S03.E07: Pick Your Poison

[Trini]

As Ryan's family dynamic grows more complicated, she also finds herself in the middle of a Bat Team stand-off between Luke and Mary.

Holly Dale directed the episode written by Kelly Ota and Emily Alonso.

Airdate: 11/24/21

 

 

[Primal Slayer]

What was the whole Wayne subplot of this episode? First they do the ridiculous "Kate can put Ryan in charge of Wayne Enterprises" and now they have Ryan "sign" away the CEO-ship of Wayne Enterprises to her brother....THAT IS NOT HOW ANY OF THAT WORKS. Are the writers even trying? They've really failed this entire storyline that could be somewhat interesting. Ryan has enough to deal with that having to deal with the board members trying to push her out could've been an entire storyline in of itself. But no, they just want to play fast and loose with their storytelling. 

I was also expecting....a GRANDER blossoming of Poison Mary. Not have her reveal herself in a hotel dump. Just like with the Killer Frost storyline, I go back to Angel when they had Fred transition into Illyria and how beautifully tragic that was.

Yet on both shows we cant even get an ounce of that emotion, quality, or power. 

Other than all of that it was...as usual a decent episode :)

[BeautifulFlower]

I hate how Mary was listening to Alice words. I thought she would be smart enough to realize that Alice is practically using her. Anyway, I do like Poison Mary storyline thought. When are we gonna see the real Poison Ivy? There's only 6 episodes left.

I'm sorry, but I don't like this show constantly mentioning "Mary and Alice are sisters." Only in a legal sense because of Jacob's marriage to Catherine. Rememer Catherine? The woman Alice killed? That is something Mary should never forget. You would think Poison Mary would have that on her mind and NOT be with Alice. With this show, it's like they're saying "Oh who cares that Alice killed Mary's mom. They're sisters and need to bond as sisters even though one of them murdered the other's mother."

The writers don't know how CEO's or boar members work. Seriously, the board could've just taken a vote to kick Ryan out of the CEO position. And they would not just accept Marquis as their new CEO.

I do love Poison Mary's look.

I feel the writers are setting up that Lucious is Ryan's father. I got that vibe again this episode with Marquis saying he loved coming to their house. I just want them to rip the band aid off already. Tell us who he is. Or maybe someone ask Caroline and she debunks this theory.

 

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, BeautifulFlower said:

 

I'm sorry, but I don't like this show constantly mentioning "Mary and Alice are sisters." Only in a legal sense because of Jacob's marriage to Catherine. Rememer Catherine? The woman Alice killed? That is something Mary should never forget. You would think Poison Mary would have that on her mind and NOT be with Alice. With this show, it's like they're saying "Oh who cares that Alice killed Mary's mom. They're sisters and need to bond as sisters even though one of them murdered the other's mother."

 

Yeah its weird how they try to force that sisterhood on them. They've known each other for 2 years and it wasn't on the best terms.

They really seem to just have Ryan take over Kates storylines.

Sadistic sibling? Check.

Dramatic love interest w/Sophie? Check 

Batwoman suit? Check 

Wayne Enterprises? Check 

[Trini]

They did their best to justify it, but I'm still not buying that Mary (not Poison Mary) would willingly partner up with Alice and choose her over her friends because... she needs a crime buddy? And yeah, they're barely family. Of course Alice twists any situation to her advantage, but it doesn't make sense from Mary's side. Sure, maybe Ryan and Luke have been sucky friends lately, but they're not anywhere as bad as a psycho who killed your mom in front of you!

I'm still here for Poison Mary, though. However, I wonder how we'll get the real Mary back? I assume that cure won't be an option again.

I actually thought at the beginning of the season they were going to do a redemption arc for Alice; I guess not!

So next we need to explore/explain Marquis, because I still have a lot of questions about him. Usually in Gotham the splashy villains are business people/doctors who go crazy -- seems to be the other way around with Marquis. He wants W.E. for ... fun? I need to know more about his goals. Also he murdered a guy right in the CEO's office where we know there are multiple cameras -- I don't see how they can let him get away with that; Batcave lockout or not.

Man, Luke is getting bold! Didn't expect to try and fight Marquis ... with a torn up arm. Dang - bested by him and Poison Mary. Kind of a bad week for Luke. Although it was cute that he was able to find Mary because of her coffee addiction; I'll take that Hamilfox crumb!

Man, I thought it was dumb the way they made Ryan CEO, but it may be dumber how she lost the position. When Ryan signed the resignation letter, I wasn't worried because that's not how that works. ... But apparently that is how that works! (It's NOT.) Marquis just coming in and declaring himself CEO? I really hope that wherever Bruce and Kate are, there's no coverage of Gotham news.

