S02.E11: Doll Parts

[BungalowSummer]

 

I don't think you can judge Nolan by the namby-pamby, wussified, politically correct definition of a "man" in 21st century America, and I have no trouble with him being portrayed as he is

 

I love Nolan the way he is. He calls himself "an animal" and IMO just by recognizing his own roughness he mitigates it. A woman could do a lot worse than Nolan by her side when the going gets tough. You're right, though: Grant Bowler could stand to lose 20-30 lbs. He had a gut and love handles, more like handrails, working there. He's still cute in a bear-like way, but it strains credulity to have him duking it out with Sukar or Tommy. I'm thinking that if Berlin was that interested in Nolan after Tommy Hardbody, it must be due to his vast experience and superior skills.

Edited August 25, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[GaT]

Tommy's a black guy in a sci-fi show.  I've been terrified for him since day one.

 

 

 

LOL, good point, at least they didn't put him in a red shirt. 

[kieyra]

Hmm. I really hate to focus on an actor's body, especially with regards to weight, but I also noticed Nolan's beer gut. I don't really pay much attention to the actors' bodies on this show except for uber-skinny Jaime Murray and whoever is naked in the bath with her. So I wonder why many of us noticed it in this episode. Have they been doing a better job of costuming around it, or is it possible something medical has caused him to swell up a bit? Prednisone or something? 

 

Less shallow note:

I actually came here to say...Hello, I'm mostly an 'outsider' to this show, a lot of my nerd friends gave up after season one and I stuck around because I love the Tarr family so much, but I have say to I've legitimately been enjoying this season. There's usually at least one 'hell yeah!' moment for me each episode. I've been trying to get people to give the show another chance. I think if they brought Irisa's story all the way around to "SciFi" and gave up the shamanistic crap they could win a lot of love back. 

 

However...the last time I realized I was fully invested in a SyFy show was Being Human, and you guys (well TWOP) warned me my heart would get broken, and sure enough the show was cancelled within six months of those warnings. Do we know what Defiance's renewal chances are? (I don't see a ratings thread.)

Edited August 25, 2014 by kieyra

[BungalowSummer]

TVLine has this: "Defiance: Season 2 finale airs Aug. 28; Season 3 renewal is a safe bet." Spoilertv.com has the weekly ratings info.

 

I am very hopeful, despite all the badmouthing and pessimism at sites like io9 and the guy at tv dot com. I truly don't get all the negativity toward this show. I'm so happy not to have another iteration of vampires, zombies, angels, demons or comicbook superheroes.

 

BTW, I usually don't like to mention actors' weight either since nobody is perfect, least of all me. It just hit me with this episode, though. I guess they've either disguised it well, or Bowler hit a speed bump diet-wise. I actually like it that he's not a standard-issue studly hero. If I want abs galore, I turn to Lincoln on The 100. (Yes, I can be very shallow.)

 

Irisa was going on about how she's broken, that Nolan broke her. I think it's a bum rap, that Irisa's crazy cultist parents and their sadistic guru broke her. If anyone has been broken, it's Nolan. He's a beat-up, middle-aged guy who was born into a normal world and before he could go to high school, his world was turned upside down. He's a stone-cold killer and every day he has to negotiate to stay alive and keep his wayward daughter alive. I suppose his rumpled, weathered body goes with the man.

[MDKNIGHT]

If Christie and Alak sleep in the same bed, she hid the microphone under her own bed, which doesn't seem very sensible.

This has come up multiple times and I've been thinking about it.  Isn't it possible and even probable that Christie being (a) really heavily pregnant and (b) annoyed with Alak since their spat at the Cosply club, has been sleeping in a different bedroom?  Look at the body language etc when Alak greeted the brother and gave Christie a kiss on the cheek.  She turned away gving an excuse that she had human cold germs.  And the dialogue hinted they hadn't seen each other before Alak went to the radio station.  This would explain the servant finding the mic under ALAK's bed and not under THIER bed.  It would also not be such an unusual arrangement.  I can imagine not wanting to disturb your about to pop wife's sleep by getting in and out of bed for work and in late pregnancy a lot of couples stop having sex.  Since she was annoyed with Alak on top of that, I can imagine she just plain did NOT want to share a bed with him right now. 

Edited August 26, 2014 by MDKNIGHT

[SmithW6079]

As for Grant Bowler, he's now 46 years old.  As a fellow 46 year old I can testify that by that point the body's "warranty" has completely expired and the only thing left is to try to slow your constant, inevitable decline.

