Malcolm Merlyn: Ra's al Dark Archer - Who's Your Daddy!

[BkWurm1]

It's hard to believe that we hadn't yet dedicated a thread to the magnetic and maniacal Malcolm Merlyn.  I have high expectations of him this year and the hint of the dynamic we have seen between Malcolm and Thea (and John and Willa) has me very excited and enthused about the third season. 

 

I'd say my excitement has hit levels high enough to let bygones be bygones over that little dead/not dead, nope not explaining what happened thing that went on at the start of season two. 

 

Interestingly to me, I recently had a friend - a long time comic buff - that just finished watching the first season.  He's not yet super impressed with Oliver.  His first complaint was that not only did he not manage to stop the Undertaking, but he couldn't even actually kill Merlyn.   

 

I accused him of being spoiled but he said no, that it was just really obvious to him that Malcolm wasn't dead - something about not seeing the body buried.  Maybe because he is a long time comics reader he knew to assume alive unless absolutely dead (but sometimes even not then). 

[Genki]

I'm excited too…Mainly because I love Barrowman's enthusiasm. Honestly I could take or leave Malcolm in season 1 and was not that excited about the "Resurrection" last season. But the interview from the up fronts built my enthusiasm for Season 3, also

Tommy Flashback!!

.

 

I'm really interested in in seeing the dynamic between Thea and her Bio-Daddy.

 

[KirkB]

Barrowman is one of those actors I like enough I would watch things he's in that I might not watch otherwise. He's just so much fun. Plus, a lot of actors like playing the villain because you can really cut loose in a way you can't as the hero.

[fantique]

I love the title of this thread.

I seriously loved seeing the Barrowman and Willa interaction and I am sooo looking forward to their scenes always toeing the line between creepy and sweet.

I really liked his scenes in season 1 where he was polite and seemingly nice and yet on screen you could see there was something off and cold... It was great!!!

[BkWurm1]

I love the title of this thread.

 

Thanks!  Once I pictured Barrowman saying it, I had to include it.  ;) 

 

I'm excited too…Mainly because I love Barrowman's enthusiasm.

 

I think he too sees the room for a lot of room for a fun slash interesting slash creepy dynamic and that makes me trust he will keep those writers and showrunners on their toes. 

 

Plus, a lot of actors like playing the villain because you can really cut loose in a way you can't as the hero.

 

And really, is there anything holding Malcolm back from being exactly who he is anymore?  He's already shown his true colors to Thea (I'm so proud you shot me!) He'll really get a chance to strut his stuff. 

 

I seriously loved seeing the Barrowman and Willa interaction and I am sooo looking forward to their scenes always toeing the line between creepy and sweet.

 

I very much agree. 

[Luckylyn]

As a rule I hate when a villain is kept around too long after the character's expiration date (ex: Heroes, Sylar).  Yet when Malcolm was brought back I was thrilled.  I just can't resist the JB magnetism.  I can't wait for Malcolm and Thea to spare/bond.  The scene when Thea shot him and his reaction was pride was crazy in the best way.   I trust JB to keep his performance interesting no matter what the writers throw at him.

[catrox14]

Love the thread name, and may I say.  I think John Barrowman would love it too.  I love me some Malcolm Merlyn

 

I have been so impressed with JB here. I loved him on Torchwood and really thought he did some great work on that show, but sometimes he was given to "Big" acting that I think came from being on stage for so long.  I saw signs of how good he would be in a villainous role during certain episodes of Torchwood wherein he was not a very nice Jack Harkness. 

 

But what I love about him here is that he seems to go right up to the OTT edge and just teeters without going so far over that it's annoying.  So glad he's back!

[BkWurm1]

Love the thread name, and may I say.  I think John Barrowman would love it too

 

Aw, made my day.  :D

[GreyBunny]

John Barrowman is the only and mean THE ONLY reason I'm watching this show!  

 

I love him, he's one of my favorite personalities ever.  

 

He made me fall in love with Malcolm Merlyn and I'm over the moon that he not only survived the first season but is going to be a regular.  

 

I don't even care about any of the other characters, I just want to follow Malcolm around everywhere.

