The Shrink Next Door - General Discussion

[chocolatine]

Starring Will Ferrell, Paul Rudd, and Kathryn Hahn; the first three episodes dropped on Apple TV+ this week. It's not the best show ever, but I'm intrigued to see where it's going. Definitely looks like Ike will scam Marty out of all his money and possessions. The Hamptons house that was Ike's in the 2010 flash-forward is the same house that Marty's parents left to him.

I'm a little confused about Marty's family's finances. At first it looked like he inherited a small textile business from his parents and is struggling to keep it profitable. His NYC apartment is pretty modest, and so is his sister's - they don't seem like rich people. (I know today even "modest" NYC apartments cost millions, but I think they were much more affordable in the 80s.) Then we hear that there's a trust fund for emergencies, which means there's some family money, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a huge amount. But then Phyllis breaks into Marty's safe and Marty tells Ike that she stole $500k worth of jewelry, plus that there are two Swiss bank accounts and the Hamptons house. Something doesn't add up there - even if the textile business was more successful when Marty's parents were alive, it probably wouldn't have generated that much profit. I wonder if there's going to be a twist that Marty is scamming Ike, not the other way around. He volunteered all of that information to Ike too quickly. Rich people are usually very private about their finances.

Either way, I hope there's some kind of twist at the end and it's not a predictable scam plot.

[sadie]

It took me to episode 3 to get into it and now I can’t wait to see where this goes. Rudd is playing this perfectly as he actually is helping Marty but with such a subtle evil undertone. Wasn’t sure I would like this but I’m intrigued now how we get to that opening scene where obviously the doctor has taken over the hamptons house and Marty has gone a bit insane. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I had questions while I was watching Episode 3 but I think they were answered by the end of it.

I think that they could have shrunk down (haha) these episodes into 1 movie.  The first two episodes had a lot of filler, or maybe I'm just not good at paying attention.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm having trouble understand what's going on with the money.

Phyllis asks Marty for money, yet she calls it "her" money?  Yet Marty says no to her?

I don't understand any of that.  Can someone explain?  Is Marty controlling their parents' inheritance I guess?

I'm not 100% sure I understand it correctly either, but it seems like the money is in a trust of which both Marty and Phyllis are beneficiaries, and Marty is also the trustee - but Phyllis isn't. Hence he has to approve any withdrawals she wants to make, but not vice versa. There was a mention of Phyllis having had multiple failed business ventures and that their late father favored Marty. He probably didn't trust Phyllis to manage her share of the money, hence this arrangement. That kind of thing is common when one of the beneficiaries is a minor, an addict, or mentally disabled, but not so much when all beneficiaries are healthy and able adults.

It was also mentioned that Marty had bought out Phyllis's share of the Hamptons house, so originally their parents had left it to both of them. I wonder why the jewelry valued at $500k ($1.35M in today's money) was just sitting in Marty's home safe though, unless he bought out Phyllis's share of that, too. If it belonged to both of them, it should have been in a bank safe and only released to anyone with both of their permissions.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Wow, ok, that actually clears up a lot that I didn't catch.  This is the problem with me watching stuff while I work.

[Melina22]

I listened to the podcast a while ago, and have been really looking forward to watching this. I've seen the first three episodes and so far I really like it. 

Paul Rudd is doing a great job of conveying how a person could charm his way into other people's heads and lives. It's distressing to watch him deliberately coming between the brother and sister, since I know from experience that this is exactly how manipulative people operate. 

The scene of them watching Jesus Christ Superstar was terrifying and hilarious. So many candles! So many torches! 😁

[Ms Blue Jay]

This is hard for me to watch.  I don't think people are going to enjoy Will getting scammed of all his money, or at least I'm not.  I like him too much and it's hard for me to separate.  Also I think he just knows how to be very sympathetic here.  

Also, why do all the men have to be with much younger women?  Christina Vidal?  I still see her as the kid in "Life with Mikey".  

Edited November 23, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[TV Diva Queen]

Ugh. I want to like this so much, but I just can stand watching Will Ferrell get scammed (which I’m certain where this is headed). Just starting epi 4 and I had to stop. 

[LADreamr]

This is the first thing I've seen Paul Rudd in, that ever made me hate him.  And Will Ferrell a little bit, too.  I keep wanting to yell at him, "Get a clue and a spine about SOMETHING!!"

