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Airdate 07.23.23. Streaming on AMC+. Proceed at your own risk for spoilers before airdate.

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Tensions between Maggie and Negan come to a head. Ginny's search continues and questions arise around Armstrong's path forward.

 

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15 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Very cool.  I like the way it went,  can't wait for season 2.

Three / four episodes ago even I didn't want to see a second season but now I wish there were still ten more episodes to go.

 

Edited by OoohMaggie
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I really enjoyed this episode; there finally was some there there. It was a long slog to get here, though, and I wonder how many viewers decided not to bother.

But get here we did, and I admit to not seeing the plot twist coming. It's set up S2 to be something that I'm excited to watch. Gangs of New York . . . with zombies!

All of the main characters ended up being more interesting or engaging than they were to me during the first five episodes. That was kind of a neat trick because mostly I just wanted to throttle Maggie, Armstrong, and Ginny.The Croat and Dama turned out to have more than one note, and sad Negan made me sad. Young Hershel got off some megaton truth bombs, especially the one about Maggie never really seeing him. Your kid had a toe amputated through torture, Maggie! And I believe he had been barefoot when he was kidnapped.

So, yeah, it's all a great set up for the next season. Whenever the hell that may end up being.

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(edited)

Holy shit. More, please. Does anyone know if season 2 is complete and ready to air or if it will be impacted by the strike?

The Negan hate to Negan love is bananas. JDM does brooding so, so well.

I thought the Croat was going to snap when it was revealed in front of Negan he was not at the top. That's an interesting dynamic.

Really looking forward to how this is going to play out. 

Edited by theredhead77
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I would have been aggravated with this ending had the show ended there, but I have to assume they were pretty confident season 2 was all but a done deal when they wrote and filmed this. As an ending to this first arc of the story and setup to season 2, it was pretty satisfying.

Maggie hasn't had a lot to do throughout much of the series run, which to some extent is to be expected as of course Negan has the flashier role, but she felt a lot more fleshed out and like the actress was finally really settling into this version of Maggie these last two episodes. Even after the double cross reveal, you could see that she was internally struggling with it to the point of being shifty and evasive just as you could see that Negan was picking up on that and reaching a place of weary acceptance with it. I have no idea if he was telling the truth that Ginny's dad was one of the five men he killed and I don't think as an audience we were supposed to be sure either, but it had the desired effect of brutally pushing her away to safety. Negan was fairly radiating waves of self loathing and resignation.

7 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

thought the Croat was going to snap when it was revealed in front of Negan he was not at the top. That's an interesting dynamic.

I loved this. Negan has spent this entire series run thinking he was dealing with a pissed off former underling wanting payback only to now realize that he's just a dog on a different chain to someone he doesn't know yet but does know she thinks a teenager's severed toe in a box is a good welcome to the party gift.

Really hoping Armstrong gets more development in season 2 as half the time I didn't know what the show was wanting us to feel about him. There was delicious irony though in him coming around to trying to do what he thought was the right thing by letting Negan go only to inadvertently sic the New Babylon crew on Manhattan by offhandedly mentioning the methane power.

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Overall, it was a surprisingly good season of TV, much better than expected, and certainly the best this universe has been for a long time. Great performances from most of the cast. 

I'm a bit more pessimistic for next season. I'm not really interested in Drama Lady fighting Head Marshall for control of the methane - I feel that could go on forever, without me caring who wins. 

Why would Negan care about Hershel's toe? Also, how much of a douche was Hershel? He could have at least said thank you for rescuing him from a psycho. 

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So next season I'm expecting we're going to be seeing full Negan again now that theatre lady is threatening more harm to Herschel unless Negan complies. Except it's going to be Negan against the "bad guys" which means Negan is effectively going to be the "good guy" story-wise. I can't even be mad about that.

The croat finally became interesting to me. I liked his confessions to Negan in the truck/van. I thought it interesting that he seemed keen on following Negan again. It makes him much more interesting if he turns out to not be the standard power-hungry villain, but a villain who might not mind being the psychotic sidekick.

