The Flash (2023)

[revbfc]

Did I enjoy the movie?

Yes.

Was it better than Black Adam?

Yes.

Could I watch it without thinking about how much I dislike Ezra Miller as a person?

No.

Everything I liked about this movie was too little, too late, and put a spotlight on DC’s cinematic failures.

 

[thuganomics85]

"Yeah, I met The Flash!  Like everyone else who's ever met him, I thought he was an unbearable D-Bag!" - Christopher "Peacemaker" Smith.

 

Skipped opening weekend and waited to watch this earlier today, which really shows how indifferent I've become to the DCEU as a whole (could be worse, I guess.  Still haven't gotten around to Shazam 2 yet.)  And it went pretty much the way I figured it would.  It really wasn't horrible and even enjoyable and fun at times, but all of the early hype and claims about being being one of the best comic movies ever just did it such a huge disservice.  It just made flaws that might have been more forgivable be more noticeable and there was no way this wasn't going to end as a crushing disappointed on some levels.

I mean, the story was fine enough, but like with most of this franchise, I just struggled to really connect with it in a way I was suppose since I still feel like I barely know this Barry and the rest of the characters, so it was hard to get invested in the outcome and eventual tragedy of having to "let his mom go."  Say what you will about the many, many, many flaws of the CW show, it at least did something to make me care for this same exact storyline.  It just really gave off a vibe of a film that just assumes everyone is already knowledgeable of the comics and his story, and didn't really need to build up to it.  And, hey, it probably does work on the big fans, but as someone who is more casual, it just left me cold.

As for the multiverse stuff, wow, talk about a disappointment.  Besides Keaton's Batman, new Supergirl, and a (fun) surprise at the very end, all of the big cameos were either CGI recreations of previous variations by actors long since dead, or CGI creations of ideas that only the most rabid fans would know (Nicolas Cage as Superman fighting a giant spider robot?  Well, I guess that made Kevin Smith happy...)  You telling me they have two other perfectly good; hell, better; Flashes with both Grant Gustin and John Wesley Shipp still around and we couldn't even get a mere cameo?  Oh, whatever!

Once thing that did live up to the hype was that the CGI was truly horrid.  Yikes!  The only bigger pile of shit then all of that was Andy Muschietti's claim that it was all on purpose.  Sure, buddy!  Keep telling yourself that!

Acting wise, I know separating "art from artist" is a thing and I try to go by that, but even if I didn't know all about the crazy shit Ezra Miller did, their performance was fine, but once again, not great enough to make me think they were worth all of this hassle.  If anything, it felt like they were just cribbing from the various actors who have played Spider-Man in the past.  Just another overhyped part of the film.

As for the rest, Michael Keaton was his normal reliable self, even if I wasn't as fanatical about his take on Batman as others (still good though.)  Sasha Callie did what she could, but I honestly thought she wasn't really given enough to do.  I came in with the impression that she was suppose to be giving a breakthrough performance somewhat, but the material wasn't there.  I wonder if she's kind of a victim of the Ezra situation, by the studio trying to make her feel more like a co-star in the press so they could focus less on Ezra, even though she really is just a supporting role.  Meanwhile, Michael Shannon was completely phoning it in and I don't blame him, honestly.  Surprisingly, I thought the best was Ben Affleck in his scenes and it makes me wonder once again if he could have been an excellent Batman if he wasn't stuck in this particular universe/franchise.

I won't lie and say I'm through, because I'll definitely catch Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 to see this through (and I swear I'll get around to Shazam 2!), but I really do hope the reset happens and they put time and effort into it, because outside of a few gems (first Wonder Woman, James Gunn's Suicide Squad), the DCEU has kind of been a bust.  Ironically, my trust in them is so low that I'm actually wondering if Batgirl really was as bad as they claimed it was and worthy of just being canceled like it was.  At the very least, it's star was never accused of terrorizing the poor folks of Hawaii...

