Season 1 Discussion

[AnimeMania]

"Tell Me Lies" the 10 episode drama TV Series which will stream the first 3 episodes on Hulu on Wednesday, September 7, then weekly after that. The TV Series is an adaptation of the book "Tell Me Lies" published in 2018, by Carola Lovering.

Tell Me Lies is the story of a young woman’s obsession with a tumultuous but intoxicating relationship as it unfolds over the course of 8 years. When Lucy Albright, a Long Island native, arrives on the campus of her small Southern California college, she meets Stephen DeMarco, a man who’s good at being charming. Away from her mother whom she’s never forgiven for an act of betrayal in her early teen years, Lucy embraces college life and all it has to offer. Although their relationship begins like any typical campus romance, they quickly fall into an addictive entanglement that will permanently alter not only their lives, but the lives of everyone around them.

Grace Van Patten as Lucy Albright, on the surface, she is a sheltered but well-adjusted girl from an affluent Long Island town. Her acerbic humor and often cool demeanor has earned her the label of “Ice Queen” among her friends. But beneath her confident facade Lucy is hiding a childhood trauma that has left her feeling disconnected from her peers. When she meets Stephen, Lucy sees a dark streak in him that she recognizes in herself, and will inadvertently bring her demons to light.

Jackson White as Stephen DeMarco. With an enigmatic quality and a fierce intelligence, Stephen’s ability to read people has always been a means of survival. But underneath his charm, he has a dark side. When he meets Lucy, he will bring out a side of her that is simultaneously enthralling and frightening. Together they will embark on a tumultuous journey, with repercussions that neither could have predicted.

Catherine Missal as Bree. Grounded and caring with a strong sense of who she is, Bree is one of Lucy’s best friends and has been since their first day of college. Although she initially presents as naive, she is actually anything but.

Spencer House as Wrigley, the most celebrated athlete on campus and always the life of the party. Although it seems like life is easy for him, his big personality hides a wealth of insecurities.

Sonia Mena as Pippa, the ringleader of the group who uses her bravado to mask a deep insecurity. Although she’d never admit it, she cares way too much what others think. She and Lucy become close friends at college, but they find themselves constantly at odds with each other.

Branden Cook as Evan, a kind, intelligent guy who often feels stunted by his father’s success, causing him to sometimes lack motivation. He is overly concerned with being the “nice guy” and puts his friends’ needs before his own – this leads to a repressed anger that might eventually get the better of him.

Benjamin Wadsworth as Drew, a college freshman and Wrigley’s younger brother. He is shy but smart, and is used to living in the shadow of Wrigley.

Alicia Crowder as Diana, who has an Audrey Hepburn air about her, elegant, confident, and poised. But underneath it all she has a formidable strength, and is nobody’s fool. Once Lucy finds out that Diana and Stephen (Jackson White) have been in a tumultuous relationship for years, she is threatened—and rightly so. Diana knows Stephen in a way Lucy does not and knows how to navigate his games.

[AnimeMania]

Tell Me Lies      September 7, 2022       Hulu

Episodes 1-3    Titles and Descriptions

Spoiler

S01.E01: Lightning Strikes

Lucy starts her freshman year at Baird College, where an unexpected turn of events during Welcome Week flips her life upside down. 

S01.E02: Hot-Blooded

Lucy struggles with the aftermath of Welcome Week and goes on her first date with Stephen.

S01.E03: We Don't Touch, We Collide

Pressure on Wrigley intensifies, bleeding into his relationship with Pippa. Lucy and Stephen discuss exclusivity.

[mandymax]

Already hooked!  This kind of has a "Dare Me" vibe to it, if anyone else has seen that show.  How often are they releasing new episodes?

[AnimeMania]

7 hours ago, mandymax said:

Already hooked!  This kind of has a "Dare Me" vibe to it, if anyone else has seen that show.  How often are they releasing new episodes?

10 episodes total, 1 episode weekly on Wednesday

[Guest]

At some point in the third episode I found myself wishing that this was a flashback mystery about who killed Stephen. 

