Melrose Place (1992) - General Discussion

[Maverick]

If Sandy has been written off to her soap career then things should start picking up.   Jo, Amanda and Kimberly will be along in short order to stir up the dreary, boring loves of the apartment dwellers. 

[luckyroll3]

Jo just popped up in the episode I started this morning.  It's about damn time.

[Maverick]

Enjoy.  First season Jo is the best Jo. 

[luckyroll3]

I just realized that Alison is the Kelly of this show.    She is so self-righteous, judgmental, bitchy, and all around annoying as fuck.  And holy hell is she unprofessional.  It baffles me that her boss keeps promoting her time and time again, even when she keeps blowing off the job for stupid ass shit.  I'm enjoying Amanda putting her in her place, especially after she treated Amanda like crap when Amanda was nothing but nice to her when they first started working together.  And nothing is ever Alison's fault; it's always someone else's.  Every time she talks I do one of these:

 

[TeeVee329]

Listening to this first season stretch on "Again With This", I can't believe how boring everything is.  I know that you have to set the table a little before you can get into catfights in pools and wig ripping, but it didn't have to be...this.  And what's insane is that they knew that from "Beverly Hills, 90210," and I feel like even those first three episodes were better than these.

These episodes are also super repetitive, which I know is another first season show thing, to repeat the pilot a time or two, but if we're supposed to buy all these people as a big group of friends (...who apparently bonded in the three months Michael and Jane have been in LA, okay), mix them up!

[MCMLXXVII]

On 4/29/2019 at 7:55 PM, TeeVee329 said:

Listening to this first season stretch on "Again With This", I can't believe how boring everything is.  I know that you have to set the table a little before you can get into catfights in pools and wig ripping, but it didn't have to be...this.  And what's insane is that they knew that from "Beverly Hills, 90210," and I feel like even those first three episodes were better than these.

These episodes are also super repetitive, which I know is another first season show thing, to repeat the pilot a time or two, but if we're supposed to buy all these people as a big group of friends (...who apparently bonded in the three months Michael and Jane have been in LA, okay), mix them up!

See, I’ve always viewed the 90210 pilot as very John Hughes-influenced, or like a PG-13 “Less Than Zero”- it still has a very “80s” feel to me.

By ‘92 you had movies like “Singles” (which I’ve still never seen), “Slacker”, first season of “The Real World”- all the Gen-X stuff, so I’m thinking maybe the writers thought attractive 20-something’s hanging out was interesting enough in the beginning and didn’t plan for full-on soap drama.

Edited May 2, 2019 by MCMLXXVII

[methodwriter85]

1 hour ago, MCMLXXVII said:

By ‘92 you had movies like “Singles” (which I’ve still never seen), “Slacker”, first season of “The Real World”- all the Gen-X stuff, so I’m thinking maybe the writers thought attractive 20-something’s hanging out was interesting enough in the beginning and didn’t plan for full-on soap drama.

I thought it also kind of had a Thirtysomething vibe to it, but for 20-somethings.

[purist]

Here is the page on the Again With This website where you can find visual aids and other info for the S01.E03: Lost & Found podcast.

[luckyroll3]

Woah!  Pre-nose job Gina Gershon in Season 2!

Also, Season 2 is soooooooo much better and more interesting.  Alison is still annoying as fuck, though.

[purist]

Here is the page on the Again With This website where you can find visual aids and other info for the S01.E04: For Love or Money podcast.

[purist]

Here is the page on the Again With This website where you can find visual aids and other info for the S01.E05: Leap of Faith podcast.

Ugh, so boring! Bring on Special Guest Star Heather Locklear. Her first appearance is in episode 21 - we have a long time still to wait.

Edited May 31, 2019 by purist

[methodwriter85]

"You conniving bleached blonde piece of dirt!" God, I loved the fights on this show.

[4evaQuez]

So I'm currently rewatching Melrose Place, and I've made it to Season 4 right after Brooke's ghost possesses Billy. I haven't watched this series since it's original broadcast back in the 90's and I have a lot of thoughts regarding seasons 2-4. I refused to watch season 1 as I remember hating it.

