Season 2: Hangin' Out on the Farm

[mandolin]

Had they decided to leave him, we wouldn't have had the awesome sound of Rick ripping Randall's leg off that post, followed by Randall's scream. What do you think would've been the back half of season two if not for Randall? I am not sure, because it was a good vehicle for Shane's downfall. They surely would've had a different experience had they left him, but you know, TV.

[ghoulina]

Yes, you and Jbody are right - it was important to the plot. But I can still quibble over it! haha

[mandolin]

I hope you don't think I was trying to be snarky! I really do wonder, though. What do you all think they could've done on the back half of season two that would allow Shane to have his breakdown?

I appreciate the Randall storyline because it didn't completely revolve around Lori.

Edited October 8, 2014 by mandolin

[ghoulina]

Agreed; but, okay Herschel says "putting him down might be the most merciful thing". Bring in Rick's argument with Carol ("You don't know that!")

Randall was suffering. He could live. He could die horribly.
But you have other lives at stake, you err on the side of the greater good.
Not the side of being able to preserve your purity at the cost of risking lives.
Rick chose to save Randall. Herschel and Glenn both said gas him, but they were not then considered too dangerous-minded to be around Rick's family.
Just sayin.

 

Which part are you talking about, with Hershel and Glenn being okay with killing Randall? At the fence, or at the house? Because once they got him back to the house alive, I clearly remember Hershel repeating "I don't want to know" in regard to what they do with Randall. And I do think there is a big difference between killing him while he was impaled on the fence, and killing him once he's back at the house. Ripping his leg off was only a last minute decision, their intent was to CUT it off. And there was no question that if they had stood around trying to do that, the walkers would have been upon them. Whereas back at the farm there is more grey area - If we let him go, will he keep silent or bring his crew back on us? The same sort of grey area as with Karvid - it wasn't certain that they were going to die. 

 

But more than that, Glenn and Hershel didn't steal off into the barn and kill Randall of their own volition. There is a big difference between saying what you're okay with as part of a group discussion, and sneaking in on your own and killing someone. Not to mention, Karen and David were part of their community and Randall wasn't. I know, I know - a life is a life. But it takes a real coldness to kill someone you have lived with and ostensibly cared for over several months; that wouldn't be the case with killing some random dude you just met. THAT'S why I can understand Rick losing trust in Carol, whereas Glenn and Hershel really never gave him reason to doubt them. 

 

All of this, of course, is based on the premise that I see Carol's actions being believable for her character, which I don't. I still don't to this day. And I love Carol. But given the stupid storyline we were given, I get why Rick did what he did. 

I hope you don't think I was trying to be snarky! I really do wonder, though. What do you all think they could've done on the back half of season two that would allow Shane to have his breakdown?

I appreciate the Randall storyline because it didn't completely revolve around Lori.

 

Oh, no, I didn't find you to be snarky at all!

 

And I definitely think the Randall storyline is a good one, because it's certainly got people talking and talking and talking about it. Lot's of debate to be had. I really don't know what else they could have done, I'm not super creative. Shane being brought down directly over Lori would have been groan inducing. I just tend to be one of those people that thinks about what I would have done and then gripes at the TV, but I understand that the writers have to have something to work with. 

[kikismom]

Which part are you talking about, with Hershel and Glenn being okay with killing Randall? At the fence, or at the house? Because once they got him back to the house alive, I clearly remember Hershel repeating "I don't want to know" in regard to what they do with Randall. And I do think there is a big difference between killing him while he was impaled on the fence, and killing him once he's back at the house. Ripping his leg off was only a last  But it takes a real coldness to kill someone you have lived with and ostensibly cared for over several months; that wouldn't be the case with killing some random dude you just met.

 

 

At the fence, Herschel was not only referring to walkers eating Randall if they left him alive. He also said if they '"rescued" him that would only be the beginning of complicated surgery and infection and the strong possibility he wouldn't make it...it would be more merciful not to put him through that. Glenn just wanted to croak Randall because that gang had tried to kill them. (Similar to Glenn wanting Merle dead or the Governor dead because of what happened to him and Maggie.)

 

As far as taking some real coldness to kill someone you had lived with and cared about for months, I think Rick and Daryl were closer to Dale than Carol was to Karvid. But Rick was going to shoot Dale, and Daryl did it for him, and it was a scene that made me tear up not just Dale dying like that, but knowing what was in Daryl's heart to do that. Yes, Dale was bit and certain to die...but frankly if Carl hadn't got shot T-Dawg might have died on the highway. You never know sickness leading to death or not...but I'll go with my previous argument about hoping all those people with Ebola get help, yet knowing if it was a scenario of living in a bunker and someone having had exposure and knowing that once they get symptoms it will spread...I might not value their life over my loved ones. Terrible but so is a subsistence level survival when the ethics are very different. Carol didn't burn those people to death as some say; she put the knife in the head and burned the dead bodies. It was hard-core, but I don't know how scared I'd be in her place.