I feel like it has a lot of potential but the pacing is awful. They really couldn’t have dropped one or two sex scenes and actually advanced some of the dangling threads in the first three hours.

I have a bad feeling that the eight year span mentioned in the show description is going to progress very slowly and I was over year 1 after episode 1. 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

11 hours ago, Dani said:

At some point in the third episode I found myself wishing that this was a flashback mystery about who killed Stephen. 

First episode for me.

Stephen: I will always use condoms with other girls.

Me: How romantic.

If you are in the mood for a very soapy melodrama, I think this fits the bill. The only person/couple I find myself bored with is Wrigley and Wrigley/Pippa. So Wrigley is learning disabled, BFD? I can see it being an issue if you grew up in the 80's but I didn't think that kind of thing was a stigma with kids today.

[peachmangosteen]

I am pretty much always in the mood for soapy melodrama so I am enjoying this.

The actress playing Lucy looks so familiar to me but I looked her up and I’ve never seen anything she was in. Maybe she is just reminding me of someone else. Shailene Woodley maybe? A few of the other actors look familiar too I need to look them up.

The timeline was confusing me. Like Stephen came to pick Lucy up for their first date at the end of the first episode but then the second episode started before that. 

Was the girl in the picture on Stephen’s computer Macy? I wonder if that tied into whatever Macy’s secret was that she started to tell Lucy.

Was the tattoo guy Lucy hooked up with the guy she was with in 2015?

[gesundheit]

So 

19 hours ago, Dani said:

I feel like it has a lot of potential but the pacing is awful. They really couldn’t have dropped one or two sex scenes and actually advanced some of the dangling threads in the first three hours.

I have a bad feeling that the eight year span mentioned in the show description is going to progress very slowly and I was over year 1 after episode 1. 

Truly. At first I thought, "Okay, I get it, I remember being young and intoxicated by sex that hot, I can see why they'd need to show it" but by the fifth explicit scene I just wanted to shower. (Also Lucy and Stephen's first hookup was pre-brushing their teeth in the morning! You can't do the lingering tease with your mouths open when you both have morning breath, certainly not the first time you kiss them!)

35 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I am pretty much always in the mood for soapy melodrama so I am enjoying this.

The actress playing Lucy looks so familiar to me but I looked her up and I’ve never seen anything she was in. Maybe she is just reminding me of someone else. Shailene Woodley maybe? A few of the other actors look familiar too I need to look them up.

The timeline was confusing me. Like Stephen came to pick Lucy up for their first date at the end of the first episode but then the second episode started before that. 

Was the girl in the picture on Stephen’s computer Macy? I wonder if that tied into whatever Macy’s secret was that she started to tell Lucy.

Was the tattoo guy Lucy hooked up with the guy she was with in 2015?

The Lucy actress was in Nine Perfect Strangers so that's what I remember her from most recently, but she definitely looks a lot like Woodley as well. Just blonder. Otherwise none of them ring a bell for me, which is odd (I watch a lot of stuff!). Previews tell me Stephen's mother is a very familiar face, though. Oh and I guess Lucy's mother was as well? That was someone known.

Yes, those were his sexy pictures of Macy.

I believe that was the same guy, yes. I presume he's going to be in the "healthy choice but she's less drawn to him" archetype slot.

I'm relieved that there are high-stakes twists and crimes and lies, because if it's just about an unhealthy back-and-forth relationship of comely young people, that was not going to sustain a whole series.

I'm not sure why we keep being told Lucy is cold and has no feelings and can't connect with people -- she seems like she has plenty of feelings and is easy to get along with. It's odd that she allegedly can't connect with people and Pippa allegedly has trouble making female friends but both of them are squealing and gossiping together and giving advice to each other like they've been doing it for years.

[Guest]

I almost wish they hadn’t started with the future scenes if the bulk of the show is going to be in the past. Like the beginning and end of the first episode hinted at a different show than what we are getting. I do like it but think I would have liked that other show even more. 

52 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

The timeline was confusing me. Like Stephen came to pick Lucy up for their first date at the end of the first episode but then the second episode started before that. 

That was weird. I wonder if they had to restructure the first episodes from the plan when the pilot was filmed. 