1. Although still enjoyable, season 4 has lost something that season 2 and 3 had in spades, and I'm not quite certain what that is. With 2 and 3 I couldn't wait to watch the next episode but with season 4, it's been harder for me to give the show my full attention. Some possible reasons for this may include:

a. Some characters feel completed isolated from the rest of the cast, i.e. Brooke and Matt. During Brooke's funeral episode, Sydney and Kimberly discuss Brooke's death in the pool, but neither one of them ever shared a scene with her. Jane also talks to Allison about how she (Jane) and Brooke hated each other, but the two only shared one inconsequential scene at Shooters, and this is before Brooke was revealed as the schemer she later became. Brooke also never shares a scene with Matt, yet he attends the funeral, as well. Also, after rewatching the series, I realized Brooke is the first major character death on the show.

b. Some characters seem to have no purpose on the show, and the show is visibly struggling to find a purpose for them, i.e. Jane, Jo and Jake. So the show creates this random Jane vs Jo rivalry that goes no where. Then the two just magically make up after Jane accuses Jo of drugging her and causing her stroke and then the two are at odds again for no apparent reason. Jason's paralysis goes no where and is promptly forgotten about. And the RIchard/Jane partnership just kinda dissolves.  Granted even in seasons 2 and 3 there were storylines that seemed to be there just to take up time, but this involves three major characters who seem to be just treading water. Also, how far has Jo fallen? Season two she is spunky, street smart, scrappy and intuitive. However, after Reed, Kimberly stealing her baby and Jake's brother, she just has no fight in her anymore. Jane punches her, and she just falls on the ground bleeding. Richard and Jo were also a horrible couple.

c. I'm not sure why some of the storylines are happening at all. Mainly Amanda and Bobby Parezi. All of it! Even bringing Sydney into that storyline gave it no life whatsoever and the show exited Sydney out of that sinking ship just as quickly.

Rewatching the series, Amanda has a pit bull's bark with a mosquito's bite. Amanda is good for some funny one liners, but she is constantly being blackmailed, duped, tricked and given orders by other characters. Hell Allison and Billy are constantly talking Amanda into something she initially doesn't want to do and changing her mind. She's also the first to forgive Kimberly after the apartment bombing. And I really don't understand her great friendship with Billy. There is literally not one secret he has ever kept for Amanda up to this point. He even blabbed about her cancer to Allison and her abusive husband to Peter. Two people she was not on good terms with at the time. The only time she is an effective schemer is when Allison is president of D and D, and quite frankly, she, and Allison, worked much better as rivals in those respective roles. Speaking of, does D and D only ever have 3 clients. Lindy Toys, Glorious Gowns and whomever is dating or pursuing Allison or Amanda that particular episode.

Lastly, it's funny that my opinion on certain characters has not changed at all. I still love Sydney. I hate Jane, Billy and Matt. And I'm in awe at how physically aggressive the male characters, including the good ones, are with the female characters.

Anyway about to finish up season 4.

[luckyroll3]

I just finished rewatching the entire series as well.  Season 1 and everything after season was 3 was rough as hell!

1 hour ago, 4evaQuez said:

Rewatching the series, Amanda has a pit bull's bark with a mosquito's bite. Amanda is good for some funny one liners, but she is constantly being blackmailed, duped, tricked and given orders by other characters. Hell Allison and Billy are constantly talking Amanda into something she initially doesn't want to do and changing her mind. She's also the first to forgive Kimberly after the apartment bombing. And I really don't understand her great friendship with Billy. There is literally not one secret he has ever kept for Amanda up to this point. He even blabbed about her cancer to Allison and her abusive husband to Peter. Two people she was not on good terms with at the time. The only time she is an effective schemer is when Allison is president of D and D, and quite frankly, she, and Allison, worked much better as rivals in those respective roles. Speaking of, does D and D only ever have 3 clients. Lindy Toys, Glorious Gowns and whomever is dating or pursuing Allison or Amanda that particular episode.

I felt like the show kept trying to force it down our throats how much of a bitch Amanda was, but never actually showed it.  I loved Amanda because she was always upfront, fairly competent at her job, and called people out on their shit (especially Allison).  But you are absolutely correct that she was also constantly walking things back because someone, usually Allison, Billy, or Jake (ugh, that trifecta), would always tell her that she wasn't be "human" or fair, causing her to apologize for her "bitchiness" and to try it their way, even though she was absolutely correct most of the time!  I can't count how many times Allison blew off work, showed up late, didn't complete a project, etc., but was then appalled that she wasn't given a promotion or assigned as the lead for a lucrative client or deal.  The only times I found Amanda to be out of line was when she called her staff dumb (unless she was talking to Allison, cause....ugh again!).

[4evaQuez]

So I just finished Season 5. I have to say while I found Season 4 more entertaining, I found Season 5 easier to watch. I think it's because besides from a major plot points, I've forgotten most of what happened in Season 5, so it at least seemed new even if it wasn't the most entertaining. 

I remembered that Season 5 was a major bloodbath for the vet characters, but Jo, Jane, Kimberly, Jake, Allison and Sydney was a brutal loss for the show, and quit frankly, I didn't find any of the new characters half as interesting. I felt Taylor started off with promise, but they lost their way with her sometime around she got with Peter and he attempted to make her Beth. 

