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Woodstone Manor: The I-saac Sees All (Spoilers&Speculation)

Neptune

By Neptune
in Ghosts (US)

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Neptune

Neptune

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“Isaac and Nigel’s wedding will be building throughout the season,” Wiseman said. “At the end of last season, Jay started plans for a restaurant which will also be an ongoing storyline, including possibly having one of the ghosts as an investor.”

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/ghosts-producers-shortened-third-season-sas-power-uk-guest-stars/

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PaulE
PaulE

I think I speak for many of us when I say that, if this is true, I really really hope Pete's the ghost Jay gets to see, even if it's just for a few minutes.

Bastet
Bastet

Yep, you do not fuck with a key dynamic of a successful show (which is why you shoot around an actor's pregnancy, for example).  Jay's reactions to the one side of the conversations between Sam and th

Annber03
Annber03

You're welcome :). Agreed on the acting, too - the way Brandon Scott Jones delivers Isaac's, "But...she knew. She had to have known..." line in particular always gets me. He really captures both Isaac

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Neptune

Neptune

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"We have some fun stuff coming for Halloween, where we learn about how another one of the ghosts dies," Zaragoza teased. "Even though it's a shorter season, we're packing in a lot of really fun and crazy storylines."
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/ghosts-star-on-hard-season-3-cast-change-and-the-best-montreal-crew-200841894.html

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PaulE

PaulE

14 hours ago, Neptune said:

“Isaac and Nigel’s wedding will be building throughout the season,” Wiseman said. “At the end of last season, Jay started plans for a restaurant which will also be an ongoing storyline, including possibly having one of the ghosts as an investor.”

I really hope one of them (probably Isaac) becomes a bridezilla.  Also, I'm thinking Hetty as matron of honor, but who for the best man?  Alberta can provide the music, with fife accompaniment by Baxter, provided he can play something other than the Grenadiers March.  Which also brings to mind that Sam will have to marry them because who else is there?  The fact that she isn't licensed to conduct weddings won't matter because the two people in question are, um, dead, so legally the marriage won't exist.  That actually makes it rather sweet to think that Isaac and Nigel love each other enough to enter a spiritual union.

If I were one of the ghosts, I'd be excited at the prospect of the restaurant.  Think of all the fun they can have observing and eavesdropping on the customers.  Hours of entertainment.  It should alleviate some of the tedium, particularly for Sass, who seems to be the most bored with his existence.

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Snow Apple

Snow Apple

14 hours ago, PaulE said:

if I were one of the ghosts, I'd be excited at the prospect of the restaurant.  Think of all the fun they can have observing and eavesdropping on the customers.  Hours of entertainment.  It should alleviate some of the tedium, particularly for Sass, who seems to be the most bored with his existence.

Not to mention all those yummy smells.

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Neptune

Neptune

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(edited)

The Polterguest first look (April 11)

https://collider.com/ghosts-season-3-image-lamorne-morris/

Morris' character is a baseball player from the Negro League, before baseball was integrated by Jackie Robinson in 1947. The actor was given most of Saul's backstory, like where he played and how he died, but Morris has his own special details.

"I figured I’d also add in that Saul used to sleep in his car and used that to help prepare for what Utkarsh and Rose made me do," he notes.

Morris enjoyed his time on Ghosts so much that he'd "absolutely love to come back," adding, "It’s so damn funny and the entire cast are home run hitters in comedy."

https://ew.com/first-look-lamorne-morris-ghosts-8620245

Edited by Neptune
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Annber03

Annber03

It was said early on in the show that Isaac died a couple weeks after the surrender of Fort Ticonderoga, which puts his death sometime in mid July of 1777. And the flashbacks in "D&D" made mention of Isaac's refusal to wash his hands, indicating that they took place not long before he got sick and died. So based off that, I'm guessing Nigel's death happened, at most, maybe a couple weeks to a month or so before Isaac's? 

But YES, I want to get more of Nigel's backstory, too. I want to know what his life was like before he came to America, what kinds of struggles he faced upon coming here, if he noticed Isaac before his death, the way Isaac had noticed him, and I absolutely want to know what those very early years of ghost life were like for Isaac and NIgel, too. I also want to know how he reacted upon finding out Nigel was also a ghost, and how they went from rivals to developing a tentative friendship while also trying to deal with their respective feelings for each other. Did NIgel get a chance to interact with Thor and Sasappis, too, even if only briefly? 

And yeah, we now know that Thor had a couple other romantic partners who moved on, so that indicates there had been other ghosts lurking around hte property throughout the centuries who didn't stay long. I'd definitely like to know if that was the case for Isaac and Nigel, too. Did they encounter any of their fellow soldiers, for instance? 

Yeah. So much the show could explore with those early years of ghost life, both for Isaac and Nigel and for the other ghosts in general. That'd be a fascinating concept for an episode, exploring how they each dealt with those first few days of being ghosts, and how they learned to adjust, or struggled to adjust. 

