S04.E05: Work Ethic!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

One time I was gonna be an extra on this TV show but then they started asking me about Social Security numbers and taxes and being up there at 5am. I know y'all ain't doing that with Taraji. 

Original air date 2022.10.

[JenE4]

Okay. This episode finally broke my unwavering enchantment with this show. I sat here stunned for the last season and a half as some members of this board complained about various episodes not being good. IMO, This show is always brilliant! But I admit that this episode just wasn’t great. I’m not going so far as to say that this show has jumped the shark, but just that this episode would be at the bottom if I ranked the episodes. It would have been great as a B plot, but there just wasn’t enough to make this the entire plot of the episode. I liked the Teddy Perkins version of Tyler Perry—and loved the clomping on the piano to write the scripts. But just having Van run from the John Witherspoon soundstage to another Black actor’s soundstage for a half hour was a bit tedious. But that being said, I might not have gotten the jokes. My son regularly quotes all of the Tyler Perry movies—especially Madea—so I bet he probably would have gotten a kick out of it. But although he’s seen all of these movies enough to quote them, he says how terrible they are—and even though the trailers tend to sell them as comedies, they always have a really tragic storyline. So I’m assuming all of the background characters were Tyler Perry trope—the parolee maintenance worker love interest, the kind older women with the gun, let alone the characters in the show, such as the neglectful mother, though I doubt TP would have her eating a whole crack sandwich, lol. Though, if these are supposed to be “Black empowerment” movies/shows, highlighting ex-cons and drug addicts as “representative” of the culture is highly problematic! But I guess that was also the point of the show, that TP is exploiting his own culture and yet it’s revered by “Black awards”…because there aren’t many other options? (Exceptions for writers/directors such as Jordan Peele who creates thought-provoking, Black-led content that all races/cultures celebrate.) Also, maybe we needed this episode to “redeem” Van as a mother. Last season none of us questioned that Earn went on the European tour, but a lot of us were shocked and appalled that Van just up and left Lottie and were worried about the breakdown she seemed to be having. That little scene with Lottie talking with the drug-addicted mother, not to mention chasing her around the whole production lot, reminded Van—and us viewers—that Van has put down her own version of whatever crack sandwich she was eating in Europe, and is entirely focused on protecting her child. Okay, I think I convinced myself that it’s just my own lack of knowledge about Tyler Perry’s film catalogue that got in my way of fully getting this episode, so it was probably funnier and smarter than I can give it credit for. I definitely had some chuckles—Shout out to Ain’t Crazy and Still Ain’t Crazy.

Edited October 7, 2022 by JenE4

[possibilities]

I've also really liked and respected the show, but I'm honestly getting incredibly bored with the show biz context that has taken over. I realize they use that framing to highlight more than just show biz, but I still don't care about or find the framing interesting. I was much more interested in the everyday Atlanta or the struggling not-wealthy Earn, Van, et al. 

I suppose they write what they know, and now that Glover et al have hit the big bucks they are telling stories from within that frame. But I actually don't think it's very effective because who honestly gives a fuck about the insanity of people who don't need the job to survive but decided to subject themselves to the crap because they lost perspective on how much money is enough? It just makes them look stupid complicit and self-pitying, not trapped by the system they're caught up in.

I'm just getting past saturation point with trying to identify with or care about these knobs.

[AngieBee1]

We get another Teddy Perkins -esque episode this season with -instead of a Michael Jackson stand-in - we have a Tyler Perry stand-in with Kirkwood Chocolate and Chocolate Studios (a Willy Wonka stand-in, too).