I gleaned that Herschel was irritated that even his mom coming to rescue him somehow ended up, in his eyes, being all about a chance for her to hurt Negan. I think he was hopeful and shocked when he saw she came to rescue him, but then his face kind of crumbled when he saw Negan. Which I get, but damn kid. You got kidnapped, a toe chopped off, and who knows what else done to you, and you're back to bickering in the car twenty minutes later. I just...didn't expect that. His relationship with Maggie but be good and truly effed.

Still don't like Ginny.

But I thought if Negan did kill her dad that'd give her and Herschel something to bond over.

Negan's superhero jump and landing after he pushed Maggie onto that shipping container(?) was choreographed so badly, I may have lol'd. It was so obviously a much younger stuntman doing that. Negan has never been that spry.

It was cliche, but I did like that the Marshal seemed to be re-thinking his life choices. You could see the 'wtf are we doing?" written all over his face when he drove up on the gallows with the felons hanging from it. 

Maggie being so all-consumed with grief over Glen after so many years is just tragic as hell. It comes across that she just hasn't had any happiness in all these years, even with her kid, and it just so sad. I don't think she's smiled once on this show since it happened.

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13 hours ago, Superclam said:

I'm a bit more pessimistic for next season. I'm not really interested in Drama Lady fighting Head Marshall for control of the methane - I feel that could go on forever, without me caring who wins. 

Not sure this is the way it is gonna play.  I was even surprised to see the lady still alive at the end of the episode.  Negan taking over after some cleaning in the hierarchy could be interesting.

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1 hour ago, heisenberg said:

Not sure this is the way it is gonna play.  I was even surprised to see the lady still alive at the end of the episode.  Negan taking over after some cleaning in the hierarchy could be interesting.

I could see Doma lady sending Negan to take over the law and order land, and showing up in front of the sheriff who said he had killed him.  At least that guy stopped being a dick.

I didn't realize this was a tv show with multiple seasons going in.  I had thought it going to be a six episode one off mini series.  Don't these actors have anything else to do?  Oh well, I'm not going to complain, since season one was good, at least.

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2 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Thanks!  And it is very affordable.  There are a couple of gluten free, kambucha vegan people annoying me around who will get he message.😁

No problem - and not gonna lie, the exact same thought occurred to me.  😆

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Were we supposed to be getting Les Miserables vibes from the last 2 episodes? Because I was. 

I told my BF last night that, had the creators wanted the audience to flat-out despise Negan (and I don't believe they did), they totally went with the wrong actor. JDM is just hard to dislike.

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(edited)

Eek, that would be nuts! And she does not seem attracted to him in the least.

Somewhat related: I get so annoyed at Negan (and anyone, really) for acting as if Maggie's ire is unwarranted. I mean, I get that years have passed and it's a different kind of world, but who the hell would ever arrive at "forgiveness" for what he did? And, more so, the glee and theatrics with which he did it?!

Edited by TattleTeeny
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52 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Somewhat related: I get so annoyed at Negan (and anyone, really) for acting as if Maggie's ire is unwarranted. I mean, I get that years have passed and it's a different kind of world, but who the hell would ever arrive at "forgiveness" for what he did?

Negan did tell her she shouldn't get over it.

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The Doma Smo character seems to be pretty cheesy to me, and we have yet another megalomaniac wannabe dictator (yawn).  But I do think the idea of a group of bohemian artists surviving in the zombie apocalypse is kind of interesting.  I suppose the idea is they need people to supply them with food and medication while they pursue their artistic pursuits?  It was kind of funny that a bunch of them were napping or sleeping in the theater seats.  Probably not the most productive group lol.