What's more disheartening is that Jane is the only character that got any sort of farewell. Jo leaves and only Matt and Amanda seem to know. No one else EVER mentions Jo's absence. Kimberly dies and only Amanda mentions it in passing to Kyle. So Kyle and Meagan get more screen time to acknowledge Kimberly's death than Sydney who feuded with her most of her run or the characters that nearly died in the explosion. Any Allison would have been appropriate considering she was blinded as a result of Kimberly. But no. This never happens.

While I was never much of a Billy/Allison fan, I must admit I found their airport goodbye touching. Courtney Thorn-Smith did a wonderful job with the goodbye and I could honestly relate to Allison feeling like she needed to get far away from Melrose Place to start over. While Allison was never my favorite, Melrose without her doesn't feel like the same show. I actually think she was the heart of the show, and again, this is from someone who isn't a huge Allison fan.

I hate that the show wasted Craig for most of the season. He and Amanda did not work and I did not like this rivalry they tried to create with him and Peter. But Craig and Sydney were pure GOLD! I remember loving them during the original run of the show, but I had no idea their relationship was so short lived. Their FIRST interaction is in episode 28 out of 33 episodes. Even still, they provided my favorite scene of the season. When Craig and Sydney inform Amanda that Sydney now works for DandD and there's nothing Amanda can do to get rid of her. Amanda walks off in a huff and Craig and Sydney high five each other. SWOONS! They were so perfect, and they could have been hellraisers together for Season 5. Also I always love when two damaged people who nobody loves find love in each other.

Speaking of Sydney vs. Amanda was such an underrated rivalry. I honestly didn't remember the two going at it, but their beef and tension increasingly rises from season 2 onward. Even small scenes of them just bumping into each other at the mailbox or the pool see them slinging verbal daggers with both giving as good as they got and it just increases from there. Even their brief stint as roommates in Season 4 was pure gold. The two actresses worked wonderfully together, and I wish we could have gotten a DandD vs Sky High in Season 6.  

Lastly, I found myself just as angry at Sydney's death 20 years later as I was the first time I watched it. For once, I wanted to see  Sydney get her happy ending; however, maybe unintentional, I did notice a theme of the bad girls dying - Brooke, Kimberly and Sydney - while the good one get to just leave. I'm not sure if that was intentional but I still will Brooke and Sydney could have left the show alive.

I'm debating if I want to continue watching. I hate Sam for killing Sydney - to be fair, I found her boring even before that. I've never liked Matt or Billy and I find Kyle the very definition of annoying, superfluous and a waste of time.  Hmmm...I try to watch a few episodes, but ugh. 

Edited August 10, 2019 by 4evaQuez

[Hiyo]

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Season 1 and everything after season was 3 was rough as hell!

Seasons 2 and 3 are just pure fun soapy goodness. Some of my favorite TV ever. Season 1 is actually ok once Amanda shows up and the Jane/Michael/Kimberly triangle begins. Season 7 had good moments and was pretty decent overall. Seasons 4 are 5 are hit and miss (more misses than hits at times), while season 6...blech.

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Brooke also never shares a scene with Matt, yet he attends the funeral

I'd say most of the people are there more for Billy's sake than Brooke's. Though that still doesn't explain why Sydney was there.

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Although still enjoyable, season 4 has lost something that season 2 and 3 had in spades, and I'm not quite certain what that is

Darren Star?

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So the show creates this random Jane vs Jo rivalry that goes no where

And they seem to have forgotten that Jo and Allison were best friends, not Jane and Allison.

Season 4 Jo was just...sad.

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While I was never much of a Billy/Allison fan, I must admit I found their airport goodbye touching.

Despite how annoying they could be, and how wooden Andrew Shue is as an actor, they 2 of them had decent chemistry together and could be pretty charming at times.

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I'm not sure why some of the storylines are happening at all. Mainly Amanda and Bobby Parezi

A retcon which just never worked for me.

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I'm debating if I want to continue watching.

My advice is to just skip season 6 and go ahead to season 7, which is at least watchable and has some fun moments here and there.

[Hiyo]

One of the better TV themed mash-ups that were opular a few years ago...Falcon Crest in MP style, and pretty good too. Also, having William Moses appear does make the 2 opening a bit more connected...

[TeeVee329]

Just spotted Vanessa Williams, "Melrose Place" Edition (a.k.a. Rhonda) as the mother of the "final girl" in "Thriller", an indishe slasher move I watched on Netflix for Halloween.  It's servicible slasher fun, and she's good in her few minutes of screen time.