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PaulE

PaulE

I'm all for some backstory on Nigel and I think it's appropriate now that he's become the most important of the occasional ghosts--also, I'd be interested to see if my assumptions about him have been correct!  I'd imagine that when he first became a ghost he'd have been horrified by the fact that he was stranded, maybe for eternity, in enemy territory, and he'd probably have been traumatized when his regiment moved on and he had to watch his friends and colleagues leave.  We don't know if Jenkins and Baxter died before or after him, though it was probably around the same time, as with Isaac, but if he died first then there'd have been at least a short period when he must have felt very alone, even with Thor and Sass around.

When we first met the Brits, Alberta said they kept mostly to themselves, so probably Nigel didn't interact with the others--even Isaac--all that much, especially since he was determined, in his own mind, to continue the war.  I've always felt there's a great deal of pathos about the plight of those three guys, stuck in that miserable shed, immersed in a hostile environment that they themselves created or at least perpetuated for so long.

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Annber03

Annber03

1 hour ago, PaulE said:

I'm all for some backstory on Nigel and I think it's appropriate now that he's become the most important of the occasional ghosts--also, I'd be interested to see if my assumptions about him have been correct!  I'd imagine that when he first became a ghost he'd have been horrified by the fact that he was stranded, maybe for eternity, in enemy territory, and he'd probably have been traumatized when his regiment moved on and he had to watch his friends and colleagues leave.  We don't know if Jenkins and Baxter died before or after him, though it was probably around the same time, as with Isaac, but if he died first then there'd have been at least a short period when he must have felt very alone, even with Thor and Sass around.

When we first met the Brits, Alberta said they kept mostly to themselves, so probably Nigel didn't interact with the others--even Isaac--all that much, especially since he was determined, in his own mind, to continue the war.  I've always felt there's a great deal of pathos about the plight of those three guys, stuck in that miserable shed, immersed in a hostile environment that they themselves created or at least perpetuated for so long.

YES. Yes to all of this. I fully agree that dying and becoming a ghost would be further complicated by the fact he was so far from home - at least many of the other ghosts either had people they knew around them when they died, or have living relatives/descendants who they get to see if they come to visit Woodstone. Nigel has...none of that (unless, perhaps, he's got some descendants of his own out there, too - but unless they moved to the U.S.at some point or come to stay at Woodstone while visiting the States or something, they're still going to be much farther away). 

I like your second paragraph, too and I feel like that explains a lot of NIgel's intiail tensions, not just with Isaac, but also with the other ghosts at the mansion, when he first started interacting with them and started spending more time there. I don't think he had much opportunity to properly get to know them before he and Isaac started getting closer, so it's no wonder that his early interactions with them came off kind of awkward and fraught at first much of the time. 

(Incidentally, though, I feel like this is another point of common ground Nigel and Thor could find with each other, alongside their shared love of ants. They were both left to their own devices and died in a strange new land, far away from their respective homes, they both traveled by boat to get here and probably had some bumpy travels along the way, they both felt rather isolated until they found their own little group of people to hang out with - in Nigel's case, it was Jenkins and Baxter, in Thor's, it was the other ghosts, though I think he's especially close to Sasappis, Isaac, and Hetty, because of how long they've all known each other. I think that could be a really interesting thing for the show to explore, and for them to connect over.)

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Phebemarie

Phebemarie

I've been noticing more negative comments about this season at another site.  Their complaints are similar to the article linked above.  I don't find this season particularly tawdry.  

I think the writers have had a very limited amount of time (and episodes) to create meaningful arcs this season.  With the additional complications of two pregnancies to work around, I am not surprised the writing has changed a bit.

 

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Neptune

Neptune

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42 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

I've been noticing more negative comments about this season at another site.  Their complaints are similar to the article linked above.  I don't find this season particularly tawdry.  

I think the writers have had a very limited amount of time (and episodes) to create meaningful arcs this season.  With the additional complications of two pregnancies to work around, I am not surprised the writing has changed a bit.

 


it could be intentional by the writers. The ghosts have gotten used to taking advantage of Sam and jay. Now they have to deal with trying to get Flower out of the well while Mark and his crew are oblivious to their existence. 

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kathyk2

kathyk2

44 minutes ago, Phebemarie said:

I've been noticing more negative comments about this season at another site.  Their complaints are similar to the article linked above.  I don't find this season particularly tawdry.  

I think the writers have had a very limited amount of time (and episodes) to create meaningful arcs this season.  With the additional complications of two pregnancies to work around, I am not surprised the writing has changed a bit.

 

I think the showrunners are trying to cram twenty two weeks of plot into ten episodes and it doesn't work. Carol isn't a substitute for Flower. I'm sure everything will be back to normal next season.

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Phebemarie

Phebemarie

Someone suggested that Beatrice could appear at the end.  At first I thought that would be impossible, but then it was pointed out she did come to care for Isaac when he was on his death bed.  I suppose she could have been accidently killed during the battle (but where has she been for almost 250 years?)

 

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Annber03

Annber03

Yeah, Beatrice showing up had long been my main guess, simply because what better time for her to appear than right as Isaac's about to get married again. 

But given some of the speculation and articles I've been reading about this finale thus far, I honestly wonder now if it will be her, or someone else entirely. I do think the surprise guest will likely be someone connected to Isaac and his past somehow, so if it's not Beatrice, then it will be interesting to see who else it could be. 