Whereas THE BOONDOCKS went after Tyler Perry for his presumed sexuality, ATLANTA attacked on all fronts - from the lack of quality control, the churning through of projects and the questionable depictions, terrible scripts and the equally terrible wigs, the show actually went easier on him than I thought they would. I think they actually went harder on consumers of Tyler Perry's projects than man himself. I feel they used Issa Rae's red-carpet remark on the Emmys red carpet about "rooting for everybody Black" as a bad-faith interpretation by framing it that Black people will root for anyone Black despite the quality of the work. Which isn't true and the writers know it's true considering Glover has lamented that while ATLANTA was off-air there were Black people saying DAVE was the better show yet people call him a sell-out. So is it okay for Black people to blindly support Black creatives if it's their product only?

There's a whiff of elitism when it comes to people knocking Tyler Perry's work. I am no way a Tyler Perry fan but I really respect that he is a self-made man. Before he even did a feature film he was a millionaire because his plays and recordings of those plays were hits. He is certainly serving an audience. It's the same way comics looked down on the Blue Collar Comedy Tour but those tours were a success because Ron White, Bill Engvall, Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the Cable Guy's comedy spoke to a specific crowd. To act like those acts and type of comedy is less than, just because it doesn't rise to the presumed better (higher brow) level of comedy than others is a slap to the face of the audiences who enjoy the comedy. Not everything is for everyone and that's okay. If people want to watch morality plays (even if the morality presented is questionable), there's nothing wrong with that.

Now the true issue is that Perry churns out the work and that scene of Kirkwood on the piano that churns out scripts is the play on the infinite monkey theorem. There's no quality but it doesn't matter because Kirkwood knows people will buy what he is selling. He has become a god of his own kingdom so it doesn't matter how his drive affects other people (fix it in post when post is overwhelmed? Not my problem. A mother wants her daughter back? Sorry, I just shoehorned her into several projects). But, again, to give credit where credit is due: while the entertainment industry was still trying to find a path back to work during Covid, they turned to Perry because he successfully went back into production on two shows with Covid bubbles and mandatory testing.

I think the elitism issue was mirrored onto Van where Kirkwood showed her how her life was following the many tropes in his work. Van sometimes comes across as someone who is above-it-all, so that was her takedown moment of, "You may be different from these other people in a lot of ways, but you are not better.

-Loved seeing Lottie. It's been a long time coming.

-The soundstages being named after Tommy "Tiny" Lister, John Witherspoon and Mario Van Peebles was really funny, but also gratifying because there's a reason the term "Black Famous" exists. Maybe Tiny and John doesn't deserve a filmstage named after them but Mario does. And it's this -even jokingly - tip of the hat to their careers is why those Black awards Van seemingly pooh-poohed are important. There are very talented, very marginalized Black performers who are ignored by other awards bodies. Hell, even the Asian Excellence Awards honoured Rob Schneider because during a time he was a hitmaker even if his films weren't respected.

-I don't know what is funnier: Kirkwood sipping grits, offering Van "a grit" or being able to shake off a grits attack. Al Green wishes he learned how to do that.

-Shamik was so handsome! Why did they ruin it with him trying to get a leg over with Van in the boiler room? Also, his hotness to me was funny because people think Tyler Perry is gay because he casts all of these very hot men of questionable acting abilities.

-Kirkwood saying that Lottie will make enough money to last until she's 20 (or something to that effect) was hilarious. And typical of Tyler Perry productions. The only person getting paid is Perry.

[Racj82]

Ahh so I'm back to being confused by Atlanta critiques. It was a good run.

This show has always took shots at the industry. That's the backbone of the show.

This show has always been all over the place. Our leads may have been more front and center at times but it's still the same thing.

I don't think Glover wants anything but for the show to be accepted for what it is instead of what people want from it. I feel like there is too much talk about what this show is instead of just enjoying the show or just watching it in general. I've never seen a show where there can never be a discussion about it without talking about some bigger issue related to the show.

There are tons of black people I know that only watch things with predominantly black casts. Black people who solely support black people at award shows. Black people that will watch anything Perry churns out. Quality does not matter at all. So, all of this was fair game to lampoon.

