Little House Series and Pioneer Girl Readalong

[BatmanBeatles]

It's probably true since I read that Laura was quite strong willed in the marriage.

[CherryAmes]

Her being strong willed is what reconciled me to the age difference.  I can't see anyone taking advantage of Laura!

[juneday]

The age difference never bothered me since that was pretty common back then and Almonzo seemed like a good guy.

[BatmanBeatles]

Besides, it's not like he was old enough to be her father.

[Pogojoco]

Which makes me wonder...

In the Big Woods, Pa let their hog run free in the woods, and sometimes the cow. I'm not sure if he set traps then, but he wouldn't have set them on his own land where his hog could get it's leg broken. So where did he set them? Most of the land was owned then, even the tree lots.

Now  in LHOTP, Kansas wasn't land owned by white men, and it does say that Pa set his traps in the creek bottoms. He shot wolves and foxes and deer, and his traps caught beaver and muskrat and mink. The Indians must not have liked that too much; not only having so much game killed but finding steel-jaw spring traps in a place they used for their travels and their horses. Of course Charles thought anything that wasn't red-hot and nailed down was his, but things might have gone better if he hadn't just barged into someone else's source of food and materials and wiped out as much as a tribe probably did all winter. No wonder the Indians came in and took a little compensation...they did leave the furs though. And then of course people called them thieves.

I just found this thread....

 

I read LHOTP when I was about 7 or 8, and one of the most vivid moments is  when the two natives come in to the house and basically make Ma give them coffee and tobacco. One is wearing a skunk pelt, so he reeks. I remember that.  It, of course, scared me but when I found out years later that Pa was out there trapping on their land and that the family was basically squatting, I thought these two dudes were completely badass. 

 

Also, to everyone talking about Pa being ridiculous. It's so true. I never thought this when I read it as a kid, but holy crap, was he a pain in the ass. 

 

Also a pain in the ass? Rose Wilder. Her changes to her mother's manuscripts reveal that she's the worst kind of idealogue and also, kind of an idiot. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by Pogojoco

[camom]

I never understood why Ma and Pa didn't go to Rev. Brown's when Laura and Almanzo got married.  Is it because their presence would have made it a "wedding" and Almanzo's family would get mad?  It doesn't make sense to me.  It's not like they were really eloping, and it was only two miles from home.  

[jammaker]

 

I never understood why Ma and Pa didn't go to Rev. Brown's when Laura and Almanzo got married.  Is it because their presence would have made it a "wedding" and Almanzo's family would get mad?

 

It also didn't make sense that he was unwilling to disappoint/upset his mother by telling her they couldn't afford a big church wedding, but was totally cool with telling her "sorry Ma, already married!".   How is that better?

[BatmanBeatles]

I got the impression that Mother Wilder and Eliza would steamroll him and plan the wedding anyway.

[henrysmom]

That was kind of how I interpreted it.  If he and Laura weren't married when Eliza and their mother got there, they'd end up with a big fancy wedding neither of them wanted.  And if they had even a simple ceremony with Laura's family present it would give Eliza something to gripe about for the next fifty years.  So they just went off and got married on their own.

Edited October 8, 2014 by henrysmom

[Snow Apple]

So Mother Wilder and Eliza Jane were on their way already. And they are going to let them arrive and spring it on them that they already got married? Yikes! To be a fly on that wall.

[camom]

I never got the impression that Laura didn't want a wedding, it was just that she knew Pa couldn't afford it.  And I suppose it would have been unthinkable to let the Wilders pay for it.  The whole thing seemed sort of sad.  And I had to laugh at getting married, having dinner with the folks, then going to their own home for the first time and…getting to work immediately.  The books are definitely G-rated.

[henrysmom]

A long long time ago I was on a Little House Usenet group and somebody posed the trivia question "When was the only mention of sex made in the books?"  And I thought about it and thought about it.  Could not think of a thing.  Asked my sister, who is a bigger fan than me and she couldn't think of anything.  Nobody else on the group had a clue, though somebody did say we should all be ashamed of ourselves for mentioning "filth" (yeah, that was the word she used) on a group where children might be reading.