[tv echo]

The Flash VFX Artist: If It Looks Like It Was Made in a Week, It Was
BY DAN GIROLAMO   JUNE 22, 2023
https://www.superherohype.com/movies/538330-the-flash-vfx-artist-week-quote 

Quote

One of the main criticisms of The Flash involves its heavy use of CGI. The special effects became so divisive that director Andy Muschietti had to publicly defend the film, stating how the distorted CGI was a conscious decision. Zach Mulligan, a VFX artist who worked on The Flash, explained the reasons behind the poor CGI in The Flash.

In a video posted to his TikTok, Mulligan described how VFX companies are hired by Marvel, Warner Bros., and other studios to complete their CGI shots. In this case, Warner Bros. states how many shots they need for a sequence and the VFX studios place bids to work on the film. The workload in each shot varies, yet it’s still considered one shot in the total quantity.

“Because of this, VFX artists are forced to work relentless hours, overtime almost every day, including weekends,” Mulligan said. “If the VFX companies aren’t meeting the unrealistic expectations that these studios are setting, the risk losing out on future contracts, and there’s only so many studios that are making superhero movies anymore.”

These insane deadlines for VFX shots are happening throughout the industry. Marvel received backlash for their treatment of VFX workers on Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. The race to put out multiple superhero projects per year across film and television to “please shareholders” is what Mulligan cites as the reason behind the poor CGI on a movie like The Flash.

“When you’re putting out this many projects with shorter turnarounds, the VFX will always look worse,” Mulligan said. “So if it looks like a VFX shot in The Flash was made in a week, it’s probably because it was.”

The Flash VFX Artist Breaks Down the DCU Blockbuster's 'Poor' CGI
BY LEON MILLER   JUNE 23, 2023
https://www.cbr.com/the-flash-vfx-artist-reason-for-bad-cgi/ 

Quote

Mulligan attributed The Flash's "poor" CGI to Hollywood's bidding process in a video shared on TikTok. "[Studios] will approach VFX companies and say, 'Hey, I have 2000 shots I need for this sequence' and the VFX studios will place a bid based on that quantity of shots," he said. "But here's the catch: the amount of work per shot varies dramatically. So one shot could have a wire removal, another shot could have wire removal, smoke [simulation], fire [simulation], face replacement [and] green screen. Despite the difference in workload between those two shots, they both are considered just one shot each."

Edited June 23, 2023 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Go to article link to watch video clip...

Watch a Falling-Baby Rescue in ‘The Flash’ 
By Mekado Murphy   June 23, 2023
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/movies/the-flash-clip.html 

Quote

The director Andy Muschietti was trying to figure out how to make a splash with an early scene in “The Flash.” He thought maybe a handful of babies falling from a skyscraper might do the trick.

Narrating a scene from the film, Muschietti said that the screenplay (by Christina Hodson) originally had a scene with a volcano, but that he wanted to raise the stakes. So in this sequence, Barry Allen, a.k.a. the Flash (Ezra Miller) arrives — a bit tardy — to a harrowing scene in which a building is collapsing and nine babies and a nurse are in freefall.

“I wanted to put his superpowers to a test,” Muschietti said, “and basically explaining that even if you are the fastest man alive, you can have trouble saving different people at the same time.”

The Flash’s troubles are compounded by the fact that he hasn’t had breakfast and his energy levels are dwindling, which means he slows down, and the slow-mo the audience is watching from his perspective begins to speed up. The scene is both comic and nerve-racking as the Flash uses wit (and perhaps a bag of Cheez-Its) to get him through.

Edited June 23, 2023 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

At what point can we officially call it a bomb?  Per Deadline, it looks like The Flash will end up in third place this weekend, and possibly fourth, being beat by both Elemental and Across the Spider-Verse.
 

Quote

Two animated movies, Disney/Pixar’s Elemental and Sony Animation’s monolith Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse, have punked The Flash and are in a fierce fight for No. 1 at the weekend box office with about $18 million apiece….

