolve that issue apart from this situation."

I don't know if I think he's a person that thinks therapy is only for disturbed people and deviants, but I do think he was offended at being the one told he needed therapy when he probably thinks Emily needs it more than he does.  And I can kind of understand that to some degree.  And I do think Dr. Pia was putting the focus on him as the cause of their problems when he probably sees it as the other way around.  But a therapist can only work with what you give them and if he's going to sit there like a stone and deny he has feelings he's going to set himself up for looking like the person responsible for all their problems and the therapist is going to proceed on that basis.  So he kind of brought it on himself.  If you want my general opinion in a nutshell about all of the above, I think they're all idiots, LOL.

[Lindz]

Not Lauren being the queen of tmi telling the group ALL their business, including Orion slut shaming her for having sex 2 months prior. So MESSY & UNCOMFORTABLE!!! 😬

[Retired at last]

I thought that the "deathbed" comment was abrupt and intentionally defensive, but Cam was about to be subjected to meeting/being grilled by a bunch of Emily's fellow therapists-in-training friends and he probably was not too thrilled about that and was on edge. As far as the wedding in NZ goes, if his dad was just chronically ill, he might be able to attend his son's wedding if they had it there and, even though divorced, both parents might attend, so I don't fault him with that comment. I still like/believe him way more than I do her. She has never been interested in him and she can't fake it. And, I also believe him when he was saying some of the things she says to him - off-camera. The fact that they BOTH took off their wedding rings pretty much says that they are done, and they know it.

[Jodyj]

I also think he didn't tell his father because he wanted to make sure the wedding went well first. That if there were yes's on decision day, they would have had the wedding in NZ. But why get his hopes up and then smash them when everything crashed and burned. 

[Elizzikra]

Quote

As far as the wedding in NZ goes, if his dad was just chronically ill, he might be able to attend his son's wedding if they had it there and, even though divorced, both parents might attend, so I don't fault him with that comment. 

I do. It was intentionally misleading. It sounded like "yeah, my parents know but just couldn't make the trip" and not "yeah, my parents know and like most of the parents of the show's cast, they think I'm nuts" or "yeah, I didn't tell them." While it's true that he might have been hoping that the marriage would go well and they'd have a later wedding in NZ, that's not what that comment on their wedding day in response to "is your family here?" meant. And he's had plenty of time to circle back around and tell her more of the truth. He has chosen not to,

I don't really like either one of them, honestly, so I don't really have a dog in that fight. I don't necessarily dislike them either - they are just sort of "meh" for me. They both have some pretty sad and serious stuff in their pasts and I think they could be supportive to one another if they could actually communicate with each other, but they don't really do that well and they aren't getting any better.

[Lindz]

Instead of asking how they feel about their spouse, they should be asking how they feel about the marriage/situation, how they feel about where they're at, how they plan on getting to where they want to be? How do they want to feel? They don't know what they're doing. Isn't there a manual? Marriage Building for Strangers? 😅

[SabineElisabeth]

Brennan kept trying to clarify why he disagrees with Dr. Pia's assertion he needs therapy, but Emily seemed to miss the nuance completely.   Specifically, Brennan said he understood Dr. Pia to be saying he needs therapy because he has difficulty identifying / being "in touch" with his feelings generally, leading to an inability to be "vulnerable" and discuss his feelings with Emily. However, Brennan tried more than once to point out that in fact, he has lots of feelings in the general sense of the word;  what he doesn't have are feelings for Emily.  And the latter, at least in his estimation, doesn't seem to require therapy.

[Starlight925]

Brennan was trying to spare Emily's feelings.  He didn't want to say that he just isn't into her, while she's sitting next to him.

What Dr. Pia should have picked up on is that Brennan needed to have a talk with her alone, without Emily present, so that he could fully express his lack of desire for Emily, and Dr. Pia could then guide him as to how to express that to Emily in a kind way.

Instead, Dr. Pia and Brennan almost got into a fist fight, lol.

Looks like our favorite couple, Austen & Becca, are headed for the divorce pile.  His lack of desire for intimacy with her, coupled with her extreme desire for intimacy with him, is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Starlight925 said:

His lack of desire for intimacy with her, coupled with her extreme desire for intimacy with him, is a recipe for disaster.

Becca’s “oh word?!” face when Austin said he was open to doing “anything but” cracked me completely up.