[Melina22]

Having heard the podcast, I'm trying not to spoil anything. For me, a big part of enjoying this story is knowing it really happened and trying to figure out why. 

I'm wondering if those of you who aren't enjoying it  maybe got thrown off by the casting, and expected something funnier and less dark. 

Personally, I found the end of the story satisfying, and hope others will too. Even knowing the ending, I'm definitely going to watch till the end. But I'm such a binge-watcher. I hate the wait between episodes. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Melina22

[SheepishAlligator]

I listened to the podcast first too. I'm finding this show helps to explain how this went on for so long a lot better. I think that's also why I'm enjoying it more than most.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm not enjoying this at all.  I don't know if I can make it through.  I wonder if it's 8 episodes or 10.

The acting is obviously good though, because I cannot bear the story.

Edited November 28, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[chocolatine]

The hardest part for me is not Ike scamming Marty out of his money, but manipulating him emotionally about his attachment to his childhood and late parents. No parent-child relationships are perfect, but Marty obviously loved his parents very much, and Ike trying to sully that is the most unforgivable thing to me.

[Milburn Stone]

On 11/15/2021 at 7:29 AM, sadie said:

Rudd is playing this perfectly as he actually is helping Marty but with such a subtle evil undertone.

That to me gets at the greatest thing about the show. There are no villains! Dr. Ike is incredibly manipulative and exploitive--but he is actually helping Marty!!! We can see the difference in Marty, and it's no illusion. As for what's driving Dr. Ike, of course he enjoys the ways he's benefitting from the relationship, but I honestly believe that he honestly believes he's doing what's right for his patient!! (He believes this for reasons having to do with the way he's effed-up, but then who isn't?) Dr. Ike's main problem may not be evil motivation, but that, as his wife has said to him, he has a tendency to "take things too far."

In short: It's complicated.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Milburn Stone

[chocolatine]

On 12/2/2021 at 10:16 AM, Milburn Stone said:

That to me gets at the greatest thing about the show. There are no villains! Dr. Ike is incredibly manipulative and exploitive--but he is actually helping Marty!!! We can see the difference in Marty, and it's no illusion.

I don't think that any of those differences are an improvement for Marty. All he does is seek Ike's approval - for over 20 years now! -  and he doesn't seem happy at all. He's cut off his family, is neglecting his business, spending way more money than he's comfortable, and doesn't have any meaningful relationships. Deep down he knows that Ike is taking advantage of him, but he can't find the courage to assert himself.

I have slightly less sympathy for him now after he's left Miriam at the gas station.

[Melina22]

I think people who weren't enjoying the show before this episode are REALLY going to hate it now. 😁

Despite listening to the podcast I was still blindsided by the ending. Wow! It's like the doctor went from merely selfish and narcissistic to really dark. Marty went from merely deluded about the doctor to almost a cult member. 

2 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I don't think that any of those differences are an improvement for Marty. All he does is seek Ike's approval - for over 20 years now!

I think there was an initial improvement for Marty.. In the opening of the series he was miserable, then started to enjoy life and feel empowered. But a manipulative narcissist /cult leader can do this for people. Eventually though , or sometimes very suddenly, the victim wakes up and realizes they're trapped and desperate to leave. 

I guess I love this show because my life has been profoundly impacted by a series of narcissistic, manipulative people and I recognize them in the doctor. They could all be so charming and fun when they wanted, and then could effortlessly make you feel incredibly guilty for going against them, but eventually the magic wore off and things got bad. So I can identify so strongly with people in the show. 

I'm happy to say that's long behind me now. Once you understand how people like that operate, you see the red flags right away. 

[sadie]

Wow! I’ve lost all sympathy for Marty. Doing that to Miriam was straight up evil. And the fact that he knew it was wrong while doing it only makes it worse. Not sure who I’m rooting for here, Dr Ike is awful, Marty is awful. How does Marty let the Dr put his name on the mailbox and the shaming he gave him for telling someone the house was his just made Marty pathetic. Is all this really a true story? Wow!

[chediavolo]

Dr. Ike is a controlling piece of shit Wanna be Star Fucker but Marty has his issues also. It’s too bad he couldn’t find a cop in the trunk. What he did to Miriam was unforgivable. By the way I tried to watch the scene twice but how did Mariam know to pick up the pay phone? And what did Marty say on his cell phone in the store?

[Milburn Stone]

That was really painful to watch.

For a while there I thought Miriam was going to be Marty's way back to sanity.