Meanwhile, Warner Bros/DC’s The Flash is looking at a second Friday of $4.3M and second weekend of $14M, right now down a massive 75%. Should that hold, it will be worse than the 66% second-weekend drop weathered by Warner Bros/DC’s Green Lantern back in 2011….

Flash could lose third to Sony’s new R-rated Jennifer Lawrence comedy No Hard Feelings which has a shot at $14M-$15M after a $5.3M Friday…..

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Starfish35

[Guest]

9 hours ago, tv echo said:

Go to article link to watch video clip...

Watch a Falling-Baby Rescue in ‘The Flash’ 
By Mekado Murphy   June 23, 2023
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/23/movies/the-flash-clip.html 

THAT’S the clip he uses as part of the promotion and “the great Ezra Miller”. Tell me you don’t understand the problem without telling me you don’t understand the problem. 

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

At what point can we officially call it a bomb?  Per Deadline, it looks like The Flash will end up in third place this weekend, and possibly fourth, being beat by both Elemental and Across the Spider-Verse.

Last weekend. Variety and others are now calling it a disaster. 

[Spartan Girl]

Well, I’m glad Elemental is starting to get more love after being dismissed as a flop.

The only thing that will satisfy me more is if The Little Mermaid gets a bigger total than The Flash. Seriously, guys, if you haven’t seen it, give it a chance, it’s actually one of the better remakes and Halle, unlike Ezra, is a very sweet person that doesn’t deserve all the crap she got.

[baldryanr]

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

The only thing that will satisfy me more is if The Little Mermaid gets a bigger total than The Flash. Seriously, guys, if you haven’t seen it, give it a chance, it’s actually one of the better remakes and Halle, unlike Ezra, is a very sweet person that doesn’t deserve all the crap she got.

That's pretty much guaranteed, isn't it?  TLM has made about $475 million worldwide, and the Flash is looking at a Black Adam level haul (~$400 million). 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, baldryanr said:

and the Flash is looking at a Black Adam level haul (~$400 million). 

Probably significantly less. Flash didn’t pass Black Adam’s domestic opening until Friday and it’s second weekend drop looks to be bigger. Then it’s going to lose a lot of screens to the new Indiana Jones movie. It will be a miracle if it hits $300 million. 

[millennium]

The Flash Falls Far and Fast in Second Weekend at Box Office
 

Quote

 

While The Flash had been given tremendous hype leading up to its arrival in movie theaters, the epic superhero film has underperformed at the box office. It opened to just over $55 million with a worldwide haul of around $130 million, and given how hundreds of millions were spent on the budget and marketing costs, these numbers have been disappointing for Warner Bros. Discovery. What's worse for the film is that it's looking at a very steep fall with its second weekend in theaters, which is among the lowest that there's ever been for a big-budget tentpole superhero film.

Per TheWrap, The Flash is projected to drop by more than 70% in theaters compared to its opening weekend, estimated to pull in around $14-16 million domestically. Some estimates expect The Flash will finish the weekend at a 72% drop, which would make it the second-worst second-weekend fall since Halloween Ends saw an 80% drop last fall, though that horror sequel was notably released on Peacock on the same day as its theatrical premiere. The Flash's numbers would also make it have a sharper fall than Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, which had a 69.9% drop for weekend two.

The Flash may also set the record for the furthest fall if it manages to see a fall of more than 73.8%. That's what Jared Leto's Morbius saw upon its own disastrous run in theaters last year. With that said, Morbius also had a worse opening than The Flash, as it debuted at $39 million. The Flash is also looking to lose its No. 1 spot to either Elemental or Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse for the weekend's box office.

