S05.E06: Ipatiev House

[Milburn Stone]

On 11/10/2022 at 7:58 PM, peridot said:

It was so sad to see the Romanov's belief that their cousin was saving them.

My reaction was to say to myself, "these people are incredibly naive."

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

My reaction was to say to myself, "these people are incredibly naive."

They really were. They were moved to a very, very remote place in Russia and all the windows are covered up. And you really think what's happening is a rescue? It should be very clear what's coming.   

[ChelleGame]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:34 AM, paramitch said:

The irony of "The Crown" is that Peter Morgan has very little interest in the woman who wears the actual crown, and spends 90% of his time on the fanfictional manpain of Philip, Charles, etc., as the men who don't get to wear it.

That's interesting. I read the original pilot draft years ago and it did feature Philip, The King and Winston. The Queen barely made an appearance. Can't remember what draft it was but it changed significantly before it was filmed.

[Deskisamess]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:44 PM, Miss chi chi said:

IMHO Imelda has mean eyes. I’m sure it’s no reflection on the actress’s real personality. The other queens had very compassionate eyes.

Yes! She always looks mad.

[gingerella]

On 11/12/2022 at 11:51 AM, Spartan Girl said:

To close on a shallow note, I loved Elizabeth’s sapphire tiara and necklace set. 😍😍😍😍

I believe they were aquamarines, not sapphires.

[Scarlett45]

On 11/19/2022 at 10:39 PM, Blakeston said:

This was my interpretation as well. I don't think Peter Morgan was suggesting that Phillip and Penny screwed. I think the idea was that they were having an emotional affair, and Elizabeth knew it, and felt much more threatened by it than by Phillip's casual sexual flings.

Yes. I mentioned this in episode 2 I think, likely if Penny had been game Phillip would’ve been glad to hop into bed with her, but she enjoyed the attention and admiration even if she wasn’t interested in sleeping with him. 
 

I can understand how that would be more threatening to Elizabeth than a random sexual fling. 

[Tyro49]

Did the BRF have any idea that the children would be murdered as well? If they did, why didn't they at least make an offer to take the children? It may well not have worked, but at least they could have tried.

How did the story/rumor that Anastasia had survived get started?

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

Did the BRF have any idea that the children would be murdered as well? If they did, why didn't they at least make an offer to take the children? It may well not have worked, but at least they could have tried.

I assume taking the children would be the same as taking the adults. They're all heirs to the throne (even the girls enough so they could produce heirs).

 

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, Tyro49 said:

Did the BRF have any idea that the children would be murdered as well? If they did, why didn't they at least make an offer to take the children? It may well not have worked, but at least they could have tried.

How did the story/rumor that Anastasia had survived get started?

I wish they had tried for the children. But Queen Ena of Spain did try to get the children as did Prince Philip's mother Alice. They were turned down. 

Pretty much since their deaths rumors and various people claimed to be Olga, Tatiana, Maria, Anastasia and Alexi. Anastasia just became the most famous. On YouTube there's someone who does royal history videos called History Tea Time with Lindsay Holiday who has a video called the Fate of The Romanov Daughters and their Pretenders. There were a lot.

[Notabug]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:15 PM, Tyro49 said:

Did the BRF have any idea that the children would be murdered as well? If they did, why didn't they at least make an offer to take the children? It may well not have worked, but at least they could have tried.

How did the story/rumor that Anastasia had survived get started?

The Romanov dynasty stretched back 400 years in Russian history, the Russian people had known nothing but Romanov rule in their lifetimes.  Allowing any of the children to survive would've been an invitation to monarchists to try to overthrow the new government and install one of the kids as head of state.

In addition, Nicholas and Alexandra, Alexandra especially, were almost fanatical about keeping their kids with them at all times.  The older girls could've perhaps been married or at least betrothed prior to the Revolution and might've escaped that way, but Alexandra kept them on a tight leash and did her best to make sure they didn't meet eligible men.  

Remember, too, that Alexandra was German and was thought to be sympathetic to Kaiser Wilhelm in WWI.  Other European royals with ties to the Romanovs were leery about bringing them to their country while fighting against the Kaiser.  It would've been really unpopular which is why George V ultimately didn't fight to bring them to England.  There was also concern that having deposed royals running around might give the British people ideas about getting rid of their own monarchy.

Even as events unfolded and the dynasty was ending; Alexandra refused to see the writing on the wall and would not let any of the children out of her sight, even to escape with Nicholas' mother and other Romanovs who got out.  In addition, the children caught the measles at the worst possible time and Alexandra refused to leave the palace at Tsarkoe Selo when they had the chance, insisting they not be moved.  Nicholas was away at the front and she declined to leave without him.  In the end, she honestly thought that the Russian army would protect them from the revolutionaries, not join them and she refused several options that might've saved at least some of the children.  By the time the revolutionaries stormed the palace and seized the family, it was essentially too late for anyone to do anything to help them.

