S06.E03: Temperance

[Athena]

Quote

Fergus worries about his new son's quality of life when the baby is bullied by superstitious Protestants; Claire performs surgery on Tom's hand.

Reminder: The is the book talk thread. This may include spoilers for ALL the books. If you wish to remain unspoiled for any of the books, please leave now and head to the No Book Talk episode thread.

[GHScorpiosRule]

UGH. Please, no romance between Malva and Wee Ian!!!!!

I can see the seeds for when Malva will accuse Jaime.

And that scene where Christie tells Claire she has too much hair?!

The best scenes were of Roger saving Henri- Christian, Jamie, with the hot poker when those twerps who put Henri in the water, and the scene with Fergus and Jamie. Oh! And Rollo! Barking!

Otherwise boring episode.

[nodorothyparker]

Solid enough middle of a shortened season episode that sets up a lot of what happens next. I do sort of remember the book suggesting that Ian seemed attracted to Malva and thought maybe she was leaning that way too but nothing came of it before everything went to hell.

Tom Christie remains the most multi-layered nonhero character Diana Gabaldon ever managed to pull off even if he never becomes any more likable. The show did a nice job of laying out the frontier Madonna-Whore fixation Tom develops for Claire, where it's obvious in their scenes together that he's intrigued by her intellect and somewhat attracted to her against his better judgment but is also actively repulsed by her refusal to adhere to his ideals of a proper woman. I do vaguely remember from my college lit class that Tom Jones was a fairly bawdy novel and one scholars love to trot out to disabuse people of the notion that everyone was reading chaste stories and collections of sermons (ahem, Jane Austen) before modern supposedly godless times. So it's not really surprising at all that Tom Christie would be "disappointed" in Claire for liking it and thus used those feelings as the pretext he needed to beat his kid some more once his hand healed up enough to do it. 

Sure, some of it is cliche but I think they did the best they could with the Fergus is a drunk and wants to kill himself story. Both book and show seem to forget for long periods of time that Fergus was a child prostitute and  and had a pretty rough life before Jamie scooped him up and "adopted" him the way you would a stray dog. It was all tied together fairly well and as always, Lauren Lyle is just an incredible find for a character I never had any real strong feelings about one way or the other on the page.

It's never not going to be weird to me that the show went to all the trouble to insert Murtagh into the Ardsmuir story and now that he's gone they've seemingly just reverted to the book version of it with nary a mention that he was there.

[Cdh20]

I think Ian did sleep with Malva in the book.

[Haleth]

Oh, Claire. Tom Jones?  You really thought that was a good idea?  You couldn’t foresee how Tom Christie would react?

Lauren Lyle wins the episode once again. 

[jqdeco]

Malva slept around in the book to cover up her relationship with her brother, so it will be interesting to see if she does the same on the show.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I think Ian did sleep with Malva in the book.

🤢

[SassAndSnacks]

13 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I think Ian did sleep with Malva in the book.

He did.  He was panicked when Malva accused Jamie of fathering her child, because even though he knew Jamie didn't do it, he (Ian) was worried that the baby would look like Jamie anyway because Ian did sleep with her and could have fathered her child.  

Malva slept with a whole lot of people in the book.  

22 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The best scenes were of Roger saving Henri- Christian, Jamie, with the hot poker when those twerps who put Henri in the water, and the scene with Fergus and Jamie. Oh! And Rollo! Barking!

Otherwise boring episode.

Yes to all of these things.

Richard Rankin is turning it on this season, and I think so much of that has to do with better writing of his storyline.  And of course, Lauren Lyle is a gem.  The rest of this one, meh.  I read that DG said this was one of her favorite episodes of the season, so I had high hopes, but I found myself watching the clock at points.  Interestingly, you can see Malva slowly turning up the dial on her maliciousness and crazy, so I thought that was well played.

I know nothing of the production aspects of tv shows, particularly the technical components.  This season looks different to me, like it was shot with a different type of camera.  I don't know how to explain it, but it looks more like live tv, like a reality show or a soap, than what I notice in other tv shows.  It's a little distracting.  Is it just my new glasses??

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Yes to all of these things.

So glad I'm not the only one who felt this way. And ye kent wot I did? I went back tae season one and re-watched the first three episodes last night! Aye, I did!

BLECH!BLECH!BLECH! tae all things Malva.

[Linderhill]

I was suddenly struck by the absence of the rest of Fergus and Marsali's children.  I'm pretty sure there were more than just Germain and a daughter (who we haven't seen in a while) by the time Henri-Christian's birth.  Its been so long since I read the book (it isn't one of my favorites, I even forgot that Fergus tried to kill himself) but I distinctly remember more of the children being around.