What happened with The Flash? There had been a lot of excitement for the film to a certain extent, notably with the hyped return of Michael Keaton as Batman. But the film also had some factors that may have led to the disappointing box office performance. It must be noted that lead star Ezra Miller generated tremendous controversy with the film in post-production, and although the actor has largely kept a low profile over the past year, the damage may have been done, as some filmgoers said they wouldn't see The Flash with them in it. It could also be theorized that superhero fatigue is setting in to an extent with filmgoers, making many of these films not quite as must-see as they used to be.

In any case, chances are that The Flash won't be getting a sequel with these box office numbers in mind. That also likely means that this is the end of Miller as The Flash. Prior to the film's release, it had been teased that a sequel could potentially happen with Miller reprising the role, but that would have obviously depended upon the movie doing well. There are rumors that a Batman Beyond movie was tentatively going to be made if The Flash performed well, now canceled as a result of the box office performance.

The Flash is now playing in movie theaters.

 

 

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

There are rumors that a Batman Beyond movie was tentatively going to be made if The Flash performed well, now canceled as a result of the box office performance.

I’m absolutely delighted that this has effectively killed any talk of a sequel.  But I’m not sure how a Batman Beyond movie would have been tied to Flash’s success in any way.  I mean, I don’t really care about Batman Beyond one way or the other (I’ve never gotten around to watching the series) but I’m failing to see what one has to do with the other.  What have I missed?

Edited June 25, 2023 by Starfish35

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

I’m absolutely delighted that this has effectively killed any talk of a sequel.  But I’m not sure how a Batman Beyond movie would have been tied to Flash’s success in any way.  I mean, I don’t really care about Batman Beyond one way or the other (I’ve never gotten around to watching the series) but I’m failing to see what one has to do with the other.  What have I missed?

In his podcast Kevin Smith said he talked to the son of the guy who co-owns the rights to Batman movies and was told that if The Flash opened as well as The Batman they would make Batman Beyond with Keaton. So….

 

[Starfish35]

55 minutes ago, Dani said:

In his podcast Kevin Smith said he talked to the son of the guy who co-owns the right to Batman movies and was told that if The Flash opened as well as The Batman they would make Batman Beyond with Keaton. So….

 

😂 ok yeah, I had totally missed that.

[Guest]

With Saturday’s numbers, the weekend estimate is putting the second weekend drop at 73%. It’s continuing to lose pace to Black Adam’s numbers and is now 2% behind where Green Lantern was at the same point. At this rate it’s box office gross is going to be less than it’s production budget. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if DC leaks something big or offers up a sacrificial lamb. 

[Trini]

I think he only goes into like half the possible jokes that could be had with this cursed production, but here's the Pitch Meeting:

 

[MsNewsradio]

My friend was on her Fandango app and it was offering a BOGO deal on Flash tickets. Ouch. 

[Bruinsfan]

Miller must have picked up a whole bunch of tiki idols while they were breaking into people's homes in Hawaii!

Edited June 26, 2023 by Bruinsfan

[Starfish35]

Final weekend numbers per BoxOfficeMojo:

 

Flash came in #3 with a 72.5% drop.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Starfish35

[dmeets]

The only surprising thing is that they added 22 theaters last week. I'm sure that drew in at least a dozen people that wouldn't have seen it otherwise. Those new screenings are probably what kept it from falling to #4. 

[tv echo]

The Flash' Should've Been Cancelled If WB Wanted to Make Money, According to New Report
BY JUSTIN KLAWANS  JUNE 27, 2023
https://collider.com/the-flash-budget-box-office-less-expensive-to-cancel/ 

