S24.E20: Debatable

[WendyCR72]

Airing May 4, 2023:

Quote

Benson tries to help a student after she's assaulted on a field trip. Fin suspects a witness in the case may not be telling the whole truth.

 

[CrystalBlue]

Yay Fin's back!

[wknt3]

The Good:
Fin is back! And actually played a big role, even if he should have gotten more to do in the beginning. At least they let him have the end and show us and Benson how these conversations can be handled without losing sight of what your actual job is or thinking you are some sort of guru. It was old school SVU in a good way.
It is nice to see that they seem to be committed to having all the squad acting like actual professional investigators. Or at least everyone except the CO.
An interesting idea. Nothing really new of course, but that's a function of being on air since the Nixon administration. Still a strong concept to build an episode around if you can execute it competently.
Carisi. The courtroom scenes are a real strength and the legal side has been very strong - in part because they can't have Carisi falling in love with Benson or go too far in making him the enemy for wanting actual evidence that can get a guilty verdict as both the viewers and the squad know whose side he is on.

The Bad:
The opener. It was excruciatingly long and did not hold my interest at all. It just felt like we could have lost most of it and then left the exposition to the investigation. We really don't need you to beat us over the head with who we're supposed to sympathize with us show. It would have been much more interesting if we opened on the squadroom and the cut to the bus being set on fire as it would have been an actual dramatic moment to catch and hold our interest.
Holy cow was the Benson Stuff piling up deep this week. "Let's take back your power"? Seriously??? Did the SVU writers go on strike early? Or is Dick Wolf leading the charge on ChatGPT scripting?

Overall this was another meh episode in a string of meh episodes. Strong moments and some great acting, but mostly another strong idea with weak execution and Mariska's dollar store therapy sessions with the victim. Resolved: NBC should announce that the next season will be the last and give the fans what they want and deserve.

Edited May 5, 2023 by wknt3
fix typos

[Xeliou66]

This was slightly better than most SVU episodes this season - there was nothing truly awful about it, Benson was her usual sanctimonious, preachy, all knowing self but that’s to be expected in most episodes now. The case was decent and was pretty interesting, Carisi and the legal stuff was strong, that’s an area where the show has really improved over the last couple of years - the legal writing - I enjoyed the trial scenes and the Carisi stuff.

It was great to have Fin back and getting a solid role, he was used well. I like having a complete squadroom, with everyone behaving professionally, even though I missed Bruno.

The case was okay and I liked how it turned out the teachers were the perps, that was an unusual twist. But the opening took way too long and was just filler, we could’ve spent that time on more investigation scenes. Velasco and Churlish were barely in it it seemed.

So aside from St Olivia and her usual crap, this episode was decent, it didn’t have the glaring flaws of some other SVU episodes this season and it flowed smoother than most. 

[love2lovebadtv]

 

2 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The Good:
Fin is back! And actually played a big role, even if he should have gotten more to do in the beginning. At least they let him have the end and show us and Benson how these conversations can be handled without losing sight of what your actual job is or thinking you are some sort of guru. It was old school SVU in a good way.
It is nice to see that they seem to be committed to having all the squad acting like actual professional investigators. Or at least everyone except the CO.
An interesting idea. Nothing really new of course, but that's a function of being on air since the Nixon administration. Still a strong concept to build an episode around if you can execute it competently.
Carisi. The courtroom scenes are a real strength and the legal side has been very strong - in part because they can't have Carisi falling in love with Benson or go too far in making him the enemy for wanting actual evidence that can get a guilty verdict as both the viewers and the squad know whose side he is on.

The Bad:
The opener. It was excruciatingly long and did not hold my interest at all. It just felt like we could have lost most of it and then left the exposition to the investigation. We really don't need you to beat us over the head with who we're supposed to sympathize with us show. It would have been much more interesting if we opened on the squadroom and the cut to the bus being set on fire as it would have been an actual dramatic moment to catch and hold our interest.
Holy cow was the Benson Stuff piling up deep this week. "Let's take back your power"? Seriously??? Did the SVU writers go on strike early? Or is Dick Wolf leading the charge on ChatGPT scripting?

Overall this was another meh episode in a string of meh episodes. Strong moments and some great acting, but mostly another strong idea with weal execution and Mariska's dollar store therapy sessions with the victim. Resolved: NBC should announce that the next season will be the last and give the fans what they want and deserve.

I thought this was an interesting enough episode. I was cooking at the same time so I missed a few things so I was surprised by the mentor/chaperone reveal. But then, there was such an obvious setup between the victim and the boys on the debate team that I didn't think it was them. I 100% agree that the opener was too long.

And I also agree that there was some less-than-great dialogue, though I was intrigued by the young lady's (victim's) dialogue. I know she was intentionally shown to be someone who puts a lot of effort into honing her debate skills to the point of researching and bringing up facts in other conversations. I started to wonder if it was going to present an issue in the courtroom, making it seem like she weighed her options and chose what narrative to tell. Like the way a debater doesn't always argue what they actually believe but they research and learn enough to prove the viewpoint that's assigned to them. I liked how she was inspired by Carisi.

[illdoc]

Question: Who took the sex video? If it was the couple (making a sex tape), why did they upload it? If it wasn't, then who was it and how did they know what was happening in order to be there (at least through a crack in the door) to film it?

[pezgirl7]

4 hours ago, illdoc said:

Question: Who took the sex video? If it was the couple (making a sex tape), why did they upload it? If it wasn't, then who was it and how did they know what was happening in order to be there (at least through a crack in the door) to film it?

