S19.E04: Week 4

[phlebas]

I still like Rachel, but I get why a lot of people here think she's a whiny child.

Literally everyone, including herself, saw her as the frontrunner on Clayton's season. (Arguably, Clayton did too until Susie decided to leave and he latched on like a horny lamprey.)  But it all came crashing down when she realized she was going through all this and not being chosen, but very much feeling like a backup.

With that fresh in her mind as this was being filmed, she's a little oversensitive when it feels like she's a backup choice on her own season.  I don't think that's what her guys meant, except maybe Logan, but this is right on the heels of getting rejected multiple times at a rose ceremony by men who picked not getting a rose from Gabby over getting to spend more time with her.

If she were a little older or a little more seasoned, this might not be an issue. (That said, Gabby is a little older and more seasoned and had a similar reaction when she dropped in at the mansion.)

I think Rachel is basically a sweet, good-hearted young woman who has been given a minor neurosis from this franchise.  She's hardly the first. (See "Randolph, Cassie" for more information, or pretty much anyone who ever kissed Pilot Pete.)

[aqusdealer]

13 hours ago, phlebas said:

I think Rachel is basically a sweet, good-hearted young woman who has been given a minor neurosis from this franchise.

I'm new to The Bachelorette and must admit I didn't care for Rachels behavior in episodes 1-4, but I may have painted her with too broad a brush. I looked up the last three episodes of The Bachelor and felt guilty when I saw how genuinely she was hurting. Clayton played Gaby, Rachel and Susie like an immature dick. He needs to grow up. It's awful to see someone made to feel bad about themselves.

[canaanite2]

On 8/2/2022 at 7:34 AM, SallyAlbright said:

I think because production is probably in her ear saying "none of the guys are talking to you or even looking at you. Why do you think that is? Does that upset you? Look how much attention Gabby is getting!"

This exact scenario played out with both Clare and Michelle in recent seasons (and Gabby two episodes ago at the house) where the guys did an activity, ignored them, and then the girls had a meltdown about feeling "unseen." I'm convinced it's just a go-to plotline now. What I don't understand is why as it's not fun to watch these women have insecure breakdowns. 

Unfortunately, I think it's because they know there are women in the audience who enjoy seeing another woman suffer, especially if that suffering woman is young and pretty and seems to "have it all." I would hope the percentage of female audience members who feel this way is dwindling with every season, but as long as they keep playing this card, that means there's still a good number out there watching. 

[limecoke]

This is a train wreck. Tears, whining, contrived drama then more tears. It’s exhausting. And Hayden, dude, using your tragically ill dog to wring a rose and another week on tv out of an insecure woman is beyond low. What a jerk. What a disgusting creep. When I saw him whip out his dog book…well…there’s no eyeroll big enough. But that Virgin cruise ship is really cool.

[Real4real]

If Gabby doesn’t want Nate, please send him my way 🌹🌹🌹🌹He can have all my roses!  I think I might have swooned a little bit when he was telling Gabby all the sweet little things he noticed about her!

Edited August 6, 2022 by Real4real

[Maximadc]

Quote

Interesting… I have totally different opinion about this episode. I think that Rachel was emotionally challenged by the producers of the show by creating unnecessary drama that could be avoided. There was no reason to drag Rachel and her boys to Gabby’s group date where the guys had to fight for her and tell her about their feelings before their turn to fight. I can totally see how it can make Rachel feel insecure, especially because the only fun she had on her group date was to smell armpits. Why didn’t  Gabby and her crew attend Rachel’s date?
Hayden was another humiliating experience as well as the next week episode guy. I felt uncomfortable watching this and the previous episode with three refusals. 
 

PS. I think Rachel and Gabby should have experienced their own independent journeys after the decision they made last week. But no, let’s torture emotionally fragile Rachel and get more viewers as our ratings are down.

