S04.E08: Where Are You Going, Where Have You...

[Door County Cherry]

Quote

As memories of the past trickle in, Joe struggles to recall an important detail. Phoebe shares her hasty plans with Kate.  Nadia scrambles for a solution. 

 

[seacliffsal]

All of the various plots and story lines finally seemed to come together in this episode.  Everything seems to be falling apart for Joe.  It will be interesting to see how this all works out/ends.

[Door County Cherry]

I did not need Rhys telling Joe about all the signs he was a hallucination since I noticed all of that in the first five episodes.  It felt very rehashy.  

I am not really believing Nadia and Marianne deciding not to call the police.  I don't think she knows his whole history, does she? And the only way he got away with it last time was to fake his own death.  

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Door County Cherry said:

I did not need Rhys telling Joe about all the signs he was a hallucination since I noticed all of that in the first five episodes.  It felt very rehashy.  

I am not really believing Nadia and Marianne deciding not to call the police.  I don't think she knows his whole history, does she? And the only way he got away with it last time was to fake his own death.  

I'm not buying that Marianne would tell her to leave, and not call the police, either. They could get her out of there, and arrange for police protection for her daughter in France, before Joe even knew what was happening. Or, at least protect her daughter. He has an alarm on the cage.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Anela

[BlueSkies]

Pretty disappointing overall.  While Joe was never exactly a sympathetic character I really though he at least moved on from Marianne 

[bettername2come]

On 3/11/2023 at 4:19 PM, BlueSkies said:

Pretty disappointing overall.  While Joe was never exactly a sympathetic character I really though he at least moved on from Marianne 

I mean, part of him did. The other part of him locked her in a cage.

The DID turn is a little sudden, but it makes enough sense with the fact that Joe hit his head and has always been conflicted about his killings. 

I'm glad to see Nadia getting more of an active role, though not calling the police seems like a stupid plan. 

[JenE4]

On 3/10/2023 at 12:32 AM, Door County Cherry said:

I did not need Rhys telling Joe about all the signs he was a hallucination since I noticed all of that in the first five episodes.  It felt very rehashy.  

I am not really believing Nadia and Marianne deciding not to call the police.  I don't think she knows his whole history, does she? And the only way he got away with it last time was to fake his own death.  

Okay, I might just be dumb, but I’m glad they did that to confirm the theory about Rhys being in Joe’s mind. Frankly, if I didn’t read that here, I never would have thought that on my own.

But I’m with you on not calling the police. I mean, granted, they want to eke out a couple more episodes and have Nadia and Marianne be the heroes (and/or ultimately meet their demise if there’s another season coming). 

Whelp, I guess this show just requires a pretty hefty suspension of belief all around.

[RedInk]

Wrong ep thread - sorry!

Edited March 13, 2023 by RedInk

[Door County Cherry]

4 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Okay, I might just be dumb, but I’m glad they did that to confirm the theory about Rhys being in Joe’s mind. Frankly, if I didn’t read that here, I never would have thought that on my own.

You're not dumb. I just wish it had been a shorter recap.  I think a lot of people missed it if nothing immediately struck you as weird.  I actually went back to rewatch some of their scenes once I thought something strange happened that put that thought in my head. 

[JenE4]

32 minutes ago, LtKelley said:

Yeah, its the classic 'they have to do something really stupid and unrealistic to let Joe get away with it' trope. A reasonable response to finding a starving woman in a glass cage in an abandoned subway station is to call the cops no matter how much the starving dehydrated woman says not to. 

The problem is that doing the logical thing kills the story. It makes no sense that Nadia didn't call the cops.

Don't feel bad. Even though I was thinking Rhys was in Joe's head, I will be honest and admit that when he popped in to the killing scene in his suit, my first stupid thought was "Ooooh Rhys has a secret identical twin!!!!"

I thought the exact same thing! Oh, no! Joe was set up by Kate’s dad to kill Rhys’s secret twin brother…that somehow wasn’t mentioned in his rags to riches biography! What a twist, lol.

[Spartan Girl]

3 hours ago, LtKelley said:

It makes no sense that Nadia didn't call the cops.

Yeah, but given how Marianne hasn’t had an easy go being believed by the authorities regarding her abusive ex husband, not to mention seeing that Joe manages to weasel his way out of everything he’s ever done, I can understand that her initial instinct would be that no one would believe her. And her telling Nadia just how dangerous Joe really is and what he’s done probably scared her off from doing the logical thing.

”Rhys” is only half right: Joe has been going crazy all the way back to Candice. In fact, one can argue that he’s never been wholly sane.

Edited March 13, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[SoWindsor]

Hmm I didn't see this twist coming. Feels very Tyler Durden. Not really liking it.

[JenE4]

Oh, I forgot to add that I also liked in the “it was Joe all along” montage that they literally showed Joe waking up every single time: in his apartment when he discovered Kate’s boyfriend’s body, on the bench outside the art show, in the bush when he was pushed out the window (but also when Emma was killed), after Rhys captured him and locked him in the basement. And, of course, whatever the hell Joe supposedly said to Phoebe the first night at Sundry House, which everyone keeps referencing multiple times, so that will be some big deal, the first time he was Rhys—and I’m guessing Phoebe encouraged it all or something. But that was an ongoing clue this entire time that Joe blacked out and had no memory of what happened during each of those events—-meanwhile I’m just like, Joe must be real tired from grading papers or something. This guy can sleep through anything! Lol. Totally didn’t pick up on that ongoing clue! I’d be such a disappointment to whodunnit extraordinaire, Nadia.