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It's actually more interesting than just another dictator who's crazy because they're crazy. We still don't know a ton about New Babylon except that it's apparently styling itself as a return to civilization and a rather draconian form of law and order. And that it's having fuel issues significant enough that all the ears perked up when they heard about what's left of NYC powering itself with methane. On the other side, you have the remnants of a city that's long been left for dead realizing that they're going to be easy pickings for anyone who comes along because the pockets of survivors left are so scattered and have been fighting each other. But instead of looking for a Rick-style everybody join hands sort of coalition for common defense, the Dama (which is what all the press about the show is calling her) wants to revive a centralized Saviors-style system with Negan as a 2.0 version of himself because the Croat has apparently gone into overdrive talking him up as the warlord with the mostest.

Rather than fighting weirdos in skin suits because oh who knows (Crazy!), it's an actually sort of plausible scenario in this world. I've always said the idea of the Saviors wasn't the problem. It was a logical progression after a complete collapse of any higher government that you'd eventually end up with a warlord taking more and more territory and putting people under the boot. It was the over the top cartoonishness of original recipe Negan and his band of merry assholes that made them such an endurance test to watch.

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12 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Yeah, and I'm still predicting hate sex with him and Maggie.  

Then getting her pregnant from that one time...  Lucky Herschel!😄

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19 hours ago, Crashcourse said:

Yeah, and I'm still predicting hate sex with him and Maggie.  

Yeah - and where’s that puke emoji when you really need it…?  🤢🤮

7 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Then getting her pregnant from that one time...  Lucky Herschel!😄

Lather, rinse, repeat.

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If they Luke & Laura Negan & Maggie... that's BS! What was 'romantic' & 'redemption' back in the early 80s is narcissistic gaslighting in 2023!!

On OLTL, the guy who played Todd (Roger Howarth) wasn't going to have a Luke & Laura w/Marty, which is where the writers wanted to go, and that was the mid-90s. He actually QUIT the show over it (Then came back even more villain-y, and NOT becoming a COUPLE w/his fucking rape victim!)

(Sorry, soap opera story lines from General Hospital & One Life to Live...)

 

 

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On 7/25/2023 at 2:22 PM, Crashcourse said:

Yeah, and I'm still predicting hate sex with him and Maggie.  

I can't see that happening.  Negan would probably be down for it though.

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On 7/26/2023 at 4:44 PM, rmontro said:

I can't see that happening.  Negan would probably be down for it though.

Under drugs maybe?  I do want to point out that in FTWD they were getting high by eating walkers brain stem.  Everything is possible with those writers.🙂
 

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2 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Under drugs maybe?  I do want to point out that in FTWD they were getting high by eating walkers brain stem.  Everything is possible with those writers.🙂

Don't know anything about that, I gave up on FTWD a long time ago.  Maybe they could have a scene where Negan and Maggie are having sex, but Maggie wakes up in a cold sweat from the dream (nightmare?).  Or Negan could wake up, with a smirky smile on his face.

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18 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Under drugs maybe?

And I thought we were friends 😱😂

16 hours ago, rmontro said:

Maybe they could have a scene where Negan and Maggie are having sex, but Maggie wakes up in a cold sweat

If that ever happened i'd be waking up to way more than a cold sweat 🤮🤮🤮

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I'm not quite sure why there has to be a fight over the methane. Just give others the process to power their communities. You don't lose anything, and you make it less likely they'll cause you harm by coming to take it by force.

I can just imagine the New Babylon boss building this huge war machine, rolling up to Manhattan saying "give us the methane" and getting step-by-step instructions in return. "Oh...thanks. Bye, then."

Honestly, a concrete island is a terrible place to try to build a self-sustaining community. How much food can you grow? You'd have to turn every rooftop into a garden, and maintain the buildings so they don't fall down (although they should probably be doing that anyway, for the buildings around their living areas; who wants a skyscraper falling on their brownstone in the middle of the night?)

As for the methane, if it requires dead bodies then, depending on the efficiency of the process, you have a finite resource on an island. You may be fine for a few more years, but once they're used up, where will you get more? Enough to power a community, anyway. You can depend on your own folks dying, but unless they have refined the process so that one body can fuel a good-sized community for months, they're going to have to start cannibalizing themselves, or go out hunting for strangers.

Yeah, Negan should lead these guys back to the mainland.

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