[Melonie77]

8 hours ago, Maximadc said:

Interesting… I have totally different opinion about this episode. I think that Rachel was emotionally challenged by the producers of the show by creating unnecessary drama that could be avoided. There was no reason to drag Rachel and her boys to Gabby’s group date where the guys had to fight for her and tell her about their feelings before their turn to fight. I can totally see how it can make Rachel feel insecure, especially because the only fun she had on her group date was to smell armpits. Why didn’t  Gabby and her crew attend Rachel’s date?
Hayden was another humiliating experience as well as the next week episode guy. I felt uncomfortable watching this and the previous episode with three refusals. 
 

PS. I think Rachel and Gabby should have experienced their own independent journeys after the decision they made last week. But no, let’s torture emotionally fragile Rachel and get more viewers as our ratings are down.

Having Rachel and her guys attend the fight date made great sense but not if (as we suspect) the producers caused trouble by whispering in Rachel's ear pointing out how the guys were ignoring her, etc. I was really surprised at how Rachel behaved as both girls seemed to be supportive of each other. There should not have been a problem with her supporting Gabby and enjoying the show. And of course her group of men were happy to be included. 

There were also other people at the fight serving as an audience - perhaps crew members from the show or the ship.

This was a performance type date and it was held onboard so it was easy to include Rachel and her men. The stupid armpit date took place on shore and wasn't the type of event to have an audience.

I think a combination of the producer's meddling on top of Rachel's apparent issues created an unpleasant situation for both participants and viewers alike.

[Melonie77]

On 8/4/2022 at 9:16 AM, phlebas said:

I still like Rachel, but I get why a lot of people here think she's a whiny child.

Literally everyone, including herself, saw her as the frontrunner on Clayton's season. (Arguably, Clayton did too until Susie decided to leave and he latched on like a horny lamprey.)  But it all came crashing down when she realized she was going through all this and not being chosen, but very much feeling like a backup.

With that fresh in her mind as this was being filmed, she's a little oversensitive when it feels like she's a backup choice on her own season.  I don't think that's what her guys meant, except maybe Logan, but this is right on the heels of getting rejected multiple times at a rose ceremony by men who picked not getting a rose from Gabby over getting to spend more time with her.

If she were a little older or a little more seasoned, this might not be an issue. (That said, Gabby is a little older and more seasoned and had a similar reaction when she dropped in at the mansion.)

I think Rachel is basically a sweet, good-hearted young woman who has been given a minor neurosis from this franchise.  She's hardly the first. (See "Randolph, Cassie" for more information, or pretty much anyone who ever kissed Pilot Pete.)

These are some really great points and I agree with a lot of your thoughts. I had forgotten how Rachel did seem to be the frontrunner for a good part of Clayton's season. 

But I think that the rejections Gabby went through this season were worse than what Rachel experienced. She was told by one bachelor that she was rough around the edges and another said he would leave if she was the only available girl. Those were more personal insults compared to the men who politely turned down Rachel's rose.

The editing certainly could be making Rachel look worse than she is but my gut still tells me there is something off about her - some big signs were when she marched down to tell the guys off.

Hopefully the producers will back off as the season continues. Maybe they will show less footage of whining and crying now that they have seen the backlash of viewers complaining.  I like seeing the girls support each other.

[Real4real]

15 hours ago, Melonie77 said:

But I think that the rejections Gabby went through this season were worse than what Rachel experienced. She was told by one bachelor that she was rough around the edges and another said he would leave if she was the only available girl. Those were more personal insults compared to the men who politely turned down Rachel's rose.

Gabby’s rejections were very cutting and hit her hard.  Rachel’s rejections might have been less personal, but they were done in a very public way, which hit her just as hard.  Producer planned?  Gabby seems less confident in her physical appearance—and that’s what was attacked.  Rachel seems less emotionally confident, so let’s publicly humiliate her.  Sneaky stuff.