9 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

I'm not sure why we keep being told Lucy is cold and has no feelings and can't connect with people -- she seems like she has plenty of feelings and is easy to get along with. It's odd that she allegedly can't connect with people and Pippa allegedly has trouble making female friends but both of them are squealing and gossiping together and giving advice to each other like they've been doing it for years.

Yeah. That was a little too much of a “she’s not like other girls” moment for me. 

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Otherwise none of them ring a bell for me, which is odd (I watch a lot of stuff!). Previews tell me Stephen's mother is a very familiar face, though. Oh and I guess Lucy's mother was as well? That was someone known.

Lucy's mom is Jessica Capshaw from Grey's Anatomy. Bree is Kelley Missal's sister and she looks just like her so that's why she looked familiar to me. Wrigley was in The Society and Teenage Bounty Hunters, two great shows that Netflix cancelled. Apparently, Stephen was in 4 eps of The Middle but I didn't think he looked familiar even though I watched that lol.

I forgot to watch the season preview at the end of ep 3. I need to go back and watch that.

[gesundheit]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Lucy's mom is Jessica Capshaw from Grey's Anatomy. Bree is Kelley Missal's sister and she looks just like her so that's why she looked familiar to me. Wrigley was in The Society and Teenage Bounty Hunters, two great shows that Netflix cancelled. Apparently, Stephen was in 4 eps of The Middle but I didn't think he looked familiar even though I watched that lol.

I forgot to watch the season preview at the end of ep 3. I need to go back and watch that.

I've never seen any of those shows, so I guess that's why they weren't familiar to me! I did wonder about Bree Missal, though, if she was any relation. Thanks for the info!

[peachmangosteen]

I watched the season promo; Stephen’s mom is played by Katey Sagal.

[SunnyBeBe]

I just started on this.  I’m not sure if I like it yet…..it’s being compared to Netflix’s series You, but I don’t see it.  
 

Why did Lucy break up with her high school boyfriend?  It was implied there was something sinister about it.  And, why did her mom think it was a bad idea?  It seems like breaking up with someone from high school when you leave for college wouldn’t be so unexpected.   
 

Edited September 12, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[gesundheit]

On 9/9/2022 at 12:14 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I watched the season promo; Stephen’s mom is played by Katey Sagal.

Oh sorry, I know Katey Sagal well, I was just saying she was very familiar because I thought someone in the preview might be a spoiler on here! I always forget the rules.

Anyway, I'm excited to see her do something current besides the nothing she's given on The Conners. She's always phenomenal in dramas.

On 9/12/2022 at 1:05 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

Why did Lucy break up with her high school boyfriend?  It was implied there was something sinister about it.  And, why did her mom think it was a bad idea?  

I think it was just more of them trying to demonstrate that she usually doesn't really have feelings, since she was with the guy for years and broke up with him for practical reasons and felt nothing about it.

[SunnyBeBe]

Is it just me or is there a lot of sex scenes in this?  I watched the first two seasons of Euphoria and it’s much more than that one.  I’m not complaining, but I wondering how the cast feels about it.  

[absnow54]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Is it just me or is there a lot of sex scenes in this?  I watched the first two seasons of Euphoria and it’s much more than that one.  I’m not complaining, but I wondering how the cast feels about it.  

Yes. And they aren’t sex scenes that naturally occur with the story. They’re skinemax-like interludes where they crank up the porno track and turn the moan mics up to 11. The plot feels so thin, I’m starting to wonder if this show is actually soft core porn. 

I watched the first two episodes, because I was in college at the same time, and was hoping to feel nostalgic, but it doesn’t feel like the late 2000s at all, aside from the BlackBerry. I guess they figured ripping off The Social Network’s aesthetic was all that was needed to make it a “period piece.”

I also find it frustrating that they named the show “Tell Me Lies” and we haven’t even gotten a contemporary cover of the Fleetwood Mac song. Every time I see the show’s title, I instantly get the song in my head. 

[AnimeMania]

S01.E04: Take Off Your Pants and Jacket

Bree attempts to lose her virginity. Stephen goes to New York City for the weekend, while Lucy tries to figure out where their relationship stands.