 

That's not true at all. Studies have shown that people can build muscle mass and improve their fitness into their 90s. There are dozens of videos on YouTube that show men 50, 60, 70 who are in fantastic shape, who attest to the fact that they're in better shape in their "middle age" than they were in their youth. Physical decline is not inevitable; it's a conscious decision on the part of the individual.

 

As for Grant Bowler, he's in a profession that revolves primarily on looks. I'm not judging him for putting on weight, just remarking on it, especially since the first few episodes often had him shirtless.

[kieyra]

I tried some snooping to see if he has an underlying health cause, as either way the gain seems sudden, but I can't even find any gossip sites talking trash about him, which is a silver lining. (Wouldn't fare so well if he was a she.)

I don't necessarily agree that one can prevent age-related physical decline entirely, but it's obvious the man knows how to take care of his body, and this does seem sudden, which is why I keep going back to "health issue".

[ae2]

Did I miss where Viceroy Mercado has been for the past few episodes? Did he leave? And also... the whole sending Pottinger to the Dakota Reach and then calling him back thing. I get that Mercado wanted Pottinger out of his hair, but the "something something EGO extraction, recall Pottinger from the Dakotas at once!" threw me off. Maybe the writers had a bigger scheme in mind, or just couldn't come up with a better way to bring back Pottinger.

 

I'm still holding out hope that his motives run deeper than wanting in Amanda's pants. But that hope is dwindling. 

 

I liked Dierdre, and never found her one-dimensional. She was pretty well fleshed out as a social climber, and shown to be pretty manipulative. Christie, on the other hand, until this episode, was dumb as a box of rocks. The only thing that saved her, and doomed Dierdre, was the baby. She was obsessed with killing it, and started punching at Christie's stomache to hurt the baby instead of hurting Christie. The backtracking to show how much Dierdre meant to Amanda was never going to work, but overall, I'm pretty well satisfied with how that story progressed and wrapped itself up.

[sjohnson]

Strictly speaking, i'm not sure that Christie is one bit smarter now than before. She only figured out whozis' poison plot because she mystically acquired Castithan senses from being pregnant by one. And she won the fight by being stronger than whozis, not smarter. If she was going to reconcile with Alak she shouldn't have tried to frame him. And if she was trying to frame him she should have made sure Amanda got the microphone. If she was just hiding the microphone under her own bed (instead of just Alak's,) well, that was as smart as we've seen her before. She seemed to be more upset that Alak had cheated than that whozis tried to poison her baby. If she was trying to punish Alak for cheating but not confessing, leaving the microphone could have put him beyond salvation, but if she was that angry, why did she suddenly change her mind? Also, it should have been perfectly clear that whozis was engaged in poison plots because Alak had indeed dumped her. In other words, his repentance was proved to be sincere, even if the details of his confession were incomplete. 

 

In other words, by a fluke, whozis exposed herself as a total villain, then Christie's brawn saved ass. Then she more or less exposed Alak and/or herself to jail without a clue as to how to either sacrifice Alak to save herself or the two of them together. Fortunately for her Stahma stepped in, despite Christie not being swift enough to ask for help/advice. Then since Alak wasn't going to jail, she confesses all so that...I'm not quite sure. So that Alak can admire her strength in hurling whozis through the window? (To be fair, I'm very impressed. If they had to, they could farm, and Christie could do the plowing, which to be honest I'm not sure Alak would be strong enough for.) Or so that Alak would know to dump his girlfriend? That's seem odd since he had already and she knew it.

 

The thing is, in the long run, the Tarr family will rise or fall on the willingness of people to die for them, not their willingness to be hired by Tarrs. I don't think Datak or Stahma or even Christie could really win that kind of loyalty from fellow members of a community. They wouldn't be fellow members, for one thing. But Alak? Alak really could be that kind of person. In one sense the show already knows this. It was Alak who won the goons' loyalty from Datak after all. But will the show commit to the logical thing? Or will it fart around with sensational jokes like Killer Christie?

 

There was not really a story here. None whatsoever. Christie could have walked out with the microphone and the bottle of poison and told everyone what happened and everything would have been over. None of this was really about anything.

Edited August 26, 2014 by sjohnson

[kieyra]

 

Strictly speaking, i'm not sure that Christie is one bit smarter now than before.

 

It doesn't help that the actress often has a stunned-bunny look on her face. 

[BungalowSummer]

 

Christie could have walked out with the microphone and the bottle of poison and told everyone what happened and everything would have been over. None of this was really about anything.

 

Absolutely. She had a very plausible story of self-defense that had the virtue of being the truth. My feeling about the scenario is that Christie has bought heavily into Stahma's Castithan malarkey about "seeming is being." One possible explanation for Christie not 'fessing up is that she immediately decided that the whole business with Treasure Doll was too much a "vetanu ma nawo" -- a great shaming.