Anastasia pretenders existed because there was never any formal confirmation of the deaths of the Tsar and his family and their bodies weren't found until 1979 and the information withheld for around 12 years until communism fell.  The last two bodies, buried separately, were found in 2007.  They've all been identified using DNA and are buried in St Petersburg with the rest of the Romanovs.

DNA testing wasn't around in the years that the Anastasia pretenders were running around claiming to be her.  Anna Anderson was the most famous and it wasn't until after her death in 1984 that tissue samples were tested to prove she was not related to the Romanovs.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Notabug

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

In addition, Nicholas and Alexandra, Alexandra especially, were almost fanatical about keeping their kids with them at all times.  The older girls could've perhaps been married or at least betrothed prior to the Revolution and might've escaped that way, but Alexandra kept them on a tight leash and did her best to make sure they didn't meet eligible men.  

Yeah, the three oldest girls all had interest in them from other royals but Alexandra rejected them all. They would have survived had she let them marry. 

Quote

 

Anastasia pretenders existed because there was never any formal confirmation of the deaths of the Tsar and his family and their bodies weren't found until 1979 and the information withheld for around 12 years until communism fell.  The last two bodies, buried separately, were found in 2007.  They've all been identified using DNA and are buried in St Petersburg with the rest of the Romanovs.

DNA testing wasn't around in the years that the Anastasia pretenders were running around claiming to be her.  Anna Anderson was the most famous and it wasn't until after her death in 1984 that tissue samples were tested to prove she was not related to the Romanovs.

 

Russia also had an odd history of people claiming to be the Tsar or his family. The three false Dimitris and Peter III for example.

[lidarose9]

I'm watching this a year later and just want to add, for those of you interested in the murder of the Romanovs, the film "Nicholas and Alexandra" was very good. The screenplay was adapted from a book by Robert Massie written long before their remains were found. After the fall of the Soviet Union, more evidence came to light, and it turns out Massie's book did a good job of filling in the blanks.

The only point where his account lacked important detail (imho) is the fact that most of the men who took part in the massacre were very drunk that night. The Whites were breathing down their necks, they were nervous and scared, and they wanted to get the hell out of dodge. It was a sloppy, horrific operation. They made a huge mess of it, it was dark and there were so many bodies to carry out and heap onto carts. The room was full of smoke and blood. Some of the victims were still moaning as they were being carried out. The forest was pitch black. One of the carts got stuck in the mud. They had to dump them temporarily that night and come back the next day to dig a better grave. They literally abandoned the Ipatiev house that night after the bodies were removed. When the Whites arrived a couple days later, they found everything as it had been, including the bloodstained walls and personal items left behind. 

Also the jewels were small and had been sewn into the gowns' seams so they'd be less obvious. It's an exaggeration to say the bullets bounced off the jewels. 

[MadyGirl1987]

On 10/17/2023 at 11:55 AM, lidarose9 said:

I'm watching this a year later and just want to add, for those of you interested in the murder of the Romanovs, the film "Nicholas and Alexandra" was very good. The screenplay was adapted from a book by Robert Massie written long before their remains were found. After the fall of the Soviet Union, more evidence came to light, and it turns out Massie's book did a good job of filling in the blanks.

The only point where his account lacked important detail (imho) is the fact that most of the men who took part in the massacre were very drunk that night. The Whites were breathing down their necks, they were nervous and scared, and they wanted to get the hell out of dodge. It was a sloppy, horrific operation. They made a huge mess of it, it was dark and there were so many bodies to carry out and heap onto carts. The room was full of smoke and blood. Some of the victims were still moaning as they were being carried out. The forest was pitch black. One of the carts got stuck in the mud. They had to dump them temporarily that night and come back the next day to dig a better grave. They literally abandoned the Ipatiev house that night after the bodies were removed. When the Whites arrived a couple days later, they found everything as it had been, including the bloodstained walls and personal items left behind. 

Also the jewels were small and had been sewn into the gowns' seams so they'd be less obvious. It's an exaggeration to say the bullets bounced off the jewels. 

It's all so sad. No matter what you think of Nicholas and Alexandra, they didn't deserve that. The kids especially didn't deserve that...

[andromeda331]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:12 PM, MadyGirl1987 said:

It's all so sad. No matter what you think of Nicholas and Alexandra, they didn't deserve that. The kids especially didn't deserve that...

I agree. The more I learn about the events of the time I really don't like Nicholas or Alexandra. Nicholas could have potential put a stop to the revolt by agreeing to and sticking to the Duma instead of messing with it so it had no power and he still could do what he wanted and Alexandra's unwilling to be around anyone she didn't like or felt was a threat to her husband's power which seems like almost everyone. It's frustrating the many mistakes they made that lead to the revolution. They didn't deserve to be shot and killed in a basement. And the kids definitely didn't deserve it.