Quote

Box office analyst Luiz Fernando tweeted that The Flash's box office totals are likely to reach a cumulative $280 million to $310 million at the worldwide box office — the film just recently passed the $200 million milestone. However, given that the film had a reported $190 million budget, combined with the fact that studios only keep half of a project's global box office earnings, Fernando noted that Warner Bros. "would have lost less money releasing [The Flash] on Max or not releasing it at all." Apart from the $190 production price tag, the film also had a hefty $150 million marketing budget. Combined with the lackluster box office totals, this means that The Flash may not end up recouping most of its marketing cost, even if it matches box office projections.
*  *  *
Fernando also noted that the film has been dropping particularly quickly in the United States, where it is struggling to maintain a standing at the domestic box office. On its second Monday in theaters, the film brought in just $1.7 million in the U.S., a massive 73% drop from the week prior. This puts the project at an $89.2 domestic total, and Fernando noted that the film will likely end its American run somewhere around the $110 to $120 million mark.
*  *  *
A potential $200 million loss represents a sizeable blow to Warner Bros. — a company that is looking to restructure its superhero brand into the new DC Universe. Even the critically panned Justice League in 2017 only lost Warner Bros. an estimated $60 million, less than half of what it could drop on The Flash. So the studio is likely looking towards its upcoming releases as a way to try and get fans re-energized about DC characters. The studio's next release, Blue Beetle, is slated to bow on Aug. 18, 2023. The eponymous Blue Beetle is set to be the first character in the new DCU, and if the film performs decently, it could give the studio a chance to reset itself after the problems with The Flash.

From ‘Mario’ to ‘The Flash’: The Good, the Bad and the Meh of the 2023 Box Office (So Far)
By Rebecca Rubin, Brent Lang    Jun 27, 2023
https://variety.com/2023/film/news/box-office-2023-hits-misses-the-flash-super-mario-bros-1235654665/ 

Quote

THE UGLY

The Flash

Opening weekend: $55 million
Current global gross: $210 million
Verdict: In some alternate timeline, “The Flash,” which was touted by its own studio as “one of the greatest superhero movies of all time,” turned into a huge hit. But in this universe, audiences largely ignored the comic book adaptation, starring Ezra Miller as the eponymous speedster. It cost $200 million to make and roughly $100 million to market, so it’s shaping up to be a massive money loser for Warner Bros. It’s the second DC installment to flop in spectacular fashion after its new bosses, James Gunn and Peter Safran, announced a forthcoming reset to the sprawling superhero universe. So good luck to the two remaining DC entries in limbo, “Blue Beetle” (Aug. 18) and “Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom” (Dec. 20).

Edited June 28, 2023 by tv echo

[dmeets]

Schadenfreude aside, it is unfortunate that a probable result of this is that WB and DC decide to shelve The Flash indefinitely while they recast the rest of the Justice League, like they've done with Green Lantern ever since the infamous flop. There should have been a really great Flash movie made, had they considered if it might be a bit early in the game for the Flashpoint storyline, reassessed the Ezra situation, took it easy on the marketing hyperbole, and not made just about every poor CGI decision imaginable. But instead Gunn and co. will probably conclude that audiences don't want to see Barry Allen. Rather, we'll just get 2 or 3 Batman and Superman universes (each) simultaneously. And Weasel. Plenty of Weasel.

[Trini]

46 minutes ago, dmeets said:

Schadenfreude aside, it is unfortunate that a probable result of this is that WB and DC decide to shelve The Flash indefinitely while they recast the rest of the Justice League, like they've done with Green Lantern ever since the infamous flop.

Yeah, I was just thinking about this; for fans of the Flash/Flash family, it'll probably be another generation - if ever - before there's another Flash movie.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, dmeets said:

Schadenfreude aside, it is unfortunate that a probable result of this is that WB and DC decide to shelve The Flash indefinitely while they recast the rest of the Justice League, like they've done with Green Lantern ever since the infamous flop. There should have been a really great Flash movie made, had they considered if it might be a bit early in the game for the Flashpoint storyline, reassessed the Ezra situation, took it easy on the marketing hyperbole, and not made just about every poor CGI decision imaginable. But instead Gunn and co. will probably conclude that audiences don't want to see Barry Allen. Rather, we'll just get 2 or 3 Batman and Superman universes (each) simultaneously. And Weasel. Plenty of Weasel.