I have hope for Marty that he's going to realize what a terrible thing he did. 

It occurred to me to wonder: Is the fabric business still a going concern? In the episode before this one, there were indications that the numbers weren't good, due to a whole bunch of neglect by Marty. So I guess that trust fund was huge enough to fund twenty years worth of nonsense. I don't think we're meant to know just yet, but maybe the final episode will reveal all.

[Melina22]

10 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

For a while there I thought Miriam was going to be Marty's way back to sanity.

Me too. I can't remember if there was a Miriam in the podcast or not. 

11 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

It occurred to me to wonder: Is the fabric business still a going concern? 

A good question. Again, I wondered that too despite listening to the podcast. 

The good news is that all will be resolved, for better or worse, by the end of the series. What I mean is, there is an ending to the story... It doesn't just stop. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Dr. Ike is a controlling piece of shit Wanna be Star Fucker but Marty has his issues also. It’s too bad he couldn’t find a cop in the trunk. What he did to Miriam was unforgivable. By the way I tried to watch the scene twice but how did Mariam know to pick up the pay phone? And what did Marty say on his cell phone in the store?

I think simply because it was ringing.

I think I'm able to watch this show easier now.  No idea why.  Maybe a full week of distance really helped.  

Edited December 4, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[chediavolo]

12 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I think simply because it was ringing.

I think I'm able to watch this show easier now.  No idea why.  Maybe a full week of distance really helped.  

Oh, I did not hear it ringing nor did subtitles say it was. 

[evansmom10]

I'm really glad I found this board, b/c I thought I was the only one who felt so anxious, sick and disturbed watching this, I almost dread when I see a new episode.  Great acting all around. Just a well put together show. 

[chocolatine]

Finally Marty gets a clue! I'm glad that happened before he lost his business.

I know the hospital scenes were supposed to make us feel bad for Marty, but all I could think was "now you know how Miriam must have felt when you left her at the gas station."

Edited December 11, 2021 by chocolatine

[Ms Blue Jay]

This show!

One scene it's the 1990s and the next scene it's so clearly late 2000s early 2010s with a student asking Dr. Ike about Facebook.  And then Marty says he's been devoted to Ike for 30 years?!?!?!?!??!  I had no idea that the show was supposed to represent 30 years.  Then suddenly it's today with Lisa freaking Rinna.

The ending of the episode was sooooooooooooo tense.  I kept rewinding and watching the scenes over and over again because I didn't want to miss anything.  I'm finally seeing the good job they did with the show now.  The acting, woooo..... I wonder if Will Ferrell naysayers will be swayed.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[Melina22]

15 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

The ending of the episode was sooooooooooooo tense.

Yes. I've enjoyed the show all along but this was the first episode I found exciting. I was annoyed when it ended so soon. 

It's fascinating to watch Marty finally start waking up, and to see the jubilation on the coworkers faces at getting through to him after they've spent decades talking to a brick wall.

At the party, I fully expected Marty to discover that all the fish were dead, but I guess just the one was more realistic. Funny how one dead fish fully wakes Marty up. It reminded me of the time, after working for an incredibly narcissistic, manipulative boss for months and not fully understanding what she was doing, it took just one second for me to suddenly wake up. It was a fleeting expression on her face she couldn't manage to mask, and suddenly I knew who she was. I quit two days later. That expression was my koi fish, so to speak. Maybe that's one of the reasons I'm enjoying this show so much. 

I'm never certain what we're supposed to think of the doctor's wife. Is she good? Clueless? Complicit? They're giving us mixed messages. 

This show is doing an excellent job aging everybody. There's nothing worse than actors in terrible old age makeup. With some of the actors, I'm not even sure at this point what age they are IRL. Are they younger but made up to look old? Old but were de-aged in earlier scenes? (Except for Paul Rudd who everyone knows is eternally youthful.) Good job anyway. 

 

[Roxie]

On 12/11/2021 at 3:05 PM, Melina22 said:

I'm never certain what we're supposed to think of the doctor's wife. Is she good? Clueless? Complicit? They're giving us mixed messages.

I agree - it's the one thing I can't figure out.

[ams1001]

On 12/10/2021 at 7:06 PM, chocolatine said:

I know the hospital scenes were supposed to make us feel bad for Marty, but all I could think was "now you know how Miriam must have felt when you left her at the gas station."

I'm not clear on why he left her there, exactly...