Original Air Date: September 14, 2022

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, absnow54 said:

I also find it frustrating that they named the show “Tell Me Lies” and we haven’t even gotten a contemporary cover of the Fleetwood Mac song. Every time I see the show’s title, I instantly get the song in my head. 

Right! 

[SunnyBeBe]

I was thinking soft core, too.  They lean on that instead of a story it seems.  

[gesundheit]

Disappointing installment this week with no movement on the mysterious parts of it. Also, could this show please add a "Skip Sex" button like most shows have a "Skip Intro" button? Granted, I guess I brought it on myself for choosing to watch this late morning, but it was definitely too early in the day to watch pretend teenagers doing it doggie-style repeatedly. Yikes. (Only thing I was thinking about during those scenes was how they shot it and how uncomfortable that must've been.)

Also, what the hell "internship" was Stephen interviewing for that has undergrads giving legal advice??

Admittedly the scene where he manipulated the crap out of her to the point that she was apologizing to him and actually never got an answer to her question about why he never brought her out in front of people they know? That felt very real and unfortunate. Just accuse her of classism and she'll forget she even asked a valid question!

[peachmangosteen]

I wish I didn't know Stephen makes it to 2015 because I would like him killed tbh. Maybe someone can kill him at Bree/whatshisname's wedding!

This episode was so bad. I do like Bree though so at least there was that.

[mandymax]

At least the interviewer seemed to put Stephen in his place without even saying a word.

I was excited for this show, and I'll still see it through, but now I'm starting to wonder whether I should just read the book.  Nothing is happening except all kinds of unmentionables.

[absnow54]

15 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This episode was so bad. I do like Bree though so at least there was that.

Bree is definitely the only character I care about at this point. Her flirtation with Evan is cute, and I can't remember if they've established who her fiancé is in 2015, but based on the promotional image in the first post, I'm assuming it's him, so something to look forward to!

Both Stephen and Lucy suck, and I couldn't care less about them. Diana is way too good to be stuck in a love triangle with such mediocre people. I'm worried about her, since we didn't see her in 2015, I don't think. 

[gesundheit]

59 minutes ago, mandymax said:

At least the interviewer seemed to put Stephen in his place without even saying a word.

Unfortunately I felt like we were supposed to see that as a "poor Stephen" moment, or at least some sort of explanation for his whole pathology. (Also have we established where he does get his money? I know I wasn't taking anyone out to elegant dinners in college and I had a job.)

[peachmangosteen]

33 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Bree is definitely the only character I care about at this point. Her flirtation with Evan is cute, and I can't remember if they've established who her fiancé is in 2015, but based on the promotional image in the first post, I'm assuming it's him, so something to look forward to!

Both Stephen and Lucy suck, and I couldn't care less about them. Diana is way too good to be stuck in a love triangle with such mediocre people. I'm worried about her, since we didn't see her in 2015, I don't think. 

Yea, the wedding in 2015 is Bree and Evan. They were shown together in those scenes. I also agree about Diana. She and Bree are the only characters I really care about. 

3 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

(Also have we established where he does get his money? I know I wasn't taking anyone out to elegant dinners in college and I had a job.)

Maybe he sells photos of scantily clad women and that's why he had those pictures of Macy.

[absnow54]

55 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

(Also have we established where he does get his money? I know I wasn't taking anyone out to elegant dinners in college and I had a job.)

Probably building up student loan debt. 

[MaggieG]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:13 AM, gesundheit said:

Disappointing installment this week with no movement on the mysterious parts of it. Also, could this show please add a "Skip Sex" button like most shows have a "Skip Intro" button? Granted, I guess I brought it on myself for choosing to watch this late morning, but it was definitely too early in the day to watch pretend teenagers doing it doggie-style repeatedly. Yikes. (Only thing I was thinking about during those scenes was how they shot it and how uncomfortable that must've been.)

Also, what the hell "internship" was Stephen interviewing for that has undergrads giving legal advice??

Admittedly the scene where he manipulated the crap out of her to the point that she was apologizing to him and actually never got an answer to her question about why he never brought her out in front of people they know? That felt very real and unfortunate. Just accuse her of classism and she'll forget she even asked a valid question!