[tv echo]

JB as Malcolm Merlyn brings to the show what EBR as Felicity brings to the show - but in a different way.  Let me explain.  Felicity brings a light cheeky humor to the show, while Malcolm brings a dark cheeky humor to the show.  Without them, we would've been left with a pretty humorless cast of characters headed by dour Oliver, bitter Laurel, sad Thea, wooden Roy, tortured Sara and serious Quentin - okay, maybe the occasional quip from Diggle.  (To clarify, I am not talking about or comparing acting abilities at all, I'm only talking about the characters.)

Edited August 21, 2014 by tv echo

[wingster55]

I think Thea was a source of humor for a good portion of her screen time, until late in s2. 

I expect a bit of a humorous interaction with Malcolm as opposed to pure drama or what not. 

[Password]

I can't wait for Thea and crazy daddy Merlyn. It'll be (potentially) epic.

[calliope1975]

I can't remember if this was answered on the show - was Merlyn in the LOA before he had a family? Or did he leave Tommy after his wife died and found the LOA? Or, none of the above.

[NumberCruncher]

It was after his wife died.  Tommy specifically mentions that after his mom was murdered Malcolm disappeared for a long time so we're left to assume he ended up in Nanda Parbat.  Malcolm later mentions that while he was there, he met Ra's al Ghul.

Edited August 21, 2014 by NumberCruncher

[KirkB]

Over in the Thea topic they are talking about Thea using Malcolm to get stronger and then turning on him, maybe coming up with her own Machiavellian plot that outdoes his own. One of the things I love about Malcolm is as he is being dragged off to jail (or to Nanda Parbat, or dying or whatever) he would be smiling and saying how proud he is of her. The more intelligent, sneaky and capable she turns out to be, the more he'll be glad she's his daughter.

[statsgirl]

Yeah.  He was so proud when she shot him.

 

In my mind, Rebecca cheated on Malcom and Tommy isn't really his son.

[tv echo]

I previously posted this article link in the Spoilers thread (before this thread existed) because it mentions Season 3, but there isn't really anything too spoilerish in it.  On the other hand, the article contains some great insights about Malcolm Merlyn by John Barrowman, so I think it should be included in this thread:

 

Interview: John Barrowman Mentors Season 3 of ‘Arrow’
Posted by: Kyle Wilson  26 days ago 

http://nerdrepository.com/interview-john-barrowman-mentors-season-3-arrow/

Edited September 1, 2014 by tv echo

[tv echo]

John Barrowman was on The Talking Dead last night.  He seemed more subdued than usual, but maybe he was just deferring to the host, Chris Hardwicke.  Apparently, JB has been watching TWD since its pilot episode.  He sounded quite knowledgeable and enthusiastic about the show.  At the end of TTD, Chris gave a quick mention that JB stars on Arrow.

[JayKay]

I watched TWD last night just so that I would know what Barrowman was talking about. I really loved how positive and encouraging he was towards the actress, who was beaming like she couldn't help it. I get why Malcolm was resurrected: Who wouldn't want to be around that kind of energy everyday at work?

[chaos is welcome]

So, rewatched 3.09.   Has Merlyn always worn his wedding ring?  That caught my eye and made me go hmmmmm.  Curious if he wore it in S1 and S2.  If he didn't, I have to think its a significant retcon for motivation reasons . . . .

[kismet]

Not sure who out there watches Scandal. But caught up on few scenes I missed this week. Damn Papa Pope puts Malcolm & Ras to shame, with his villainy & lengths he goes to for justice & The Republic! Also the stuff he has done to his daughter or allowed to happen under his command to his daughter are truly unthinkable. He's pretty good example of a villain I love to hate. Like Sloan from Alias, he just gets under your skin in all the right & wrong ways that you can't help but want to kill him and yet don't want to see him leave. I felt that way about Malcolm until he kinda puttered out this seasons. Fingers Crossed for s4, they find someway to make me love to hate MM, not just wonder when he's gonna get the hint to buy his own soup & rent a hotel room already.

[DrSpaceman10]

I don't know where to put this, but is John Barrowman still a regular on Arrow? 

[Sunshine]

JB has been talking like he is.  The set-up in S3 was also that Ra's had a competitor for the title - Damian Dhark. 

