shantown September 18, 2022 Share September 18, 2022 The first two parts of this documentary air on Wednesday, September 21, 2022 beginning at 8:00pm eastern on MTV. Part 1, airing at 8pm: This is the true story...of how cast members from The Real World and Road Rules came together to compete for cash and prizes on The Challenge and ended up taking a small 90s cable show to heights no one could have conceived. Part 2, airing at 9pm: Twenty seasons in, the evolution of The Challenge had only just begun as it transformed into a reality competition soap-opera that thrives on cinematic themes, intense games, and a wealth of cast history. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/
AntFTW September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 (edited) When they started their segment on TJ and about how he doesn't like quitters, it was such a serious part of the show. There I was with my straight face watching the segment, and the one thing that cracked me was... the clip of Jay crying on Exes 2 when he quits, and TJ looking at him like "are you crying?" Also, I remember being salty as fuck that they brought in people from other shows on Exes 2. I damn sure didn't ask for AYTO cast members. I remember thinking "I hope this isn't permanent." Edited September 22, 2022 by AntFTW 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7662778
shantown September 22, 2022 Author Share September 22, 2022 My favorite part was the Hurricane Toga Party. That was such defining moment of the early challenges (and my adolescence). That season was the first time it wasn't strictly RW vs RR, the first glimpses of the party/hookup atmosphere, the start of larger casts. I wish there would have been more time spent on that first run of early challenges, like the first 10 seasons. The pre-TJ era was so different with more goofy challenges, rotating hosts, a variety of themes/formats to the game. In the first hour alone they blew through the early seasons, the evolution of hosting, and touched briefly on the sexism/gender divide. All those things alone could have been their own 20 minute segment! Maybe they'll loop back around to some of things, but I was hoping for more time spent on the "Dawn of the Empire." How did those early conversations about adding in eliminations and other changes to the format go? How did they decide who was in the first cast, or really any of the first casts? How did they come up with creative and unique challenges? On a shoestring budget no less! The contrast of bedframe races and bellyflops in mud compared to now with an (assumed) extremely high budget and every competition is a rotation of run really far, jump from really high, eat something really gross. I'd love to know more about those early "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" days. They touched on the challengers (and TJ) being a family and the introductions of exes, family members, rivals, etc. I wish again there was more time spent on those relationships being built and introduced as future gameplay. Maybe that's a little too "behind the curtain" for them though. Overall, I loved hearing from challengers and producers about their experiences. It definitely left me wanting more, so that's a good thing I guess? 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7662844
AntFTW September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 18 minutes ago, shantown said: My favorite part was the Hurricane Toga Party. That was such defining moment of the early challenges (and my adolescence). That season was the first time it wasn't strictly RW vs RR, the first glimpses of the party/hookup atmosphere, the start of larger casts. I wish there would have been more time spent on that first run of early challenges, like the first 10 seasons. The pre-TJ era was so different with more goofy challenges, rotating hosts, a variety of themes/formats to the game. In the first hour alone they blew through the early seasons, the evolution of hosting, and touched briefly on the sexism/gender divide. All those things alone could have been their own 20 minute segment! Maybe they'll loop back around to some of things, but I was hoping for more time spent on the "Dawn of the Empire." How did those early conversations about adding in eliminations and other changes to the format go? How did they decide who was in the first cast, or really any of the first casts? How did they come up with creative and unique challenges? On a shoestring budget no less! The contrast of bedframe races and bellyflops in mud compared to now with an (assumed) extremely high budget and every competition is a rotation of run really far, jump from really high, eat something really gross. I'd love to know more about those early "throw it against the wall and see what sticks" days. They touched on the challengers (and TJ) being a family and the introductions of exes, family members, rivals, etc. I wish again there was more time spent on those relationships being built and introduced as future gameplay. Maybe that's a little too "behind the curtain" for them though. Overall, I loved hearing from challengers and producers about their experiences. It definitely left me wanting more, so that's a good thing I guess? I feel like they should have added another 30 minutes or hour to these. There's so much good stuff to go through! A lot of the super early seasons, I'm watching for the first time. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7662914
