S04.E03: Everything Is Bellmore

[qtpye]

On 2/28/2022 at 11:14 AM, pasdetrois said:

The lazy reliance on endless profanity instead of great dialogue annoys me. And the show beats us over the head with each idea (Midge bumping into her bedroom furniture). Love him, but too much Shaloub.

Why is Rose wearing so many "pregnancy" jackets and blouses? Those big roomy things?

The actress who plays Mei is terrible - so uncomfortable with her dialogue and moving her body around the sets.

I do laugh at Shirley's foghorn rasping out in so many scenes.

I am enjoying Susie's arc this season.

Mrs. Maisal still my least favorite character.

 

On 2/28/2022 at 3:06 PM, desertflower said:

Thank you, I agree. I don’t consider myself an uppity person and I don’t faint at the sound of the f word, but they overuse it so much on this show and it’s so incredibly unnecessary. These people are masters at writing fast paced, witty dialogue, and they absolutely do not need to drown it all out with endless f bombs. Ok, gonna go yell at some kids to get off my lawn now. 
PS: I can’t look away when Lenny is onscreen. He’s magic. 

At least, this is generally a mild show. Even the strippers were not so bad but definitely not kid-friendly.

Many of the female-centric shows I watch feel like they have to ape Lena Dunham's Girls. All the characters are always talking about sexual things in the most vulgar way and cunnilingus is shown in almost every episode.

Again, I am no prude but it seems like they are just doing it to be edgy and we are supposed to cheer them because of "girl power"?

Even Samantha from Sex in the City would tell them to tone it down.

I feel bad that the actor died but Susie hijacking another person's funeral is an asshole move.

Speaking of assholes, I almost don't believe the musical was that terrible and Abe just wanted to sabotage Buzz's career.

He pretends to feel bad about it but he probably got off on having enough power to shut down a show.

 

[Nicola]

Quote

 

Many of the female-centric shows I watch feel like they have to ape Lena Dunham's Girls. All the characters are always talking about sexual things in the most vulgar way and cunnilingus is shown in almost every episode.

Again, I am no prude but it seems like they are just doing it to be edgy and we are supposed to cheer them because of "girl power"?

 

I've noticed this a LOT. It's like women have to act like stereotypically raunchy men to make a feminist statement, which I don't.... understand. I guess it's to show that women can do anything men can do, but I feel like it's just reinforcing expected gender roles. It's a shame because I feel like a lot of otherwise talented funny women are falling back on just yelling the c-word as a punchline. Lazy.

[Clanstarling]

15 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I too was Midge's kids' age at the time; my family was also of similar cultural background to the Maisels.
But I recall love/affection being shown mostly through gifts, money, opportunities, and affirmations of my esteem in the world, rather than by terms of endearment or physical demonstrations.
Maybe that's why there is a Mr. Clanstarling in your nest, but Mr. shapeshifter flew the coop 30 years ago and has not been replaced. 
But if my Dad made a bad financial decision on par with Abe's, Dad would have done whatever was necessary to provide financially–—when we were kids, at least; after college we were on our own.
Both Abe and my father would have grown up during The Great Depression, but Abe's family was seemingly unscathed, which might explain why Abe doesn't seem to have a realization of how easily a family can fall from middle class.
So I think the different attitudes we see in this show towards parenting are as much a reflection of how many generations the parents are removed from the Immigration Experience as they reflect the parents being from a particular decade–—if that makes sense?

My father grew up dirt poor - his family even sharecropped for awhile (they were white, so they still had the privilege of not being killed without consequences). My mother also grew up dirt poor in a different country. It affected them differently.  Gifts and money weren't part of their demonstrations of affection. But it was not a happy home.  I rebuilt my nest from lessons learned.

In any case, I was commenting (not very clearly) to the tendency we all have to make blanket statements about life in different eras.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Clanstarling

[janie jones]

On 2/28/2022 at 12:06 PM, desertflower said:

Thank you, I agree. I don’t consider myself an uppity person and I don’t faint at the sound of the f word, but they overuse it so much on this show and it’s so incredibly unnecessary. These people are masters at writing fast paced, witty dialogue, and they absolutely do not need to drown it all out with endless f bombs. Ok, gonna go yell at some kids to get off my lawn now.

