S05.E02: Growth, Okay?!

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Quote

Despite her now thriving business, Issa struggles to find her footing and turns to an old friend for support. Meanwhile, Molly contemplates jumping back into the dating pool.

Original air date 2021.10.31

[aghst]

Seems like both of them got comfortable not dating but mostly spending a lot of time together since she broke up with Lawrence.

The flashbacks to Molly’s dating history from earlier seasons were good.  She had an epiphany that she was always finding reasons not to be with men?  Yet no way was she going out with Herbert, the guy her mother pushed on her.

So will it finally be a new Molly to match her new haircut?

The fashion show worked out for Issa but not a good thing that the street fashion designer went against what the client wanted.  But is it suppose to mean that her business isn’t going to succeed in the long run?  Or was it just one snapshot which doesn’t mean anything either way?

She’s unhappy about what happened, leans on friend Nathan to drown her sorrows, then it starts to turn into a friends with benefits situation and then she can’t go through with it.

These BFFs each need to find a good man?

[Empress1]

5 hours ago, aghst said:

Yet no way was she going out with Herbert, the guy her mother pushed on her.

“His daddy cute. Show me him!”

5 hours ago, aghst said:

The fashion show worked out for Issa but not a good thing that the street fashion designer went against what the client wanted.  But is it suppose to mean that her business isn’t going to succeed in the long run?  Or was it just one snapshot which doesn’t mean anything either way?

I think it was supposed to show that Issa is going to have to navigate these situations on her own & she’s not sure how to. I also think she’s not used to being successful, and maybe we’ll see her trying to navigate that.

Her assistant cracks me up. “It’s daytime now but it’ll be nighttime later.”

[DearEvette]

So glad Issa and Molly are back-back!

I love Molly's new hair.  That cut looks great o Yvonne Orji.  Also i love how the retrospective of Molly's love life over the last four seasons was also a retrospective of Molly's different hairstyles.

Issa's assistant Sequoia provided two good laughs, first I loved her line: "I had to leave because my roommate and her man be fucking too loud. <pause> my roommate is my mama and her man is my daddy."

And second when she pulled out the metal detector on Molly.  Even more than a year later she has not trust is Molly.  LOL.

I frankly loved that fashion show.  I was getting mad Pyer Moss vibes and lo' and behold I later learned the costume designer did work with Pyer Moss on that. 

So we get a Nathan sighting.  Hmm...  glad to see he is thriving not sure about him and Issa, even though in the past I liked him for her.  Now not so sure.

6 hours ago, aghst said:

The fashion show worked out for Issa but not a good thing that the street fashion designer went against what the client wanted.  But is it suppose to mean that her business isn’t going to succeed in the long run?  Or was it just one snapshot which doesn’t mean anything either way?

I think it is a fairly common occurrence in a business/enterprise where that business has to answer to a person or entity who holds the purse strings.  It is their money so to protect their investment they feel that gives them rights in how that money is being represented and how not to lose money or have anything negative reflect back on them.

I think in Issa's case it an an object lesson that she needs to learn.  In her job she is going to find herself in this position over and over again where the money people are going to want something different than what the creatives have in mind.  I feel that this is Issa Rae-the creator-  speaking a little bit about her experience in the business where Networks often will send notes to  producers making them remove or change  things.  And it is the job of the producer to mediate between the network and the writers to make everyone -- if not completely happy then at least make everything palatable for all involved.  In this case, Issa is new in this situation and she let the creative, Crenshawn go rogue.  Luckily it worked out but it is lessons like this you never forget she will know better how to navigate a situation like this in the future.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Herbert from church Herbert. He reworks trap songs for the Lord. Amen.

How many issues make a bevy of issues? A bevy, of course.

Asian Bae Andrew sighting!

Oy, it's Ralph Angel. You better run, Issa. RA screws up everything.

Crenshawn went rogue like an X-man.

Lol, Nathan said, "Oh. Aight." And then things took a turn. Yikes. I feel like Issa was wrong to try to go there. She knew he was seeing someone and got competitive IMO. Not sure he should've just left like that though. But sigh, that's Nathan.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

4 hours ago, Empress1 said:

“His daddy cute. Show me him!”

I actually did a spit take on that line. Soda all over my shirt.  While Molly is thinking through her relationships, she is still right to not date church guy (not willing to add bae).  They have nothing in common beyond her mother.  Then again, he reworks trap songs for the Lord.  Molly's look said it all.  