Yeah, I don't mind a sex scene here and there but it's definitely going into the soft core porn territory.

That was some masterful manipulation. Brought back some unfortunate memories from my ex.

[mansonlamps]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:38 AM, MaggieG said:

Yeah, I don't mind a sex scene here and there but it's definitely going into the soft core porn territory.

That was some masterful manipulation. Brought back some unfortunate memories from my ex.

I fast forward through the sex scenes, makes for a much less annoying and much faster viewing experience. 

[Nellise]

I'm impressed how boring this show is. Like could we speed things up a bit? We're 8 years in the past and each episode is covering like 2 weeks and we know Lucy and Stephen were together for 4 years.

On 9/14/2022 at 10:13 AM, gesundheit said:

Also, what the hell "internship" was Stephen interviewing for that has undergrads giving legal advice??

You can have a degree in anything and get into law school so why would the interviewer be asking legal questions like that? That was written by someone who has no idea how law school and internships work. The one thing I did like was that Stephen said the internship was paid, which many are. Of course they'll probably make that one of his "lies".

Edited September 19, 2022 by Nellise

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, it’s  taking me back to undergrad.  Posing nude for art class!  I can’t believe I did it.  

I agree about the internship.  They needed some tech support on that.  Most of the time law firms hire interns who are already in law school during summer break.  ( I did intern during undergrad, but it was a class study project and I didn’t give legal advice. Lol) You are too busy during the law school year to work as an intern. Many law schools don’t even allow students to work during the school year.
 

 They would be more interested in LSAT scores, not SAT.  And, they wouldn’t expect an undergrad to answer a question about law and advising a client. Too early.  You get into that in your first year of law school. Plus, the interviewer’s question was bogus.  She said the Client was a Health Insurance Company and the Plaintiff was accusing the Doctor of botching her plastic surgery, only the Plaintiff was addicted to plastic surgery.  A Health Insurance company would not be a party here.  The Doctor, who is accused of malpractice would be represented by a Professional Liability Insurance Company.  I don’t think the script writers realize this.  The Professional liability company hires the doctor’s attorney.  Any advice to the doctor would require a lot more info, but the fact the Plaintiff was addicted to surgery isn’t that important.  It’s the doctor’s responsibility to do no harm?  He should have refused to treat, if it couldn’t be done safely.  The standard of care by Doctor remains.  My point is that even a law student would likely struggle with the question and need much more info.  Bottom line is the question was not realistic.  Ok.  Rant over.  An actual attorney could have provided them a better question.  It’s difficult to believe they couldn’t find one. Lol. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[gesundheit]

He could, as an undergrad, be paralegal intern at a major firm he hopes can help him get into law school. But certainly not in a position giving legal advice. Bizarre. Sure, maybe a cutesy hypothetical legal question in the interview, but she came right out and said "the job is legal advice."

So I didn't realize that the whole gimmick casting of Katey Sagal as Stephen's mother is because, well, Katey Sagal is the actor's mother! Had no idea Jackson White was her kid.

[mansonlamps]

44 minutes ago, gesundheit said:

He could, as an undergrad, be paralegal intern at a major firm he hopes can help him get into law school. But certainly not in a position giving legal advice. Bizarre. Sure, maybe a cutesy hypothetical legal question in the interview, but she came right out and said "the job is legal advice."

So I didn't realize that the whole gimmick casting of Katey Sagal as Stephen's mother is because, well, Katey Sagal is the actor's mother! Had no idea Jackson White was her kid.

Now that I know that, I can totally see it, especially in the mouth and lips!  I don't find him all that attractive honestly,  but maybe it's because I hate his character so much. 

[gesundheit]

8 minutes ago, mansonlamps said:

Now that I know that, I can totally see it, especially in the mouth and lips!  I don't find him all that attractive honestly,  but maybe it's because I hate his character so much. 