forevertwentynine September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 This is the best thing I've seen in so long. It's so nostalgic and it makes me feel old since I've been watching it Live from the beginning. Ahh.. I used to look up the Toga Party on youtube back in the day. Then came TJs story.... and my eyes are still almost swollen shut. I remember it.. but seeing it all play out in the documentary and when he came out and everything he says... that man is super human and awesome as hell. These people are crazy and I love them all..... and as ALWAYS... CT rocks it. He cheats death... asshole. Love it. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7663568
mojoween September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 I’ve only watched the first one so far and I was getting big mad because one of the producers was like “this has been on for 20 seasons” and I was like wait no, it’s been on longer than that. Then I realized they must have been talking about it turning into The Challenge specifically and I was less salty. Man those early clips took me right back to the 90’s and I loved it all. I did NOT recall Cyrus getting into TJ’s face, that was amazing. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7663644
AntFTW September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, mojoween said: I did NOT recall Cyrus getting into TJ’s face, that was amazing. I remember when I watched that season, and that’s when Syrus lost to Derrick K IIRC, and I also do not recall that moment at all. Edited September 22, 2022 by AntFTW Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7663790
jsm1125 September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 I agree with wishing we had spent more time on the earlier seasons. They barely mentioned a peep of Battle of the Sexes I, my favorite season. I generally like Veronica, Tina and Rachel and agree that it was nice to see women run the show, but what the show likely will not want to acknowledge was that they treated Tonya pretty terribly. Because the show wants to forget that Tonya existed. Surprised Beth or Paula weren’t there. Or maybe they were asked but chose to decline? 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7663888
AntFTW September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 5 minutes ago, jsm1125 said: I generally like Veronica, Tina and Rachel and agree that it was nice to see women run the show, but what the show likely will not want to acknowledge was that they treated Tonya pretty terribly. Because the show wants to forget that Tonya existed. They also didn't acknowledge the bullying on The Island. 6 minutes ago, jsm1125 said: Surprised Beth or Paula weren’t there. Or maybe they were asked but chose to decline? I'm surprised we didn't see a lot more people than we got, especially people from the earlier seasons because we've been seeing them on All-Stars. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7663917
mojoween September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 It was nice to see Yes. He looks like he could still do it. Although on the flip side there were many many contestants who I would be fine never seeing again. That actually includes, without naming any names, the interviews with “famous” fans of the show. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7664123
UGAmp September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 I thought this was really great. I will always love The Challenge and all of its evolutions (even the not so great The Challenge: USA). I hope they focus on Diem is a future episode. I’m still sad about that and remember reading the news on my phone she had passed while standing in line at the store. I always wanted her and CT to end up together. And on a personal note, my 39 year old sister has been in the hospital since the end of July and is expected to stay in her rehab facility through November. She had two brain bleeds forcing her to undergo a successful brain surgery in August. To see the footage of TJ going through his therapies was tough but encouraging. You wouldn’t even know he had gone through that based on how he is today and that gives me hope my sister can be completely restored. 1 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7664827
AntFTW September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 (edited) 21 minutes ago, UGAmp said: I thought this was really great. I will always love The Challenge and all of its evolutions (even the not so great The Challenge: USA). I hope they focus on Diem is a future episode. I’m still sad about that and remember reading the news on my phone she had passed while standing in line at the store. I always wanted her and CT to end up together. As much as I love Exes 2 and think its a great season, anytime I decide to binge old Challenge seasons, I have to skip over Exes 2 because I can't bear to watch Diem get sick and be medically evacuated. Edited September 23, 2022 by AntFTW Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7664842
Bob Sambob September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 13 hours ago, mojoween said: I did NOT recall Cyrus getting into TJ’s face, that was amazing. 12 hours ago, AntFTW said: I remember when I watched that season, and that’s when Syrus lost to Derrick K IIRC, and I also do not recall that moment at all. I'm pretty sure they only showed it on "The Shit They Should Have Shown." 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7664906