I too am enjoying Roger's character this season.  I always loved the character and didn't care much about Bri until they went back thru the stones.

[GHScorpiosRule]

10 minutes ago, Linderhill said:

I was suddenly struck by the absence of the rest of Fergus and Marsali's children.  I'm pretty sure there were more than just Germain and a daughter (who we haven't seen in a while) by the time Henri-Christian's birth.  Its been so long since I read the book (it isn't one of my favorites, I even forgot that Fergus tried to kill himself) but I distinctly remember more of the children being around.

I too am enjoying Roger's character this season.  I always loved the character and didn't care much about Bri until they went back thru the stones.

The children are Germain, Joan (after her sister), Felicity, and Henri-Christian. And I only know this because of the previouslies before the season premiered!😄😄😄😄

[Linderhill]

49 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

The children are Germain, Joan (after her sister), Felicity, and Henri-Christian. And I only know this because of the previouslies before the season premiered!😄😄😄😄

thanks!  I knew there were more out there!  After a while in the books the kids all blend in together.

[Cdh20]

13 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

He did.  He was panicked when Malva accused Jamie of fathering her child, because even though he knew Jamie didn't do it, he (Ian) was worried that the baby would look like Jamie anyway because Ian did sleep with her and could have fathered her child.  

Malva slept with a whole lot of people in the book.  

Yes to all of these things.

Richard Rankin is turning it on this season, and I think so much of that has to do with better writing of his storyline.  And of course, Lauren Lyle is a gem.  The rest of this one, meh.  I read that DG said this was one of her favorite episodes of the season, so I had high hopes, but I found myself watching the clock at points.  Interestingly, you can see Malva slowly turning up the dial on her maliciousness and crazy, so I thought that was well played.

I know nothing of the production aspects of tv shows, particularly the technical components.  This season looks different to me, like it was shot with a different type of camera.  I don't know how to explain it, but it looks more like live tv, like a reality show or a soap, than what I notice in other tv shows.  It's a little distracting.  Is it just my new glasses??

Regarding the filming- maybe the wider angles had something to do with Covid restrictions? 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

1 hour ago, Linderhill said:

thanks!  I knew there were more out there!  After a while in the books the kids all blend in together.

The three of them were all playing outside the front door in the previous episode.

[Scarlett45]

On 3/21/2022 at 8:27 PM, Linderhill said:

I was suddenly struck by the absence of the rest of Fergus and Marsali's children.  I'm pretty sure there were more than just Germain and a daughter (who we haven't seen in a while) by the time Henri-Christian's birth.  Its been so long since I read the book (it isn't one of my favorites, I even forgot that Fergus tried to kill himself) but I distinctly remember more of the children being around.

I too am enjoying Roger's character this season.  I always loved the character and didn't care much about Bri until they went back thru the stones.

I think the other children might not be around because of 1. Covid restrictions, and 2. Germain is the only one really old enough have lines, no need to pay child actors, and their support people (caregivers etc) to stand in a scene if its not necessary. 

 

I did like Marsali a lot in this episode. Marsali is a fierce woman. She loves Fergus, but when she said "I will have a whole man, nor none at all." I had NO DOUBT she meant every word of it. The actress did a lot with the material, you could see the pain and conflict in her face. 

I also liked Jaime's punishment for the children, I thought it was age appropriate (in Germaine's defense all of those boys were WAY bigger than them, they looked 8-10 and he's only about 5) but Jaime told Germain how it was to be, he needed to protect his little brother, but without shaming him too much. (he is only 5)

Fergus' emotional struggles were very understandable in this episode. Fergus was an able bodied male child and was sold into sexual slavery by his mother, I could only imagine how frightened he is of the type of life a child with a disability such as dwarfism would have in this society. Given everything he had been through in his own life, I could see how raising children would bring that all back up again, and I am so glad Jame stopped him from harming himself.

I am waiting for Malva to slit Tom's throat in his sleep. One day she is going to snap over these senseless whippings. Her brother crying outside was a clear sign that this is a regular thing, he beats her for no reason. "Educated man" he is.......

[Noneofyourbusiness]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I did like Marsali a lot in this episode. Marsali is a fierce woman. She loves Fergus, but when she said "I will have a whole man, nor none at all." I had NO DOUBT she meant every word of it. The actress did a lot with the material, you could see the pain and conflict in her face.

And it was a nice callback to when she said the same thing to Murtagh in Season 4.

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Fergus was an able bodied male child and was sold into sexual slavery by his mother,

It's my understanding Fergus was born to one of the prostitutes at the brothel; he knows not which one or whether she's still alive.