[Advance35]

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While I was never much of a Billy/Allison fan, I must admit I found their airport goodbye touching. Courtney Thorn-Smith did a wonderful job with the goodbye and I could honestly relate to Allison feeling like she needed to get far away from Melrose Place to start over. While Allison was never my favorite, Melrose without her doesn't feel like the same show. I actually think she was the heart of the show, and again, this is from someone who isn't a huge Allison fan.

I really liked that the show managed to make me feel for all of the characters at one time or another, even the one's I didn't care for.  The only one I never managed to empathize with, though I enjoyed her, was Amanda.  Loved her lines and suites and feuds but I never FELT for her, even when bad things happened to her.  I also never felt for anyone that joined the show after Season 3.  But even frequent evil doers like Sydney and Kimberly managed to tug on my heart strings on occasion.  I truly believe Alison loved Jake and I thought what she did in the end for him (though I didn't agree with it) was very selfless.  I don't doubt for a minute it broke her heart.

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I hate that the show wasted Craig for most of the season. He and Amanda did not work and I did not like this rivalry they tried to create with him and Peter. But Craig and Sydney were pure GOLD! I remember loving them during the original run of the show, but I had no idea their relationship was so short lived. Their FIRST interaction is in episode 28 out of 33 episodes. Even still, they provided my favorite scene of the season. When Craig and Sydney inform Amanda that Sydney now works for DandD and there's nothing Amanda can do to get rid of her. Amanda walks off in a huff and Craig and Sydney high five each other. SWOONS! They were so perfect, and they could have been hellraisers together for Season 5. Also I always love when two damaged people who nobody loves find love in each other.

I thought they were ADORABLE and dare I say, romantic.  Sydney was selfish, reckless, underhanded, greedy, at times malicious and callous.  I am still to this day, baffled that Laura Leighton made me love this train wreck of a girl so much.  She was so deeply damaged and hungry for genuine love.   And I believe Craig did love her, truly loved her.  I was horrified at how it ended for them (I never forgave the Sam character).  I remember after Sydney had hatched the scheme to help that crooked lawyer defraud D&D and Craig tried to win her over so she would drop the law suit, there was a scene where they were talking at dinner (and Sydney's arm was in a sling) and she was trying to cut her streak with one hand and Craig just looked at her and smiled before pulling his chair over and cutting her food for her.   It was so ridiculous but so touching.  But that was Sydney for you.  That they thought the sallow and callow Jennifer character could replace Sydney??? What were they thinking?

Sydney has such an energy with all the characters.  Michael, Jane, Amanda, Jake (back in the day), Peter, Kyle and Matt.  I use to love the little moments when Sydney would get to interact with randoms in the court yard.  Everyone knew she was trouble but those that at least had a passing fondness for her would always call her "Syd".  Michael, Jane, Jake, Billy, Matt, Kyle.  Throughout the show, I feel like we did see glimpses of Sydney's other side.   In their final episodes together she was genuinely there for Jane.

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Speaking of Sydney vs. Amanda was such an underrated rivalry. I honestly didn't remember the two going at it, but their beef and tension increasingly rises from season 2 onward. Even small scenes of them just bumping into each other at the mailbox or the pool see them slinging verbal daggers with both giving as good as they got and it just increases from there. Even their brief stint as roommates in Season 4 was pure gold. The two actresses worked wonderfully together, and I wish we could have gotten a DandD vs Sky High in Season 6.  

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.  Their scenes always hummed.  Sydney was jealous of Amanda and Amanda saw Sydney as a lost cause.  I'll never forget how when Jack Parezzi tried to strangle Amanda and then he died in the attempt and Amanda slapped him, then the camera pans and we see Sydney watching "That's no way to treat your husband."

You could tell she relished being able to put the screws to Amanda.  And though she didn't get to relish her victory, at the end of Season 5 Sydney beat Amanda.   Actually kicked the crap out of her.   She destroyed D&D, even got Billy to turn on her.  Amanda had a heart attack when she realized she lost her last client.   And then we see her packing her bags, she was going to move to New York.  I can't think of anyone else we saw get the best of Amanda that way.

Full disclosure, the show never recovered from the mass exits of Season 5.  The final scene should have been Matt's final scene by the pool, when he gave that speech.  Contrary to popular belief, IMO, Amanda wasn't enough to carry the show.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Advance35

[Hiyo]

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Full disclosure, the show never recovered from the mass exits of Season 5.

That and Darren Star leaving between seasons 3 and 4.

[Hiyo]

While it won't break the internet the way a Freinds reunion would, I thought it was still pretty cool to see this.

[Emilio Jr]

I hate that Rhonda's character was written out since she had potential to be a main performer. In addition, I never understood why Jo left the show. Actually, she was the most popular character among the women. Amanda, Kimberly and Sidney were beloved in terms of entertainment but not on Jo's level.