 

More and more, she's trying to imitate Stahma -- the ugly reality underneath doesn't matter as much as a pleasing surface to show the world. For Stahma, it's an intellectual exercise that makes her criminal choices palatable. Christie is, however, just as dumb -- or maybe it's naive -- as you describe. I don't believe she's thinking about alibis or anything beyond the next ten minutes. I didn't think she put the microphone under the bed to incriminate Alak. I think she just stowed it there to get it out of sight and out of mind.

 

She left the poison out to shame Alak. Like Stahma, it was left to Christie to protect the family by doing what was unpleasant but necessary. One of the best moments in the episode was Alak's reaction to his realization that he'd married his mother after all. To me, this is what the Christie/Treasure Doll story was about.

 

In Christie's defense, she grew up without a mother, in a house full of men. Stahma has encouraged Christie's naive attachment and dependence on her as a mother and friend. Christie was never shown with any friends, so it's easy to believe she was completely taken in by a treacherous schemer like Treasure Doll. It will be very interesting to see how she gets along with Pilar. Stahma and Pilar together will be priceless.

[MDKNIGHT]

 

Then since Alak wasn't going to jail, she confesses all so that...I'm not quite sure. So that Alak can admire her strength in hurling whozis through the window?

 

 

She told him to both shame him in a -Look the women of this family have to do the heavy lifting-way and to scare him a little so that he doesn't pick up another hooker who will fall in love with him and endanger thier family.  She did it to teach him a lesson.  BTW Christie is so into the Casti thing that I suspect she'll be OK with new servant girl as Alak's concubine.  It is emplied that the Casti men have sex with thier servants and thier wives accept it because the servants know that they can't rise to the position of wife.  I would bet on the kids of the man of the house and a servant to be unable to inherit as his legitimate kids would come first.  The problem with TD from the Casti perspective was that she dared to think she'd become Alak's formal wife and his "princess" which NO WAY was that ever happening.  Personally I find zero cool about the Casti curture as it is similar to very patriarchal theocratic middle eastern customs and I feel sorry for Christie that she's bought into this being a good thing.

 

Totally agree that Christie is embracing the Casti thing as a way of gaining a mom in Stahma.  I can't wait to see what happens when (a) she finds out mom is alive (b) she realizes her father has been lying about it for so long and © Stahma and Sarah Conner go toe to toe over custody of Christie.  Sure she's a grown married woman but you know it won't matter because both of them will want to play mom to her and grandma to the baby so I expect fireworks.  Bet Pilar won't be having warm snuggly feelings toward Votan inlaws since she was being held by Votans.  Won't expect many smiles and singing at the McCauley/Tarr barbeques unless it is Stahma singing over somebody's dead body. 

[RealityGal]

I tried some snooping to see if he has an underlying health cause, as either way the gain seems sudden, but I can't even find any gossip sites talking trash about him, which is a silver lining. (Wouldn't fare so well if he was a she.)

I don't necessarily agree that one can prevent age-related physical decline entirely, but it's obvious the man knows how to take care of his body, and this does seem sudden, which is why I keep going back to "health issue".

 

Or perhaps he was auditioning for another role (maybe a movie role in the hiatus) that would have required a little weight gain?

[MDKNIGHT]

Even if the weight gain is unintentional I don't think it spoils the character.  He isn't supposed to be Achilles at the top of his form.  He's an ex soldier that has been beaten up a lot and probably been on a few benders and probably doesn't watch what he eats and probably drinks a little too much.  It wouldn't be unusual for such a guy to get a little paunchy as he ages.  Nobody is forcing him to do calistenics and go on a diet.

[raven]

I don't know about Christie trying to gain a mom in Stahma.   I think going to the club was because she wanted to do something outside of the marriage, to be more Casti and because she was pissed at Alak for being a mini crime lord.  She accepted the golf ball from Mercado which meant he could court her, unless I am misremembering. Could be that after the excitement of secret love & then being married, she was getting a little bored.

 

She didn't have a mother but seemed close to the rest of her family.  She didn't want to  wear the whatever it was on her head at the wedding (that Stahma wanted her to wear).  She must have an idea that Stahma is pulling the strings.  I wonder what she would think about Stahma guilting Alak into killing?  I like Stahma, she is a great character, but she is pretty much as much of a thug as Datak, just more subtle.