I agree. I fully expect them to take all the wrong lessons from this bombing just like they did from BvS and JL bombing. They have so much to work with and keep making all the wrong decisions. The Flash movie being in development hell didn’t mean that the right decision was to jump all the way to Flashpoint. I want to become invested in this characters and they make it impossible. 

 

[Tenshinhan]

2 hours ago, dmeets said:

But instead Gunn and co. will probably conclude that audiences don't want to see Barry Allen.

That's not really a bad conclusion to make in my view.  After such a failed outing, I think it's only sensible to lay off any Flash related projects for the foreseeable future, *especially* involving Barry Allen.  It's too bad for Flash fans, but the audiences spoke clearly.

 

2 hours ago, dmeets said:

Rather, we'll just get 2 or 3 Batman and Superman universes (each) simultaneously.

This isn't an unreasonable decision to me.  Batman/Superman are the heavy hitters of DC, with a proven track record.  Flash as a character just can't compare.  You can risk overexposure for the big shots, but with Flash it seems smarter just to let it go.  Especially with so many other DC characters that are waiting to be adapted.

[Guest]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:31 PM, Tenshinhan said:

That's not really a bad conclusion to make in my view.  After such a failed outing, I think it's only sensible to lay off any Flash related projects for the foreseeable future, *especially* involving Barry Allen.  It's too bad for Flash fans, but the audiences spoke clearly.

 

I think it’s failing had very little to do with the character. I would say the audience spoke clearly that you can’t skip world building, tank your reputation by putting out subpar movie after subpar movie, have your lead go on a crime spree which you ignore, overhype the movie to a absurd degree, spend nearly two months giving full screenings, have CGI that can’t stand up to an X-Men movie from a decade ago, announce that is a lameduck franchise and expect the audience to care. 

[Spartan Girl]

I saw the infamous baby clip. What in the actual hell?! Leaving aside the bad CGI, babies in danger being played for laughs is not cool, okay? Superman would never.

[millennium]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:35 PM, dmeets said:

Schadenfreude aside, it is unfortunate that a probable result of this is that WB and DC decide to shelve The Flash indefinitely while they recast the rest of the Justice League, like they've done with Green Lantern ever since the infamous flop.

DC is constantly trying to play catch-up with Marvel, which is probably futile and self-destructive in the long run.   DC should have forged its own path rather than struggling to be the discount doppleganger of an outfit that could never best them in comic book sales.   Justice League was always going to be compared unfavorably to the Avengers in the movies, because Marvel did it first.  Plus Marvel heroes are humorous as well as heroic, while the DC characters are a bunch of stiffs by comparison.   I always liked that in the comic books the DC characters seemed to have more gravitas than their Marvel counterparts, but having every character be stoic in a movie won't cut it.   At the same time, you can't exactly have Batman or Superman being a smart aleck.   Green Lantern's another buzzkill.   Green Arrow is pissed off all the time.   I like Wonder Woman but I'm not sure she'd be fun on a date.   Marvel heroes have always had more quirks and personality so the transition to movies was more natural.  

The next DC movie is The Blue Beetle.   Am I the only one thinking who or what is The Blue Beetle?

[Starfish35]

I only know who Blue Beetle is because of watching Young Justice.  I’m surprised they’re not doing more marketing for that film.

Weekend estimates have Flash falling to #8, behind Little Mermaid.  

[millennium]

3 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I’m surprised they’re not doing more marketing for that film.

I'm surprised they're doing this film at all.  When you have only two movies coming out in the near future, why squander one of them on a character lacking instant recognition?

[tv echo]

Yep, The Flash fell to #8 in its third weekend, with $5.23M (for a total gross of $99.48M so far)...
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/2023W26/?ref_=bo_wey_table_5 

[Fool to cry]

On 7/2/2023 at 12:25 PM, millennium said:

I'm surprised they're doing this film at all.  When you have only two movies coming out in the near future, why squander one of them on a character lacking instant recognition?