And...I laughed my ass off. Especially the scene where the woman that became Lottie's mom in the scene talk to Lottie like she was an adult, walked out, didn't close the door all the way and just stay on that side of the set. We'll fix it in post! Just funny shit.

This was also a little subversive in that Perry really is telling a lot of stories of what black people go through every damn day. His execution and almost wallowing in the shitty parts is where he fails the most.

[heatherchandler]

3 hours ago, AngieBee1 said:

We get another Teddy Perkins -esque episode this season with -instead of a Michael Jackson stand-in - we have a Tyler Perry stand-in with Kirkwood Chocolate and Chocolate Studios (a Willy Wonka stand-in, too).

And Wizard of Oz.

[Crashcourse]

The funniest thing to me was when that lady aimed and shot that dude in the foot.

[aghst]

Never seen anything by Perry.  It looks like quickly-churned out mediocrity.

Don't know anything about the politics of black awards or whether it's a big deal to take down a very successful black artist.

I remember some black guys were touting numbers reflecting Michael Jackson's success, like how much money his tours and records were grossing, like it was a sign of collective black talent rather than the unique talent of an individual black artist.

I thought Perry's success was that his movies crossed over and appealed to non-black audiences as well?

Sometimes it seems like what individual characters have gone through in previous episodes has little or no bearing on their situation or what they go through in later episodes.  Hard to link this Van the protective mother with the Van on her European lark, making the scene with some French hipsters.

A lot of the practical aspects of the lives of these characters are hard to square.  For instance, two seasons ago, Earn and Van were both struggling.  Now though, Earn is making enough money to throw it away on therapists, as Alfred alleged.  Earn will also burn money to spite someone who've done them wrong.

So why is Van struggling to feed Lottie as Kirkwood claimed?  And was that an Escalade that she drove to the studio?  She quit her job to go to Europe but now she was going to do this gig to be an extra?

The other episode centering on Van that I can recall was the time she went out as party girls, driven secretly to some place which was suppose to be owned by Drake and she's going through his closets.

Is this episode suppose to show that she's going to be serious about being a mother?  She passes up a chance to make easy money from her daughter because Kirkwood is this manipulative purveyor of mediocrity.  No more chasing stars or whatever she was chasing in Europe?  Is she going to prioritize Lottie over herself?

[Racj82]

44 minutes ago, aghst said:

I thought Perry's success was that his movies crossed over and appealed to non-black audiences as well?

Incorrect. Perry has a very devoted fanbase that will support basically anything he does from his plays to his movies. That's how he garnered his stardom. It was not by crossing over.

And Van is not struggling to support Lottie. In that, Lottie is supported. But, Van has been struggling to fine her focus and be able to provide for Lottie on her side. She was the responsible one when the series started. Now, she is floundering like Earn was. She just hasn't found her way yet. People also often don't want to rely on others to support their child even if the other person is a parent.

[heatherchandler]

On 10/7/2022 at 4:44 PM, Racj82 said:

I don't think Glover wants anything but for the show to be accepted for what it is instead of what people want from it. I feel like there is too much talk about what this show is instead of just enjoying the show or just watching it in general. I've never seen a show where there can never be a discussion about it without talking about some bigger issue related to the show.

He’s following the David Chase (Sopranos) model.  I have so much respect for that.  People complain that they want something different, they are sick of the formulaic tv shows.  Chase, and now Glover do something truly different and people complain!  And sometimes for good reason.  But I think when you take chances, the end result may not be great.  But I applaud the effort to do something unique.  
 

Was that Glover playing Mr. Chocolate?

Edited October 8, 2022 by heatherchandler

[possibilities]

Honestly, the show seems like something Jordan Peele would produce. 

