S02.E03: Trust the Process

[peachmangosteen]

Airs May 19th.

[juno]

At times this was a tough watch because Deb's anger turned into bullying toward Ava and I started to get turned off pretty quickly. I didn't enjoy Ava taking it instead of leaving due to her guilt at leaving the message.

I was pleased to see it resolved over the ashes of Ava's Dad.

[aghst]

I don't think she was being malicious about it.

Especially the way she chatted up that other female comic, had Ava go get them drinks, then as soon as Ava was gone, got rid of the other comic.

Then the cracks about whether she could sell Ava's condo as a 2 bedroom if it has a big closet.  And how it's too bad Ava's father didn't live long enough to see her take everything Ava owned.

She probably thinks Ava has to endure something for betraying her confidence.

She could see Ava was frantic and really distraught over losing her father's ashes so she dropped the act, had them turn the bus around and even went dumpster diving.

If Deb didn't like Ava, she wouldn't have lasted this long.

[arc]

from ignorance, I would have assumed an NDA violation could make Ava liable for damages and maybe punitive damages on top but that still wouldn't necessarily bankrupt Ava or even cost her the condo.

Laurie Metcalf was spectacular back in Roseanne, but IMO she's playing Weed way too broadly for this show, which already has Megan Stalter as Kayla.

The plotting was clever for Ava to switch to a dumbphone, which led to her not getting Weed's text, but maybe just put a label on the tennis ball can o' Dad.

Same thing with Damien's phone bagging - would have been crazy easy to tear off a corner of each bag and write the matching number on it. In fact, that coulda been done in advance. Wasn't Damien super competent last season? But the phone thing was obviously bound to fail as soon as he said guests had to remember their own number.

Deborah's material aims strictly at her Boomer audience. I guess that's the right move, but is she playing relatively small comedy clubs who don't normally cater to that audience?

I'm not particularly invested in the wake of Marcus' breakup, but that puppy was cute.

To expand on the episode title, "Trust the Process" was about an NBA team choosing to suck because the draft system rewards bad teams with high draft picks. They hit historical levels of suck, drafted one surefire hit, a bust, and a semi-bust who completely busted last postseason. The "Process" -- consecutive seasons of just terrible basketball -- really hasn't paid off so far and probably won't... but leaving that very relevant example aside, trusting the process is a good life lesson IMO.

[MicheleinPhilly]

3 hours ago, arc said:

To expand on the episode title, "Trust the Process" was about an NBA team choosing to suck because the draft system rewards bad teams with high draft picks. They hit historical levels of suck, drafted one surefire hit, a bust, and a semi-bust who completely busted last postseason. The "Process" -- consecutive seasons of just terrible basketball -- really hasn't paid off so far and probably won't... but leaving that very relevant example aside, trusting the process is a good life lesson IMO.

YES. Sadly, I can attest to all of this. 😐

[Blakeston]

9 hours ago, aghst said:

I don't think she was being malicious about it.

Especially the way she chatted up that other female comic, had Ava go get them drinks, then as soon as Ava was gone, got rid of the other comic.

Isn't that a sign of malice? Deb didn't give a crap about that comedian, and was just doing whatever she could to degrade Ava and make her feel jealous.

[aghst]

I took it as Deb messing with Ava more than trying to be hurtful.

The thing about selling her condo was pure trolling.

And as we saw, when Ava really became distraught, she dropped the mean girl game to help her retrieve the ashes.

[Blakeston]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

I took it as Deb messing with Ava more than trying to be hurtful.

The thing about selling her condo was pure trolling.

And as we saw, when Ava really became distraught, she dropped the mean girl game to help her retrieve the ashes.

Deb was messing with her, in a mean way. She wasn't laughing with Ava; she was deliberately demeaning her.

No one is saying that Deb is a complete monster, but I think it's valid to call her behavior through the first 2/3 of the episode bullying. Deb is blatantly a bully a lot of the time, even if she also shows kindness at other times.