[Alexander Pope]

On 8/5/2022 at 9:31 AM, canaanite2 said:

Unfortunately, I think it's because they know there are women in the audience who enjoy seeing another woman suffer, especially if that suffering woman is young and pretty and seems to "have it all." I would hope the percentage of female audience members who feel this way is dwindling with every season, but as long as they keep playing this card, that means there's still a good number out there watching. 

This is a very interesting point.  It makes me think though that over time the producers have become much more sexist.  Emily would never have been humiliated like this and her season was a big hit as I recall.  Women also enjoy watching strong women who take no crap have handsome men fight over them.

[DEL901]

10 minutes ago, Alexander Pope said:

This is a very interesting point.  It makes me think though that over time the producers have become much more sexist.  Emily would never have been humiliated like this and her season was a big hit as I recall.  Women also enjoy watching strong women who take no crap have handsome men fight over them.

But that was partly because Emily knew exactly how she wanted to be portrayed and how much the producers wanted her as the lead.    She even got it in her contract that no Fantasy Suites would be in the show which would have to act like she didn’t use them….but it was confirmed that she did.  

[SallyAlbright]

8 hours ago, DEL901 said:

But that was partly because Emily knew exactly how she wanted to be portrayed and how much the producers wanted her as the lead.    She even got it in her contract that no Fantasy Suites would be in the show which would have to act like she didn’t use them….but it was confirmed that she did.  

This is why Emily is still my all-time favorite Bachelorette. She knew her worth, didn't take any crap, but in a very classy way not a rude aggressive way. She knew she was a catch and had that quiet confidence that made all of the men genuinely pursue her. I also love that post-show she did exactly what she said she wanted to do, which was go back to a normal life, get married and have a big family. She seems happy as can be now and I think that's because she truly never needed the show or wanted fame or an influencer career. 

Sadly, I think some of the main producers have changed from the time of Emily's season and the show feels much nastier in terms of emotional manipulation now. 

[Black Knight]

I think with Emily's season, because she was A Mother Whose Partner/Child's Father Died, the show made an effort to cast sincere guys instead of ones who just wanted camera time or to be the next bachelor. (And some wrong reasons dudes stayed away out of the recognition that pulling this on The Grieving Mother's season wouldn't work out well for them.) It's probably not a coincidence that one of the very few Bachelors to actually get married to his final-final choice started out on Emily's season.

The producers are worse, but I also wonder if with the guys especially, they've just sort of given up on finding right reasons men as either Bachelors or contestants, and think by this point the Bachelorettes ought to know better than to be sincerely trying to find a lasting commitment, and so they deserve whatever humiliation the show might dish out. There are almost no genuine love stories coming out of this franchise, which makes it hard to hold onto right reasons viewers, so they're going all in on the draaaaaaama instead to try to hold onto the wrong reasons viewers.

[nlkm9]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:31 PM, SallyAlbright said:

This is why Emily is still my all-time favorite Bachelorette. She knew her worth, didn't take any crap, but in a very classy way not a rude aggressive way. She knew she was a catch and had that quiet confidence that made all of the men genuinely pursue her. I also love that post-show she did exactly what she said she wanted to do, which was go back to a normal life, get married and have a big family. She seems happy as can be now and I think that's because she truly never needed the show or wanted fame or an influencer career. 

Sadly, I think some of the main producers have changed from the time of Emily's season and the show feels much nastier in terms of emotional manipulation now. 

there was a scene when Emily was sobbing after participating in a nascar like activity, and it looked very fake to me. she was a great bachlorette because she was so attractive and if she was truly still grieving, played a little hard to get. these 2 seem desparate, and gabis outfits scream "desperation.

[queta]

Ug. Rachel, girl! Pull it together. Why are you so insecure? You're pretty and have a cool job. Who cares if some random guy isn't into you?

Your overreaction to the guys' behavior at the fight was embarrassing and unfair.

This season is a train wreck.

Edited August 17, 2022 by queta