[tennisgurl]

I'm a bit surprised that its taken us this long to get a Tyler Perry episode, he's right in their backyard. He's such a big part of black entertainment, for better or for worse, as the episode spelled out, there are people that will just watch anything he puts out just because they want to see black people on their screen. I cant say that I am a fan of Tyler Perry's output, mainly because they aren't very good, but I can at least respect his...work ethic. If nothing else, he does get a lot done (albeit probably because every one of his scripts is basically the same) he does speak to a specific demographic, and he has worked his way up from nothing. Unfortunately his output is also pretty lazy because, again, people will just watch anything he creates, regardless of quality. I cracked up at Not Tyler Perry telling Van how she's become one of his protagonists, which I saw coming as soon as the hot light skinned guy she was talking to said he was previously in prison, that is such a thing in those movies. Women always find themselves starting with some asshole dark skinned guy then later finding some perfect recently released light skinned ex con, I have only seen a few Tyler Perry movies and even I have caught that one. Rather unfair to call Van a struggling mother who cant provide for Lottie, she seems to be doing fine providing for her, Van's issue is more that she needs to figure out what she wants in life.

Tyler Perry is not only Willy Wonka, he's also the Wizard of Oz, which honestly both make a lot of sense. 

Nice seeing Lottie again, she's such a cutie. 

[DearEvette]

First, I have to say that Little Simz song 'Point and Kill' that played over the part where Van went on the warpath is my JAM!  I listened to that song on repeat last year!

Tyler Perry serves an under-served audience and his hustle gets my respect.  There are people who enjoy what he produces and people get to like what they like.  And he makes money because there is a big enough market for it to make it profitable.  At the end of the day, if what he delivers is a desirable product whether it is 'good' or not is a matter of taste and whatever  rubric you use for 'good.'  Dear White People did a pretty nuanced look at Tyler Perry and the debate about the value he brings and who gets to define that.

That said, Tyler Perry really is ripe for satire  There are elements of what he does that is almost parody in and of itself.  I actually laughed quite a bit at this episode. I was waiting to see how bad the wig they gave Vanessa cuz I knew they were gonna put a bad wig on her.  Honestly, it was not as bad as some of the wigs that have graced the scenes of a Tyler Perry shows.  So yeah, I was this until Van got to the Teddy Perkins-esque part where she confronts Mr. Chocolate.  That is when it got self indulgent and I think, much like Perry dialogue, it became too obvious and on the nose. 

Anyway, I leave you with Little Simz

[aghst]

McDonalds makes a lot of money, serves a huge customer base.

Doesn't mean it's good.

[AngieBee1]

Work Ethic!

[Bluesky]

On 10/8/2022 at 6:49 PM, heatherchandler said:

He’s following the David Chase (Sopranos) model.  I have so much respect for that.  People complain that they want something different, they are sick of the formulaic tv shows.  Chase, and now Glover do something truly different and people complain!  And sometimes for good reason.  But I think when you take chances, the end result may not be great.  But I applaud the effort to do something unique.  
 

Was that Glover playing Mr. Chocolate?

I think it started as something different, interesting but the last two seasons had some ripped from the headlines episodes which is not all that original or different.  Also the worst Black and White stereotypes in almost every episode.  

[Bluesky]

On 10/8/2022 at 1:21 PM, Racj82 said:

Incorrect. Perry has a very devoted fanbase that will support basically anything he does from his plays to his movies. That's how he garnered his stardom. It was not by crossing over.

And Van is not struggling to support Lottie. In that, Lottie is supported. But, Van has been struggling to fine her focus and be able to provide for Lottie on her side. She was the responsible one when the series started. Now, she is floundering like Earn was. She just hasn't found her way yet. People also often don't want to rely on others to support their child even if the other person is a parent.

I’ve never watched Perry’s movies but I can see the appeal.   
 

Van did say she did the job because she needed the money which was surprising because it looked like she was doing well.   Van might not want to rely on others but Earn is not “others” he’s her father and has the same desire to support his child as the mother does.   Based on Van’s new home and car looks like he is contributing generously.  

[Racj82]

10 hours ago, Bluesky said:

I’ve never watched Perry’s movies but I can see the appeal.   
 