 

I think maybe Christie is being influenced by the baby; not just the heightened sense of smell.  Last season she took on the hellbug and defended Alak, so she can be tough.  Killing Deidre was accidental (she yells "stay away from my family" when she tosses her, so I don't think she was aiming to toss her out the window) and self defense.  Could be that the baby is influencing her to be more secretive as well as more Casti, to me the evidence would be clear that she was defending herself.  She took the poison home rather than wait around to show the EReps? Lawkeeper? whoever investigates.

 

Christie's embracing the Casti culture just seems so abrupt to me I wonder if there is another influence.  She didn't seem interested in that when she and Alak were just young lovers.  Alak's arc has been interesting too - he allows himself to be manipulated away from the record business, kills someone and seems to shrug off his hand being burned by his father.  He finds out his wife is sneaking around, has an affair and then ends it out of guilt and because he loves Christie, as long as she is NOT like his mother.  He has been jerked around this season, wonder if/when he will stand up for himself.

 

 

I love Nolan the way he is. He calls himself "an animal" and IMO just by recognizing his own roughness he mitigates it. A woman could do a lot worse than Nolan by her side when the going gets tough.

Yeah, I'm a Nolan fan.  He's like a twisted atypical bad guy with tarnished heart of gold.  He loves Irisa and will do anything for her and that's it.   She really hurt him with her accusations.  I loved the way he packed up Tommy and started dragging him for help.  I hope Tommy makes it, I like him too.

 

Really enjoying this season, last season was OK but this one has been a pleasant surprise.

Edited August 26, 2014 by raven

[shapeshifter]

... If she was just hiding the microphone under her own bed (instead of just Alak's,) well, that was as smart as we've seen her before....

Hmmm...maybe that is what happened: She hid the microphone under her bed. Was it Amanda who found it and assumed Alak hid it? If so, Amanda needs to find some old crime shows to watch and learn from.

...As for Grant Bowler, he's in a profession that revolves primarily on looks. I'm not judging him for putting on weight, just remarking on it, especially since the first few episodes often had him shirtless.

Seriously? I must've missed that. Must Google screen caps stat!

ETA: Okay. Here we go, 1.04:

Edited August 27, 2014 by shapeshifter

[raven]

 

Seriously? I must've missed that. Must Google screen caps stat!

*fans self*

 

I didn't notice in this ep that Nolan had put on a few pounds?  I can help him work it off :)

Edited August 27, 2014 by raven

[jhlipton]

Tommy's a black guy in a sci-fi show.  I've been terrified for him since day one.

 

 

Too true!

 

It is emplied that the Casti men have sex with thier servants and thier wives accept it because the servants know that they can't rise to the position of wife.  . 

 

Christie tells Alak something like  "Casti men have their needs and I understand that.  Just don't betray us."

[kieyra]

It's probably not fair to post a pic of GB during his True Blood run, since that show is notorious for causing actors and actresses to diet themselves into oblivion for their nude scenes, but here it is anyway:

 

[CletusMusashi]

Nolan gaining weight actually makes more sense than him not gaining weight. His life as Lawkeeper is actually no less violent than his life as scavenger was. What does he have as Lawkeeper, like one big fight an episode usually? And afterwards, he can relax. He doesn't have to go racing out of town like he used to.Plus, he has more lazy civilized options to amuse himself.

Healthy, already-prepared foods are commonplace. As are all kinds of drinks.

If he just wants to chill and listen to music while Irissa is busy, he can, because there's a radio station that plays a lot of his old favorites.

When he was on the road, he often had to do his own mechanical repairs. And, he carried heavy objects in and out of the car by himself. And, if the vehicle got stuck in the mud, he dug it out with muscle power, probably while having to kick hellbugs to death.  Now, he can get flunkies to handle the strenuous but boring jobs.

He might still work out a lot. But building thicker abdominal muscles does not eliminate subcutaneous fat without dieting and/or massive cardio.

As a big, strong middle-aged guy who suddenly finds himself not having to constantly flee for his life, climbing over fences and crawling through all kinds of terrain and whatnot, I think the change actually enhances the character.

[MDKNIGHT]

I wonder what she would think about Stahma guilting Alak into killing?

 

I think she knows.  She mentioned it as something he did for the family and seemed proud.  The guy did try to kill Stahma so it wasn't like he did it for giggles.

I don't think it is so weird that Chisty didn't just plead self defense.  What happens to people with the E-rep in power all depends on somebody's agenda not the law.  Pottinger hated her dad.  Pottinger is a fascist.  He can let Mengele and a murderer free or he can have innocent people executed.  It was quite possible he could refuse to believe self defense and throw her into a pit to force her loved ones to do something for him or just because it is Tuesday.  Seriously given what we've seen Would YOU trust the judicial system in Defiance?

