S01.E04: Partners, Am I Right?

[Kate47]

33 minutes ago, Dani said:

She was literally at ground zero for the Battle of New York so I don’t think it’s accurate to say she doesn’t understand the real stakes or hasn’t experienced loss. She seems more like the type who responded to loss by needing to be in control and protect others. It’s not that she doesn’t know any better but that she knows exactly what it feels like to be helpless. 

Totally! I never meant to imply that she hasn't experienced loss, or that she's not using this as a safeguard against that. She just..I don't know, she hasn't associated the one with the other yet? It's still so new and she hasn't yet realized that this new strength comes with consequences.  I don't know, when Clint told her that a black widow was called in and things were way way more serious, she understood and walked away but idk if it's really a knowledge that sits with her, that this life can kill.

ETA: I also feel the need to mention that I love Kate's humor and her sass and I hope she never loses it, even if she realizes that actions have  consequences. I don't want her character to be grimdark but I also don't want her to feel invincible all the time. Just my two cents!

Edited December 10, 2021 by Kate47
Clarification

[silverstream]

On 12/9/2021 at 3:14 AM, Zonk said:

I mean I wouldn't call it fluid. It was supposed to be german, but so hard to understand, I had to read the english subtitles to get what she was saying and I'm a native german speaker...

It wasn't even just the pronounciation. After listening to the words 10 times I think I can make out what she was saying: "Verschwinde noch mehr auf dem Gelände?" Those words are in the wrong order and/or in the wrong tense. Correct would be "Ist noch mehr auf dem Gelände verschwunden?".

This! It continually surprises me that these shows with budets of millions and millions of dollars approach other languages with a "meh, we'll just google translate it" attitude. Really, you can't pay an actual translator/native speaker 20 bucks for translating literally two lines of dialogue?

Did Kate not check at all whether her mother/stepfather/their staff (they're definitely not cleaning that giant loft on their own) were at home?

Kate approaching the LARPers in the park, while fun, took me out of the narrative a bit - so all that's needed to get this policewoman to tamper with evidence/hand out potentially dangerous weapons to strangers is to tell her "I know this random celebrity whom you were very publicly seen with recently"? And she's going to admit it in front of everyone, too.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, silverstream said:

This! It continually surprises me that these shows with budets of millions and millions of dollars approach other languages with a "meh, we'll just google translate it" attitude. Really, you can't pay an actual translator/native speaker 20 bucks for translating literally two lines of dialogue?

This is assuming they weren’t going for a flawed translation. It could have been a indicator that she’s fluent in German or just that they know enough to communicate in German when necessary. I tend to think it’s the second and was just to show how used to communicating in code they are. Of course they could reveal she is a native German speaker and then it was just laziness but it’s too soon to tell. 

[SnarkShark]

On 12/8/2021 at 8:56 PM, SnarkShark said:

There's almost certainly got to be a payoff for the very deliberate setup of Kate not shooting Yelena. A conversation, either scornful that she's not meant for this, or the reverse where she doesn't kill Kate in payback. 

I've since learned my guess here is half right.

Go back and watch the sequence where Yelena throws Kate off the building in slow motion.

You'll see that the line that's holding Kate up later in that scene was clipped on Kate BY Yelena.

So the "payback" actually already happened.  Beforehand.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

42 minutes ago, Kate47 said:

Totally! I never meant to imply that she hasn't experienced loss, or that she's not using this as a safeguard against that. She just..I don't know, she hasn't associated the one with the other yet? It's still so new and she hasn't yet realized that this new strength comes with consequences.  I don't know, when Clint told her that a black widow was called in and things were way way more serious, she understood and walked away but idk if it's really a knowledge that sits with her, that this life can kill.

ETA: I also feel the need to mention that I love Kate's humor and her sass and I hope she never loses it, even if she realizes that actions have  consequences. I don't want her character to be grimdark but I also don't want her to feel invincible all the time. Just my two cents!

Come to that, a better comparison might be between Kate and Yelena, who are much closer in age. A rewatch reminded me that during the fight on the roof, they make eye contact after Yelena loses her mask and Clint was trying to pull the electric shock thing off of his throat. And Yelena just kind of shakes her head a little before making her exit, either because she didn't expect Barton to have backup, or that she thought Kate wasn't entirely prepared to take the shot when she was only a foot away from her. Even though she's free of the Red Room now, Yelena's never had a 'civilian' life with things like college and arguing with her mom about holiday parties, it's always been training and fighting and everything that goes with it. "Because pain and suffering is every day, and we are both still trained killers."

[silverstream]

41 minutes ago, Dani said:

This is assuming they weren’t going for a flawed translation. It could have been a indicator that she’s fluent in German or just that they know enough to communicate in German when necessary. I tend to think it’s the second and was just to show how used to communicating in code they are. Of course they could reveal she is a native German speaker and then it was just laziness but it’s too soon to tell. 