I appreciate that producers made their best to replace the leaving characters, however, Sam, Megan, Craig, Jennifer and Kyle's brother were never catchy.

[Hiyo]

Quote

I never understood why Jo left the show

Given how her character was written during season 4, can you really blame Daphne for leaving?

[Emilio Jr]

20 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Given how her character was written during season 4, can you really blame Daphne for leaving?

Actually, every single original character turned bitchy at some point. I remember reading somewhere that producers hated they all get along and that's why Amanda was brought. Anyway, it sucks they ruined friendships with that plot twist.

[Hiyo]

I don't think it was a case of bitchy, I just think by that point they had no idea what to do with Jo. And while the writing was uneven in season 4, Jo's storylines just sucked.

Also, as much as I liked Jo, and as much as she had her fans, I'm not sure she was the most popular character.

Amanda wasn't brought in because of that. The viewers thought the show was boring (and the ratings were decreasing), so they brought in Amanda originally as a temporary spoiler in the budding Billy/Alison relationship. The reaction to her was positive, so they kept her on began integrating her with the rest of the cast.

[ClassicShowsFan]

Melrose Place Actress Amy Locane Resentenced to 8 Years in Prison for Fatal DWI Crash

[TeeVee329]

So as one does, I'm thinking about the logistics of how Kimberly blew up Melrose Place and how everyone pretty much survived.

Kimberly tells Sydney she's planted four bombs - in the laundry room, in Alison's apartment, in Matt's apartment, and in Amanda's apartment.  What I don't understand is why the bomb in Alison's apartment, because in her villain monologue to Sydney, she makes it sound as it's only because Alison is next door to Matt, but Matt's apartment got its own bomb.

Speaking of, while Kimberly does figure out ways to lure Peter and Michael to the complex, she doesn't seem to do anything to ensure Amanda and Matt are on-site, and in fact, Matt isn't (poor Matt's in jail because he's been framed for murder #finaleproblems).

Anyway, so then the bombs blow up.  The laundry room blows, but the people who were supposed to be in proximity - Michael and Sydney - aren't.  Alison apparently is super lucky that she's not closer to the explosion and that getting thrown across the room doesn't kill her (and that Billy comes in and pull her out before the ceiling collapses).  Matt's not home so no harm there.  And then Amanda's apartment blows, but because she and Peter were taking care of poor Jo in her apartment, she's also farther away from the blast radius.  Thus everyone escapes with cuts and bruises except Mackenize (conked just wrong with rubble) and Alison (who goes soap blind).

Gawd what a classic soap opera moment.

Edited June 15, 2021 by TeeVee329

[Hiyo]

Brad Johnson, who played Dominick O'Malley in season 4, aka the doctor who Jo left LA with, has passed away at 62.

[Egg McMuffin]

62 is too young.

I also think Alison was the heart of the show - the sensible one through whose eyes we saw the action (see Pam Ewing on Dallas, Allison Mackenzie on Peyton Place, Victoria Winters on Dark Shadows, and Riley Richmond on Melrose Place 2.0 for similar character types). I wish she had been written better. I didn’t like when she unrealistically went from receptionist to ad agency president in two years. Or when they had her hook up with Jake in the last season, just to keep her and Billy apart.

But never underestimate the importance of the classic soap opera heroine. And the shows mentioned above suffered when their heroine exited.

[purist]

@Tara Ariano and @Sarah D. Bunting are coming up to the midpoint of season 5 on the Again With This podcast. After having been an avid viewer for the first four seasons, this is about where I bowed out. The show got so boring!

[KWalkerInc]

With my favorite pairing (Jake and Jo) no longer possible after Daphne Zuniga's departure, and Billy and Alison not allowed to reunite (I laughed hard at the SNL sketch that called them "the world's most uninteresting couple," but liked them anyway), the main thing I enjoyed in season 5 was Sydney and her wacky antics.  And then they of course killed her in a salary dispute.  I don't know why I even watched the last two seasons other than I had been too invested for so long to just let go.  Maybe I thought they would revive Syd or bring back the other actors to put the couples I liked together, but of course they didn't.  I was more trusting of writers then than I am now.

[Hiyo]

I hated how they ended Jo and Jake. The characters barely acknowledged each other by the end of season 4. I get some couple break up (for good), but even Jo and Jake always cared about each other, even when they weren't together as a couple.

Season 5 was ok. Some hits, some misses. It's season 6 for that's the worst. I missed much of it because it was just so unappealing. I will say season 7 was a vast improvement of the previous 2 seasons, even if it kind of all falls apart towards the end.

[JAYJAY1979]

One unexplored pairing was Jo and Sydney.  In season 2, Jo kind of looked out for her in a way Jane never did...but that connection was dropped until late in season 4 when Jo took in Sydney's friend and child.