[ghoulina]

At the fence, Herschel was not only referring to walkers eating Randall if they left him alive. He also said if they '"rescued" him that would only be the beginning of complicated surgery and infection and the strong possibility he wouldn't make it...it would be more merciful not to put him through that. Glenn just wanted to croak Randall because that gang had tried to kill them. (Similar to Glenn wanting Merle dead or the Governor dead because of what happened to him and Maggie.)

 

Oh okay, gotcha. Yea, I still think that's different than what Carol did, because they were TALKING about it....and not just taking it upon themselves to do it. 

 

As far as taking some real coldness to kill someone you had lived with and cared about for months, I think Rick and Daryl were closer to Dale than Carol was to Karvid. But Rick was going to shoot Dale, and Daryl did it for him, and it was a scene that made me tear up not just Dale dying like that, but knowing what was in Daryl's heart to do that. Yes, Dale was bit and certain to die...

 

Again, I just don't find the two comparable. And it's not even that I think Dale was more certain to die than Karvid, but Dale was clearly aware of what was going on. He even leaned his head in a bit, so I feel like he consented. And the entire group was there to witness what was done and why, and the state Dale was in. None of that happened when Carol sneaked into Karvid's cells and killed them. 

[kj4ever]

Oh okay, gotcha. Yea, I still think that's different than what Carol did, because they were TALKING about it....and not just taking it upon themselves to do it. 

 

 

 

 

Again, I just don't find the two comparable. And it's not even that I think Dale was more certain to die than Karvid, but Dale was clearly aware of what was going on. He even leaned his head in a bit, so I feel like he consented. And the entire group was there to witness what was done and why, and the state Dale was in. None of that happened when Carol sneaked into Karvid's cells and killed them. 

I absolutely think Dale gave his consent, and it was an act of mercy big time.  His guts had been eaten, he was ripped wide open, and was in incredible pain.  He couldn't even speak, so he tilted his head up to the gun to help Daryl do it.  That was an act of love, not a cold hearted murder.

[kikismom]

I absolutely think Dale gave his consent, and it was an act of mercy big time.  His guts had been eaten, he was ripped wide open, and was in incredible pain.  He couldn't even speak, so he tilted his head up to the gun to help Daryl do it.  That was an act of love, not a cold hearted murder.

 

I understand that you're trying to make a serious point, but when you put "act of love" and "Daryl" in the same sentence it's hard for me to concentrate.

[Seawolff]

I get the thinking re: Randall. I get it from each perspective.

At the point that they are all at in their lives leaving the bar in season 2:

Rick has just shot two threats in self defense and defense of Hershel and Glen. He has shot people before, but he has never shot anyone except in self defense, and if Glen & Hershal hadn't been there he might have gotten away without shooting. So that was Rick's training at work: it enabled him to both shoot the threats as well as decide to rescue and preserve the life of a non threat. Law officers are trained to bring the bad guys in and turn them over to EMTs. Not kill them.

Hershal, on the other hand, as a farmer and a vet, has had a lot of experience with making life and death decisions for animals that were not threatening him. He's just spent the day watching animated loved ones be put down by the group of someone he enabled to live. While in the midst of his epiphany, His daughters and farm have now been threatened by bigger badder guys than Rick or Shane wanting to come to the farm. Still, Purely as the shocked vet who knows surgery is iffy, he suggests they put Randal down.

Glen, in shock, has just frozen in the alley because for the first time he's afraid of dying and losing Maggie. He has no ability to do surgery, doesn't want to deal with Randal, is all for just getting back to the farm.

At the point where surgery has gone well:

Hershal has just repaired one more guy who he wants on his farm even less than he wanted CDB there. He's begun to realize that he might need Rick for the protection of his own family. He wants Randal gone But he doesn't want to be a part of the decision to set loose or kill someone he just repaired. He trusts Rick to make the call. Many of those on the farm who had no say in the arrival of Randal feel the same as Hershal.

Dale doesn't care so much about Randal as he cares about the ethical direction that the group functions with. He doesn't have a practical solution but is against the group deciding it's ok to kill someone.

Rick cannot trust Randal to live on the farm and wants to take him far away and set him free, expecting that he could fend for himself. Or not. He (Rick)does not have it in him to kill someone in cold blood. Shane is pressuring him and adding in an emotional family life agenda that doesn't normally enter into doing the job. Once they find out that Randal knows Maggie, Shane claims they have a case to kill Randal and Rick wants to rethink it, and all the drama happens, but ultimately Rick goes with his very first instinct which was to make every effort to preserve life. He is not willing to give up the rules by which he has lived most of his life. Rules backed by thousands of years of human experience.

