Tár (2022)

[MicheleinPhilly]

I was fortunate enough to attend an advance screening of this last night and I am ALL ABOARD the "Cate Blanchett deserves a 3rd Oscar" train. 

I will keep specific thoughts to myself for the time being as I believe it is only being released in NY and LA this weekend with a wider release at the end of the month, but overall, I thought it was fascinating. 

I'm really looking forward to discussing this with others as they see it.

And I really hope we don't have to wait another 16 years for Todd Field to make another film. 👍

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Trailer

[AimingforYoko]

Short review: Tár (the character) was trash and Cate Blanchett was mesmerizing. She's a lock for an Oscar nom and probably the frontrunner.

I did like how they left it vague with how culpable she was (although those e-mails were damning)but perfectly obvious she was a bad person and absolutely deserved her cancellation.

[StatisticalOutlier]

21 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

perfectly obvious she was a bad person

It was eventually obvious.  I very much appreciated how information was handed out in little bits, sometimes vague, because it makes me feel like the director respects me.  At one point, I realized I was sitting there with my jaw agape, and it took me a little bit to be ready to close it. 

I have a habit of forgetting the final scene in movies, but don't think that's gonna happen in this case.  The choice of the panning shot was perfection.

[kiddo82]

I liked the scene in the master class and it coming back around.  Honestly, I didn't think she was wrong.  We can agree or disagree with her sentiments about separating art from artists but that in and of itself doesn't make her a bad person.  A lot of other things that came to light make her a bad person.  But I like that there are layers and nuance there.  If someone unproblematic had given the same speech, even though that video was clearly doctored, they'd be given the benefit of the doubt and her team literally tells her that.  

One thing I didn't understand was when she was being chased by the dog.  What happened to Olga?  Did Lydia--excuse me--Linda hallucinate that?  I couldn't figure that out.

I love Cate Blanchett in just about everything she does.  Her performance here is worth the price of admission alone.

[MicheleinPhilly]

On 10/30/2022 at 5:12 PM, StatisticalOutlier said:

It was eventually obvious.  I very much appreciated how information was handed out in little bits, sometimes vague, because it makes me feel like the director respects me.  At one point, I realized I was sitting there with my jaw agape, and it took me a little bit to be ready to close it. 

On 10/30/2022 at 7:35 PM, kiddo82 said:

I liked the scene in the master class and it coming back around.  Honestly, I didn't think she was wrong.  We can agree or disagree with her sentiments about separating art from artists but that in and of itself doesn't make her a bad person.  A lot of other things that came to light make her a bad person.  But I like that there are layers and nuance there.  If someone unproblematic had given the same speech, even though that video was clearly doctored, they'd be given the benefit of the doubt and her team literally tells her that.  

This is what I appreciated the most about this film. Field didn't spoon feed our reaction to her behavior to us. And when I find pretty much all current conversation about pretty much every issue these days to be lacking in any sort of nuance or "gray area", I found it very refreshing. 

It has been a month since I've seen it and I still think it about it on an almost daily basis. I'm excited for it to be available via streaming because I want to see it again to catch things I know I've missed. 

[txhorns79]

This was a hard movie.  I felt like it was in deep need of an editor.  Blanchett is very good, but the movie drags through a very long feeling first hour (complete with five or so minutes of acknowledgments at the beginning of the film) before it really gets down to business.  Lydia Tar is definitely not a good person, but clearly has real talent and drive.  Before the movie has her really go off the rails, they do a good job of showing why she is at the top of her field.      

[Browncoat]

Not an enjoyable movie to watch, but damn, it was good.  It probably could have used a bit of editing to reduce the run time, but at the same time, it was good to have all the lead-up and backstory of just how remarkable Lydia was and all the hints and tidbits of what a terrible person she was as well.  It's so clear that she was a predator -- attempting to groom Olga just as she did Francesca and Krista.  But I loved that the movie never actually came out and said it.  We, the audience, actually had to think about things and come to our own conclusions.  Some of the people I saw it with actually asked me what the ending was all about (they didn't quite get that she was fired).  

Cate Blanchett deserves all of the awards.  She truly inhabited Lydia/Linda and was mesmerizing to watch.  In the class at Juilliard, before we really knew that she was a shit person, I was telling her in my head not to pick on the guy so much.  Her defense of the video that it shouldn't have been posted because that was a "non-tech zone" is so typical of people who've been caught.  I suspect Francesca.

It might have been a little more meaningful if I knew more about classical music and how orchestras work, but the power dynamic is translatable to other workplaces, I think.  The one thing I didn't understand, but would like to, is the meaning of the notation the musician wrote on the score after Lydia was hauled out of the performance.  I'm not exactly sure what he wrote or what it meant, other than the performance was stopped.  