I, too, expected all the fish to be dead, and I also wonder about the wife. I guess she knows what her husband is doing, letting everyone think they own the house and all, but she's not happy about it and getting tired of all the parties and schmoozing with celebrities and lies. Probably doesn't know how he's manipulating his other patients. I actually was expecting her to divorce him a long time ago (after the twins were born I thought, this marriage isn't long for this world); guess I was wrong.

I was planning to watch a couple episodes each evening this week since most of my usual stuff is off, but I just watched them all this afternoon/evening while doing laundry and Christmas cards. Now I'm annoyed I have to wait almost a week to see the end.

[chocolatine]

On 12/12/2021 at 5:36 PM, ams1001 said:

I'm not clear on why he left her there, exactly...

Because Ike told him to.

[ams1001]

7 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Because Ike told him to.

Guess I missed that..

[nora1992]

Croquet mallets are versatile!

Phyllis is the best!

Edited December 18, 2021 by nora1992
Too short

[ams1001]

Kois to Men

The Backstreet Kois

The Bee-Gees

[chocolatine]

That was a perfect ending! So well acted by both Will Ferrell and Paul Rudd. Interesting that it took 10 years from when Marty filed his complaint to revoke Ike's license. I wonder how many other people's lives he ruined in the meantime.

[ams1001]

Dr. Ike looked so...small...

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

That was a perfect ending! So well acted by both Will Ferrell and Paul Rudd. Interesting that it took 10 years from when Marty filed his complaint to revoke Ike's license. I wonder how many other people's lives he ruined in the meantime.

I just looked at the podcast episode list and it look like there is one with stories from at least a few of his other patients.

[Milburn Stone]

On 12/11/2021 at 2:05 PM, Melina22 said:

I'm never certain what we're supposed to think of the doctor's wife. Is she good? Clueless? Complicit? They're giving us mixed messages.

They did give us mixed messages, and I think that was 100% intentional (you may agree), because Bonnie is conflicted. To give us a clear idea of her motivations would have been untrue to a character who herself is unclear about her motivations.

She knows what Ike is doing is wrong; she knows Ike is more than a little f*cked up himself; as time goes on she has less and less regard for Ike; but she enjoys the good life in the Hamptons and doesn't want it to end.

In all of this, I found her totally believable. Good performance by Casey Wilson.

(For that matter, Ike himself is a study in mixed messages, appropriately. Is he clear on the fact--abundantly clear to us as time goes on--that he is destroying Marty? No, he is not clear on that in his mind! He actually, sincerely believes he is helping Marty, at the same time that he thoroughly exploits him!)

[Melina22]

27 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

He actually, sincerely believes he is helping Marty, at the same time that he thoroughly exploits him!)

I have to agree with this. I really liked the way that at the very end of the series, the doctor thinks he's the one who's owed an apology. He's the one who's aggrieved. I liked it because in my experience of people like this, this is EXACTLY how they are. You will never convince them that they did anything wrong. 

[EtheltoTillie]

On 12/5/2021 at 11:33 AM, evansmom10 said:

I'm really glad I found this board, b/c I thought I was the only one who felt so anxious, sick and disturbed watching this, I almost dread when I see a new episode.  Great acting all around. Just a well put together show. 

You are not alone. I can’t sit through certain episodes without pausing and going back days later. And I listened to the podcast!  When Ike starts in on one of his manipulative speed he’s and I see the wheels turning, it’s all I can do not to turn it off immediately. It took me three tries to get through episode 6, with the parties. Now I think it will be better sailing with the last two. 

Edited December 26, 2021 by GussieK

[knitorpurl]

On 12/25/2021 at 11:49 AM, Melina22 said:

I have to agree with this. I really liked the way that at the very end of the series, the doctor thinks he's the one who's owed an apology. He's the one who's aggrieved. I liked it because in my experience of people like this, this is EXACTLY how they are. You will never convince them that they did anything wrong. 

Dr Ike was a cult leader of a small, segmented cult. Often a cult leader does truly believe their own spiel because their ego won't allow them to think less of themselves. Most of us can justify our actions, especially once we've gotten away from having accountability for some time. The longer we get away with bad behavior the easier it is for us. 

And Marty's need for help and his desire for acceptance made it even easier to take advantage. Ike called him "Easy Mark Markowitz" as a way to convince him to stand up for himself, but then he ended up being the one to exploit him most.

So glad that Marty was finally able to find his way out.