Now we have Shane. For Shane, every bad guy is the guy who shot his partner. His partner, Rick, who was always strong, and equal and there for him and who died. His last act of their best friendship was to look after his friend's wife. He tried to give it all back to Rick but he struggles with his loyalty to Rick and his loyalty to saving his dead friends wife and kid. He would have put Randal out of his misery there on the fence by the bar. The new Rick who woke up is not supporting his new rules survival agenda; the agenda he adopted when he decided he couldn't hear the heartbeat of someone whose monitors clearly showed him as having one before the power went out. He's pissed that Rick is "so stupid" as if he knowingly brought a rabid hyena back home and gave it a pillow at the foot of "Shane's" unborn child's bed. Randal isn't a person to Shane. To Shane Randal becomes the physical proof that Rick is unfit. It's clear to Shane that Randal shouldn't exist and he spends all his time learning about Randal for the purpose of using every detail against him.

Once Rick makes a plan to go somewhere with Daryl, well, not just somewhere, but on the same errand that he had gone on and failed at, Shane flips the switch on the partnership. He uses Randal in the scheme to get rid of Rick.

[CletusMusashi]

Awesome post, and that depth of character interaction is why this year's AMC marathons have convinced me that  2 is the greatest season. Pisses most people off big time when I say that. "Oh, but all they do is hang out on a farm!" No, they do all kinds of stuff. They just happen to be using a farm as their center of operations. So what? Are prisons and random spots in the woods all that much more exciting than farms?

Shane was a way more layered villain than anyone since. And, honestly, the earlier, less friendly Herschel was more layered than the Martyr-Sue Herschel of later seasons. Lori was horrible, but at least she was horrible with an interesting story arc. And wasn't a stupid ghost. Daryl was still struggling with his savage roots. And Glenn and Maggie were still forming a great relationship, instead of just using it as a plot McGuffin. On rewatch, there is a lot to Maggie's speech to Glenn about how he's a great leader who just doesn't know it yet. And of course there's also a bit of black humor to Andrea insisting "My feet work just fine!"

Much of Season 1 is just as good as S2, but a much of it isn't. And I am way, way too bored with the Governor to sit still all the way through S3 again. That makes me sad, because the first time around I loved 3 as much as 2. S3 was more about surprise than detailed interaction, though. Season 2, even with it's absence of some excellent later characters, is as good the show gets.

[kikismom]

Two excellent posts.

 

I think people have a knee-jerk reaction the word "farm".Like they'll lose hipster points for admiring anything even remotely associated with the country.

 

 

I also think many TWD fans have trouble keeping personal preferences and objective rating separate.

 

I hate the moment that they are hiding in silence in the bar when DaveandFatTony's friends come looking---and Rick just has to blurt out: "They fired on us first!"...but I love that the writers put that in to illustrate the struggle Rick has with his conventional morality and the exigencies of a new world.

 

I love that Herschel has just got on board with Rick for killing Dave&FatTony; then when Rick offers justification for the shooting-- to the bad guys! , he gives Rick a WTF?! look like it's Herschel that has been with the program longer than Sheriff Grimes. I hate Glenn's naive babbling of info, but love that the writers made his personality true and the actor sold it so well.

 

IMO, if the third season had been the one that followed the pilot six-episode season, TWD might have lost enough viewers to be cancelled; the Gov just sucked the air out of the show. It was season 2 that solidified the real point of the story. The revolving show-runner drama is making the storyline and tone just carom like a pinball...I kinda like the idea of Nicotero for his strong approval from the actors, but I'm also scared that he'll be just about kinetic scenes. Some articles about the direction of Season 5 are pushing that. I doubt we'll ever see the likes of Scott Wilson, Michael Rooker, Lennie James or other great character actors signed on again.

Edited October 11, 2014 by kikismom

[ghoulina]

Excellent, excellent post, seawolf. And I agree with everyone that 2 was a great season. But I think TWD has different kinds of viewers, and there are some that seem to want non-stop action, blood, guts, and gore. And those type don't necessarily appreciate real character work and moral quandaries. Season two had those in spades. And, personally, I LOVE a farm locale. There's something so spooky about a farm, because it looks so serene on the surface....but underneath....

 

It was definitely my favorite location. The prison was too depressing. 

 

I do think season 4 had some great character work with people like Michonne, Carol, and the girls. There definitely seemed to be more of a central theme and good questions were being asked again. But yea, season 3 just seems so boring and aimless to me in retrospect. It has some really standout episodes, but as a whole it's my least favorite.

[Seawolff]

Oops. I got carried away. Nothing to see here, folks.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Seawolff

[RedheadZombie]

I saw Cherokee Rose for the first time since it originally aired.  Several different things struck me.