[aghst]

Just now, Blakeston said:

Deb was messing with her, in a mean way. She wasn't laughing with Ava; she was deliberately demeaning her.

No one is saying that Deb is a complete monster, but I think it's valid to call her behavior through the first 2/3 of the episode bullying. Deb is blatantly a bully a lot of the time, even if she also shows kindness at other times.

Sure but if she really wanted to lean into being Cruella, she could have just laughed at her when Ava was crying or on the verge of crying after Weed told her they're not turning back.

I think also Ava senses that even when Deb was messing with her, Deb didn't despise her for the email or any other reason.

Or she would have just quit if she thought there was no way they were going to re-establish some working relationship at least where Deb respects Ava for her comic instincts.

 

[Blakeston]

32 minutes ago, aghst said:

Sure but if she really wanted to lean into being Cruella, she could have just laughed at her when Ava was crying or on the verge of crying after Weed told her they're not turning back.

I think also Ava senses that even when Deb was messing with her, Deb didn't despise her for the email or any other reason.

Or she would have just quit if she thought there was no way they were going to re-establish some working relationship at least where Deb respects Ava for her comic instincts.

No one said she's Cruella.

Deb wasn't out to completely destroy Ava, but she was still bullying and antagonizing her.

Edited May 20, 2022 by Blakeston

[juno]

Ava had done something wrong, admitted it and apologized for it. She even made a list of amends that she was going to complete to make up for her error.

Deb then decided to punish her and proceeded to sue her, give her the silent treatment, tell her to move furniture and on and on.

I thought that Ava would quit move back, Deb would suck and there would be a reconciliation. I was upset because even after being sued Ava decided to stay on because she deserved to be punished for her crime.

I didn't think any of it was a joke, I saw an angry abusive boss abusing her employee and her employee taking it thinking she deserved it.

I would have out of there pretty quick even before the "just joking". Not fun watching a show like this even when at the end she is really a good person.

[aghst]

I just don't see anger or abuse.

Deb holding up her iPad with photos of Ava's condo doesn't come across as an angry act.  More like teasing and trolling that she's going to get the condo in the suit and sell it.

Or Ava's bed on the bus being narrow and her only getting a hook for her stuff because they needed to reserve space for her LED bed or something was played for comic effect.  Ava seemed to sleep well.

Then she busy that big cabinet to cut off more space by her bed.

Some people like Maher accuse people of Ava's generation for being too sensitive and not being able to take a joke.

Well Ava took most of these humiliations in stride.  Honestly think she wouldn't have put up with it if she thought Deb was being abusive.

 

 

[qtpye]

It was a pleasure to see Jean Smart and Laurie M together. What amazing comedic actresses.

Marcus is sweet but I do not care about his love life.

That puppy was so cute!

Edited May 21, 2022 by qtpye

[ProudMary]

Deb holds all the power in this relationship. Her actions in this episode are abusive. That she changes her tune and helps when Ava justifiably loses it upon discovering that Weed threw away her father's ashes, doesn't negate her earlier abusive behavior.

On the other hand, Deb has every right to enforce the terms of the NDA by filing suit against Ava and would have been within her rights to fire her. Deb chose not to do that because she benefits from Ava's talent. It doesn't give her the right to bully the employee she continues to employ.

[laprin]

Deb created a hostile workplace. Ava would be within her rights to file a countersuit. 

[Irlandesa]

23 minutes ago, laprin said:

Deb created a hostile workplace. Ava would be within her rights to file a countersuit. 

No she wouldn't.  A hostile work place in employment law has a specific meaning. In employment law, hostile would mean being targeted for being a member of a protected class based on religion, gender, race, sexuality, age...etc.  Small businesses of under 15 employees also enjoy many protections from these laws, so even if it were the case, it may not apply to Deborah.