The (remaining) Bat Team without the Batcave could be interesting. However I'm pretty sure they've shown that there are other ways to get in and out of there besides through the office, so I'm side-eying the lockout a bit.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Trini
dropped word

[Trini]

11 hours ago, BeautifulFlower said:

I feel the writers are setting up that Lucious is Ryan's father. I got that vibe again this episode with Marquis saying he loved coming to their house. I just want them to rip the band aid off already. Tell us who he is. Or maybe someone ask Caroline and she debunks this theory.

I really hope Ryan's father isn't anyone we know, or someone already related to the Bat team/Batman.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Trini
spelling, d'oh!

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

What was the whole Wayne subplot of this episode? First they do the ridiculous "Kate can put Ryan in charge of Wayne Enterprises" and now they have Ryan "sign" away the CEO-ship of Wayne Enterprises to her brother....THAT IS NOT HOW ANY OF THAT WORKS. Are the writers even trying? They've really failed this entire storyline that could be somewhat interesting. Ryan has enough to deal with that having to deal with the board members trying to push her out could've been an entire storyline in of itself. But no, they just want to play fast and loose with their storytelling. 

In fairness to the writers, Marquis just forced Ryan to resign as Wayne CEO, not to transfer the CEO position to him.

I can fanwank that behind the scenes he lined up the board of directors votes to get named the new CEO. Of course, if he had enough votes to be named as new CEO, presumably he would have had the votes to have Ryan fired and to replace her, And then there's the notion that a. Luke literally saw him commit murder and apparently is not going to bring justice for that guard and b. it stretches belief that Ryan could sign that letter sometime close to dawn and by 9 a.m. Marquis could have everything in place so he could have his press conference.

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Trini said:

Man, Luke is getting bold! Didn't expect to try and fight Marquis ... with a torn up arm. Dang - bested by him and Poison Mary. Kind of a bad week for Luke. Although it was cute that he was able to find Mary because of her coffee addiction; I'll take that Hamilfox crumb!

Mary is a literal millionaire/billionaire and bright but she can't resist the lure of getting reward points for her GC Jitters card under her own name. Must be some program. :)

I also wonder: the CC Jitters franchise has drinks named after Flash and his allies. Does GC Jitters have drinks named after Batwoman and the rest of the Bat-fam/Bat-villains?

I anticipate that Poison Mary will use her pheromones to make Luke do some things that the writers think will make shippers happy but in reality would be rapey.

[Josh371982]

Mary teaming up with THE WOMAN WHO KILLED HER MOTHER is as stupid as Evelyn teaming up with Promethus and blaming Oliver for her parents death and Dinah being buddies with Black Siren who killed her husband was on Arrow. It's simply a lazy way for writers to make her a villian and team up with Alice. 

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Mary is a literal millionaire/billionaire and bright but she can't resist the lure of getting reward points for her GC Jitters card under her own name. Must be some program. :)

I also wonder: the CC Jitters franchise has drinks named after Flash and his allies. Does GC Jitters have drinks named after Batwoman and the rest of the Bat-fam/Bat-villains?

I anticipate that Poison Mary will use her pheromones to make Luke do some things that the writers think will make shippers happy but in reality would be rapey.

Her being Poison Mary will be another way they further delay any plans to hook her up with Luke in the future. 

[Trini]

6 hours ago, Josh371982 said:

Her being Poison Mary will be another way they further delay any plans to hook her up with Luke in the future. 

I didn't expect them to be a couple right away (and didn't expect them to make Mary a supervillain!), but yeah this definitely slows things down. 😭

And when they announced the character of Marquis I thought they might pair him and Mary, but not as a supervillain partners! Points to them for unpredictability.

 

15 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

They really seem to just have Ryan take over Kates storylines.

Well, she's the new title lead character; some of that was going to transfer.

But some of that specific stuff wasn't happening until this season; which again is odd because the entirety of Season 2 was introducing Ryan as a new and different Batwoman. I'm guessing the writers wanted this season's villains to be personal to Ryan, but I think they could have done that without copy-pasting.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Trini

[Quark]

Very good episode, I'm really enjoying this season.

[yellowfred]

12 hours ago, Trini said:

Man, I thought it was dumb the way they made Ryan CEO, but it may be dumber how she lost the position. When Ryan signed the resignation letter, I wasn't worried because that's not how that works. ... But apparently that is how that works! (It's NOT.) Marquis just coming in a declaring himself CEO?