 

First of all, NR looked at least ten years younger.  If he looked in seasons one and two, the way he looks now - I don't think the character would have been nearly as popular.  It's actually jarring to see how young and handsome he was, compared to now.

 

Glenn looked like he was fourteen, and strangely, Beth looked like she was in her twenties.  That leads me to believe that they've regressed her character instead of aging her.  She dressed more maturely, and she didn't stand around in those awkward poses that EK perfected - all hunched shoulders and lowered head while looking up with huge doe eyes.  It seemed very odd.

 

AL and MMB were a good ten to fifteen pounds heavier than they are now.  I wonder if it's an acting choice they made to appear appropriate to the ZA and few meals.  It also could be the typical demands on actors to stay very thin.   MMB still had prominent bones in her chest, but her arms and lower body were one to two sizes larger than she is now.

 

Probably the biggest change (IMO) is AL's voice.  I was primary listening to the show, and I had to look several times to confirm it was Rick talking.  His voice is much deeper now.  Another acting choice I guess.  He also looked a lot younger.  Poor Rick - the stress has hit him the hardest physically.

[kikismom]

I saw Cherokee Rose for the first time since it originally aired.  Several different things struck me.

 

First of all, NR looked at least ten years younger.  If he looked in seasons one and two, the way he looks now - I don't think the character would have been nearly as popular.  It's actually jarring to see how young and handsome he was, compared to now.

 

Glenn looked like he was fourteen, and strangely, Beth looked like she was in her twenties.  That leads me to believe that they've regressed her character instead of aging her.  She dressed more maturely, and she didn't stand around in those awkward poses that EK perfected - all hunched shoulders and lowered head while looking up with huge doe eyes.  It seemed very odd.

 

AL and MMB were a good ten to fifteen pounds heavier than they are now.  I wonder if it's an acting choice they made to appear appropriate to the ZA and few meals.  It also could be the typical demands on actors to stay very thin.   MMB still had prominent bones in her chest, but her arms and lower body were one to two sizes larger than she is now.

 

Probably the biggest change (IMO) is AL's voice.  I was primary listening to the show, and I had to look several times to confirm it was Rick talking.  His voice is much deeper now. 

Sarah Wayne Callies gave an interview where she said she and AL made choice to lose weight; I believe she lost about 12 lbs and he lost about 25? But no one else did so it seemed strange.

In those episodes MMB face almost looks puffy and round compared to now!

EK acted like quite a wise been-around teenager and as you said, regressed to someone much less mature. I still cannot believe at the prison when Zach is leaving and she is wearing a f@%king romper suit.

I like AL's voice much better now, as I like the beard...scared we're going back to BIg Boy Scout and I hope not.

Poor Glenn. They made him wear the damn baseball cap, I guess we should be thankful they allowed him to deliver pizzas and not Panda Express. T-Dog got to stop wearing the kangol hat and the Brooklyn shirt. Excruciating.

Yes Daryl was a thousand times more attractive; he has gained weight and jet black hair dye makes anyone look older. Plus, if you can't grow a beard, make some excuse for shaving. Bob didn't grow a beard, Zach didn't, etc. Just like not everyone in Georgia has to have a southern accent, not every guy in the ZA has a beard.

[RedheadZombie]

I caught Cherokee Rose again, and I really like the SL about the well walker.  T-Dog wants to shoot it, Maggie objects, Glenn says it's a good plan, Andrea says it's stupid and will contaminate the water, and Shane agrees.

 

They try to get the walker to grab the rope, Andrea says - "we need live bait" and looks right at Glenn, who clearly is not happy, but agrees.  When the pump breaks off and Glenn falls, everyone - especially Shane and T-Dog - frantically work to save Glenn.  Even skinny Lori is knocking herself out to save Glenn.  At one point T-Dog is almost single handedly holding the broken off pump, and this is when his arm was still newly injured.  When Glenn reaches the top, Shane snatches him out, and Lori is rubbing his back and trying to soothe him.  It makes me so sentimental for the time when humans were all good, and the only thing to fear was the walkers.  There were some resentments in the group by this point, but you couldn't see it when they were struggling to save Glenn - even Maggie who barely knew him.

 

Best part - well walker grabs onto the rope and they haul him out (smartly using a horse this time).  That is until he gets stuck, and he's ripped in two, with bottom half and innards falling back into the well.  The look on T-Dog's face is hilarious.  T-Dog beats the walker's head in as Maggie cringes, then finishes with, "Good thing we didn't do anything stupid like shoot it".  BAM - he throws down his weapon and walks away.

 

I know people have mixed feelings about the farm, but I really love season two.