I could be wrong but I don't think he's supposed to be particularly hot -- I think that's part of it. I took a peek at the show's hashtag on Twitter the other day and was cracking up at all these women talking about how they, too, had gotten sucked in by some ugly toxic guy who was magnetic due to his intensity. I've definitely seen that play out. Made me wonder if it's somehow easier to get pulled in by a toxic okay-looking person than someone super-attractive, because with the latter you're at higher alert? I can't quite think of a way to articulate it but it's something like that. Like when you're young and someone's less beautiful, you trust that your feelings aren't about the beauty so you buy into it more.

[AnimeMania]

S01.E05: Merry F*cking Christmas

Lucy and Stephen go home for winter break and deal with family tension. Meanwhile, Lucy uncovers a secret. 

Original Air Date: September 21, 2022

[peachmangosteen]

Another boring episode, but practically no sex scenes so at least there's that lol.

[gesundheit]

On 9/21/2022 at 5:40 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Another boring episode, but practically no sex scenes so at least there's that lol.

Exactly, hardly thrilling but let's not look a gift horse in the mouth! And thankfully that final moment implies some movement on the truth about his connection to her roommate.

[mandymax]

It was interesting to get that insight into Stephen's home life (and I had no idea he was Katy Segal's son!  I adore her).  It was also interesting to see/have confirmed that Lucy is a real brat.  

But I hated the way she discovered the rose drawing: there's a memorial at Macy's house, which seems to simply be a handful of people milling around the ground floor, no one greeting the guests or even answering the door, no one making speeches or sharing memories of Macy, nothing to indicate this is a memorial in any way whatsoever, and then Lucy just shoots right upstairs with no one stopping her, locates Macy's bedroom immediately, and there JUST HAPPENS to be an open box sitting on Macy's bed (for the last four months?) that JUST HAPPENS to contain the rose drawing only three layers in? That was such a lazy reveal that completely defied any sort of imagination.  Shame on the writers.

Are there really only 5 episodes left to cover 8 years' worth of stuff?  I hope this isn't a huge lead-up to just have the final scene be Lucy and Stephen smiling at each other and saying, "Long time no see."

[MaggieG]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:03 PM, gesundheit said:

He could, as an undergrad, be paralegal intern at a major firm he hopes can help him get into law school. But certainly not in a position giving legal advice. Bizarre. Sure, maybe a cutesy hypothetical legal question in the interview, but she came right out and said "the job is legal advice."

So I didn't realize that the whole gimmick casting of Katey Sagal as Stephen's mother is because, well, Katey Sagal is the actor's mother! Had no idea Jackson White was her kid.

Oh dang, that's interesting. I wonder if she's watching all the sex scenes. Awkward. Since that means Kurt Sutter is his stepfather, I wonder if they named the character Jax from SOA after him (Any Sons of Anarchy fans on here?)

[CarpeFelis]

Episode 5 gave me some of the answers I’ve been waiting for. I had wondered what was up with Stephen’s mom and her phone call earlier. She’s quite the piece of work, a manipulative, needy narcissist who’s aging and losing her looks. (Katey Sagal is gorgeous but it seems they were lighting her harshly to make her look as bad as possible. Compare how she looks here with how she looks in The Conners.) It was obvious the coffee burn was deliberate on her part to get sympathy. And she manipulated Stephen into choosing the restaurant the dad would be at so she could say it wasn’t her choice. It’s easy to see how Stephen became so manipulative. Around a parent like her, to avoid having their life made miserable, a kid would develop some skills at reading the room and telling people what they want to hear.

His gaslighting Lucy into being the one to apologize when she wondered why he wouldn’t be seen with her around people they knew? Really pissed me off. The guy is an expert at DARVO. I can see how a kid would get good at that around a mother like his, but that doesn’t excuse his using it anywhere else.

The interview was a joke. It was painfully obvious he was lying about having been to Europe. And here’s a little tip: when you’re interviewing for an internship with a stuffy law office, you might not want to hold your hand up to your face and prominently display a dagger that looks like a freakin’ prison tattoo.

The other answer I was looking for: I was wondering what heinous thing Lucy’s mom was supposed to have done. OK, yes, it is pretty bad that she was with James and not answering the phone when her husband died. Now I’m wondering exactly how Lucy knew this, or if she’s just assuming that she was with James rather than at an appointment because she’s since found out her mom was seeing him.