[SummerDreams]

On 12/23/2023 at 6:14 PM, Retired at last said:

If he hasn't felt ready to sleep with her yet, he is not interested in her.

I wanted to comment on this because I felt this is the way Becca and everyone else are thinking. We use to say that men don't have emotions and they separate sex from love and they just want one thing etc but here is a man who says he wants to have some feelings before sex and we just disregard his opinion and blame him for lying and hiding the fact that he doesn't want to ever sleep with her. I mean, I have noticed the way he is looking at her and, unless he is a good actor, I have seen pure love and concern in his eyes. So maybe we should just believe him when he says that he needs time? He even said that his past gfs also had a problem with that.

[Yeah No]

1 hour ago, SummerDreams said:

I wanted to comment on this because I felt this is the way Becca and everyone else are thinking. We use to say that men don't have emotions and they separate sex from love and they just want one thing etc but here is a man who says he wants to have some feelings before sex and we just disregard his opinion and blame him for lying and hiding the fact that he doesn't want to ever sleep with her. I mean, I have noticed the way he is looking at her and, unless he is a good actor, I have seen pure love and concern in his eyes. So maybe we should just believe him when he says that he needs time? He even said that his past gfs also had a problem with that.

I think Austin really likes Becca and may even be falling in love with her, but I don't think he's sure she's "the one" for him for the long haul, and I think the difference between this and any typical situation is that he is already married to her and so wants to be sure he's not just engaging in a more casual dating type of relationship with her before he has sex with her.  First of all, he's decent enough not to want to potentially lead her on, but he also wouldn't want to be that guy that has sex with a woman that wants their relationship (and marriage) to be permanent if perhaps he's not yet sure he wants it to be permanent. 

Also, many men (not necessarily Austin) might find it easier to have sex with a woman in a casual dating relationship because there isn't the same level of expectation of commitment that goes along with marriage.  Being married to her before being sure about her would make any decent guy put the brakes on sex for all the reasons above.  So my opinion is that if Austin doesn't decide he's in it for the long haul with Becca before decision day they might not have sex by then.  He may decide to give the relationship more time on decision day, though.  I can see that happening.  As far as if they'll end up sticking it out, it's anyone's guess right now.

[Yeah No]

On 12/26/2023 at 4:09 AM, SabineElisabeth said:

Brennan kept trying to clarify why he disagrees with Dr. Pia's assertion he needs therapy, but Emily seemed to miss the nuance completely.   Specifically, Brennan said he understood Dr. Pia to be saying he needs therapy because he has difficulty identifying / being "in touch" with his feelings generally, leading to an inability to be "vulnerable" and discuss his feelings with Emily. However, Brennan tried more than once to point out that in fact, he has lots of feelings in the general sense of the word;  what he doesn't have are feelings for Emily.  And the latter, at least in his estimation, doesn't seem to require therapy.

I think this is an example of semantics getting in the way.  Of course Brennan has feelings for Emily, it's just that they may not be the feelings Emily might want him to have and he's either not aware of what those feelings are or he just doesn't want to reveal them because it might hurt Emily to do it in front of her on camera.  Also, he doesn't want to risk looking like the bad guy.  I don't think he's unaware of his feelings either in general or about Emily, he just doesn't want to reveal them, at least not publicly in front of her.  Why Dr. Pia chose to take him literally and not understand what he was really saying when he said he didn't have feelings for her is beyond me.  And then to make the issue that he isn't in touch with his feelings and needs therapy for that is way overboard and presumptuous if you ask me.  Just goes to show you the quality of therapist she must be.  Ugh.  

[Elizzikra]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

I think this is an example of semantics getting in the way.  Of course Brennan has feelings for Emily, it's just that they may not be the feelings Emily might want him to have and he's either not aware of what those feelings are or he just doesn't want to reveal them because it might hurt Emily to do it in front of her on camera.  Also, he doesn't want to risk looking like the bad guy.  I don't think he's unaware of his feelings either in general or about Emily, he just doesn't want to reveal them, at least not publicly in front of her.  Why Dr. Pia chose to take him literally and not understand what he was really saying when he said he didn't have feelings for her is beyond me.  And then to make the issue that he isn't in touch with his feelings and needs therapy for that is way overboard and presumptuous if you ask me.  Just goes to show you the quality of therapist she must be.  Ugh.  