[ghoulina]

Me too! There was more humor back then. And I just find the farm setting itself so beautiful. Zombies are dark. Prisons are dark. Gets to be a bit much. The juxtaposition of the beautiful sunsets over the wheat fields with flesh eating monsters around every corner made a really nice atmosphere, IMO.

[walnutqueen]

Every time I saw Hershel's house and his beautiful porch overlooking the farm, it made my heart ache.  I loved that place.

[AngelaHunter]

I'm very much enjoying all the insights in the posts here!

 

I had to stop watching in Season02, primarily because of Dale and Lori. I just couldn't endure one more word out of the mouths of either of them.

 

But on rewatch, I did like some of it, like "Nebraska", although the guys in the bar (Dave and Tony?) were too stupid to live seeing as they positioned themselves to shoot each other if they wanted to take Rick out.

[RedheadZombie]

Every time I saw Hershel's house and his beautiful porch overlooking the farm, it made my heart ache.  I loved that place.

 

I know everything went bad quickly, but I would have loved a scene where someone released the horses.  Knowing they were either eaten alive, or starved to death within their stalls is so disturbing.

[walnutqueen]

I know everything went bad quickly, but I would have loved a scene where someone released the horses.  Knowing they were either eaten alive, or starved to death within their stalls is so disturbing.

 

La la la la la - I can't hear you!  Any suggestion of animal suffering is totally unbearable to me.  I can never watch the Atlanta horse scene.  Ever.  Even the sound of those poor broken legged chickens makes my soul shriek to this day.

 

My sympathies don't extend to the human race, so I can watch the rest of TWD without a qualm.   Go figure.   :-)

[RedheadZombie]

La la la la la - I can't hear you!  Any suggestion of animal suffering is totally unbearable to me.  I can never watch the Atlanta horse scene.  Ever.  Even the sound of those poor broken legged chickens makes my soul shriek to this day.

 

My sympathies don't extend to the human race, so I can watch the rest of TWD without a qualm.   Go figure.   :-)

 

Don't forget the piglets, who were only maimed and were eaten alive.   Topped off with the look on Rick's face as he sacrificed the little lives he'd nurtured. Why didn't he slit their throats first?

Edited February 2, 2015 by RedheadZombie

[walnutqueen]

Don't forget the piglets, who were only maimed and were eaten alive.   Topped off with the look on Rick's face as he sacrificed the little lives he'd nurtured. Why didn't he slit their throats first?

 

Still can't hear you!  :-)

 

Oh, please, for pity's sake, stop evoking my PTSD, I beg of you!  There's a reason my ff button wears out all my remotes. 

[AngelaHunter]

La la la la la - I can't hear you!  Any suggestion of animal suffering is totally unbearable to me.  I can never watch the Atlanta horse scene.  Ever.  Even the sound of those poor broken legged chickens makes my soul shriek to this day.

 

Oh god, me too! The piglets and chickens made me shrivel inside although I didn't see the whole scenes. As soon as I had an inkling of what was going to happen, I shut my eyes and hit FF.

 

Ack! No more animals!

[RedheadZombie]

When I originally watched season two, I thought Beth was in her early twenties and married to Jimmy.  Of course I now realize I thought Beth was older than sixteen, because the actress was much older.  And after watching 18 Miles Out, I know where I got the married part - from Beth.  While moping about whether she wants to be or not to be, she says to Maggie (referring to Jimmy), "We went out for three months, and now I'm married to him".  I realize now she was whining about not having other guys to choose from - tell that to Maggie!   Hershel was so protective of Beth, the poor thing probably ran himself ragged making sure Beth never had the opportunity to have sex with her boyfriend.     

 

Two other things I forgot:  Beth asks Maggie, "When has dad ever admitted he was wrong?", and that's after calling him clueless.  Which shows how much Hershel evolved after season two.  Also, Beth wants Maggie to enter into a suicide pact with her.  Beth was so much more interesting on the farm.  She tells Maggie that "no one can protect us", and when Maggie tells her that it's not true, Beth mocks her with, "who, Glenn?".  "Rick will save his family, the others too.  We're alone.  You, me, Patricia, with only Dad and Jimmy against a whole world of those things".  I guess Beth thought protecting themselves wasn't women's work.  I sure hope Beth thanked Lori for ripping her away from Patricia and saving her life.

 

And as much as Maggie always seemed to baby her sister, she said this to Beth, "Mom would be ashamed to learn she raised such a coward."  I love how different the sisters were.  Maggie was strong, a fighter, willing to go down fighting before giving up.  Completely independent - Hershel knew not to attempt to control her, and was allowing her to make supply runs on her own.  Beth was mentally weak, hopeless, the only member of the Green group who really saw how bleak the ZA was, and willing to guilt Maggie into killing herself so Beth wouldn't have to die alone.  Poor Hershel, could you imagine him coming home and finding both daughters dead?