Edited May 26, 2015 by Sunshine

[kismet]

I'm in the minority of people that don't want to see MM die (at least not yet). I think he has the potential to be a series-long arch-rival/villain. That being said, they needed to stop trying to redeem him so much in s3. I'm all for OQ not wanting MM's death to be on Thea's conscience. But he should have been handed over to the authorities by the end of s3, not just handed the LoA power ring. That was when I called Bullshit on this story-arc. How great would it have been to see OQ hand over the ring, and then MM all smug walk out of the loft & straight into police/FBI/ARGUS/anyone custody. It would have required a pseudo double-cross on OQ's part, but not really because he would have held up his end of the bargain and provided the LoA on a silver platter. It's not OQ's fault MM got caught... anyone could have called in the tip. A lot of people on TA have valid reasons & opportunities to call in the tip to the authorities. MM need pay some type of recompense for his crimes, and becoming the next RAs was not justice for anyone. Its just unfortunate story telling.

 

MM in prison I think would have been a better way to end s3. But I wonder if they couldn't do that because they needed him out of prison & RAs for the LoT set-up.

If MM needs access to LPs to bring SL back from the dead for LoT, than perhaps its the spinoff's fault that MM is neither dead or in prison. It does feel like they could have changed their plans once SL's resurrection via LP was required. On one hand, I'm excited to have SL back. But on the other hand, I'm pissed if they made MM Ras just to fulfill this happening. So now, I guess I'm bitter again about the spin-off & SL's death again. They really never should have killed her in the first place. And they never should have had MM be the responsible party for initiating the idea. If she had to die, it should have been on the original Ra's orders, even if MM was the one to facilitate it.

[Sunshine]

I read somewhere (sorry, don't remember the source) that MG said the plan at the beginning of S3 was to make MM Ra's by the S3 finale.  It's why I tend to think of MM as the big bad of the season. Most of the stupidity of the season is caused by plot points to make JB's character relevant.  I like JB but am pretty much over MM.

[AyChihuahua]

They could have made Nyssa RAG, which is what I thought they were going to do. She'd be at least interested in resurrecting Sara. Everything they do to keep Malcolm relevant and on the show makes Oliver an idiot, and they totally defanged Malcolm as a competent/scary villain in S3. I mean, his S1 plot was pretty intelligent, if psychopathic (he'd bought up property in the Glades to make money rebuilding it, he had a backup earthquake machine, faking a natural disaster would have kept him out of prison, etc.). His S3 plan was absolutely idiotic (set up Oliver to fight RAG knowing "an archer can't beat a swordsman," especially one who's been swordfighting for 100+ years, and that Oliver could save Thea by just dying instead of having to beat RAG). The ONLY reason Malcolm got what he wanted was PLOT and Oliver's unbearable stupidity. Also, JB plays him way too hammy now, and I don't know that he can dial it back anymore. It's like there's too much JB in MM now.

[kismet]

The writers really have to be careful with what they do with MM moving forward. They definitely ruined a lot of his appeal in s3. His plans were absolutely stupid and then made OQ stupid by association. That being said, he has potential if they move him back towards the psychopath & master manipulator he was in s1. But I still don't think making him Ras was a smart idea either on the show or in the writers' room.

 

But like most of s3, I am trying to bury it all away - sweep the messiness under the rug & keep my fingers-crossed that they get their shit together for s4. Because s3 was friendly to none of the characters and the PLOT dictated way too much of the story.

[statsgirl]

MM said that no prison could hold him so they really couldn't have Oliver or Thea hand him over to the authorities now, especially the incredibly incompetent SCPD and Iron Heights Prison crew.  That ship sailed in episode 3x04,

 

Personally I wish they had made Nyssa Ra's because she deserved it more. Storywise, it's better that it be MM because he's psychotic enough to make it good, and it leaves Nyssa free to come and visit Starling City and the other show locations.  BUT I want him to be a recurring character, not main cast, because his storyline is so thin, there are holds showing.