Going back an episode or two: Tim is THE WORST. I hope Bree was using her teeth when she gave him the BJ. This schmuck has apparently never heard of the concepts of foreplay or making sure his partner is satisfied (not sure he’s real clear on consent, either). Nope, it’s all about him, wham, bam, thank you ma’am. It was unfortunate that Bree felt compelled to lie to her girlfriends that sex with him was good, because they could have given her a reality check on that. And he has the nerve to dis her for having been a virgin and not telling him?! What “responsibility”? (This sort of crap makes me feel very lucky that my first time was a really good experience within a caring relationship.)

[Guest]

On 9/23/2022 at 5:36 AM, mandymax said:

Are there really only 5 episodes left to cover 8 years' worth of stuff?  I hope this isn't a huge lead-up to just have the final scene be Lucy and Stephen smiling at each other and saying, "Long time no see."

I have resigned myself to it ending basically like that. I’m guessing the plan is to make this season cover Lucy’s freshman year and bookend the show with short looks at the future. Which is such a bad plan. 

[AnimeMania]

S01.E06: And I'm Sorry if I dissed you

Lucy confronts Stephen about what she found at Macy’s memorial.

Original Air Date: September 28, 2022

[CarpeFelis]

I don’t know why Hulu says 9/28 as episode 6 was available tonight. I’ll put my comments in a spoiler tag just in case.

Spoiler

I so want Stephen to get a richly deserved comeuppance. (Agree with the commenters who were hoping this was a “who killed Stephen” mystery story.) Who the hell does he think he is, getting all obsessed over Diana having slept with Wrigley ONCE before she even met him (Stephen), given how much lying and cheating HE’S done? What a hypocrite. I thought for sure when he and Wrigley got into the sauna that he was going to leave Wrigley in there and block the door. And speaking of hypocrisy… he pumps Wrigley for blackmail material about Pippa and then when Wrigley asks him about Lucy he “doesn’t talk about her that way”. What an asshole.

As for Lucy: Evan hit the nail square on the head when he said there was a difference between being oblivious and willfully ignoring things. She doesn’t seem quite as self-destructive here as in the book, but she’s sure coming across as a fool.

[gesundheit]

Wow. Okay, I guess we've officially shifted from "Stephen is a run-of-the-mill young asshole whose brain hasn't finished developing and still has time to grow" to "Stephen may well be a sociopath." What a prick.

Also, what did I miss? Was this the first we heard that Stephen was in the car with Macy and just... left? And somehow this endeared him to Lucy further?

And somehow this whole friend group still exists in 8 years?

[mandymax]

3 hours ago, gesundheit said:

And somehow this whole friend group still exists in 8 years?

To be fair, I kept in close touch with my college friends for years after graduation, and most of us still sort of keep tabs on each other through social media nearly 30 years later.  Eight years isn't very long in the grand scheme of things.

I'm REALLY wondering what the point of this whole show is by this point.  I didn't read the book, so I don't know if there's supposed to be a plot, but I'm not seeing one.  All we're getting is a bunch of college kids doing things they'll look back on in the future and roll their eyes over, and two of them are more messed up than the rest.  That's basically it.

[gesundheit]

14 minutes ago, mandymax said:

To be fair, I kept in close touch with my college friends for years after graduation, and most of us still sort of keep tabs on each other through social media nearly 30 years later.  Eight years isn't very long in the grand scheme of things.

That's completely normal, but did a few of you participate in a criminal coverup? A hit-and-run resulting in a teenager's death?

[CarpeFelis]

4 hours ago, gesundheit said:

Wow. Okay, I guess we've officially shifted from "Stephen is a run-of-the-mill young asshole whose brain hasn't finished developing and still has time to grow" to "Stephen may well be a sociopath." What a prick.

Also, what did I miss? Was this the first we heard that Stephen was in the car with Macy and just... left? And somehow this endeared him to Lucy further?

And somehow this whole friend group still exists in 8 years?

