S01.E02: Episode Two

[Scarlett45]

Quote

After a rocky 'first' meeting, Henry and Clare try to reset with a second date, but she still struggles to rectify this Henry with the man she knows and loves; Henry takes Clare back to the most formative moment of his childhood.

Air Date: May 22, 2022

[MzLiz]

This show is going to break my heart. Poor Henry. I’m surprised he’s still sane. 
 

Like a train wreck, but I can’t stop watching. Theo James is killing it. Rose is as well, but Theo really brings It. 
 

it’s probably a good thing it’s only 6 episodes. I’ll going to be bawling my eyes at the end, I just know it.
 

 

[mjc570]

That was so sad.  I have to say that I am just in awe of the casting, everyone (especially Theo James) is so perfect.  Well, everyone except Rose Leslie, but that's just my GoT carryover bitterness.  

I didn't read the book but I sure hope there are some bright spots in this, not sure I can make it through another 4 episodes like that.

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, MzLiz said:

This show is going to break my heart. Poor Henry. I’m surprised he’s still sane. 
 

Like a train wreck, but I can’t stop watching. Theo James is killing it. Rose is as well, but Theo really brings It. 
 

it’s probably a good thing it’s only 6 episodes. I’ll going to be bawling my eyes at the end, I just know it.
 

 

Theo is doing an excellent job. I’ve always liked him as an actor. 
 

Edited to add- the other side of great joy is sorrow. How wonderful it would be to see those I have loved that have died, but the heartbreak of having to lose them again and again. I like that with this series we get to explore these themes more in depth.
 

Was 16yrs old Henry de-aging CGI or did they cast someone? I’m thinking de-aging because they looked so much like Theo, it was a flash though. The 8yrs old Henry is quite talented too- the casting directors found a good match. 
 

I had to double check that it was a mini series, because it’s just kicking me in the gut. 

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, mjc570 said:

That was so sad.  I have to say that I am just in awe of the casting, everyone (especially Theo James) is so perfect.  Well, everyone except Rose Leslie, but that's just my GoT carryover bitterness.  

I didn't read the book but I sure hope there are some bright spots in this, not sure I can make it through another 4 episodes like that.

We’re you bitter about her role in GOT or it’s ending in general? I think Rose did a good job in GOT, it probably didn’t hurt that she got to act along side Kitt and fell in love with him in the process!

[Ms Blue Jay]

Showing the damn accident over and over and over and over and over and over (and over and over and over and over and over and over) (and over and over and over and over and over and over) is so damn punishing.  It's such a damn overused cliched trope.  How is that supposed to be good storytelling.  It's just punish, punish, punish the viewer.  That's all it is.

Henry's mother had a cellphone?   Didn't Henry say it was 1988?   I know cellphones existed back then, but.....

I have bitterness towards Rose Leslie from The Good Fight.  She licked her lips about 500 times per scene on that show and then was fired after Season 1.  I can tell she's trying not to do that so much here.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Starchild]

Like most of y'all, this show is really hitting me in the feels. I didn't read the book either so I'm not sure where this is going. I'm here for it though.

[meira.hand]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Showing the damn accident over and over and over and over and over and over (and over and over and over and over and over and over) (and over and over and over and over and over and over) is so damn punishing.  It's such a damn overused cliched trope.  How is that supposed to be good storytelling.  It's just punish, punish, punish the viewer.  That's all it is.

Maybe to drive home the reality of what he had to endure, over and over. Just telling feels sad, showing is harrowing.

[mjc570]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

We’re you bitter about her role in GOT or it’s ending in general? I think Rose did a good job in GOT, it probably didn’t hurt that she got to act along side Kitt and fell in love with him in the process!

Oh, definitely the ending.  I agree, she was fine, although I did find her character as written to be somewhat annoying.  And you're right, the side benefit didn't hurt.

[iMonrey]

I'm not crying, YOU'RE crying.

Man, that scene with little Henry trying to tell his mother the truth and 28-year old Henry mouthing along the words - stuff like that doesn't usually get to me but that really affected me somehow. I can just imagine the emotion of it. And the fact that he keeps getting pulled back to the day of the crash and there are about 20 different versions of him watching it. Yikes. This whole episode really hit me in the gut. I think anyone who has lost a parent can relate to the idea of being able to go back in time and seeing them again.

I appreciated the injection of levity, however brief, in the scene with 16-year old Henry going down on himself. I don't know if that was in the book or not; it almost suggests he can control his time travel to just be able to go back a few hours or a few days like that, which contradicts the premise.

I thought the ending with the tape recorder was a bit of a stretch. It was confusing because it was presented as though Henry was deciding, there and then, he would at some point go back and ask his mother Claire's question but in the flashback it's an older version of him stopping her, and then when she's on stage she speaks of him as though she doesn't know him, when earlier this episode it was established she knew his younger self quite well. The whole thing was a little too convoluted.