I agree. I think Brennan knows exactly how he feels and he just doesn't want to say it - mostly because he is hyper-aware of how he appears on tv but perhaps there is a sliver of him that is a good enough guy to not want to hurt Emily's feelings.

I hope Dr. Pia also realizes this and I'm trying to be cognizant of the fact that there would have (hopefully) been much more to the meeting than was televised. To me, the most disturbing part of the meeting was Brennan's inability to shut the hell up and let Pia talk to Emily. He was really scared of what Pia was going to say in that moment and it showed. 

[Empress1]

16 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

I think Brennan knows exactly how he feels and he just doesn't want to say it - mostly because he is hyper-aware of how he appears on tv but perhaps there is a sliver of him that is a good enough guy to not want to hurt Emily's feelings.

Yeah, he’s said point blank that it wouldn’t be “nice” for him to tell Emily he doesn’t like her, which is what his feelings for her are - dislike. He’s not into her.

I saw a TikTok (I know) where a woman said that a lot of women say to her “things were going fine and then he ended it! Why?” or “things were good and he ghosted!* Why?” and she’s like, “the answer is most likely ‘he got to know you and decided he didn’t like you,’ but nobody wants to hear that.” That’s what dating is: getting to know a person intimately to see if you get along - and if you do, making sure that you’re compatible enough that you can build a life, if that’s your relationship goal. (This show often pairs fundamentally incompatible people together, which is not the participants’ fault.)

I see Brennan getting to know Emily, realizing he doesn’t like her, and trying to come out of this without looking like too much of an asshole.

* Don’t ghost! Use your words.

Edited January 2 by Empress1

[Elizzikra]

3 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Yeah, he’s said point blank that it wouldn’t be “nice” for him to tell Emily he doesn’t like her, which is what his feelings for her are - dislike. He’s not into her.

I saw a TikTok (I know) where a woman said that a lot of women say to her “things were going fine and then he ended it! Why?” or “things were good and he ghosted!* Why?” and she’s like, “the answer is most likely ‘he got to know you and decided he didn’t like you,’ but nobody wants to hear that.” That’s what dating is: getting to know a person intimately to see if you get along - and if you do, making sure that you’re compatible enough that you can build a life, if that’s your relationship goal. (This show often pairs fundamentally incompatible people together, which is not the participants’ fault.)

I see Brennan getting to know Emily, realizing he doesn’t like her, and trying to come out of this without looking like too much of an asshole.

* Don’t ghost! Use your words.

Yep. Those of us who are old enough remember the pithy “he’s just not that into you.” But ghosting is rude and it’s a coward’s way out. I remember when I was single; I went out with a guy once and he sent me an email that basically said “you seem lovely but I don’t feel we are a match.” I really appreciated that.

[Empress1]

55 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Yep. Those of us who are old enough remember the pithy “he’s just not that into you.” But ghosting is rude and it’s a coward’s way out. I remember when I was single; I went out with a guy once and he sent me an email that basically said “you seem lovely but I don’t feel we are a match.” I really appreciated that.

It really isn’t hard to say “thanks for the date/it’s been fun getting to know you, but I don’t think we’re a good fit and I don’t want to lead you on.” I sent a version of this after a date about a month ago and the guy told me he appreciated my clear communication.

Brennan did a lot of talking about how divorce isn’t an option and he’s going to have to eat crow because IMO they’re totally getting divorced. And they should! It’s so depressing to be with someone you know doesn’t feel the sane way you do.

Edited January 2 by Empress1

[Yeah No]

17 hours ago, Elizzikra said:

Yep. Those of us who are old enough remember the pithy “he’s just not that into you.” But ghosting is rude and it’s a coward’s way out. I remember when I was single; I went out with a guy once and he sent me an email that basically said “you seem lovely but I don’t feel we are a match.” I really appreciated that.

I still think the emphasis here is on Brennan not wanting to look bad on TV and that's why he's keeping mum about it even in private with Emily.  He doesn't want to look like the guy that would come right out and hurt a woman's feelings publicly in front of everyone in their lives and the country (or like a hypocrite after saying he would not seek a divorce), but I'm not so sure he would be acting that way if they were just dating and not on a TV show with millions watching them.   I want to give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

Edited January 3 by Yeah No