A boss simply displaying hostility to an employee, which is the case here, isn't something an employee can sue over.

Edited May 23, 2022 by Irlandesa

[laprin]

On 5/23/2022 at 7:15 PM, Irlandesa said:

No she wouldn't.  A hostile work place in employment law has a specific meaning. In employment law, hostile would mean being targeted for being a member of a protected class based on religion, gender, race, sexuality, age...etc.  Small businesses of under 15 employees also enjoy many protections from these laws, so even if it were the case, it may not apply to Deborah.

A boss simply displaying hostility to an employee, which is the case here, isn't something an employee can sue over.

Ava is a female member of LGBTQ. Isn’t that two protected classes? You mean your boss can put you in physically dangerous conditions, such as a huge unwieldily dresser blocking part access to your sleeping quarters, and there is no recourse? 

[Irlandesa]

25 minutes ago, laprin said:

Ava is a female member of LGBTQ. Isn’t that two protected classes? You mean your boss can put you in physically dangerous conditions, such as a huge unwieldily dresser blocking part access to your sleeping quarters, and there is no recourse? 

Yes she is a member of those communities.  I believe she's Jewish too.  But what she is not is being targeted for any of her identities and it's the latter which would make it illegal.

If Ava were to be injured by the dresser, she could probably sue.  But having it just be there?  Probably not.

[aghst]

Been rewatching season 1 a bit.

Ava of course didn’t want to work for Deb.  So they are both at eacH others throats in tHE pilot.

then after she was hired, they still clash And Ava is openly snarky.

quite a contrast from Ava Being contrite so far.

[Cheezwiz]

I'm enjoying the 2nd season just as much as the first. The dynamic between the two actresses is great, (Deb can be bullying toward Ava, but I think Ava understands that much of it is a put-on ant that she got herself into the situation). Deborah is a decent person when the chips are down.

What an unexpected treat to see Laurie Metcalfe pop up! I didn't recognize her at first!

Josephina looked very pretty getting ready for her date - good for her. I also don't really care about Marcus's love life either, but DAMN that little puppy was cute! GIMME!!!

[shrewd.buddha]

I never found the American version of The Office funny.  The BBC version was much easier to take - it was in smaller doses and it was easier to laugh at those crazy British people. The American version was too much like a sad reality - people trapped in an office, suffering the whims of an incompetent boss. 

For me, I don't see a sad reality between Deborah and Ava on this show.  It could be for people who are personal assistants or work in similar situations.
Deb and Ava are in the entertainment industry - one fighting to hang on and one struggling to get started. 
At this point they are beyond employer/employee - they are in a relationship.  Ava knows Deborah's issues and sympathizes with them, mostly. Deborah has learned a lot about Ava and has a soft spot for her -- she even spoke at Ava's father's funeral. 
They are on a journey together, like The Odd Couple.  And though a lot of the humor can be uncomfortable, I am enjoying it -- much more than the canned-laughter so-called comedies on broadcast television (what's left of it, anyways). 

And as others have pointed out: Deborah is business savvy.  Appearing to be litigious could be a good move to scare off people thinking about using the email. Others would consider the legal risks and consequences more carefully.  This would be - as Deborah said to Ava - a good learning experience.  But of course she wouldn't tell that to Ava at first. 

Edited June 15, 2022 by shrewd.buddha
grammar

[Black Knight]

On 5/23/2022 at 7:15 PM, Irlandesa said:

A boss simply displaying hostility to an employee, which is the case here, isn't something an employee can sue over.

For Deborah's actions in this episode, true.

However, IRL Ava would have an ace in her pocket: Deborah slapped her in S1. That's a complete no-no, Ava would be well within her rights to countersue or file a police report, and any competent attorney would easily get Deborah's legal team to drop the lawsuit against Ava for violating the NDA in exchange for letting the slap go. Of course since Ava has no money to hire a competent attorney, it's not surprising Deborah is continuing with the lawsuit.