I thought it was the boy who took it, and I thought I remember blinds, so I thought it was through a window. But I was confused on when it was taken. The victim said the husband only watched, until the night she got raped, but the video showed him moving on top of her. So if the video was taken that night, did the kid not film the rape part? Also, he seemed super chill about what he filmed and it annoyed me that he didn't mention it at the very beginning. I thought right away that the perp was going to be the husband, not the school kids. SVU loves to do the bait and switch to shock people. I didn't guess the wife being involved though.

I hope Bruno is back soon. I saw that the actor is on another show with Amy Schumer. Hopefully that show gets canceled so he can commit to SVU. heh

[853fisher]

7 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

I hope Bruno is back soon. I saw that the actor is on another show with Amy Schumer. Hopefully that show gets canceled so he can commit to SVU. heh

I hope he's back too.  The last season had only 5 episodes, more like variety specials than a TV season.  I don't know how many he was in, but especially in light of this story indicating that the ongoing plan for all the Law & Orders is to have all the regulars take more episodes off per season, I would like to think he could balance both, if there is more of the Schumer show.

ETA: Oops, I was looking at the wrong one.  I had "Inside Amy Schumer," but the new one is "Life & Beth."  That one had 10 episodes and is renewed for another 10.  The actor appeared in 7 of the 10.  I still really think he could do both.

Edited May 6, 2023 by 853fisher

[tennisgurl]

I'm really glad that the show didn't go in the obvious direction of the asshole rich kids being the rapists, it being the teachers who engage in predatory threesomes with students is way more interesting. It would be so obvious if it was the boys, so obvious that you wouldn't think the show wouldn't do it, but its SVU, so its fully possible this wouldn't even be a mystery. This case did manage to surprise me a few times like that, although I shouldn't be surprised these two had more victims, but it felt mostly by the numbers. Not bad, it was really lifted by some great performances by the guest cast and some interesting ideas and twists, but it was really hurt by some embarrassingly bad dialogue and Olivia going so hard on being Olivia, the best and most awesome compassionate person in the history of the world. I also feel like there was a lot more we could have explored, like the relationship between the teenage victim and her mom and how she ended up being manipulated by these adults, more from the teachers and how this started, but we only had so much time because we wasted so much screen time on that long pointless intro sequence that only served as a red herring to make us think that the boys raped her. We could have established everything they wanted to establish in the interviews with the students and teachers after the bus was set on fire, we didn't need this whole long intro. 

Seriously, "you can take your power back"? Who talks like that? Like with a lot of the shows bad dialogue, it comes off more as a bunch of random sentences thrown together from various social justice articles, not the way a person would actually talk, especially to an abused teenager. 

Even without revealing that the husband raped the college student victim, I would think that just about anyone would find two adults taking a seemingly parental role to their teenage student and then throwing them a birthday to celebrate them becoming a legal adult and sleeping with them that night to be super creepy, even if its all technically legal. 

The courtroom stuff was good, Carisi did a good job and I liked the teenage victim struggling to not sound like she's debating and then being inspired by Carisi. We had to wade through some Olivia nonsense and her paint by numbers therapy sessions, but it was still mostly good stuff. We also got more Finn which is always good to see, and the whole squad was acting professionally, even if I don't love all the new characters its great to see a full squad room. 

[Wizardpatch]

I'm surprised no one is talking about the ridiculousness of Colin the "no homo" character witness. He is ready to announce to the world that he had sex with a guy, but he admits to perjury to the first dude who asks about it in the courthouse bathroom?

[Tachi Rocinante]

"Who drops out of Harvard?"

"Don't ask me, I set a bus on fire."

 

Best exchange of the season.

[webruce]

First off for me, I thought the Youngs were Naomi's parents. Giving her a ride to the Debates, instead of riding the bus. Then she tells that the boys on the bus harass her, I said, "oh oh, raped by the bullies"!  But when the bus shot came on, first I thought it was a flashback. Then after Todd harassed Booker, I thought he would have something to do with it. As the debate ended, and they were back to the motel, I thought it probably wouldn't be Todd. My list after Naomi said yes to a drink, was 1, Booker, so he would get payback to the bullies. 2. A group of boys, Sean, for calling her ice Queen, Booker for what I said before, and fill in other boys. 3. Finding out that Parker Young and Helene Young, are the chaperones,  that maybe he did something behind Helene's back, especially after she asked Naomi in the hall if she was alright. 

We found out at the precinct that Naomi was the only girl and her room had a door to the boys? My thought was, being the only girl student,  why didn't her room have a door with the Youngs? Later after the threesome came out,  I took back my offer of shared doors. Also I was amazed that the 17 and 16 year olds drinking beer, was no big deal to the chaperones? I to was surprised and confused on how Booker could record the making out? Was he in a closet? Or outside? Neither seem plausible. 

Finn was nice to see back. I hate the musical desk chairs with the 5 Detectives and Carisi. It seemed like he was walking slow. He have any problems? 

When Colin Sharpe was telling the press how good the Youngs were, I thought, what a goof, I could have bullies him in school, and I was bullied alot. Later when his true feelings came out, I felt bad for him. It seemed to easy for both Fin and Carisi, breaking him down. It was nice at the end when Finn offered him help.  You see why the Youngs played on him and Naomi, both having problems at home.

I do agree that Naomi's mom, Amber Hayes, does need help, and the 2 need to work stuff out. Nice that she appreciated Carisi's work, and might be a Lawyer someday. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by webruce