 

My grandmother told me that when they made the pastry for strudel when she was growing up, they would start with a blob of dough in the middle of the table. Then you would stretch it out bit by bit, section by section, until it was so thin that you could read a newspaper through it. But if a hole happened, you have to start all over again.  That's how I feel about Malcolm Merlyn, that his storyline has been stretched so thin that there are holes all over the place. But  I really don't want them to start all over again though.

Edited August 30, 2015 by statsgirl

[kismet]

No prison could hold him... but an unwatched couch in the middle of a loft could? Not to be snarky, but MM's verbal bravado should have been tested. They could have put him in ARGUS prison or some max security prison that was not Iron Heights. Or at least made some attempt at getting justice for the 500+ victims & Sara. Even having LL or OQ tip off QL as part of her/his attempts to get back in his good graces. Perhaps FS called QL to thank him for saving OQ, and that was how she repaid the favor. I'm not saying it would of worked. I would have totally expected that he either break out of prison or manipulate himself some bullshit pardon (ala Sloan in ALIAS) by mid s4. All I'm saying is OQ or TA should have done something besides just hand over everything MM has been angling for all season, if not for many years.

Edited August 30, 2015 by kismet

[calliope1975]

No prison could hold him... but an unwatched couch in the middle of a loft could? Not to be snarky, but MM's verbal bravado should have been tested. They could have put him in ARGUS prison or some max security prison that was not Iron Heights. Or at least made some attempt at getting justice for the 500+ victims & Sara. 

 

I was just about to type this. No one even tried! MM made that comment, and Oliver was all - okay. Wut? I think I might have liked it better if they had turned MM over to Argus, put a bomb in his neck, and he had escaped. When Thea turned him over to the LOA, it looked like they had him under control pretty well. But as others have said, it was all about plot, not characterization last year. 

[kismet]

I was just about to type this. No one even tried! MM made that comment, and Oliver was all - okay. Wut? I think I might have liked it better if they had turned MM over to Argus, put a bomb in his neck, and he had escaped. When Thea turned him over to the LOA, it looked like they had him under control pretty well. But as others have said, it was all about plot, not characterization last year. 

It would have made a better plot for him to escape... nevermind characterization.

 

I seriously hoped that when he got back to NP, his secret alliance with Ras would have been revealed. That the MM BBQ was really all a ploy. But nah it was just Ras' way to get OQ to come over for dinner and woo him over soft candlelit & gossip.

[statsgirl]

I agree, they should have put him in ARGUS' supermax when he first showed up again in 3x04.  (I still think one of the stupidest things in s3 was that MM walked through the middle of Starling City and no one recognized him. The man's picture would have been all over news station 1 1/2 years before.)

 

Or yes, MM secretly working with Ra's to get Oliver.  (Although why Ra's would want Oliver would be hard to explain.)

 

My problem is that having accepted that no prison could hold him, they can't suddenly decide in 3x23 to put him in one, especially after he'd just help Oliver defeat Ra's. Granted, if he hadn't been around Ra's would never have targeted Oliver but he was, and he did, and Oliver needed Malcolm's help to get rid of him.

 

If either Diggle or Felicity had called QL and told him where to find Malcolm, I'd have a real problem with that. It would be like reneging on a deal (granted, one that Oliver made but still), or cheating since that Malcolm had helped them defeat Ra's.

 

Malcolm is scum, but that doesn't mean Felicity or Diggle can lower their moral code too.

[kismet]

Its not reneging on their moral code. Its finding another way to get justice for the victims & secure the safety of SC. OQ felt he needed to work with MM to beat Ras, which I understood. But its a world of grey that they all operate in. OQ held up his end of the bargain. He got him the LoA position, he handed him the ring. He made him the next Ras. What happens between the loft & the flight to NP is completely out of OQ's hands. Unless of course the bargain was MM's freedom, but I doubt OQ made that promise. But who knows with the stupid of s3 maybe he did. And if he promised him his freedom, than I wouldn't want OQ or TA to break that promise.

 

But I can understand why @statsgirl wouldn't want FS or Dig to do it. I don't think they would be my first choice either. Personally, I think the best option would have been LL to do it. Because frankly it fits her character. She's desperate to get her father & his approval back. She's stupid enough to double cross MM. She's careless enough to not care about promises OQ made. And lastly, it would make sense that as an officer of the court system, it would have been even the professional thing for her to do. Plus if she did it, I wouldn't have care too much about the consequences to her since I feel her character is expendable at this point, and 3 seasons have proven to me that LL rarely ever faces any consequences for her actions.