Yeah, I feel like a lot the Wayne Enterprise story lines fall apart if you try to apply even the slightest bit of real world knowledge to them.  I guess it's possible that Marquis was already in talks with the board to become the new CEO after the scandal in 3x04.  I think it's more fun, though, to think that Bruce set up Wayne Enterprises with some weird policy about the succession of CEOs and the board just has to go along with it.

[Msample]

So one armed Luke can take on Marquis but Ryan can’t and just rolls over and signs away Wayne Enterprises??

[BeautifulFlower]

3 hours ago, Msample said:

So one armed Luke can take on Marquis but Ryan can’t and just rolls over and signs away Wayne Enterprises??

Well, Marquis had the antidote in his hands. If she attempted to fight him, high chance the vial would've broken which meant no saving Mary.

[thuganomics85]

Honestly, all of the CEO stuff is way more entertaining if you just imagine what Kate and Bruce (if he's still around) are thinking every time this stuff pops up.  Bruce in particular is probably shaking his head and thinking "Idiots!  This is why I work alone!"  I would say this is one of the silliest things to happen in the entire Arrowverse, but even if can't quite touch anytime the shows try to dive into law and especially court trials.

After getting all excited about Poison Mary last week, I have to say that I'm somewhat disappointed in some of the direction: especially Mary being somewhat in control, but still falling for Alice's song and dance.  I guess I can chalk it up to the poison still affecting Mary's mind even when she isn't full Poison Mary, but it was really hard to buy Alice's "We're sisters!" act, and Mary kind of go along with it.  I think it also might have helped if we actually saw more of Mary possibly being aggressively hunted by the law instead of just Alice's word.  Maybe instead of the whole "Cop finds the stolen vehicle and gets run over" bit, they should have had Mary try to reach out to Renee about turning herself in, Renee sends a squad that takes it to far, and that leads to Mary seeing what she's up against and rather risking things with Alice instead.  I don't know: I just think it could have been better.  Nicole Kang is still great as Poison Mary and I'm looking forward to seeing more of her (outfit and all!)

Credit where credit is due: Luke actually put up a decent fight despite being handicapped by his arm.

Nice attempt to be all "Don't judge me for what I do in my bedroom, Ryan!" about your Renee fling, Sophie, but Ryan pretty much nailed it by being all "Well, when your new fling is the woman currently blackmailing me, I think I have a right to a little judgement towards you..."

Marquis is now the new CEO of Wayne Enterprise and doing his best Joker imitation.  Hey, still better than Jared Leto's!

[Lantern7]

"We're here at Wayne Enterprises, which is now under the control of Marquis Jet. The introductory press conference is going to start ten minutes late . . . aides were busy putting up several red flags on either side of the podium. Also, a sign was brought out saying, 'WHY SO SERIOUS?' A moment after that was put up, one aide hastily added more words, making it 'WHY SHOULD BUSINESS BE SO SERIOUS?' Curiously, the original words are still in red . . . and they look to be dripping a little. Well, here's hoping Mr. Jet can afford better markers!"

Heckuva way to end the first half of the season. Team Batwoman is now locked out, with only a few items to fight crime. Marquis beat up his own mother, killed a bunch of people, and now his disturbed ass is a major power player. The "Trophies" are still out there, waiting to cause havoc upon discovery. Oh, and Mary Hamilton is now Poison Freakin' Ivy. Alice is with her, which makes a five-alarm fire slightly worse.

Poison Mary . . . well, at least she ditched Uma Thurman's hair horns from Batman & Robin. Yes, turning one of the better supporting characters into a villain is a risk, but I think it'll pay off. The best/worst thing is that Mary more or less gave it to the dark side (or the Ivy stuff in her blood), getting to a point where any pleas of sanity fell on deaf (vine-covered) ears. The bit with the pheromones on Batwoman? Inspired stuff, and a dirty move from Mary. I'm hoping for a reversion by season's end with few consequences. Yes, I am cheap. I'm sure Nicole Kang can be delightful as a full-on villain, but I like Mary a lot more.

On 11/25/2021 at 10:20 AM, Josh371982 said:

Mary teaming up with THE WOMAN WHO KILLED HER MOTHER is as stupid as Evelyn teaming up with Promethus and blaming Oliver for her parents death and Dinah being buddies with Black Siren who killed her husband was on Arrow. It's simply a lazy way for writers to make her a villian and team up with Alice.

I'm blaming the stuff that turned her. Also, there's no guarantee that Mary wouldn't kill Alice at a moment's notice for what she did to her mother.