Edited March 15, 2023 by JenE4

[vavera4ka]

On 3/13/2023 at 11:26 AM, JenE4 said:

I thought the exact same thing! Oh, no! Joe was set up by Kate’s dad to kill Rhys’s secret twin brother…that somehow wasn’t mentioned in his rags to riches biography! What a twist, lol.

I too thought it was a twin, esp since there was a Man in the Iron Mask reference just few episodes before...

[BlueSkies]

The show was far fetched enough as is it was certainly believable someone was picking the locks at Joe's apartment just as he seemed to always magically get in all these unlocked doors 

[BaskingsharkGTX]

While the Rhys-is-in-Joe's mind thing does make the show a little better than if Rhys was just a real, more-British Joe, I have to say Holy Super Anvilicious Explanatory Flashbacks, Batman. 

I am now very much hoping that Joe kills both Nadia and Marienne because they are both annoying AF. Cases in point;

1. Not everything in life has to conform to literary plot conventions, Nadia. Shut up. Scream was like 20 years ago. Sequels still suck and so do characters who think being meta is a viable alternative to having a personality.
    
2. Nightingale, after you managed to avoid ingesting the drugged birdseed, perhaps you should have tried singing while you were outside in the street with the fox or, like, in whatever method of transport that he conveniently used offscreen to somehow get you to the craphole containing glass bunker #247* instead of waiting until he dragged you down to the basement and nobody is around to hear you! 
    
3. Maybe don't listen to the lady whose mind is all messed up because she's been locked in a glass cage with no food/water for weeks on end (but who still looks surprisingly good for it) and just call the damn police, Nadia. The Met** is pretty terrible but I think even they won't be able to ignore a giant glass cage in a basement with a lady locked inside it and contacting them would be more effective than thinking up A pLaN wHiCh WiLL nEvEr WoRk...
   
   *It must be very hard to find contractors - especially in a foreign country you've never lived in before - who will assemble giant glass cages in abandoned buildings you don't own for you, without anyone noticing. 
   
   **London police force
    
4. If they had just called the damn police instead of spending 10 minutes tying themselves up in stale exposition pretzels about why they shouldn't, Joe would be in jail and I wouldn't have to suffer another 2 episodes of this idiocy. 

Here is a fun article about how the average Londoner is caught on CCTV 300 times a day... Can Season 5 go full turbo-meta and have Joe take out the writers too? 

Tilly Keeper (Lady Phoebe) is very good in this. So was the dude who played Roald and so is Ed Speleers, especially given what horrible dialogue he is being given to work with as Mockney Mind-Rhys.

Would Kate not have mentioned that her EVOL father was American?

Does anybody remember that annoying little girl from S2 who Joe was sending money to in S3 before he and the writers forgot about her? Anyone? Anyone?

Edited March 22, 2023 by BaskingsharkGTX

[Scarlett45]

On 3/9/2023 at 11:32 PM, Door County Cherry said:

I did not need Rhys telling Joe about all the signs he was a hallucination since I noticed all of that in the first five episodes.  It felt very rehashy.  

I am not really believing Nadia and Marianne deciding not to call the police.  I don't think she knows his whole history, does she? And the only way he got away with it last time was to fake his own death.  

 

On 3/10/2023 at 12:38 AM, Anela said:

I'm not buying that Marianne would tell her to leave, and not call the police, either. They could get her out of there, and arrange for police protection for her daughter in France, before Joe even knew what was happening. Or, at least protect her daughter. He has an alarm on the cage.

I know. I couldn’t believe Marianne’s first priority wasn’t getting out of there so she would not starve to death. Joe could decide to stop feeding her at any time, or what if Joe got hit by a bus, or Nadia couldn’t make it back.
 

In that position I would be screaming “Get my ass out of the glass cage NOW.”

[EarlGreyTea]

Tati Gabrielle was so great in this episode. I felt her slow, claustrophobic despair. With the direction and camera work, I felt like I was in there with her. I can't imagine the total boredom. It's a wonder she didn't go insane. Not even a book to read!

This episode made me feel like I was losing my own mind!

[Avaleigh]

On 3/9/2023 at 10:38 PM, Anela said:

I'm not buying that Marianne would tell her to leave, and not call the police, either.

 

On 3/22/2023 at 4:14 AM, BaskingsharkGTX said:

If they had just called the damn police instead of spending 10 minutes tying themselves up in stale exposition pretzels about why they shouldn't, Joe would be in jail and I wouldn't have to suffer another 2 episodes of this idiocy.

I just came on to see if there were multiple people who were annoyed that they didn't call the police. It completely took me out of the story more so than any other plot development where I've had to suspend disbelief for this show. Once Marienne said that she didn't want to call the police and Nadia actually went along with it(?!) I was pretty much done with both characters. I can cut Marienne a tiny amount of slack for not being in her right mind after being locked up for so long  but what the hell is wrong with Nadia? She has to be one of the dumbest smart characters I've ever seen on a show.

[seacliffsal]

I think that part of the problem was that Nadia thought she was smarter than Joe (after all, he didn't know how to write a murder mystery and she did!).  No way would her plan not work!  Alas...