[AyChihuahua]

MM said that no prison could hold him so they really couldn't have Oliver or Thea hand him over to the authorities now, especially the incredibly incompetent SCPD and Iron Heights Prison crew.  That ship sailed in episode 3x04,

See, I find that maddening. He says it, thus it is so? Call his damn bluff, Oliver, you frigging moron. Even if Malcolm gets out (and Supermax ain't so easy to break out of), it will certainly harsh his mellow for all the world to know he's alive, and to be actively hunting him. No more nice brunches or meetings in public squares then. And honestly, why Felicity never went after his bank accounts I will never understand. Take away his money and out him, his life is going to become a lot less pleasant. Oliver was SO DUMB to be all "Okay Malcolm, in that case I'll just let you go so you can keep hanging your evil self out with my little sis and getting on with your evil machinations!"

If either Diggle or Felicity had called QL and told him where to find Malcolm, I'd have a real problem with that. It would be like reneging on a deal (granted, one that Oliver made but still), or cheating since that Malcolm had helped them defeat Ra's.

 

Malcolm is scum, but that doesn't mean Felicity or Diggle can lower their moral code too.

Not keeping a [really dumb] deal with an utter scumbag evil SOB is not lowering your moral code. Helping him escape any punishment and actually get everything he ever wanted IS lowering your moral code.

Edited August 30, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[dtissagirl]

I'm forever baffled that DISTRICT ATTORNEY LAUREL LANCE didn't out Merlyn to the authorities/press. This was her chance for the DA's office to try and save face for the Moira getting acquitted fiasco. She had no reason whatsoever to not do anything. Oliver was dumb for plot, but at least they gave him motivation to be dumb for plot. Laurel didn't do anything because they didn't write anything for her to do.

[statsgirl]

Laurel was stupid for plot too because they wanted to keep Barrowman around for next season head of the LoA.

 

Although they could have arrested him and then he escaped, heading to Nanda Parbat.

[dtissagirl]

Heh, yeah, I can both believe they intentionally went "let's have Laurel do nothing re: Malcolm", and that writers room didn't even consider Laurel wrt Malcolm, because they have a history of leaving Laurel out of plotlines that don't specifically belong to her. Either way, it makes her as dumb for plot as Oliver. Because Malcolm made everyone else stupid for plot in every single episode he appeared in S3.

 

You get the Ra's you deserve, show.

[EmilyBettFan]

MM annoys me. JB has had IMO a few good scenes. Once in season 1 when he yells at Tommy that everyone in the glades should die the way his wife did. Also his scenes with a Felicity (EBR).

[BkWurm1]

Heh, yeah, I can both believe they intentionally went "let's have Laurel do nothing re: Malcolm", and that writers room didn't even consider Laurel wrt Malcolm, because they have a history of leaving Laurel out of plotlines that don't specifically belong to her. Either way, it makes her as dumb for plot as Oliver. Because Malcolm made everyone else stupid for plot in every single episode he appeared in S3.

 

You get the Ra's you deserve, show.

She did try to kill him but it didn't go very well for her and Nyssa had to save her from Malcolm before Nyssa then took Malcolm into LoA custody.  But after that, no, she didn't do anything. 

[dtissagirl]

She did try to kill him but it didn't go very well for her and Nyssa had to save her from Malcolm before Nyssa then took Malcolm into LoA custody.  But after that, no, she didn't do anything. 

 

Yeah, I meant way earlier. She learns Malcolm is back in 304, when Laurel's still only the ADA, she's nowhere near being BC... and she does nothing about it whatsoever. It'd be sad if it weren't hilarious.

[BkWurm1]

Bumped to remind everyone that this thread exists.  Also, wondering if we should update the Dark Archer title  to something that reflects his new status as Ra's the pretender.  Suggestions?

Edited September 29, 2015 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

"Ra's al Dark Archer? aka Worst. Father. EVER."