PaulE

PaulE

13 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

Someone suggested that Beatrice could appear at the end.  At first I thought that would be impossible, but then it was pointed out she did come to care for Isaac when he was on his death bed.  I suppose she could have been accidently killed during the battle (but where has she been for almost 250 years?)

Presumably heaven. Remember that Hetty’s Irish maid came back for awhile, so I’ve assumed since then that ghosts—or at least, some ghosts—can make return visits, maybe only under certain circumstances. But presumably she died on the premises, so unless Beatrice did, too, she might not be able to return to the mansion. I’m thinking now that it probably won’t be her, but I still think it would be nice if it were, because by giving her blessing to Isaac she’d be able to release him from whatever remaining guilt he still harbors, and maybe even help resolve his uncertainties about his relationship with Nigel.

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kav

kav

18 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

There’s a picture online of the Australian stripper DJing at the wedding.

The fact that it’s been leaked makes me doubt he’s the surprise guest.

Spoiler

From 1 of the previews, it is shown that is from a dream.

 

1 hour ago, PaulE said:

Presumably heaven. Remember that Hetty’s Irish maid came back for awhile, so I’ve assumed since then that ghosts—or at least, some ghosts—can make return visits, maybe only under certain circumstances. But presumably she died on the premises, so unless Beatrice did, too, she might not be able to return to the mansion. I’m thinking now that it probably won’t be her, but I still think it would be nice if it were, because by giving her blessing to Isaac she’d be able to release him from whatever remaining guilt he still harbors, and maybe even help resolve his uncertainties about his relationship with Nigel.

Ok, now I just was wondering if it could be the Puritan ghost that he "lost" and "let go of"  so many years ago.

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Annber03

Annber03

6 hours ago, Phebemarie said:

The picture of Hetty and Isaac makes me a little concerned that if the wedding goes through, Nigel will achieve his complete happiness and go to the heaven once they say "I do"....which would be a really mean way to end the season.

I don't think that'll happen - I don't think they're gonna play the, "Oh, someone got sucked off!" card again, especially after the events of this past season and last season's finale. Plus, they've already had it where Isaac's had to worry about that possibility with Nigel before - he was led to beleive that's what had happened to Nigel in the first season, thanks to Jenkins' meddling, and then of course there was last season's finale, and his freakout in the season premiere when he was trying to look for Nigel. I mean, I suppose they could make that a running thing that these two have to deal with each season finale, but given they literally just had the group all go through a thing of thinking someone they cared about had been sucked off, I don't see them doing that again here.  Plus, this is a comedy, not a drama, it wouldn't really be funny to see Isaac genuinely heartbroken for real like that. 

All of the above being said, however, I could see something happening where Nigel goes missing or disappears somewhere for some reason or another. Maybe Isaac and Hetty's shock is due to whatever led that to happen, and now they, and the rest of the group, have to figure out how to find him/get him back/whatever it is that might've happened. And maybe the surprise guest, whomever it is, has something to do with that, too. 

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Annber03

Annber03

From TVLine's recent "Inside LIne Scoop" column:

Quote

Will we see the opening of Jay’s restaurant next season on Ghosts? — Karen
As co-showrunner Joe Wiseman notes, Jay and wife Sam “both have a lot going on still. Jay’s trying to get the restaurant up and running, and Sam has the book she’s writing with Isaac, so that’s something we’re going to continue to track in Season 4.” But perhaps taking precedence, storytelling-wise, “We want to meet their families and really get to know them a little bit more,” says co-showrunner Joe Port.

https://tvline.com/lists/ncis-tony-and-ziva-casting-spoilers-tali-nanny-bodyguard-hacker/ghosts-season-4-spoilers/

I'd be all for meeting Jay's parents at some point :D. 

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Bastet

Bastet

49 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I'd be all for meeting Jay's parents at some point :D. 

I've been wanting that for a long time.  They established him as incredibly close to his mom, but we never see her.  I could fanwank that his parents live elsewhere, maybe out of the country, but when Sam's ghost mom invited her to come to the terrible restaurant where she died for Thanksgiving, Jay said no problem, just be aware that will probably mean his mom will want them for Christmas, so it sounded like they were someplace close enough it's routine to spend holidays together.  But then they only ever introduced us to his sister, and didn't have them even mention their parents in any of their conversations.

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kathyk2

kathyk2

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

I've been wanting that for a long time.  They established him as incredibly close to his mom, but we never see her.  I could fanwank that his parents live elsewhere, maybe out of the country, but when Sam's ghost mom invited her to come to the terrible restaurant where she died for Thanksgiving, Jay said no problem, just be aware that will probably mean his mom will want them for Christmas, so it sounded like they were someplace close enough it's routine to spend holidays together.  But then they only ever introduced us to his sister, and didn't have them even mention their parents in any of their conversations.

I've been waiting since season one to meet Jay's parents. I hope we learn if Sam's father is dead or alive. The show has never explained if Sam is related to Hetty through her mom or dad. If her dad is alive why hasn't he visited her ?

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