In my everyday life when interacting with my friends, I swear about as much as Midge and Susie do, so it doesn't bother me. But: 1) I've been told I swear a lot, so I realize it isn't normal; and 2) I have the decency to not swear in front of a room full of strangers at a funeral. That's the thing that bothers me about the swearing -- they can't pick an appropriate time and place.

[Clanstarling]

37 minutes ago, janie jones said:

In my everyday life when interacting with my friends, I swear about as much as Midge and Susie do, so it doesn't bother me. But: 1) I've been told I swear a lot, so I realize it isn't normal; and 2) I have the decency to not swear in front of a room full of strangers at a funeral. That's the thing that bothers me about the swearing -- they can't pick an appropriate time and place.

I always say I'm a potty mouth, raised by potty mouths, and raised potty mouths (though to be fair I stopped the potty mouth when they were little and found my 18 month old staring at a chicken pox blister on her hand and saying "sheet!") So language doesn't bother me much (and I too know when to use it and when not).

I'd forgive Suzie that moment, however. She was struck by guilt, anger, and sorrow - a powerful mix, and had obviously been raised without knowing any "social" conventions. She was not in her right mind - just like many people when we are grieving. All that spilled out from deep in her soul, which is why I found it so moving, and found the language so very much Suzie.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Clanstarling

[LadyRose]

On 2/27/2022 at 12:14 AM, gorgy said:

How old is Midge and Joel's son supposed to be? Like I get child actors play younger, but he seems awfully big for his age. I assume he's like six or seven in the show, but he could be ten in real life.

The show starts in the fall of 1958. In her first, drunken "set" at the Gaslight, Midge says that Joel is her "husband of four years," so they got married in 1954. Judging from the summery bright green bridesmaid's dresses at the wedding, it was probably in June or July. Ethan was probably born the following year, in 1955. In S. 4, E 1, Midge says Ethan's birthday is in November. Season 4 starts in 1960. Ethan would be 4 , almost 5, which tracks with him starting school. 

I just rewatched a couple of relevant episodes (S1, E 7 and S2, E8).

In the first, Midge and Imogene are putting together treat bags for Ethan's birthday party. Imogene gushes about she can't believe their babies are turning four. That doesn't make sense. If he was born in 1955, he should be turning 3. If he's turning 4 in 1958, that would mean he was born in November of 1954, which means midge would have been at least 4 months pregnant at her wedding...which she was not. 

In S2,E8, it's Yom Kippur 1959, and the grownups are scolding Midge and Joel for giving Ethan candy in temple. "But he's four!" They both protest. Yom Kippur is in September or October. If Ethan's birthday is in November, and he was born in 1955, he would still be three. I call continuity error. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by LadyRose
To add more information.

[shapeshifter]

On 3/3/2022 at 5:57 PM, qtpye said:

Speaking of assholes, I almost don't believe the musical was that terrible and Abe just wanted to sabotage Buzz's career.

Interesting and quite plausible take on Abe’s motives that hadn’t crossed my mind. If the show was taking more time with all of the B plots, we might know for sure. Maybe Abe is in the closet to himself and all his assholery is just the usual misdirection coverup? That could be a heck of a season 5 reveal.

 

About Susie hijacking the funeral:   
I’m fanwanking that her inappropriate actions were nevertheless the best part of that staid family’s funeral—–that Susie’s sincerely-if-profanely voiced feelings allowed the family to truly know grief in a way they had never before permitted themselves to express.

 

[smartymarty]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:21 PM, shapeshifter said:

Speaking of assholes, I almost don't believe the musical was that terrible and Abe just wanted to sabotage Buzz's career.

I don't think so. He originally just wrote "Your mother would like it." He didn't want to speak the truth. But even before the opening, they all were saying it only had one song -- seems the Broadway version had a few more, but Abe mentioned that the "one song" was reprised 5 times. So I think the musical was bad.