 

 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Season Two was both at times great and not quite so - but mostly really good.

 

I know some people complain that s2 was way too slow and didn't really go anywhere, especially the first half.  But that was the beauty of it, really.  While dialing way back on the action, it brought the characters and their interactions to the forefront.  After all, isn't the basis of Walking Dead all about the living, and not about constantly fighting hordes of zombies?   There were so many good character-driven storylines in this season.  And the main group was mostly harmonious (aside from the barn and what it held).  Unlike other future seasons, where its been about one group of survivors vs another (sometimes more).  

 

I'll always remember seasons 1 & 2 as the 'pure' ones.  It was pretty much always about them vs the zombies.  We got glimpses of what other humans were turning into [guys in bar/Randall/that group, Shane], but nothing like s3 & beyond.

 

And yes, the animal abandonment, maiming, and death scenes are very hard to stomach.  I don't consider myself a 'PETA' person or anything, but I do cringe in seeing animals in danger/being eaten by the zombies.

 

 

And speaking of animals, I realized I've had a question and forgot to ask - (I think, maybe I forgot that I asked before, lol) - ......  when Dale initially came upon the cow that was eaten and then got disemboweled himself, the cow was moving its head and making noises.  Was its 'kill' fresh enough that its brain was not quite dead yet, or had it actually turned into a zombie!cow?  Meaningless to the overall viewing experience, but I've always wondered.  And, thinking more on it, it must not have turned because nobody made a scene about it while huddled around the dying Dale, or its never been made a possible focus after that.  

[editorgrrl]

I thought the cow was dying but not yet dead—in the same way that poor Dale soon was.

[kikismom]

 

And speaking of animals, I realized I've had a question and forgot to ask - (I think, maybe I forgot that I asked before, lol) - ......  when Dale initially came upon the cow that was eaten and then got disemboweled himself, the cow was moving its head and making noises.  Was its 'kill' fresh enough that its brain was not quite dead yet, or had it actually turned into a zombie!cow?  Meaningless to the overall viewing experience, but I've always wondered.  And, thinking more on it, it must not have turned because nobody made a scene about it while huddled around the dying Dale, or its never been made a possible focus after that.  

Animals don't "turn".  They just die and stay dead. Or this show would be even crazier.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Animals don't "turn".  They just die and stay dead. Or this show would be even crazier.

 

Yeah, I figured as much.

 

Would be nice to have an explanation as to why though, just as it would to be have an explanation as to why people "turn".  But, I know that won't happen.  Just will always wonder 'why?' on those particular questions.

[RedheadZombie]

Season Two was both at times great and not quite so - but mostly really good.

 

I know some people complain that s2 was way too slow and didn't really go anywhere, especially the first half.  But that was the beauty of it, really.  While dialing way back on the action, it brought the characters and their interactions to the forefront.  After all, isn't the basis of Walking Dead all about the living, and not about constantly fighting hordes of zombies?   There were so many good character-driven storylines in this season.  And the main group was mostly harmonious (aside from the barn and what it held).  Unlike other future seasons, where its been about one group of survivors vs another (sometimes more).  

 

I think season two may be my favorite.  It's the season that I remember the most episode titles - Nebraska, Cherokee Rose, 18 Miles Out, Pretty Much Dead Already, Chupacabra - all on my most favorite list.  Some of the reasons I love season two:

 

The humor:  Glenn "living the dream" while being lowered into the well.  Maggie/Glenn quickie at the pharmacy.  Andrea's quip about Lori having a husband and boyfriend, followed by Lori saying Andrea sits on the roof of the RV holding a rifle and working on her tan.  The end of Chupacabra when Rick pulls the ear necklace off of Daryl, and says to keep it to themselves.  Daryl's "Olive Oyl" crack.

 

The rise of Rick:  Rick has always been the hero of the show, but he often came off as a pollyanna.  In Nebraska, Rick showed he can be a badass, and has amazing instincts.  He is willing to kill proactively - and does so - in the first human vs. human SL.  Rick clearly becomes the one and only leader in this season, but ends the season a little ambiguously as he confesses he knew they were all infected.

 

The fall of Shane:  Shane was one of my favorites, but I wasn't blind to his faults.  I think the bromance between Shane and Rick was the most complex relationship of the show, and it was heartbreaking when Shane proved unable to kill his best friend, yet Rick was able.  Killing Otis was something Shane was unable to overcome, and his slide into insanity (?) was fascinating.  It was a surprise to realize that Shane could not handle this new world, but Rick could.