[MicheleinPhilly]

On 11/27/2022 at 1:50 AM, txhorns79 said:

This was a hard movie.  I felt like it was in deep need of an editor.  Blanchett is very good, but the movie drags through a very long feeling first hour (complete with five or so minutes of acknowledgments at the beginning of the film) before it really gets down to business. 

The screening I went to was delayed about 30 minutes because of projection issues. When it finally started and that long sequence of credits started running, we all thought we were seeing the end of the film accidently. People actually began turning to one another and saying, "Is it broken?" 

It was an odd choice, for sure. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

22 hours ago, Browncoat said:

Cate Blanchett deserves all of the awards.  She truly inhabited Lydia/Linda and was mesmerizing to watch.  In the class at Juilliard, before we really knew that she was a shit person, I was telling her in my head not to pick on the guy so much.  Her defense of the video that it shouldn't have been posted because that was a "non-tech zone" is so typical of people who've been caught.  I suspect Francesca.

I thought it was Krista because throughout the film, we see the back of a redhead watching Lydia in several scenes. Although she's never identified IIRC, they were definitely implying that Krista was obsessed with her following what I assume was a romantic relationship. 

There is a sort of gauzy scene at the end of Lydia and a redhead that I assumed was a flashback. 

[Browncoat]

3 hours ago, MicheleinPhilly said:

I thought it was Krista because throughout the film, we see the back of a redhead watching Lydia in several scenes. Although she's never identified IIRC, they were definitely implying that Krista was obsessed with her following what I assume was a romantic relationship. 

There is a sort of gauzy scene at the end of Lydia and a redhead that I assumed was a flashback. 

I don't recall the timing of Krista's suicide and the posting of the video -- do those line up?  I think that's why I suspected Francesca.  She was definitely there in the class, and absolutely disappointed (gutted?  betrayed?) when Lydia chose someone else (especially that she chose a man) to replace Sebastian (the assistant conductor).  It made an outstanding revenge video.

[MicheleinPhilly]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

I don't recall the timing of Krista's suicide and the posting of the video -- do those line up?  I think that's why I suspected Francesca.  She was definitely there in the class, and absolutely disappointed (gutted?  betrayed?) when Lydia chose someone else (especially that she chose a man) to replace Sebastian (the assistant conductor).  It made an outstanding revenge video.

I definitely got the impression that Krista's suicide didn't happen until later in the film but both she and Francesca certainly had the motive for posting it. And Francesca's actions with the book - writing RAT over TAR - certainly suggests that she was 10,000% done with Lydia. 

That's why I'm so looking forward to watching it again to hopefully have some of my questions answered. 

[Spartan Girl]

Watched it on Peacock. I swear that the scream that Lydia hears in the park was the same one as the ending to The Blair Witch Project.

Cate was great, but she’s got two already and I really want Michelle Yeoh to win.

[Simon Boccanegra]

On 1/28/2023 at 5:14 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Watched it on Peacock. I swear that the scream that Lydia hears in the park was the same one as the ending to The Blair Witch Project.

It was, indeed, repurposed Heather Donahue audio.

This movie doesn't let anyone off lightly, does it? All of these characters are "transactional" or otherwise morally compromised. Lydia, Francesca, Eliot, Olga, maybe even Sharon (the easiest character to like).

I'm not even sure Lydia's e-mails that we see to (real) famous conductors about Krista are wrong in and of themselves. They would be wrong if they were done vengefully, but they look like responses to inquiries. If Krista was prone to stalking, which is one reading of what we see (still following around an ex-lover and sending her unwelcome gifts, Lydia's comment about how she began to make demands), should Lydia have given her peers in the conducting world glowing recommendations, potentially making Krista the problem of some woman in another orchestra? Not that I think protecting others was Lydia's primary objective. She was trying to bury her own mistake.

Krista's "Where's Waldo?" appearances hiding around a corner in Lydia's Berlin studio and in the bedroom when Lydia hears the little girl screaming (the latter definitely coming after the suicide) are very creepy. 

I would not have wanted to lose any run time from this, personally. It's obviously Kubrick-influenced (Field played Nick the pianist in Eyes Wide Shut), and it has some of the same breadth and its own insistent timetable.

Also, "Apartment for Sale" was robbed of a Best Original Song nomination. Ha.  

On 11/27/2022 at 11:35 AM, Browncoat said:

The one thing I didn't understand, but would like to, is the meaning of the notation the musician wrote on the score after Lydia was hauled out of the performance.  I'm not exactly sure what he wrote or what it meant, other than the performance was stopped.  

There are some real-life stories of tragic events in music, such as the baritone Leonard Warren dying on the Met stage during a performance of La forza del destino (he had just sung the Italian words for "To die! What a tremendous thing!"), and someone in the orchestra usually has the historical foresight to mark the spot in the score when this happens. Lydia did not literally die, but he was marking the spot when her career may have been over.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Simon Boccanegra
"To die!" rather than "Death!"