I don't know but I saw the trailer before Indiana Jones yesterday and George Lopez's  last line got a laugh. The kid is from Cobra Kai show and I hope this one turns out to be a sleeper hit the way the first Karate Kid was.

[oliviabenson]

This movie was BAD. I saw it yesterday. Ooof…

I fell asleep a few times too boot.

I did enjoy seeing Michael and George.

Ezra is not a good actor. 

[Spartan Girl]

Schadenfreude complete:

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

41 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Schadenfreude complete:

 

😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆

[Bruinsfan]

[tv echo]

10 minutes of this movie have been released online...

The Flash | Extended Preview | Warner Bros. Entertainment
Warner Bros. Entertainment   Jul 18, 2023

[revbfc]

I keep think about that Nick Cage cameo, and wondering what was stopping them from just having him be in it instead of Supergirl?

Don’t get me wrong, Sasha Calle was great, but I would have loved to have seen Nick Cage & Michael Keaton chewing the scenery together.

Also: who thought it was a good idea to redo a storyline that the tv show did better?

[baldryanr]

11 minutes ago, revbfc said:

I keep think about that Nick Cage cameo, and wondering what was stopping them from just having him be in it instead of Supergirl?

They weren't going to put out a movie with zero female leads.  Plus it gave a certain segment of the fandom something to rant about (how dare you replace Superman with a woman (and a Latina woman at that).

 

[Bruinsfan]

On 7/23/2023 at 2:19 PM, baldryanr said:

Plus it gave a certain segment of the fandom something to rant about (how dare you replace Superman with a woman (and a Latina woman at that).

Why is that segment of the fandom watching a movie starring a nonbinary actor who uses they/them pronouns in the first place? Did the spree of assaults and the poor gun control in a rural compound suddenly make Miller okay in their books?

[tv echo]

'Well, I was glad I didn't blink': Nicolas Cage talks 'Flash' Superman cameo, turning 60
Brian Truitt    July 27, 2023
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2023/07/27/nicolas-cage-sympathy-for-the-devil-movie-interview/70470149007/ 

Quote

Your "Superman Lives" movie was infamously scrapped in the ‘90s. So what was it like finally seeing yourself in the cape battling a giant spider in “The Flash”?

Well, I was glad I didn't blink. For me, it was the feeling of being actualized. Even that look for that particular character, finally seeing it on screen, was satisfying. But as I said, it's quick. If you really wanted to know what I was going do with that character, look at my performance in “City of Angels.”

I was supposed (to play) Clark Kent after that (in "Superman Lives"), and I was already developing this alien otherness playing this angel. That is a perfect example of the tonality you would've gotten for Kal-El and for Clark Kent: Clark would've been a little more amusing but Kal-El (had) the sensitivity and the goodness and the vulnerability and all those feelings that were kind of angelic and also terrifying. 

Edited July 28, 2023 by tv echo

[BetterButter]

 

[EtheltoTillie]

I never saw the TV show, so I guess I'm liking this movie better than most here (we are streaming it and have to finish watching later today).  Lots of funny stuff, e.g., the two versions of Barry and the time line jokes (Eric Stoltz LOL).  I'm conflicted about Miller, but I wanted to see it anyway.  They're doing a good job playing the two versions of Barry, I think.  What about the uncredited Affleck?  Also interesting. 

[PurpleTentacle]

At first I enjoyed myself and was wondering why this movie was so panned and nobody went to see it.

Then that last third. Uh boy. That was after how many reshoots? How bad was this movie before? So not only is that world going to die by the hand of Zod, making the whole film up to that point pointless, no Barry also refuses to learn from it. He alters time again, despite the fact that it was explained to him, that that will shift the whole timeline, even before the change was made, so it doesn't matter how tiny the change was. And sure enough, now George Clooney is Batman. Timeline fucked to hell yet again.