If anyone watched the reboot, Sydney and Amanda still had that rival chemistry...and you saw it in spades in the original show as well.

In the reboot, Jo does manage to get one over on Amanda...and it did make me remember how they had issues in season 2.

[BetterButter]

‘Melrose Place’ Reboot Starring Heather Locklear, Laura Leighton & Daphne Zuniga In The Works

[Palimelon]

What a wholesome show about young adults dealing with adjusting to life...

 

[Palimelon]

I love how the first batch of ads make sure to highlight master thespian Kathy Ireland being on the show.

Also who doesn't expect to hear the line "You gave my baby away?" on a special Christmas episode?

[KWalkerInc]

I still remember watching an episode of the classic (ha) Models Inc with my sister while visiting our grandparents (they weren't in the room) when the first promo for the season 3 premiere came on.  The voiceover was like, "Kathy Ireland joins the cast" and I jumped out of Grandma's reclining chair and had a meltdown, yelling about how Kathy Ireland was the worst actress in the history of the world or something like that.  (I had seen part of an episode of MST3000 that featured a movie where she was the star.)  A friend said that she had a pretty similar reaction.  One of the producers, in an interview with a soap opera magazine, made the mistake of saying they would see what the audience thought and could bring Kathy back for more episodes.  So I made sure to let them know what I thought, via snail mail address they used to list for the networks in the newspaper's weekly TV section.  My friend and I sometimes reminisce about being too worked up about this show, getting enraged when the couples we liked never got to work out (not even when someone left the show, because the actors would leave at different times!).

[Palimelon]

TBH, I wonder if they even had hired a decent actress what more could they have done with the character? She blew up Jake's boat and killed Amanda's dad, so not sure what else her character could have done.

[Palimelon]

 

[KWalkerInc]

Thanks for posting that.  I didn't know that the ladies were doing a rewatch podcast.  When I searched for it, it said to listen to it "wherever you listen to podcasts"--which had been nowhere--but I figured it out and listened to their introductory episode.  I like the actresses, and Jo and Sydney were my favorite characters, although the writing for Jo got weak after a while.  I really liked Syd after she became comic relief, and I was really mad when she got killed off.  I would always make up wacky ways for her to not be dead, so I ignored the CW version after I learned what they were doing.  (Hopefully if the new version they are shopping gets picked up, they'll ignore that version.)

It's funny that Laura and Daphne said Courtney will have to talk a lot for the first 15 episodes because they weren't on those, and Courtney doesn't remember anything about the show.  She mentioned that besides Laura dating Grant in real life, they all dated him on the show and Daphne was like, "You married him on the show" and she didn't remember.  I don't really want to remember that either as the Jake/Jo shipper that I was.  I also liked Billy and Alison, particuarly in season 1, although I thought it was hilarious when Heather was hosting SNL the next year that they did a Wayne's World sketch where Wayne called them "America's most uninteresting couple" and they mocked Billy through his portrayal by Adam Sandler.

I'm not sure that Courtney remembered the first two seasons being on Wednesday either, as she mentioned Heather joining and the "Mondays are a bitch" campaign like it all happened at once.  Laura referred to it being on Wednesdays later in the episode.

[KWalkerInc]

At the rate they're going, the "Still the Place" podcast will never even make it through the first season of the show!  I had read up on the third episode (I used to write recaps just for my own amusement, mostly in college, with no one else really reading them), but instead they just brought Grant Show on and chatted with him for a while.  And it seems like no one remembers anything that ever happened on the show except for Daphne.  It isn't surprising that she remembers well, as I read that when she guest-starred on the CW version, the showrunners knew nothing about the original show and she had to help them.  Grant clearly hasn't been contacted about the potential reboot, as he says with a serious tone, "Has anyone seen Heather lately?" unaware that Daphne and Laura are in with her on this.  They probably can't talk about that, so they quickly mentioned that they're doing a '90s con with her soon.

My favorite part was when they're talking about how Jake got around, but Daphne says Jo was the love of his life and Grant agreed.  They both said that back when the show was still on too, not that the writers would pay attention.

On an earlier episode, it cracked me up that Courtney thought a scene in the clothing store where Jane worked might have been filmed in the makeup trailer.  This turned out not to be true, but it was hilarious that such a thing was even plausible (they had filmed a cardio funk scene with Rhonda in someone's office or something).  I had heard the story Laura shared via Doug that Aaron Spelling wanted people in the pool all the time because setting it up had been expensive.

[Palimelon]

Good to see Grant and Laura are good with each other. Supposedly the Sydney/Jake pairing ended because Grant and Laura ended their relationship in real life.