My problem was that Abe couldn't possibly be the only reviewer that night. Others must have panned it too. Also, normally a show would be in previews, giving the producers time to make corrections based on early reviews. (Or did they say it had played in towns outside NYC already? I can't remember.)

[kwnyc]

2 hours ago, smartymarty said:

My problem was that Abe couldn't possibly be the only reviewer that night.

True. And the Village Voice was not the make-or-break review. In 1960, that would have been the Times, The Herald-Tribune, and a few others, including The New Yorker. But it sounds like Abe was right...it wasn't very good. It's just that he's such a vicious person, his review was no doubt particularly nasty.

[lavenderblue]

Between this and Gilmore Girls, the Palladinos really love the theme of "a main character is prodded to write honest review, goes overboard in vitriol, must face confrontation from target."

Too many scenes here felt 17 hours long. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by lavenderblue

[maddie965]

After reading some posts here, I was cautiously optimistic. Well, I hated it. When did the show become a parody of itself? Did I hallucinate it being good at some point?

Hated the funeral scene. If Susie crashed the funeral of someone I knew, I would kick her out myself. So disrespectful.

Luke is always the best part of any episode he's in, but not even him could save this.  Too short. Too silly.

 

 

 

[Red Fields]

Oy, what is with the height of Rose’s hats? They seem to be getting taller with each episode!

[30 Helens]

The best part of this episode was the return of Lenny. After a very slow start, maybe this season is finally picking up.

I don’t remember much about the Jacky character, so I can’t say I was all that moved by the funeral. Although I think it was nice that the Palladinos paid tribute to their longtime collaborator and friend. The language did not bother me one fucking bit.

For most of the episode, I was just mesmerized by the hats. All the truly hideous, what-were-they-thinking, ridiculous hats. I usually like the fashion on this show, but this felt like the costume designer was deliberately pushing the boundaries of bad taste. Or maybe it was just to distract from an otherwise unremarkable episode.

Hoping for more Lenny next episode. And better hats.

[lucindabelle]

Speaking as someone who is a professional critic and has even written for the Voice, there is no way Abe would have been assigned to that show in the first place. He should have recused himself and if he didn’t know he should, the editor as soon as he found out he knew the playwright personally (not as In know to say hello to butnsocialized with) would not allow him to write about it at ALL.

Also you never get more than a pair of press tickets on Broadway. But I’ll handwave that away- although why they needed to be in that ENORMOUS house I don’t understand (looked like the Palace). 
 

if Abe had known him only as “someone we saw up at the Catskills” then fine but his own daughter once performing in it?  Very inappropriate.

i also don’t buy that a man as smart as Abe wouldn’t know how to write a think piece without saying “it’s like sitting in Hell.” 
 

bur NOBODY used the word dramaturg in 1960 who wasn’t German. The word used would have been script doctor. People started talking about dramaturgy in the 80s. I know I was h th err. The LMDA (literary managers and dramaturgy of the americas) began I believe In 1987.

im so glad the funeral scene didn’t have a punchline like “they weren’t his medals”‘or something stupid like that. It was touching. But agree that the dearth of mourners if he was active in the church was not realistic. 
 

WWII vets were not that old in 1960. (40s mostly, it’s not so long after the war). I’m sure the writers are gonna forget this if darla ever shows up, the way the Americans forgot Holocaust survivors in 1983 were not in their 80s, but 70s..

[Moose135]

A little late to the party, we're just catching up on the latest season...

On 3/14/2022 at 9:22 AM, smartymarty said:

My problem was that Abe couldn't possibly be the only reviewer that night. Others must have panned it too.

On 3/14/2022 at 11:58 AM, kwnyc said:

True. And the Village Voice was not the make-or-break review. In 1960, that would have been the Times, The Herald-Tribune, and a few others, including The New Yorker.

But none of those other reviewers were members of the congregation. That is why the Rabbi kept coming back to 'loyalty' and 'taking care of your own'. I suspect a lot of them thought it wasn't a very good show, either in the Catskills or on Broadway, but to have one of their own members pan it so harshly was seen as a betrayal.