Tachi Rocinante September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 I know they focused on who they could interview, but they could have at least mentioned other players who had an early impact on the game, like Landon and Evelyn. Also, several early players (Duffy, Chung, Giuntoli) have gone on to bigger things. It was hard to watch TJ's fall, and I almost forgot that Dave Mirra took his own life (CTE). 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7665095
Midwestern Lady September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 Well done- I want more. I thoroughly enjoyed this show. I admit to having a shameless crush on the Miz- still. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7665251
millennium September 24, 2022 Share September 24, 2022 While I enjoyed both episodes, I was annoyed by the celebrity "super fans." Kim Kardashian seemed to imply that The Challenge is responsible for the pox that she and her family have spread across the globe. Sorry, but she did not belong in this. At all. But I guess MTV is hoping to siphon off some of her fans to The Challenge because if Kim says it's good then they must obey and watch it themselves. The other two jackasses, the actor and the screenwriter, were useless. It said "Super Fan" under their names. The world is full of Challenge "super fans" -- the ones who not only watch religiously but follow cast socials, listen to podcasts, attend Challenge Mania events, etc. But I didn't see one real-life, ordinary person (despite that it's all us nobodies on the other side of the screen that keep the ratings going) not one, talking about why they love The Challenge or how it has affected their lives. I would have preferred that the minutes squandered on the celebrity "super fans" had been used for that, or at the very least for more unseen footage, or appearances by cast members who were conspicuously absent. I laughed when one of the producers was describing the final where Kenny had to carry Wes up the hill. He studiously avoided using Kenny's name, referring to him only as "Wes's partner." Tough break for "Mr. Beautiful," to be memorialized on The Challenge Untold History as the nameless partner of the person he hated most on the show. 😆 The time devoted to The Island made it look like the Bananas Show, but the real star of that season was Evelyn. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7666846
millennium September 25, 2022 Share September 25, 2022 Incidentally, despite the title "The Challenge: Untold History," about 95% of it seems pretty told. We were treated to relatively few instances of "unseen footage," and most of what they showed diverged only slightly if at all from the aired version. Somebody tell me I only dreamed Paulie was in it. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7667704
jsm1125 September 25, 2022 Share September 25, 2022 9 hours ago, millennium said: Incidentally, despite the title "The Challenge: Untold History," about 95% of it seems pretty told. We were treated to relatively few instances of "unseen footage," and most of what they showed diverged only slightly if at all from the aired version. Somebody tell me I only dreamed Paulie was in it. I saw him too. I’m not crazy about Cara Maria these days, but how do you have him for an interview but not her? Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7667941
Giuseppe September 25, 2022 Share September 25, 2022 On 9/22/2022 at 4:13 PM, mojoween said: It was nice to see Yes. He looks like he could still do it. He can. He was on two of the All-Star seasons that recently aired. I thought this was really well done. I'm honestly not a huge fan of the Challenge as it stands now, but I really enjoyed revisiting how it all began and the thought process behind the evolution of all the seasons. I hadn't exactly been looking forward to the new season coming up, but now I'm kinda excited about it, so...good job I guess for sparking my interest again. I thought Justin Booth - the executive producer being interviewed - spoke just like Eugene from The Walking Dead. Anyone else hear that?? 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7668366
millennium September 25, 2022 Share September 25, 2022 7 hours ago, jsm1125 said: I saw him too. I’m not crazy about Cara Maria these days, but how do you have him for an interview but not her? I asked the same question. I imagine she'll show up at some point. I wonder if this portends an eventual return for both of them. I have read reports/speculation/gossip that Cara is banned for being publicly critical of production. Also that Paulie failed the psych profile cast members undergo. But who knows what the truth is. Whenever I see Paulie, I think of two moments: when he broke down sobbing after being unable to complete a water challenge, and when he showed up in that shiny purple jacket at the reunion and Bananas told him he looked "like a host from the Hunger Games." 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7668376