I'm still hoping Marquis becomes his own thing and not a Joker-v-whatever. You can understand his position, but he just goes unhinged so quickly.

[janeta]

I'm not sure what the whole blood thing was supposed to do—your average person has about five quarts of blood in them.  What was the three pints supposed to do??

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, janeta said:

I'm not sure what the whole blood thing was supposed to do—your average person has about five quarts of blood in them.  What was the three pints supposed to do??

 

I think we just have to suspend disbelief or forget math so that we can accept the nanobots that are so ubiquitous that Alice could leave her blood on 20 cars and thus give 20 false signals, could be completely flushed from Alice's system and/or that three pints (or whatever) represents a total transfusion.  The average person has 10 pints of blood, give or take a couple,, so the internet tells me. So three pints wouldn't even be replacing half Alice's blood. 

[tennisgurl]

Even by Arrowverse standards the way they have handled Wayne Enterprises this season has been hilariously off on every conceivable level, from Ryan being made CEO to it being super easy for Ryan to step down and Marquis to just take over, its complete nonsense. Sometimes its funny nonsense, especially if you imagine Bruce watching all of this on the news from wherever he is and just shaking his head, but a lot of times its annoying. I really can imagine the board jumping at the chance to get rid of Ryan and put Marquis at the top spot instead, at least he apparently has more experience running a business then Ryan does. Even once he reveals he's the next Joker, they might still prefer him, he still has the better resume. Its Gotham, they're probably used to working for the occasional supervillain. 

I would think that the Bat Cave would have a few more entrances just in case of emergency, be it Gotham Enterprises being under villain attack or just a big press conference. 

Mary and Alice are a great combination but I really find it out of character that Mary would actually buy what Alice is selling her when she is still herself. Yeah Ryan and Luke have been crappy friends, but Alice murdered Mary's mother, I think the people to choose should be obvious. If they wanted Mary to really feel like Alice really was her best option they really should have built it up more, had them on the run from the cops more or have Renee on TV talking about how she needs to lock Poison Mary up and throw away the key, really sell how Mary is feeling super cornered and is maybe losing it a bit, its the only way I can see her staying with Alice while she is still pretty much herself just more angry. 

I do like that Mary was found because of her using her Jitters points, despite being a billionaire socialite, that feels very Mary. I am still liking Poison Mary though, and that costume looks pretty fabulous. I agree with Alice that it needs a better debut then a crappy motel. 

I cant blame Ryan for not being thrilled about Sophie sleeping with the woman who is blackmailing her and has stuck them with Alice. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Trini]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Even by Arrowverse standards the way they have handled Wayne Enterprises this season has been hilariously off on every conceivable level, from Ryan being made CEO to it being super easy for Ryan to step down and Marquis to just take over, its complete nonsense. ...

I know I've said this before, but I would have been fine with it if the CEO position was literally just a title (no actual duties), office space, and an expense account -- set up that way by Bruce so he could be Batman -- but nooo, they have Ryan actually doing press and taking investor calls when her last official job was a bartender - GAAAH!

 

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Even once he reveals he's the next Joker, they might still prefer him, he still has the better resume. Its Gotham, they're probably used to working for the occasional supervillain. 

I mean, last season Roman Sionis was both Black Mask and a beauty tycoon and was pretty successful at both; so it's doable.  😉  I'm curious to see what Marquis' business/villain plans are.

 

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah Ryan and Luke have been crappy friends, but Alice murdered Mary's mother, I think the people to choose should be obvious.

Seriously! At worst, Ryan and Luke have been neglectful lately, but they're still Mary's friends. Alice is definitely NOT her friend, not to mention the fact that the few friends Alice has had she murdered, so yeah, not buying the team up.

[sugarbaker design]

After reading all these posts, I am so glad I am not watching anymore.  It sounds awful.  Mary teaming up with her mother's murderer?

On 11/24/2021 at 10:46 PM, Primal Slayer said:

I go back to Angel when they had Fred transition into Illyria and how beautifully tragic that was.

Such good storytelling.

[Lantern7]

1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

After reading all these posts, I am so glad I am not watching anymore.  It sounds awful.  Mary teaming up with her mother's murderer?

I’m blaming whatever got into Mary’s system. Cut to Alice: “Yeah, so I know there’s a good chance that precious Mary will pause raising hell, start caring about how I killed her mother, and that’ll be a branch down my throat. Until then, I’m just going to enjoy the ride.”

[sugarbaker design]

Just now, Lantern7 said:

I’m blaming whatever got into Mary’s system.

I'm blaming the writers for attempting to turn a murderer many times over into comic relief.