And he didn't think just vibrating his dad out of prison and asking his friend Bruce to set him up on a tropical Island somewhere, would be a better option than altering freaking time?! Seriously?! How dumb is this guy?

[PurpleTentacle]

On 7/2/2023 at 9:25 PM, millennium said:

I'm surprised they're doing this film at all.  When you have only two movies coming out in the near future, why squander one of them on a character lacking instant recognition?

I assume because nobody wants to see Superman, Batman or Wonderwoman anymore. WB has done an increadibly thorough job in ruining their big three in the last decade.

[millennium]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

WB has done an increadibly thorough job in ruining their big three in the last decade.

The last Batman movie was pretty good.   4 out of 5 IMO, with the silly "rata alada" clue being the reason it wasn't 5 out of 5.

I also thought Affleck did a good job with the role.   A pity he wasn't given a standalone movie from the start.

And the Christopher Nolan films are pretty well-regarded (although marred by the third film, IMO).   I suppose the Joker movie was a success.  I refuse to watch it, so I can't say much about it.

The first Wonder Woman movie was praised by everyone (personally I found the final battle scene overwrought and boring, much like its counterparts in Batman vs. Superman and Justice League).   How they managed to ruin the second movie baffles me, especially with a star as likeable as Gal Gadot.

But there's no bright side to anything that happened with Superman.   Henry Cavill never had a chance.  They also messed up Lois Lane and Lex Luthor at the casting level.

Anyway, I still think there's an audience for these characters.   I think we keep going back hoping they'll finally get it right.

 

[PurpleTentacle]

27 minutes ago, millennium said:

The last Batman movie was pretty good.   4 out of 5 IMO, with the silly "rata alada" clue being the reason it wasn't 5 out of 5.

I genuinly don't remember it. Not sure if I've seen it or not. Unless you mean the one with Robert Pattinson. That one was okay.

29 minutes ago, millennium said:

I also thought Affleck did a good job with the role.   A pity he wasn't given a standalone movie from the start.

He did a good job, but you can only do so much if you are settled with crap writing. The superman and justice league movies he was in were certainly turds. Again, don't remember a solo movie. Did he have one and I just forgot?

29 minutes ago, millennium said:

And the Christopher Nolan films are pretty well-regarded (although marred by the third film, IMO). 

The last one of those was in 2012, so out of scope for "in the last decade".

31 minutes ago, millennium said:

The first Wonder Woman movie was praised by everyone (personally I found the final battle scene overwrought and boring, much like its counterparts in Batman vs. Superman and Justice League).   How they managed to ruin the second movie baffles me, especially with a star as likeable as Gal Gadot.

I personally think Gal Gadot is very likeable, but a horrible, horrible actor. The first movie was good in spite of her, not because of her. The second movie was already pretty bad from the script. That combined with her horrible acting gave it the kiss of death.

35 minutes ago, millennium said:

Anyway, I still think there's an audience for these characters.   I think we keep going back hoping they'll finally get it right.

Eventually, but not now. I don't want to see these characters again for a while and I'm a pretty big nerd who grew up loving Batman (the other two I was honestly indifferent to). If I'm annoyed with them, I can only imagine how the general public feels. I think it's not the worst idea to ease audiences into the new universe with less well known, fresh characters, how Marvel did with Ironman (kinda on accident). People forget that that was not a super well known character back then.

[Tenshinhan]

3 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I think it's not the worst idea to ease audiences into the new universe with less well known, fresh characters, how Marvel did with Ironman (kinda on accident).

I agree, but it looks like the new DCU will be doing the exact opposite by starting off with a new Superman and new Batman right away.

[Bruinsfan]

Warner Brothers must think if they make more than a couple of DC Comics movies that aren't Batman-centric in a row, the whole planet will explode.

[millennium]

I always wondered how it would all end. 

[EtheltoTillie]

I really loved the

Spoiler

George Clooney cameo

.  Amazing there were no leaks about it, and I thought it was fun.