[Scarlett45]

47 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I appreciated the injection of levity, however brief, in the scene with 16-year old Henry going down on himself. I don't know if that was in the book or not; it almost suggests he can control his time travel to just be able to go back a few hours or a few days like that, which contradicts the premise.

Taking this to the book thread if you wish to know more. 

But I didn’t think that suggested Henry could control his time travel- he says he normally travels in his own lifetime, and we saw 1989 Henry (child who’s mom had just died), and 2008 Henry interacting in the museum- June 1988 Henry was at school at that time. 
 

It was just funny because Henry was young and hormonal and the memory “pulled him”.

47 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I thought the ending with the tape recorder was a bit of a stretch. It was confusing because it was presented as though Henry was deciding, there and then, he would at some point go back and ask his mother Claire's question but in the flashback it's an older version of him stopping her, and then when she's on stage she speaks of him as though she doesn't know him, when earlier this episode it was established she knew his younger self quite well. The whole thing was a little too convoluted.

Well yes his Mom knew his child self well, she raised him.
 

36yrs old Henry goes back in time to before his mom dies, to talk to his Mom as an adult man, ask the question so that 28 year old Henry (the one deciding to do this) and Claire can listen to it the tape. It just happened that Henry was a few years older before he got pulled back to the right point to ask his Mom that question. But I’m not surprised he didn’t forget to do it, it’s a memory embedded in his brain. And he knows that he does it, because he has memories of being 28 and listening to the tape. He just doesn’t know WHEN (in his own lifetime) he will get to ask his mom the question. 

 

36yrs old Henry may look “familiar” to his Mom, or she might recognize him from the neighborhood, but HER SON is a little boy at this point in the timeline. She’s not going to think this grown man is her son. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, meira.hand said:

Maybe to drive home the reality of what he had to endure, over and over. Just telling feels sad, showing is harrowing.

Once would be enough.  Once is harrowing enough.  I can't watch and absorb anything if I'm looking away the entire episode because I know the director is obsessed with shock value.  

[CattyK]

       After watching the first episode I wasn’t sure I really wanted to keep watching, it just didn’t grab me and seemed pretty superficial. But I really like both lead actors so I didn’t ditch it.  Now having watched ep two I’m really glad I stayed with it, it became a lot more deep and gave me a lot more sympathy for Henry and what he’s been through over the years.  
          To me the plot became an allegory of the way we experience memory and grief.  There are moments we keep going back to over and over in our mind whether we want to or not. Sometimes the horror of those moments doesn’t diminish much over time.    
          (I don’t know if the show will directly address PTSD, but the experience of being in the car when his mom was killed would be enough to give Henry PTSD. probably being jerked around in time and having to survive naked would give anyone PTSD as well.).                                                                                                          

[LadyIrony]

The car accident where his mother died has such a "Final Destination" freak show quality to it and then showing it over and over is kind of "meh" to me. Being splattered with your mothers blood is going to mess you up especially at that age though. 

I didn't like The Good Fight and forgot Rose Leslie was in it. Thinking back she seemed out of place in that show like she was there as some kind of favour. I wasn't surprised when she left it so soon. It's good to see she has gained weight anyway. 

They keep saying he has no control over when he travels to but it does seem convenient that he is able to turn up and tutor himself or ask his mother a question, perform sexual acts on himself etc It always seems to be within the same city or area too. And he does turn up in the forest behind Claire's house a lot. 

I'm happy to see it's only 6 eps I think trying to drag this out to more eps would just create really stupid storylines and possibilities. It is of course far fetched anyway which is fine but there are still limits. 

[catsitter]

If he (age 28) wants to know how many times he will go back to the scene of the accident, he could ask the older versions of himself when he meets them.

[Keywestclubkid]

20 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Showing the damn accident over and over and over and over and over and over (and over and over and over and over and over and over) (and over and over and over and over and over and over) is so damn punishing.  It's such a damn overused cliched trope.  How is that supposed to be good storytelling.  It's just punish, punish, punish the viewer.  That's all it is.

To show just a sample of how He had to relive it over and over and over and live with each fresh new memory of seeing it happen again and again and again 

Edited May 24, 2022 by Keywestclubkid

[CattyK]

2 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

They keep saying he has no control over when he travels to but it does seem convenient that he is able to turn up and tutor himself or ask his mother a question, perform sexual acts on himself etc It always seems to be within the same city or area too. And he does turn up in the forest behind Claire's house a lot. 

I'm happy to see it's only 6 eps I think trying to drag this out to more eps would just create really stupid storylines and possibilities. It is of course far fetched anyway which is fine but there are still limits. 