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Fergus was an able bodied male child and was sold into sexual slavery by his mother,

29 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

It's my understanding Fergus was born to one of the prostitutes at the brothel; he knows not which one or whether she's still alive.

No, he wasn't sold into sexual slavery. He grew up in a brothel and was a pick pocket. It was that RapingMurderingRatbastard Black Jack Randall raping Fergus, that had Jamie break his promise to Claire, in both the show and buik. 

Even going back to Season three, when Jamie learns about Fergus and Marsali, they talk about his past as a pick pocket, his other women. No mention of "did ye tell her of yer days as a prostitute?" or words to that effect. And Fergus told Jamie he told Marsali everything, and I assume that includes his own rape by that rat bastards.

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by GHScorpiosRule

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

And it was a nice callback to when she said the same thing to Murtagh in Season 4.

It's my understanding Fergus was born to one of the prostitutes at the brothel; he knows not which one or whether she's still alive.

 

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

No, he wasn't sold into sexual slavery. He grew up in a brothel and was a pick pocket. It was that RapingMurderingRatbastard Black Jack Randall raping Fergus, that had Jamie break his promise to Claire, in both the show and buik. 

Even going back to Season three, when Jamie learns about Fergus and Marsali, they talk about his past as a pick pocket, his other women. No mention of "did ye tell her of yer days as a prostitute?" or words to that effect. And Fergus told Jamie he told Marsali everything, and I assume that includes his own rape by that rat bastards.

 

Oh thank you, I misremembered. I remembered that he grew up in the brothel, I thought his mother sold him there. I appreciate the update!

[nodorothyparker]

Book Fergus was a sometime child prostitute. It's an ongoing minor plot in the latter books that he grew up in the brothel as one of the prostitutes there was his mother. (He never knew which one and another so far book only character is fairly insistent that she was a runaway from a noble family, making him a long lost someone.) Yeah, he was a pickpocket and did a lot of random odd jobs before hooking up with Jamie, but in his talk with Claire after Henri Christian's birth, the show omitted his line about how he had had sex for money as needed and "thought nothing of it, save when it hurt" but can't bear the idea of that for one of his own children. I've surmised the show just didn't want to delve into the fairly sordid reality that child prostitution was a thing at the time.

[Cdh20]

42 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Book Fergus was a sometime child prostitute. It's an ongoing minor plot in the latter books that he grew up in the brothel as one of the prostitutes there was his mother. (He never knew which one and another so far book only character is fairly insistent that she was a runaway from a noble family, making him a long lost someone.) Yeah, he was a pickpocket and did a lot of random odd jobs before hooking up with Jamie, but in his talk with Claire after Henri Christian's birth, the show omitted his line about how he had had sex for money as needed and "thought nothing of it, save when it hurt" but can't bear the idea of that for one of his own children. I've surmised the show just didn't want to delve into the fairly sordid reality that child prostitution was a thing at the time.

Yes, there has been no indication that show Fergus was a child prostitute, thank heavens! 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Unless someone has more tech savvy experience than me and can find it, Inside the Episode isn’t available for “Temperance” but it is for episodes 1, 2, and 4. I uploaded for 2 and 4 in their respective threads.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just published!!!

Me at hearing what Tom and Malva are really like:🤢🤢😒😒🙄🙄

 

[WatchrTina]

On 3/20/2022 at 8:12 PM, Haleth said:

Oh, Claire. Tom Jones?  You really thought that was a good idea?  You couldn’t foresee how Tom Christie would react?

This!  A thousand times this!  I mean of all the novels she could have shared she gives him one of the most infamously bawdy novels of the age?  Then again, I understand that Jamie's library is necessarily limited (books were sore expensive ye ken) so there weren't that many options she could have offered.  And Tom Jones was a huge hit so that kind of bawdy humor is, perhaps, exactly what Tom expected from a novel.  (Maybe that's why novels in this era have such a bad reputation among "godly" folk.)

Interestingly, one of the things that rang a bit false to me was when Tom said he'd finished the book in a few days.  On the one hand, as a binge reader myself, I understand the compulsion to gobble down a book ("just one more chapter and then I really have to go to bed.")  But in a situation where books are so precious and rare I thought Tom would read it slowly to savor it.  Perhaps that is what he had in mind but then he just could not stop reading . . . which may have caused him some consternation given what that suggests about his own self-control.  He's a complex guy, is our Tom Christie.

 

On 3/20/2022 at 8:12 PM, Haleth said:

Lauren Lyle wins the episode once again. 

That she does.  Marsali (and Lauren Lyle's portrayal of her) is one of the great delights of this part of the series.  Who'da thunk that the offspring of that wee besom Laoghaire MacKenzie would emerge as such a stand-out, beloved character?