Also, good to know both Jo and Daphne thought Jo was the love of Jake's life. I hated how it seemed like they were barely friends by the time Jo left, but then again, I also hated how Jake and Jo's relationship was written in season 4 overall.

[KWalkerInc]

I hated how after a while, the writers would just throw anyone together, call it "love" and expect the viewers to eat it up.  It was one thing to split up the good couples and have them with other people as a temporary distraction or an obstacle to putting them together in the end.  But they were like, "Oh, let's have Jo go crawling back to Jake begging for another chance and telling him he was right about Richard--even though she had turned down Richard until Jake cheated on her based on bad info from Jane without even talking to Jo, only for Jake to reject her because he now "loves" Jane."  That was infuriating.  And I didn't want him with Jane and really couldn't stand her, but even after he found out that she had pushed him away because she was raped, he was like, "Oh, I'm into Alison now." 

And Jo was cut off from the whole cast aside from Matt with her boring send-off with the pompous doctor.  They let her and Jake have a hug in her last episode because she was worried about Matt having meningitis, like that was some consolation prize.  And then the doctor acted jealous about it, and Jo laughed it off like Jake was just a friend and had never been anything else.  I really did not like season 4 after Jake and Jo broke up a third of the way through.  (I think Darren Star had left and Frank South was the showrunner then, so maybe that resulted in some of the garbage.)

[Palimelon]

The departure of Darren Star really hurt this show, much like it did 90210. Season 4 was watchable and had some decent storylines, but the show never reached the heights it did during seasons 2 and 3 when he was showrunner.

And Jo really suffered the most when Star left. Her relationship to Jake was badly written. She wasn't interested in Richard, but as soon as she catches Jake with Shelly, she runs to Richard and starts a relationship with him? And after that, her relationship with Jake never recovered. They were best friends even when they weren't involved, and if he could get over her being with his brother, why couldn't he do the same after she was with Richard? Also, Jo and Alison seemed to forget they were best friends and barely interacted in season 4, which was strange.

Jake and Jane didn't work in season 4, even though I saw some potential between them during their brief dating period in season 3. Maybe it helped that Sydney was part of that as she kept trying to break them up in that story. And yes, Jake moved on to Alison rather quickly after Jane dumped him.

But yeah, it did seem like from season 4 onward, the showrunners and writers just didn't "get" the characters the way Star did.

[KWalkerInc]

The announcement of Chad McQueen's death reminded me of a random mention of him when Grant was interviewed on the podcast.  They were filming on the streets of L.A. when Chad appeared and revved his motorcycle or something.  Grant mocked him and they had agreed to fight after filming was done for the day, but Grant elected not to go through with it after learning (from the crew?) that this was Steve McQueen's son.  Grant admitted he was something of a hothead at the time!

I enjoyed the episode with Josie Bissett, especially hearing how well she and Laura got along and how much fun they had even though they had to argue (or worse) a lot onscreen.  The note that she wrote to "Syd" from "Jane" when she left the show was very sweet.  Of course, no one remembers that Josie actually left halfway through the fifth season, not at the end of it.  I'm glad Aaron Spelling was so understanding of her circumstances.

I agree with Josie that they shouldn't have tried so hard to make Jane bitchy in season four, that although characters evolve, they didn't all have to go in that direction.  Well, then there was Jo, who became totally spineless.  I agree that she suffered the most from Darren Star's departure.  He probably wouldn't have allowed that to happen in part because of his longtime friendship with Daphne.

[KWalkerInc]

On last week's episode of the podcast, they were apparently working from their houses and said something about how they'll meet in person when they have another guest.  I couldn't find an explanation, but I'm worried that they aren't getting a lot of listeners and could get cancelled.  They assured people that they are "halfway to Daphne" at least.  It's taking a while because they keep pausing for guests, etc.  I hope they can hang on, as I enjoy their discussions.  (And it was funny last week when they briefly had a tangent about large spiders turning up a lot.  I'm not in Los Angeles or even California, but I've definitely noticed that lately, and it is not enjoyable!  Like Daphne, I've "rescued" spiders before, but not these!)

ETA:  In this week's episode, they mentioned not being in the same city, so maybe someone is just busy and can't come into the studio. 

Courtney asked if the audience was supposed to be rooting for Jake and Sandy, and I think Laura's "eh" reaction to their storyline was pretty common.  They were likely building to something, but the reaction was lukewarm which is probably why Amy Locane was dropped so quickly.  I think I remember being surprised and mildly disappointed when Sandy left, and then Jo showed up and I pretty much never thought of Sandy for the remainder of the show's run.  I think that the girls in my group for a health/cooking class at school found Sandy kind of annoying.  When Matt finally had a storyline, the girls were surprised he was gay and had previously wanted him to date Rhonda, so I think Courtney/Laura/Daphne were right that they only hinted at him being gay in the early episodes.  (I guess I knew because of press before the show debuted.)