It is SO far fetched!  I think that’s why I decided to see it as an allegory, or almost a fairy tale.   I agree the way he seems to plan some of his time hops doesn’t jibe with the premise he can’t control it.  
just imagine how hard it would be to keep all that straight in your mind, it’d drive me crazy if the physical stress didn’t destroy me first.  
also agree it’s probably very good that it’s not more episodes long.  

Edited May 24, 2022 by CattyK

[LadyIrony]

2 hours ago, CattyK said:

It is SO far fetched!  I think that’s why I decided to see it as an allegory, or almost a fairy tale.   I agree the way he seems to plan some of his time hops doesn’t jibe with the premise he can’t control it.  
just imagine how hard it would be to keep all that straight in your mind, it’d drive me crazy if the physical stress didn’t destroy me first.  
also agree it’s probably very good that it’s not more episodes long.  

I just learned it's a 6 ep mini  series so it will keep it tight rather than stretching it out ad nauseam like most TV shows do. 

It would be confusing never knowing "when" you are, knowing where your other self is at any point. That is confusing too, it seems that there are all these versions of himself running around out there! 

[iMonrey]

Quote

36yrs old Henry may look “familiar” to his Mom, or she might recognize him from the neighborhood, but HER SON is a little boy at this point in the timeline. She’s not going to think this grown man is her son. 

You are forgetting that Henry's mother knows him as a 28-year old. He stopped his parents in the park while they were taking 1-year old Henry out in his stroller. In narration he explained to Claire that eventually his mother noticed this same guy looking at them so they eventually became acquaintances. (This wasn't their only encounter, in other words.) She would have recognized him when he stopped her outside the concert venue, he wasn't that much older, he just had shorter hair. But when she is explaining the question to her audience she speaks of him as though she just met him. Now, maybe she simply doesn't remember all the times she saw him as a 28-year old in the park, but that's a lot of hand-waving. 

Edited May 24, 2022 by iMonrey

[lovett1979]

I'm really enjoying this show. I never read the book or saw the movie so I'm a complete noob. I love Theo James and think his chemistry with Rose Leslie is great. The whole "grooming" thing is a little odd. It's not that he's inappropriate or sexual with young Claire, but, as she says, their interactions formed her erotic and romantic imagination around him, so when they were finally at appropriate ages, of course she was going to be drawn to him. It's a little icky, but I'm trying to ignore it because they are hot together, and the story is compelling.

I have a question about his scar. In the first episode, I thought it was saying that the scar was from her throwing her shoe it him? But now it seems the scar is from the car accident. BUT, in the scene at the museum, which was after the accident (this young Henry knows about the accident and tries to warn his mom) he doesn't have the scar. Can anyone help clarify?

I also don't entirely understand her timeline between their first meet and the meet at the library. They meet when she's a kid, he gives her a list of over 100 dates, she crosses them off as they happen. But when they meet at the library, she seems surprised (so it wasn't on the list?) and also reacts like she hasn't seen him in a long time. Was there a gap between the dates on the list and this meeting? Did he never travel to her during her teenage years? It's his first time meeting her, but why does it seem like such a momentous occasion to her?

Silly side note, but it's very distracting to me that this was filmed mostly in NYC but they're trying to pass it off as Chicago. I live in NYC, I know many of those locations, I actually remember seeing "no parking" signs near my office because they were filming the show. Why not just set it in NY? Because that, my friends, was not the Art Institute of Chicago. That's the Brooklyn Museum with a print of "Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte" put up on the wall.

[PurpleTentacle]

I didn't super appreciate the vehement case of the no-homos "I mean I'm not gay, but you know, you would, wouldn't you?". Not sure if a totally straight man would suck a dick that isn't attached to his own body, bud. But I guess we had to reassure the audience that our protagonist is 100% straighty straight and certainly not bi, because that might turn off some people...

Still not over the squick-factor of the grooming... and they keep bringing it up. ugh.

On 5/23/2022 at 5:38 PM, Scarlett45 said:

36yrs old Henry goes back in time to before his mom dies, to talk to his Mom as an adult man, ask the question so that 28 year old Henry (the one deciding to do this) and Claire can listen to it the tape. It just happened that Henry was a few years older before he got pulled back to the right point to ask his Mom that question. But I’m not surprised he didn’t forget to do it, it’s a memory embedded in his brain. And he knows that he does it, because he has memories of being 28 and listening to the tape. He just doesn’t know WHEN (in his own lifetime) he will get to ask his mom the question. 

But his mom also knows adult- Henry. He was talking to his parents and his infant self in the stroller. So his mom should probably recognise 36 year old Henry, even if he is a bit older than he should be. Not as her son, of course, but as a guy she knows. From what she said on stage it seemed like she didn't recognise him at all.