 

Daryl coming into his own:  I didn't like Daryl until Cherokee Rose.  He was racist, immature, hostile, and anti-social.  Although I understand his anger at Rick, he knew Merle better than anyone, and it took him too long to forgive Rick.  His redemption started when he saved T-Dog, and his determination to find Sophia and his kindness shown to Carol made me start to love him.  His torture of Randall reinforced what Daryl was capable of, and Chupacabra was the first time we explored Daryl's man-pain, and started to understand him.  He ended the season completely loyal to Rick - the man he held accountable for Merle's "death".

 

The evolution of Hershel:  Season two Hershel wasn't super likable.  He was stubborn, close-minded, self-righteous, and he put the lives of walkers above humans.  He saved Carl's life, but mostly because Otis was the one who shot him.  Up until the very end, Hershel wanted to send an injured child, pregnant woman, and the rest out into danger, and never truly took his head out of the sand.  I've never completely believed that Hershel didn't know Sophia was in the barn.  In a scene where the group is studying a map to decide how to search for Sophia, Maggie questions what will happen if they find her too late.  Someone in our group says - "Do the right thing".  Maggie exchanges a look with Hershel, then asks what they will tell Carol.  In Nebraska, I finally realized that what I saw as sinister in Hershel, was actually his deluded attempt to protect the barn walkers.  The scenes when all the barn walkers are killed one by one, as Hershel collapses in agony was so well-acted and moving.  His acceptance of Glenn, then his attempts to protect his farm as it fell, finally had me pulling for him.

 

The big secret is revealed:  We finally learned that everyone is infected, and the set up of the reveal was awesome.  Rick, even knowing the secret, turns his back on a reanimating Shane, only to be saved by Carl.  Posters online had been guessing this is what Jenner whispered to Rick, but maintaining the secret for an entire season led to the emotional reveal in a  very affective manner.

 

My criticism of season two:  The fact that none of the reasons I loved it had to do with female characters.  Even so, the female characters had some good moments.  Lori saved Beth's life three times - maybe she couldn't keep track of Carl because she was so busy keeping Beth from offing herself.  Andrea - insisted she not be relegated to "women's work" and proactively sought to learn to shoot and take a turn at guard duty.  She also did a heck of a job running from the farm when it fell, and fighting off walkers.  Maggie's intro was pretty cool - riding in on a horse and taking out a walker with a baseball bat.  She was independent, strong, and loyal to her family.  Carol's reaction to the Sophia-walker reveal was just heartbreaking.  And the premiere of Michonne was a great cliffhanger.

[flutist4fun]

I loved S2 too, Redhead, for most of the reasons you listed, plus the scenery! I always find this show weirdly beautiful, but watching S2 is like a little ole vacation, especially now knowing how much worse life becomes.

Watching some of the marathon last week reminded me of two brief moments that always make me laugh. When Carol asks Lori, as "unofficial First Lady," to extend an invitation to cook for the Greenes, Lori is at that moment hanging what looks like a pair of Rick's boxers on the line. The look on her face is, What, First Lady to him? The guy who wears these geeky plaid boxers??

The second moment is late in the season. Rick and Lori are getting changed in their tent and discussing ScaryShane (what else). It's hard to catch, but it looks like Rick takes her shirt and his socks and tosses them off in a corner. Even living in a teeny tent in the ZA, guys just don't have time to find the laundry hamper.

[AngelaHunter]

Reading all these posts makes me want to rewatch Season 2, even though it originally turned me off the show for two years due to my extreme dislike of Lori and Dale.

 

The discussion here made me remember that was quite a bit I did like, so there's my weekend set up!

[kikismom]

arggh!

Edited March 5, 2015 by kikismom

[mandolin]

http://file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/rsz_11021138_356923004493223_7286348332580905626_n.jpg

Link won't open. :(

[kikismom]

I know, epic fail...they won't let me use image...sorry!

 

Link won't open. :(

[kikismom]

https://www.facebook.com/TheWalkingDeadFamilyEGVO/photos/a.167708753414650.1073741828.167603420091850/356923004493223/?type=1

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So, I stopped to realize a huge plot hole at the end of Ep7"Pretty Much Dead Already", or beginning of E8 "Nebraska" - at least for me, personally...  how did all those gun shots [during the clearing of the barn full of walkers] not attract any other walkers, let alone a herd??  

 

I know, realism doesn't have a place in fiction, but looking back, I can't help but have serious case of 'WTF?!' on how it didn't attract any attention.

[ghoulina]

Well, I think a lot of us tend to believe the herd out on the highway might have been initially attracted by that ruckus. They started heading that way. But walkers are slow, you know....but yea, if there were any random ones in the woods, you'd wonder why they didn't pop up. 

[JBody]

The pilot is still my favourite episode but 2 is my favourite season, for all the reasons already mentioned here.  At the time when it was airing I was bitching about the slow pace but in retrospect there are so many good things going on that the negative aspects are really outweighed.  Although maybe it's because I was more emotionally invested in these characters then, too.  Not sure...  Hopefully S6 will fully engage me again because I sort of checked out during a lot of S5.