Edited August 27, 2014 by MDKNIGHT

[maczero]

It seemed pretty clear to me that Treasure doll was Amanda's surrogate little sister.  TD was Amanda's Kenya since Kenya was gone.

 

 

I think Amanda seeing the poor girl being taken in to the Tarr home after her dad made the confession had given her a reason to start suspecting Stahma had something to do with Kenya's death. I think it showed on Amanda's face.

 

You know Amanda is going to be on the warpath when the Tarrs' dirty laundry is aired.  Datak killed her ex.  Stahma killed her sister.  Christie killed her friend and employee.

 

That's not true at all. Studies have shown that people can build muscle mass and improve their fitness into their 90s. There are dozens of videos on YouTube that show men 50, 60, 70 who are in fantastic shape, who attest to the fact that they're in better shape in their "middle age" than they were in their youth. Physical decline is not inevitable; it's a conscious decision on the part of the individual.

 

That's good to hear.  I can't stop the gray but at least I can still get ripped.

 

[AlliMo]

I think Christie did deliberately leave the microphone under Alak's bed knowing that whoever found it would go straight to Stahma with it. Once she found out about the affair and how far Treasure Doll was willing to go, she had to assume that Alak would end up the prime suspect. She was fine with him spending some time in jail as a lesson, because she was confident that Stahma would eventually take care of it, especially when she had possession of such convincing evidence. Her hero worship of Stahma may stem from naivete, but her confidence in her abilities is hardly unjustified.

Edited August 27, 2014 by AlliMo

[raven]

 

The guy did try to kill Stahma so it wasn't like he did it for giggles.

Yeah but he was in custody.  Stahma ordered Alak to do it for revenge/to save face.  Datak would have done it without being told and without thinking twice because it is his nature (like Stahma).

 

My thing with Christie is and the cover-up is that it is Casti behavior to cover-up; Deidre attacked Christie several times and as Nolan has a soft spot for Rafe, she is probably aware that her questioning would be gentle.  Alak they toss in jail (plus hidden evidence) but I don't think Christie would have ended up there during the investigation.  She didn't seem concerned about that anyway; to me her actions were unnatural for her.  Some other random person, sure, run and hide; I just wouldn't expect it of her, especially with the situation the way it happened; never mind bringing evidence into her home.  Now she is behaving like a member of a crime family (which she is) but to me there was no indication that she ever wanted that.  That's why I wonder if there is something else at work with her.

 

The whole scenario was just awkward to me - Deidre going all Fatal Attraction, the Amanda/Deidre bond, Christie's actions after the fight.  It just seems off IMO.

[RealityGal]

*fans self*

 

I didn't notice in this ep that Nolan had put on a few pounds?  I can help him work it off :)

 

I don't get your meaning here, are you going to send him some articles on how to do the perfect crunch, maybe suggest a good juice fast?  ;)

 

That's good to hear.  I can't stop the gray but at least I can still get ripped.

 

 

Or can't you??

 

[paramitch]

I'm just going through Season 2, and have really been enjoying it. It's a huge leap forward from last season, and all of the characters are richer and more complex. 

 

However, this episode just didn't work for me.

 

I liked everything in this episode except the main subplot about Deirdre/Treasure Doll. The flashbacks with Amanda were eye-rollingly heavy-handed and I just found the entire pseudo-friendship forced and unbelievable. It doesn't help that the actress who played the girl plays every single scene with the same bratty, porny edge, so not only do I not believe her suddenly revealed friendship with Amanda, I don't believe Amanda would have ever reacted to or advised Deirdre like that. The most I can envision in all the scenes of Deirdre babbling to Amanda about this obviously doomed relationship is that, in reality, Amanda would have patted her, tried to be kind yet businesslike, and would have also rolled her eyes while signalling the bartender to cut her off.

 

I did find it vaguely hilarious that Christie ever thought she was a legitimate friend. Deirdre was visibly sharpening her incisors with petulant rage in every scene they had together. (Also, what a weird, weird "breakfast" Deirdre prepares for them -- chocolate covered strawberries? Really?)

 

I just think the writing around this particular character has been painfully weak. She was basically painted as being grasping, vindictive, and hard as nails, then we'd get these awkward "softer" moments for her character with both Christie and Amanda but for me they just never came off convincingly.

 

I think the character would have been so much richer and more interesting if they'd made the character softer from the beginning -- it would have added real pathos. Instead, her being such a schemer willing to seduce, betray, blackmail and even kill just came across as stereotypical to me. I would have found it so much more interesting if she hadn't been so cartoonish.