Even before I read the book there was no doubt in my mind that Stephen is a sociopath and a narcissist. He treats women as if they’re toys to be tossed away when he gets bored or annoyed, and has no guilt over hurting them. But he wants them back the minute they have any interest in another guy.

I think this was the first time we heard that Stephen was in the car with Macy, though I’d suspected it. No wonder he was so invested in Drew not telling anyone about the crash. 

They’ve changed a lot from the book, which I just read a couple of days ago. In the book,

Spoiler

Macy was barely an acquaintance to Lucy and didn’t go to Baird. She lived in the same town as Stephen. She was giving him a ride home but he was driving, she was giving him a BJ, and he lost control of her car and crashed into a tree. Bastard escaped without a scratch. There was no Drew. He’s been added for the series.

Lucy was anorexic. The Unforgivable Thing was still her mom cheating, but her dad was very much alive. There was this 23-year-old tennis instructor who 14-year-old Lucy had a crush on. After one of her lessons he kissed her and put his hand up her shirt, but that was as far as it went. Then she came home early one day and saw her mom in bed with him. CJ never knew Lucy saw them until years later. Considering that Lucy treating her so coldly started then, you’d think she’d have been smart enough to figure out Lucy knew, but nooo….

Stephen’s mom was bipolar and refused to take her medication. Could be Katey Sagal’s character is also bipolar. But in the book, his dad finally got fed up with her increasingly careless antics and left her when Stephen was little, so the mom didn’t figure into the story much.

42 minutes ago, mandymax said:

I'm REALLY wondering what the point of this whole show is by this point.  I didn't read the book, so I don't know if there's supposed to be a plot, but I'm not seeing one.  All we're getting is a bunch of college kids doing things they'll look back on in the future and roll their eyes over, and two of them are more messed up than the rest.  That's basically it.

IMO the book was a cautionary tale about a) recognizing signs that a guy is seriously bad news and how miserable he can make you if you willfully ignore those signs, and b) what can happen if you give up your own ambitions to let your life revolve around some guy (which applies even if he isn’t an asshole like Stephen).

Spoiler

Lucy selected Baird partly to get as far away from CJ as possible, but also because of the overseas trip she was dying to go on. But once accepted, she turned it down to spend the summer with Stephen and lied to everyone that her application was denied. She let her courses in her journalism minor slide, so instead of becoming a travel writer, she ended up with a job she hated. Even after going to a therapist, who put her on antidepressants she badly needed and told her Stephen’s behavior was narcissistic and sociopathic, she only managed to stop seeing Stephen for a while and eventually let him suck her back in one last time. He then screwed her over again (surprise, surprise) and she finally had enough and didn’t see him again until Bree’s wedding. Where he tried again even though he had a fiancée there with him, and she turned him down.

Edited September 28, 2022 by CarpeFelis

[mandymax]

1 hour ago, gesundheit said:

That's completely normal, but did a few of you participate in a criminal coverup? A hit-and-run resulting in a teenager's death?

Yeah, no - can't say any of us ever did that.

[gesundheit]

Just now, mandymax said:

Yeah, no - can't say any of us ever did that.

Exactly, seems like the type of thing that would make folks want to move on to healthier bonds!

[xhoipolloix]

I hate Stephen so much it was difficult to watch episode 6 in full. He's such a cruel liar, and Lucy is so lame. It's hard to find anyone to root for in this mess.

[SoWindsor]

4 hours ago, xhoipolloix said:

I hate Stephen so much it was difficult to watch episode 6 in full. He's such a cruel liar, and Lucy is so lame. It's hard to find anyone to root for in this mess.

Agreed. I had to keep pausing it because Stephen is so horrific. I hate him so much I don’t know if I can keep watching it. He’s an unlikeable villain unlike Daemon from House of the Dragon or Don Draper.

I’m assuming he lied about being in the car?? Otherwise he also left the scene of a crime and didn’t call an ambulance or anything. Why would Lucy than give him compassion? 

I can’t believe he is telling Diana what she did BEFORE they met was somehow worse than him cheating on her while they were in a relationship! 

And the way he manipulates his friends! I hate him!!!!

Edited September 29, 2022 by SoWindsor