Edited October 4 by KWalkerInc
Added info about this week's show, etc.

[KWalkerInc]

Thomas Calabro was the guest on the podcast this week.  I had forgotten about the hilarity when Sydney worked as a receptionist after Peter and Michael went into private practice together.  I do remember one episode where she left a sign on the door:  "No doctors in today - Burns in jail, Mancini in hospital."  I'm sure that was very comforting for the patients!  I think that Thomas may be wrong about how many times Michael was married, but I'll have to look at my old episode guide (I still have a copy on my computer) to be sure.  I remember Jane, Sydney, Kimberly, Megan (I'd forgotten her until Thomas mentioned her, even though I like Kelly Rutherford), Jane.  I'm not sure if he married Kimberly more  than once too, but I don't think he remarried Syd like they thought.  He also didn't marry Taylor (Lisa Rinna); they just had a kid that she took when she left the show.  He almost married Lexi in the pool in the last episode, but she called it off because she knew it wouldn't last and thought it would hurt him, as if it weren't a normal pattern of behavior for him to get divorced.  I used to remember this stuff a lot better, but I guess I haven't seen most of the episodes for 25+ years, except for a bit in 2003 when I was recording off of style/E!

[Palimelon]

Yeah he was married to Kimberly twice. And Sydney only once. Also, did he get married the second time to Jane in season 7, or did they abort at the last minute? I do remember the scene with Michael and Megan crashing through Amanda's roof while Amanda and Jane were sitting on her bed eating ice cream, and Jane was in her wedding dress.

Sydney working at Burns/Mancini was one of the bright spots of season 4.

[KWalkerInc]

From looking at the guide, both Michael/Kimberly and Michael/Jane are complicated, to say the least.  I was just skimming through (so as not to have to relive some of the other storylines in my mind), but in the season 4 episode "Circle of Strife," Kimberly received divorce papers and got upset, but Michael had filed them long before they reconciled and suggested they renew their vows.  So maybe they were only "offically" married once.

Jane apparently tried to (wisely) call off the second wedding to Michael because she thought it would be a mistake (you think?), but changed her mind.  Michael was mad and didn't want to do it, but Peter set up a ceremony at the hospital and Michael was moved by Jane's vows and changed his mind and they got married.  But then Alex (a guy that Jane slept with the night before her first wedding to Michael, according to the "Matt died off camera and left behind a diary" storyline) showed up and convinced Michael that he slept with Jane again (she actually did kiss him).  Michael got drunk and said bad things about Jane in front of everyone.  Megan was upset about catching Ryan with Lexi, so she gets drunk too, and she and Michael end up on the roof, after which of course they crash through into Amanda's apartment where Jane is drowing her sorrows.

On the podcast, the ladies were talking about how Amanda was involved with all of the male regulars except Matt (but Alison supposedly had more guys).  She actually didn't do anything with Dr. Brett Cooper (he was "Coop" but I didn't buy that so I called him his first name in the guide) or Ryan, but the three ladies have probably never heard of those characters because they're from the last two seasons.  Jo would have been spooked by Brett/Coop if she were still there seeing as how he was the same actor who played her ex-husband.  (But of course Rob Estes I think played a different character other than Kyle in an earlier season, and Jane never noticed that!)

[KWalkerInc]

This week, the ladies had an interesting interview with Vanessa Eleanor Williams in what I think was their longest episode to date.  (Vanessa explained there was confusion between her and the better-known Vanessa (L.) Williams because of SAG not having the latter use an initial or change her name from the start, then someone started assigning this Vanessa an incorrect middle initial, so she finally just decided to go by her full name.)  She enjoyed her time on the show and was surprised when she was let go, though I don't recall her ever getting much to do and sadly her scenes seemed to get cut a lot in syndication.  Of course, the same could have been said for Doug Savant (who called in to chat with her for a few minutes).  Vanessa mentioned that if she had been informed of her departure from Melrose earlier she could have auditioned for other roles--specifically she thinks she would have been in the cast of Living Single, but I can't imagine any of the roles on that show played by anyone else (and the show was specifically created because Queen Latifah and Kim Coles had deals in place for shows).  She had a good guest appearance later though.  She ended up in '93-'94 doing a variety show in Spain for several months because of her Melrose popularity before resuming her career in the U.S.

She also had some interesting info about Sandy's Southern accent.  I always assumed they just told Amy Locane to stop doing the accent and that was that, but Vanessa said Locane had to go back and re-dub the voice on several episodes they had already filmed.