 

Anyway, the answer turned out to be that

 

in The First Four Years, Laura is pregnant with Rose and not too happy about it and she mentions something along the lines of paying the piper after the fun of the dance, or something similar.

[juneday]

Anyway, the answer turned out to be that

in The First Four Years, Laura is pregnant with Rose and not too happy about it and she mentions something along the lines of paying the piper after the fun of the dance, or something similar.

Hah, that's a classy way to put that, I suppose

[ElderPrice]

Yeah, when Laura finds out that she's pregnant she remembers her Ma's saying that "they who dance must pay the piper". Pretty classy way of hinting at a sex life. And in THGY, Ma asks Laura to have at least a small wedding at home and Laura says that they can't have any sort of a wedding and not include Almanzo's family, so they go off and get married alone.

[smittykins]

I liked how(since it was mentioned that Ma didn't like puns)Laura says that a hundred dollars had gone to pay for doctor bills and hired help, but "A Rose in December is rarer than a rose in June, and must be paid for accordingly."

[moonb]

Ha, the amusing "they that dance must pay the fiddler," plus the strange interaction with the Boasts wanting to take Rose, are the really memorable fun and slightly creepy parts of The First Four Years. The rest of it is just so unrelentingly depressing. 

[BatmanBeatles]

Oh the Boasts! How weird is it to have a nice visit with your friends and then just to have them ask you to give them your baby? And the kicker is that Mr. Boast tells them they can always have more babies. Guess what happens?

Edited October 10, 2014 by BatmanBeatles

[juneday]

That part creeped me out. I felt really sorry for Mrs. Boast but at the same time-imagine how awkward that would have been for Laura and Almonzo next time they saw the Boasts!

And yeah, just because they're young and seemingly healthy doesn't mean they can/will have more children...

[Pogojoco]

Had I known what a bossy, Libertarian Rose becomes, I might've just given her to the Boasts and written my book the way I wanted to. 

Edited October 10, 2014 by Pogojoco

[Snow Apple]

After reading the Rose Wilder Lane thread, I wonder if it might be better if she had gone to the Boasts. They seem well-to-do. He seems jolly and a hard worker. She adores children and Rose may have had the love she felt denied her. But then, were her stubborn nature, bossy personality, and views a result of nature or nurture?

[CherryAmes]

I don't doubt that the situation with the Boasts actually happened but it always bothered me that in a time when orphans were, well free for the asking basically, they didn't just head for the nearest orphanage and fill their house with children.  Nowadays it's a lot more difficult to get a baby but back in hardy pioneer times when accidents and illnesses could carry off people pretty quickly I'd be surprised to learn than it was impossible to adopt if you chose to.

[BatmanBeatles]

They probably wanted a baby from someone they knew and trusted. There was this paranoia about orphans. People thought that if you didn't know who their parents were, the orphan could be a serial killer.

[cathy7304]

After reading the Rose Wilder Lane thread, I wonder if it might be better if she had gone to the Boasts. They seem well-to-do. He seems jolly and a hard worker. She adores children and Rose may have had the love she felt denied her. But then, were her stubborn nature, bossy personality, and views a result of nature or nurture?

Snow Apple, do you have a link to the Rose Wilder thread mentioned in your post? So sorry if I've just missed it. I've always been interested in her but never been to find a whole lot of information on her. Thanks in advance.

[Snow Apple]

Snow Apple, do you have a link to the Rose Wilder thread mentioned in your post? So sorry if I've just missed it. I've always been interested in her but never been to find a whole lot of information on her. Thanks in advance.

It's under the Books topic too. Here's the direct link:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/15656-rose-wilder-lane/#entry452190

[cathy7304]

It's under the Books topic too. Here's the direct link:

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/15656-rose-wilder-lane/#entry452190

THANKX!

[PrincessLuceval]

 

There was this paranoia about orphans. People thought that if you didn't know who their parents were, the orphan could be a serial killer.

 

"Mark my words, Marilla. That's the kind puts strychnine in the well." Oops, wrong thread. :)

[camom]

Thank you, Athena, for starting this.  It has been such fun for me to stroll down memory lane and to re-read theses classics.  And everyone's insight and comments made me see things I hadn't before.  An enjoyable eight weeks!

Edited October 13, 2014 by camom

[cathy7304]

I totally second this. This is my first read-along and I have enjoyed every day of it!