That's possible, but if they were going for that, they didn't do it very well - as a German native speaker, I wouldn't have understood what she was saying without subtitles or thinking about it really hard (in fact, I actually though she was speaking Dutch or another Nordic language at first), so Clint shouldn't have understood her either in that case. It didn't seem like the kind of error somebody learning German would make unless they're trying out German tenses for the very first time (at least definitely not if they're an English native speaker, which, fair enough, we don't know if Laura is).

Though I don't want to seem like I'm singling out this show for this - it's pretty much an issue for most shows and, I'm sure, most languages.

[Morrigan2575]

On 12/8/2021 at 5:39 AM, Humbugged said:

We don't know that killing him is her mission

I've been saying that forever... 😮 

So the watch at first I thought Stark I mean it is a Rolex but, now I'm thinking Coulson? Unless they're introducing a brand new SHIELD Agent?

I just love this series, it's fun and plays into the absurd of an archer super hero.

Was the boomerang arrow a joke about comics Hawkeye or snark on Green Arrow? I want it to be snark on GA...trying to remember if Arrow ever had a Boomerang Arrow, I know they did the boxing glove.

[Morrigan2575]

On 12/8/2021 at 7:12 PM, calliope1975 said:

I just read a theory that the watch

  Reveal spoiler

is Laura's and she was Mockingbird.

I like this speculation and would like more. Thanks.

Oh wow, I.love it.

[paigow]

Valentina wants Barton dead and gave that mission to Yelena... If Yelena wants to deviate, so be it...

[WildPlum]

I am not sure that the Contessa wants Clint dead quite as much as she is looking for a tie between herself and Yelena. Hand Yelena a person she can blame for Natasha's death and she establishes a bit of rapport. If Yelena kills Clint, then Val knows it worked and Yelena might come to her for other info.

[calliope1975]

I'm not sure at this point what Val wants. I'm sure if [spoiler for FATWS]

Spoiler

Cosplay Cap had killed Sam and Bucky,

she wouldn't have lost any sleep, same with Clint, but I don't know if she wants all the Avengers dead or is just creating her own crew.  

[paigow]

Black Widow end credits established that Yelena has already done jobs for Valentina without any revenge incentives. Consequently, Valentina expects Barton to die...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

36 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm not sure at this point what Val wants. I'm sure if [spoiler for FATWS]

  Hide contents

Cosplay Cap had killed Sam and Bucky,

she wouldn't have lost any sleep, same with Clint, but I don't know if she wants all the Avengers dead or is just creating her own crew.  

Both?

I can't get past that Val motivated Yelena by telling her that Barton is responsible for her sister's death, because if she doesn't want Clint dead that seems like a bad way to start. We don't know if Yelena ever saw Natasha again before she died, if she and Alexei and Melina were Snapped and she sacrificed herself  to bring them back in addition to everyone else, and Clint really seems to have no idea about the personal connection. I'm not sure what point there was in a deliberate half-truth if a dead Hawkeye isn't what she wants.

[calliope1975]

4 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Both?

That's fair. I'm curious where Val will show up next, or if we'll get surprise JLD in random places. Timeline wise, we were supposed to get her introduction in BW before TFATWS. I think that may be influencing how I'm reading stuff. I do think she sent Yelena after Clint, and likely to kill, but her role in TFATWS clouded that a bit for me. Ah well, we shall see what happens next. 

[paigow]

Val would know not to recruit genuine Team Rogers members for Team Fake!Cap

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, paigow said:

Val would know not to recruit genuine Team Rogers members for Team Fake!Cap

Maybe, maybe not. I watched the end scene again and I still think the wording was designed to be a misdirect.

Then again, maybe the setup is a reverse of Clint/Nat. Where Yelena was sent to kill Clint but, couldn't and recruits him. Yeah you could argue Clint just wants to be with his family but, he also carries around a lot of guilt and shame from his Ronin days.

I don't know what's going to happen but, I sure hope it's answered in the next 2 episodes and not some end scene on another movie or series.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Morrigan2575

[arc]

9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Was the boomerang arrow a joke about comics Hawkeye

It's almost straight out of the comics, except 

Spoiler

in the comics, Clint already has the arrow made and Kate's the one who scoffs at it.

 

[Morrigan2575]

8 hours ago, arc said:

It's almost straight out of the comics, except 

  Reveal spoiler

in the comics, Clint already has the arrow made and Kate's the one who scoffs at it.

 

The switch makes sense, MCU Clint works well as the straight man to Kate's exuberance

[Kel Varnsen]

I liked seeing Laura do more and basically be Clint's support person. It would be hilarious if her job in SHIELD was some kind of bland desk job like HR manager or something. Since there has to be 1000's of behind the scenes people for every agent to keep an organization that big running.

Also who did she say she called to get the info for Clint. She said it was someone who sounded out of breath or something. Was it Fury?

[anna0852]

I really hope we see Yelena and Clint bonding over Nat. It's only right that her family mourn together. 

[Morrigan2575]

I was just reading an article @tv echo posted in the media thread. I can't believe I didn't realize Kate falling off the roof was a Voramir/Natasha parallel. No wonder Clint was all shook up.

Edited December 17, 2021 by Morrigan2575