[Frisky Wig]

I watched this tonight and Cates performance was astounding. There were parts I couldn’t understand until I read the synopsis on IMDB, like why she vomited out side of the massage parlor in the Philippines when masseuse #5 made eye contact with her. I was confused though, at the end shot, the camera panning to people in costumes. Is the movie saying she went from this amazing career to playing for a concert hall of cosplayers? It didn’t make sense. 

[Browncoat]

8 hours ago, Frisky Wig said:

Is the movie saying she went from this amazing career to playing for a concert hall of cosplayers? It didn’t make sense. 

It is.  She was fired from her high-powered conductor position, and could not get another job with a well-known symphony.  At the end, she was conducting a small group who were playing the soundtrack to a video game for a bunch of cosplaying gamers, probably at a small, local con.

[Wiendish Fitch]

10 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

It is.  She was fired from her high-powered conductor position, and could not get another job with a well-known symphony.  At the end, she was conducting a small group who were playing the soundtrack to a video game for a bunch of cosplaying gamers, probably at a small, local con.

On top of all that, Lydia Tar, certified control freak, has to conduct to a click track, the final dent to her dignity.

[Simon Boccanegra]

On 3/11/2023 at 11:57 AM, Wiendish Fitch said:

On top of all that, Lydia Tar, certified control freak, has to conduct to a click track, the final dent to her dignity.

Yes. It contrasts with her lofty comments about time in the opening interview scene with Gopnik. "You cannot start without me. I start the clock."

[Milburn Stone]

On 10/30/2022 at 6:35 PM, kiddo82 said:

I liked the scene in the master class and it coming back around.  Honestly, I didn't think she was wrong. 

I agree with you. I loved Lydia in that scene. 

I mean, in real life, I find it near-impossible to justify the deliberate humiliation of anyone, but in the movie...well that ignorant dude needed humiliating--500 years of Western Civilization hung in the balance--and Lydia Tàr was just the woman to do it.

But I didn't love it "coming back around." It killed me that someone in that class used it against her.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Milburn Stone

[Blergh]

Question: How is it pronounced differently from the unaccented 'tar' (as in tar pits)?

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

Question: How is it pronounced differently from the unaccented 'tar' (as in tar pits)?

I don't recall it being pronounced differently from that in the movie. 

It's an interesting made-up name. It sounds like "tar"--the kind you can fall in and can't get out of, and also the kind you can have slathered on you by people out to ruin your reputation. But the accent grave makes it exotic. I know nothing of the Estonian language, but if I had to guess where the Tàr clan originated, I'd go with that country.

[Simon Boccanegra]

In the Staten Island scene, in which school awards and diplomas are visible, we see that her birth name was "Linda Tarr." This sort of exoticization of name happens sometimes with artistic people, for example, the filmmaker Lars Trier giving himself a "von." At least she didn't go as far as the conductor Leopold Stokowski, who concealed his Englishness with a faux Middle European accent.

The Wikipedia page we see someone (presumably Francesca) editing tells us that Lydia's father was Zoltán Tarr, an Hungarian immigrant.

[Schweedie]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:05 PM, Simon Boccanegra said:

Yes. It contrasts with her lofty comments about time in the opening interview scene with Gopnik. "You cannot start without me. I start the clock."

I liked how that comment came back around - I was slow on the uptake and it wasn't obvious to me that she was fired from her job until the Mahler recording performance actually started and she wasn't out there. I thought she was hiding in the bathroom because she was nervous and then she was standing there as if she was preparing to make a grand entrance - and then they started playing without her. That was a nice touch. (Although in retrospect it was odd that the man standing next to her playing from backstage didn't so much as give her a look, I would've thought he would be uncomfortable to see her there.)

[Simon Boccanegra]

Here is another "score-marking" event in fairly recent music history. Early 21st century, at least. I looked for a non-paywalled link.  

https://www.southcoasttoday.com/story/news/nation-world/2001/04/22/giuseppe-sinopoli-italian-conductor-dies/50359679007/

Edited March 18, 2023 by Simon Boccanegra

[DevilsDetails]

Finally watched this. Cate's performance was devastating. Can't get it out of my head; not sure I ever will.

I'm old, so that's a lot of stuff to compare it to.

[SlovakPrincess]

This movie starts with 15 minutes of utter boredom, starts to get interesting and build intrigue and then at the very end sort of devolves into lunacy.  I did enjoy it and Cate Blanchett was awesome as always ... but that had some weird notes and odd choices in it, too.  

Did we ever figure out if it was just Francesa texting and filming her the whole time?  Who was she texting with?  And was Olga feeding someone information from the NY trip?  Some of the Olga stuff was just odd ... like where did she actually live when she was having Lydia drop her off at an abandoned building?  

I'm not sure Lydia's hallucinations really added anything to the film.