[juneday]

I have as well! Very interesting and made me realize some things I hadn't noticed before about the books and the characters.

[Athena]

I actually fell way behind and just have the last book to reread. I hope you guys don't mind if I keep this topic pinned up a little longer. If you have ideas for readalongs, let me know via PM and we can arrange something similar to this.

 

I am going to write a roundup post about my experience of rereading the books. How was it for you guys? Did the readalong and the group commentary change how you view the books now? Do you like them more or less than you did before? Do you feel that they have merit as an American classic and would still recommend them to young readers? It would be interesting to to read all your general thoughts about the series as a whole.

[juneday]

That sounds good!

I would say I like them a little less, tbh. This read along helped me see things that I hadn't seen before (about Pa, Almonzo, Ma, etcetera.) that I wouldn't had had we not had this. I realized some of the characters' intentions weren't as innocent as they seemed. It was very informative a and funny, as well!

[Mybrainhurts]

I like the books a lot less than when I first read them because the illusion of a happy family facing life as pioneers in a beautiful new land is stripped away once you realize that Pa is a problematic character who put his family at risk multiple times for no real reason.  However, I like Laura as a person a whole lot more.  This is a person who really worked her way through all the crap that life threw at her and came out as a pretty decent person at the end of it all.  I wish that she had had a happier life with Almanzo but unfortunately they chose to be farmers, which even under the best of circumstances, is a difficult life to live.  

 

As far as being an American classic, I would agree to a certain point.  As long as kids learn that this is the way that one person (or two people, if you count Rose's editorial commentary in certain parts of the books) thought about "how the West was won" and that there is a lot of stretching of truth in these books, I definitely think the books are worthwhile reading for children just for a lot of the imagery alone. 

 

ETA--This has been so much fun to read with everyone all over again.  I loved getting new insights into the books and had a lot of fun talking about the books with other people!

Edited October 18, 2014 by Mybrainhurts

[smittykins]

I still like the books, even though I realize now that they're more fiction than fact(even though I've always known they weren't 100% reality).  I can appreciate them as good storytelling, although it does kind of bug me that Pa wasn't the nobel, hardworking patriarch he's presented as.

 

I've totally enjoyed reading along with everyone.

[CherryAmes]

I don't think, even as a child, that I ever thought these books were anything more than fiction based on fact. Not unlike Caddie Woodlawn or even the All of A Kind Family.  I guess the conflicts arose if you were aware of Rose saying things like "ever word my mother wrote is true"  but luckily I never knew about that until I was much older and reading books like the Zochert biog. 

 

As for Pa I may be in a minority but nothing I've read so far has changed my opinion on him much.  He may not have been Perfect Pa but he did work hard for his family even if there wasn't always much to show for his efforts.

[Queena]

I suggest a read along for Pioneer Girl. It will be released next month. I will be nice to hear opinions about LIW's original manuscript.

[henrysmom]

Did the readalong and the group commentary change how you view the books now?

 

  

Interesting question.  I'd have to say my view of the books hasn't changed all that much.  When I read the books when I was young I just saw them as yet another book.  I read a lot then, still do, and I tended not to obsess over books that much as a child.  I just read a book, moved on to the next book, then the next, and the next, etc.

 

It was only when I was an English literature in college that I learned the joy of dissecting a book, of learning about the book's author, of obsessing over every single line in a book.  And by that time I'd gotten cynical enough so that I never expected the "truth".  Or I'd learned that there might be fifty versions of "truth", and all of them might actually be true, in one way or another.  

 

So when I started researching and reading about LIW and her life I can't say that much shocked me.  I knew the books were fiction, and was prepared for changes.  Most didn't surprise me.  Laura's not writing about Freddie and his death, for one thing.  Just too painful to write about, especially considering that she also lost a son of her own.  I was more upset about allegations that Cap Garland may not have gone on that famous ride for the seed wheat during the long winter, and that Mr. Edwards didn't actually exist (or was a composite--I think the jury is still out on that one).

 

I don't have quite the disdain for Pa that others do.  If nothing else, the man left behind one daughter who absolutely adored him.  He may not have been the paragon she displayed, but he must have done something right as a parent if Laura so cleared loved him and honored his memory with the word portrait she made of him.