Edited September 29, 2015 by catrox14

[BkWurm1]

"Ra's al Dark Archer? aka Worst. Father. EVER."

Ra's al Dark Archer.  I like that part a lot.  Maybe just tweak the title that little bit?  I confess to being partial to the tag line "Who's Your Daddy!"  It's sooo Barrowman. 

[catrox14]

Works for me! I love the Who's Your Daddy part too

[kismet]

How about -

 

Malcolm Merlyn - Who's your Daddy! Ras? Dark Archer? TBD?

 

I like the TBD, because who knows who he will be by s5 - allows for growth of the writer's pet :)

[BkWurm1]

Yay  to updating the name of the thread.  Clever but subtle, IMO.   :D 

Edited October 17, 2015 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

Hey! Collaboration on the name! ^5's

[kismet]

Yippeee!! ^5s all around :) Nice job on collaboration :)

 

Gotta say Im excited to see what JB is gonna bring to the RAs role. Have no idea, how he will be relevant to the DD or LoT story. But hey at least JB can act :) I don't want plot pretzels again, but JB didn't disappoint in those scenes. Seriously, think the only reason DD has any connection to LoA is to make him relevant to MM/JB. Otherwise, it really makes no sense to link a s3 to s4 villain via age-old vendetta & uhaul of stolen magic dipping water.

[AyChihuahua]

Otherwise, it really makes no sense to link a s3 to s4 villain via age-old vendetta & uhaul of stolen magic dipping water.

I just had a serious flash to a French Dip sandwich.

[kismet]

 

AyChihuahua, on 06 Jan 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:  

    Having just binged around half of Alias, he's seeming very Sloan-y to me. Utterly terrible human being played by an actor the producers want to keep around, so they write him as deciding to be "good," he does that for awhile, then in S5 it turns out he was bad all along (DERRRRRR). Ooh, with him helping Vandal Savage maybe he'll end S5 the same way Sloan did!

I have been saying they should make MM like Sloan for years now. The ALIAS writers did a really awesome job of somehow incorporating Sloan in all 5 seasons of ALIAS, without ever really compromising the character or making the audience forced to accept the character. They never really made him good or apologetic. He had human moments both good and bad, but he majority of his moments were manipulations & calculations. There was never anything completely above the board when it came to Sloan even with his closest family, allies & enemies. They had him be "good" for awhile, but they never redeemed him and rarely ever tried to. The majority of the characters rarely ever trusted him after s2 when he was first exposed.

The few that did trust him, suffered in the end for their trust. And even as they were trying to find a way to trust him, you could feel their struggle. he only person that really tried to bridge that gap was Nadia his surprise daughter. But considering she grew up as an orphan, it would make sense that she was trying to make a connection with any paternal figure. But that is not the case with TQ, she had two father figures, there is no need for the show to make her craving a father/daughter relationship with MM. So every time, they try to impose a paternalistic tone to TQ's interactions I just shake my head. They keep making TQ call him Dad and turn to him in a fatherly way. And that really takes me out of the show.

 

The problem with MM & Arrow is that they want us to believe MM is redeemed. They want us to consider him TQ's father, not just her biodad. I get MM perhaps having a paternal love for his surprise daughter that motivates some of his actions. But I also know that the most important person to MM is MM, so I am always going to be waiting for him to betray those he loves, because that is what he does. There is some level of redemption for MM, but the show is going out of their way to make him completely redeemed in the audience's eyes. MM exists best as a complicated master manipulator that lives in the morally grey with his own set of rules guiding him.

 

They want us to somehow accept him as a frenemy. Nobody trusted Sloane as a frenemy. He was not somebody to be trusted even when they had to work with him. It created a complex layer of characterizations & interactions. The only character that has verbalized a basic wariness & mistrust for MM is FS. Even OQ who has implied that he is a means to an end, has not indicated that MM cannot be trusted. So the writers need to get on board with writing characters verbally declaring that MM is not a trustworthy ally. He may be a means to an end, but he should not be trusted. The show is putting too many characters into trustworthy graces with MM. The best part of the crossover was when they showed him picking up VS's ashes. They need to do more of that and less bonding scenes with MM & TA.

Edited January 7, 2016 by kismet