[RedheadZombie]

So I'm watching Pretty Much Dead Already, and when I'm about to possibly ugly cry about Sophia shuffling out of the barn - I recall a hilarious poster here who once described Lori as screaming "don't look Carl" as she holds him in a headlock with his eyes pointed straight at Sophia. Then I giggled. Kind of ruined it for me.

[ghoulina]

Haha! Isn't she awful sometimes??? Why was he even out there? The minute Shane popped those barn doors open, I would have taken my kid into the house! What if they couldn't effectively control the situation? Carl could have gotten chomped. Stray bullets anyone? The kid JUST got over being shot, but no....let's have him stand right there with bullets zinging right and left, and watch all the carnage. 

 

At the very least, she could have asked Dale to take him inside. 

[CletusMusashi]

Back then, the only way to keep Carl inside was to shoot him.

[Nashville]

[RedheadZombie]

Haha! Isn't she awful sometimes??? Why was he even out there? The minute Shane popped those barn doors open, I would have taken my kid into the house! What if they couldn't effectively control the situation? Carl could have gotten chomped. Stray bullets anyone? The kid JUST got over being shot, but no....let's have him stand right there with bullets zinging right and left, and watch all the carnage.

At the very least, she could have asked Dale to take him inside.

Dale came walking up after it was all over. It was stupid of Lori, but Rick simply stood there holding the Walker on the dog stick. He would have been able to rescue Lori and Carl. But the true reason was so we could see everyone's reaction. Character assassination in the name of plot.

By the way, Daryl was still cute then. And poor Glenn, waiting for Maggie's permission but still looking so torn.

[ghoulina]

By the way, Daryl was still cute then.

 

Right??? Whenever I watch seasons 1 and 2 I miss Daryl. Even 3 wasn't TOO bad. By 4, he was Too Far Gone. 

[Haleth]

But was there ever a better line than <thwack> "We brought dinner."?

[shoetingstar]

 

I wanted to fight this kid. 

 

Newbie. I just finished Season two. my two cents on the Randall thing - I was against killing him, until that scene where he's talking to CARL (that fucking kid!). He said something like I'll take you to my camp and show all the supplies we have. He may have been bluffing but it was the opposite of what he had told Rick, Shane and Darryl, - he claimed he had no idea where his group was,etc. He just was not trustworthy. 

[poppy-]

I was on Youtube and for some reason the bar scene from Nebraska came up, making me all nostalgic for season 2.

But on rewatch, I did like some of it, like "Nebraska", although the guys in the bar (Dave and Tony?) were too stupid to live seeing as they positioned themselves to shoot each other if they wanted to take Rick out.

 

The big guy was an idiot.  The little guy put himself behind the the safety of the bar ... smart.   Great sublty sinister performance by that guy.

[BooksRule]

I've been reading the older comments here and I'm glad that there are others who liked season 2.  I know there were a lot of complaints when it initially aired that it dragged and that there weren't enough walkers until the very end.  It never was one of my favorite seasons, but I watched the entire season yesterday and this morning and it is much more likable to me when I can watch it quickly instead of watching an hour and then having to wait at least a week to see the next one.  I found it much less draggy and realized that a lot of stuff happened during that season.  

Now that I have AMC in HD, I had wondered if the scene right at the end of 'Better angels' would be clearer than I had seen it before.  In the past, when I watched that scene as the camera drew back and we (but not Carl or Rick) could see the mass of walkers coming towards them I could never really see the walkers.  It just looked dark.  If I didn't know that there were walkers there, I would have been able to see them.  When I watched it this time it was the same--really, really dark.  However, when 'Beside the dying fire' started and we saw virtually the same scene, the walkers could be seen as clear as day.  Much better.  (Maybe there were complaints after the closing scene of the previous episode and it was lightened up for the season finale?  I don't know, but I could definitely tell the difference.)

Finally, I remember being surprised the first time I saw the season finale that Hershel made it out alive.  I thought for sure that he was going to go down with his farm.  And, I cheered when Daryl heard Carol screaming and turned his motorcycle around so he could go back and pick her up.  I had forgotten that part.

Edited July 11, 2016 by BooksRule

[ghoulina]

I think this is a show that really is better when you binge watch it. I watched the first 3 seasons that way and I really loved the show, for the most part. I think season 4, the first one I watched live, was a pretty strong season, but there are a few episodes I don't care to rewatch. But man, seasons 5 and 6 were painful to watch live. Only a few good episodes here and there. I think season 2 was pretty good. I loved the farm setting. And I think that even though there was a lot of talking, they were facing interesting dilemmas. I don't know what it would be like to watch live, though. This show has a big problem with pacing and momentum.