Edited May 25, 2022 by PurpleTentacle

[Scarlett45]

27 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

But his mom also knows adult- Henry. He was talking to his parents and his infant self in the stroller. So his mom should probably recognise 36 year old Henry, even if he is a bit older than he should be. Not as her son, of course, but as a guy she knows. From what she said on stage it seemed like she didn't recognise him at all.

She “knows him” the way you know a neighbor or someone that works in a grocery store you frequent. You may say hi to them but you don’t have intimate knowledge of them. If you ran across that person a decade later (looking older) you may or may not go “hey you worked at blah blah blah”, or you might not remember them much at all. 
 

I am not surprised that Henry’s Mom didn’t recognize the older version of the man she says hi to in the park, in a 3 min interaction before she went on stage to perform. She was being nice and was focusing on the upcoming performance. Had she sat and chatted with him for an hour she may have said “you look so much like this guy in my neighborhood.”

[PurpleTentacle]

1 minute ago, Scarlett45 said:

She “knows him” the way you know a neighbor or someone that works in a grocery store you frequent. You may say hi to them but you don’t have intimate knowledge of them. If you ran across that person a decade later (looking older) you may or may not go “hey you worked at blah blah blah”, or you might not remember them much at all. 

But he saw his mom and dad all the time. He said as much. Why wouldn't she have seen him for a whole decade? That doesn't jive with what we were told. Also he looks basically the same.

3 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I am not surprised that a woman didn’t recognize the older version of the man she says hi to in the park, in a 3 min interaction before she went on stage to perform. 

Henry specifically said that that wasn't the only interaction they had. They actually knew him at that point, which is how the conversation happened in the first place.

[Scarlett45]

9 minutes ago, PurpleTentacle said:

But he saw his mom and dad all the time. He said as much. Why wouldn't she have seen him for a whole decade? That doesn't jive with what we were told. Also he looks basically the same.

Yes he sees them- but it’s in passing. He doesn’t have an ongoing relationship with them at that point in the timeline.
 

He’s just a guy in their neighborhood they say “hi” to. These interactions mean a lot to Henry because he knows these are his parents, and his mother died right in front of him, but to his parents, he’s just a familiar face in their community. They aren’t making memories with him that would implant over the years. Also some people suck at remembering people unless they have constant consistent interaction with them. You and I may recognize the postal carrier when we run into them at Target, out of uniform, but a lot of people wouldn’t. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

But he saw his mom and dad all the time. He said as much. Why wouldn't she have seen him for a whole decade? That doesn't jive with what we were told. Also he looks basically the same.

Agreed. This wasn't a one-time encounter: in the narrative, Henry explains that his mother and father saw him so often in the park he had to introduce himself because they started to think he was stalking them or something. They eventually became acquaintances. This wasn't a one-time encounter. It is not realistic to think she wouldn't recognize him eight years later. Face it, if you knew Theo James you'd never forget that face.

Now, it did occur to me that his encounter with his mother pre-concert took place before the park scenes - from her perspective. In other words, when he met her behind the concert venue, it was earlier in her life, before she even had Henry. That might explain why she never recognized his younger self when they met in the park, as that would have been a singular incident. I'm just not sure that's what the sequence of events was supposed to be.

[Bill1978]

As with all time travel shows/movies I'm leaving my brain at the door trying to work out the loops and actions. I'm just here for the story and Theo's nudity haha.

I quite enjoyed that they spent basically a whole episode on one incident in Henry's life to reveal more about his condition and to get the romance back on track. I am really enjoying this show after 2 episodes. And I may even watch the movie after the series wraps up to compare the two - I imagine the movie is going to be zipping through the plot compared to the series.

I have to say, the encounter of the 2 16 year old Henrys was the funniest thing I have seen all week. I was not expecting that at all. I had to ring my friend who has seen the movie to ask if that moment occurs and she said 'I don't recall Eric Bana doing that to himself. I'm gonna say no, cause I would remember that'. What Henry did as a 16 year old is something a 16 year old would probably do if they could time travel. It's classic horny teen boy behaviour. 

[Haleth]

Omigosh, that was hard to watch.  And watch.  And watch...

Loved watching grown up Henry with little kid Henry.  (Maybe a comedic spin off? 😄)  Their relationship is more interesting to me than Henry and Claire's.

[Quickbeam]

I thought episode 2 was far better than the premiere, which I liked. This episode really moved the canon forward, almost more emotionally than I was ready for. Excellent TV, I can’t wait for more. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 5/25/2022 at 10:31 AM, lovett1979 said:

Silly side note, but it's very distracting to me that this was filmed mostly in NYC but they're trying to pass it off as Chicago. I live in NYC, I know many of those locations, I actually remember seeing "no parking" signs near my office because they were filming the show. Why not just set it in NY? Because that, my friends, was not the Art Institute of Chicago. That's the Brooklyn Museum with a print of "Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte" put up on the wall.

The book is set in Chicago.