Lantern7 September 26, 2022 Share September 26, 2022 (edited) Saw the first episode in spurts. After how Challenge USA ended, I think a break would have been good for everyone. In my head: "Kim Kardashian?!? I don't want K.K. I want Kiki!!!" And yeah, I knew about most of the stuff from that first episode. I noticed they skipped over Extreme Challenge, and that's probably for the best. I see that the third episode will focus on underdogs, and I really hope Sarah Greyson gets some love there. It's a bit wrong to show the birth of eliminations without seeing the one lab rat that took the cheese five times. Tina talking about how she created "Mean Girls" along with Rachel and Veronica. Uuuugggghhhhhhhh. Hate her. Hate them. And nice of Untold not to tell us about how most of their abuse was directed towards Tonya. Nah, lets show them snap at Dan and Jodi without context. On 9/22/2022 at 11:40 AM, mojoween said: I did NOT recall [Syrus] getting into TJ’s face, that was amazing. That was shown at the Gauntlet 2 reunion. Syrus was facing Derrick in Beach Brawl, and Syrus kept beefing about the calls going against him. At some point, Teege called him "Motherfucker," and Syrus took exception. Timmy had to restrain him, and that guy saved a life that day. You can read about that episode in my recap. I heard Kenny was only referenced as "Wes' partner." That's funny. Not funny . . . apparently, no love for Cara Maria. Worse, I hear that Paulie does talking head interviews. Who asks for that? ETA: The production crew had barbecues twice a week on The Island, while the cast had to fend for themselves? I didn't like most of that cast . . . but I can't decide if that was negligent or just plain evil. Edited September 26, 2022 by Lantern7 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7669595
Lantern7 September 27, 2022 Share September 27, 2022 (edited) Saw the second episode. Lots of good moments with the ugly parts sanded down. Isn't it a poorly-kept secret that Johnny & Tyler cut Adam in on their prize money, getting him to throw that final elimination? That puts a huge dent in the "CT Redemption" story. Amusing moment . . . a montage of temper tantrums and fits . . . and it ended on Devyn mourning her weave in Battle of the Seasons (2012). Please tell me the rest of you caught that bit. Funny that Kenny didn't get his name mentioned (for good reason), but Natalie/Ninja more or less ended the episode with her WOTW burnout. They also threw in Cara Maria freaking out over the IV. Wes called the finales for Rivals and WOTW the most grueling he's ever been through. Like I said, WOTW was a season so epic, only a mythical creature could have won. I'm hoping Turbo gets some recognition, especially since he's coming back. Teaser for the next episode had Sarah Greyson. Why do I have a feeling that any segment on her legendary single season will be undermined by Rachel and Veronica bringing up her canoodling with Theo? Like either of them can take the high ground. Edited September 27, 2022 by Lantern7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7671345
snarts September 27, 2022 Share September 27, 2022 I loved the idea of this show, but it lost me quickly by featuring people I despise like Veronica, Rachel & Tina (seriously, all three parroting the same dreck?). It also served as a reminder of how much I enjoyed the earlier seasons with the cheesy challenges and the leaderboard. What they call evolution, I see as a downfall. It's just not as fun as it used to be. 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7671618
AntFTW September 27, 2022 Share September 27, 2022 (edited) On 9/24/2022 at 9:55 PM, millennium said: Somebody tell me I only dreamed Paulie was in it. I saw him. I had to double back to make sure but I believe I saw him in the trailer for tomorrow's episodes. Edited September 27, 2022 by AntFTW Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7672437
Lantern7 September 27, 2022 Share September 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, AntFTW said: I saw him. I had to double back to make sure but believe I saw him in the trailer for tomorrow's episodes. Also Landon. And I think we got the first public admission that Rainn Wilson played Roadmaster in 2000. Man, was he annoying. #NightyNight Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7672458
lasu September 29, 2022 Share September 29, 2022 I rarely thing MTV/BM got much right, but I really do when it comes to TJ. It was apparent during his first season back he just wasn't himself, and seeing the unaired footage from his recovery showed just how not himself he really was. It was clear to me he was off back then, but I never suspected anything like what I saw in those videos. But during that season, and for few after, if you noticed, a LOT of TJ's scenes were shot from behind with voiceovers. I think the producers really worked with TJ to have him continue hosting. When the one producer came up asked him if he was tired, and TJ said, "yeah - my voice starts slurring, doesn't it?" my heart just broke for him, more than any other footage of his recovery (the other parts were more shocking - I had no idea, but TJ's face when he said that, he just looked abashed and that gutted me). I think in a sea of treating people like garbage on this franchise, they did right by TJ. I'm really glad that he made such a full recovery. It was also heartbreaking to hear the self-doubt Dave Mirra had on the show as well. Sometimes you just want to reach through time and the tv screen to give someone a hug. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7675417
Tachi Rocinante October 3, 2022 Share October 3, 2022 On 9/25/2022 at 10:31 PM, Lantern7 said: ETA: The production crew had barbecues twice a week on The Island, while the cast had to fend for themselves? I didn't like most of that cast . . . but I can't decide if that was negligent or just plain evil. For all of the shit most of them have received for free over the years, I call it karma. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/133672-s01e01-dawn-of-an-empire-s01e02-evolution-of-the-empire/#findComment-7682118
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