Van did say she did the job because she needed the money which was surprising because it looked like she was doing well.   Van might not want to rely on others but Earn is not “others” he’s her father and has the same desire to support his child as the mother does.   Based on Van’s new home and car looks like he is contributing generously.  

People still want their own independence. Especially with Van who has been carrying the load for so long. Yes, it must feel good to not have to shoulder the burden of the weight but I don't think she wants to Depend on him to take care of her child. We've also had the episode where the worry became that Van would be one of the exes left in purgatory. Even though Earn assured her he would not do that, I'm sure it's still a fear. Thus, she needs to be able to take care of her child without his support.

[Bluesky]

On 10/13/2022 at 9:36 AM, Racj82 said:

People still want their own independence. Especially with Van who has been carrying the load for so long. Yes, it must feel good to not have to shoulder the burden of the weight but I don't think she wants to Depend on him to take care of her child. We've also had the episode where the worry became that Van would be one of the exes left in purgatory. Even though Earn assured her he would not do that, I'm sure it's still a fear. Thus, she needs to be able to take care of her child without his support.

It should be both of them not just Earn or Van.   You say her child but it’s his child too.  
It was just weird for her to claim she was acting because she needed the money.  She’s qualified for a number of steady jobs, I don’t remember if they said why she didn’t have one.   Also I don’t get why she always looks so miserable.  

[Racj82]

13 minutes ago, Bluesky said:

It should be both of them not just Earn or Van.   You say her child but it’s his child too.  
It was just weird for her to claim she was acting because she needed the money.  She’s qualified for a number of steady jobs, I don’t remember if they said why she didn’t have one.   Also I don’t get why she always looks so miserable.  

When I say her child it's because I'm talking about Van’s thought process. She wants to be able to provide for her child independent of Earn. As she always has before Earn cleaned himself up. She doesn't want to depend on him to take care of herself or their child. They aren't really together like that and if Earn loses himself again or leave them behind (which is a fear they explored earlier this season), she needs to be stable.

Van's mindset has been scattered since she got fired. It happens to a lot of people. We've literally seen with Earn. But, it was him getting expelled from school. That broke him for multiple reasons. People bitch about the use of Van on the show. Or say she's aimless. She just hasn't found her purpose. As a individual. She doesn't seem to want to teach anymore but what are her goals beyond that? She doesn't know. I just hope the show ends with her finding her way.

[aghst]

Earn has money to burn on hiring actors to ruin that TSA woman's life.

As Al said, Earn has made so much money from managing Al's career that Earn could go to therapy.

So she doesn't want any of his money for their daughter's welfare?

But they've hinted that she's generally suffering from some malaise.  So she quit her job to go to Europe and haven't worked since?

That does make it a tougher ask, if she's not even working, to ask Earn for some help.  It could be worst, she could take him to court.  Whatever the reasons, she doesn't have money to take care of her child but he does.

It's perfectly valid for her not to take certain jobs that she doesn't believe in.  Or to use her daughter to make some income.  But would she ask him for help if they're going hungry or are on the verge of being homeless?

[possibilities]

I thought Van got fired from her teaching job because she failed a drug test and faked the urine by using Lottie's (and then confessed, so they had no choice but to fire her)?

Since then, I can't remember any other work other than her part on the human hand business.

Earn would be on the hook for child support whether she worked or not, but he doesn't seem to be resisting paying it, so she wouldn't have to take him to court over it.

I think Van is an unreliable narrator. Maybe she wanted to try to acting thing for the money (why not?) or maybe she just wanted to try it for the adventure. We don't seem to have any view at all into her internal life anymore. She didn't seem to think it was so bad until they basically kidnapped Lottie. 

[Racj82]

There is nothing to suggest Earn isn't supporting Lottie or Van.

The point is that Van isn't and that's not what she wants.

[aghst]

In the latest episode, Earn proposed that they pay $10,000 each for sneakers rather than kiss to get the sneakers.