 

That said, I have no idea if this opinion will shift once I read Pioneer Girl.  So I am more than up for a readalong of that book when it is finally published.

[Pickles Aplenty]

Since I gave up on the re-read after the muskrat conversation in The Long Winter, yeah, I would say my view of the series as a whole changed.  I tried, but I just couldn't stomach it after that.  I still enjoy the series for the nostalgia and I would recommend it to anyone, adult or child, who is interested in the way people lived back then, but I just felt like Rose Wilder Lane's personal politics were being sneaked in, here and there, and it felt slimy and gross to me.  Propaganda.  Ick.

[ElderPrice]

A readalong for Pioneer Girl is a great idea! I have my copy pre-ordered and would love to share the experience with everyone else.  

[Athena]

A readalong for Pioneer Girl is a great idea! I have my copy pre-ordered and would love to share the experience with everyone else.  

 

Sure. I have amended the title and the first post to reflect this. The book will be released a month from now and anyone can talk about Pioneer Girl and compare it to the original series. 

[Snow Apple]

I watching my pennies so I don't think I should buy a copy but I'm crossing my fingers that my local library will order it.

[PrairieSmoke]

When Pioneer Girl publishes, I'm so here.

[DakotaJustice]

When Pioneer Girl publishes, I'm so here.

Me too!!

[moonb]

Now I'm really curious to read Pioneer Girl:

 

Slate review

[kassa]

From the link pages back about Mary’s college years.  I can't be the only one to find this amusing!

 

Fire drills were held periodically while Mary was in school. If everyone managed to clear the building within three minutes after the fire alarm sounded, Thomas McCune would reward the group by canceling classes for the remainder of the day, with his permission to seek whatever reasonable amusement they preferred.106

 

 

Little Town features my personal rage moment:  Miss Wilder's treatment of Carrie, and the Ingalls parents rather blase attitude.  "Miss Wilder may have been wrong, but she is the teacher.  I cannot have my girls making trouble in school."  If *any* teacher had bullied a sickly child of mine, you can bet I'd be organizing a posse with torches and pitchforks.

 

 

 

Of course if it's true that Pa really did build his building out of “free” lumber he “found” on Eliza’s town lot, they may have had a vested interest in avoiding confrontations with the woman.

[Snow Apple]

Maybe this is old news to fans, but I just discovered this website:

http://pioneergirlproject.org/

 

So many interesting tidbits. In one of the posts, there's even a video of some of Laura's possessions including the china jewel box she got at the Christmas party in Plum Grove. It wasn't how I imagined it and it's so interesting and thrilling seeing the real thing.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Snow Apple

[Stargazer3]

I preordered Pioneer Girl from Amazon back in September. The release date was November 20. I've preordered books before and always got an email a day or so before giving me a shipping date. I realized that I hadn't received one yet so tonight I checked my order and it gives a release date of December 12! Does anyone have any information about this change in the release date?

[Snow Apple]

I preordered Pioneer Girl from Amazon back in September. The release date was November 20. I've preordered books before and always got an email a day or so before giving me a shipping date. I realized that I hadn't received one yet so tonight I checked my order and it gives a release date of December 12! Does anyone have any information about this change in the release date?

This is the information from the website I listed above:

 

Dates in November to remember:

13th—Last day to pre-order

14th—Books arrive at the Press warehouse

17th—South Dakota Historical Society Press pre-orders begin to be processed and shipped

20th—Distributor and retail orders begin to be processed and shipped

26th —Projected in-store availability date

 

I don't know why there's been so many changes and confusion for this book. Maybe because it's distributed by a small company? I wonder if Amazon and B&N will change the release date again.

[Stargazer3]

I did contact Amazon and they told me that the release date is now December 12 and that was the new release date by the publisher. So I don't know why it was changed again, but this is the third date change, September 1, November 20, and now December 12. Did anyone order it from the Pioneer Girl website? And did you get confirmation of an actual November 20 release date?

[ElderPrice]

I also preordered the book and also got the notice that the release date is now December 12. :(

[Queena]

I was wondering why I hadn't heard about my pre-order. They've changed the date again. Hopefully for the last time. I can't wait for this book.