One thing I really like about this show is we see the characters growing and changing.  Molly is considering her role in her failed relationships.  Issa is working out how to be successful.  They had to get through hurdles in their own relationship.  They show that life is a series of challenges and changes that we navigate our way through, sometimes well and sometimes not so well. 

38 minutes ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Oy, it's Ralph Angel. You better run, Issa. RA screws up everything.

That was my thought too.  He's an ex-con again too.  However casting Kofi Siriboe as Crenshawn continues this show's standard of having an exceptionally attractive cast.  I wouldn't mind more Kofi on my screen. 

[TooMuchRealityTV]

I really enjoyed seeing Issa be successful in her in new venture. The character has come a long way since We Got Ya'll. I am not all that concerned with who or if she ends up with anyone by the finale. But given her reaction to her almost hookup with Nathan she may have some serious thinking to do. While it was nice to see her be able to be close to Molly again, maybe she's spending too much time with her and not dealing with her own issues. Clearly Issa isn't over Lawrence, and needs to deal with that, so she can either move on or attempt to reconnect with him.

[Empress1]

I liked seeing ol’ Nanceford again.

[tennisgurl]

Issa, I would not count on Ralph Angel to not screw things up, screwing things up for the sake of his ego is kind of his thing. 

I am glad that Molly and Issa are both growing, I especially loved Molly looking back at all of her relationships in flashbacks to see how her high standards have left her alone. I am glad that she is trying to be more self aware, but I don't think "I make trap songs more Jesus-y" is going to be her dream man, even if she is trying to keep more of an open mind. 

I wonder how much of what Issa the character is going through is similar to what Issa the creator has dealt with in her career? I can imagine she has gotten a lot of network notes like what Issa got as she has worked on various projects, and having to balance the artistic side and the commercial side? Issa the character is still really new at this so hopefully this is a good lesson for her about trying to keep everyone as happy as is possible. The fashion show was pretty cool, but I bet the budget sure did get bumped up in record time. 

Issa's assistant is amazing. "Its daytime now, it'll be nighttime later." 

[Hera]

I'm looking forward to seeing Molly's further evolution. She's really trying. It's also nice to be able to root for her and her friendship with Issa. I agree with everyone that Herbert is not the right guy for her (you can't really help it if you're not attracted to someone), but I'm glad she's rethinking her criteria.

9 hours ago, Empress1 said:

14 hours ago, aghst said:

The fashion show worked out for Issa but not a good thing that the street fashion designer went against what the client wanted.  But is it suppose to mean that her business isn’t going to succeed in the long run?  Or was it just one snapshot which doesn’t mean anything either way?

I think it was supposed to show that Issa is going to have to navigate these situations on her own & she’s not sure how to. I also think she’s not used to being successful, and maybe we’ll see her trying to navigate that.

That's how I took it too. My read was that all of Issa's past events involved people who shared similar visions or who were able to come to a consensus. It was simply a matter of Issa connecting the right people to each other and helping with logistics. My take was that this was the first time she had to deal with two sides who couldn't agree on what they wanted and had one side go rogue on her. Fortunately, NBW was happy despite being blindsided, but if I were Issa, I'd refuse to work with Crenshawn again until he learns that taking other people's money means that they get (reasonable) input on what he does. It's not like NBW were demanding changes to his designs—just the presentation. And they were asking him to simplify it instead of adding flourishes that weren't his. I feel like Issa could have tried to negotiate more of a middle ground than she did, but either way, Crenshawn was not in a position to say, "It's my way or the highway." That said, I liked the drums.

8 hours ago, DearEvette said:

So we get a Nathan sighting.  Hmm...  glad to see he is thriving not sure about him and Issa, even though in the past I liked him for her.  Now not so sure.

Same. When Issa and Lawrence were together last season before Condola announced she was pregnant, they made a lot of sense as a couple. It's hard to imagine Nathan riffing on things with Issa the way Lawrence did—he has an intensity that doesn't really match Issa's playfulness. But whoever Issa and Molly end up with (if anyone), I have no doubt, they'll be super-hot. Casting hasn't let us down on that front yet.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Hera said:

I'm looking forward to seeing Molly's further evolution. She's really trying. It's also nice to be able to root for her and her friendship with Issa. I agree with everyone that Herbert is not the right guy for her (you can't really help it if you're not attracted to someone), but I'm glad she's rethinking her criteria.

Oh, even with Molly’s evolution, I don’t think we’re supposed to think she should get with Mr. “I Remix Trap Music for the Lord.” They clearly don’t have anything in common and Molly’s mom wasn’t thinking past “they’re both single.”

1 hour ago, Hera said:

But whoever Issa and Molly end up with (if anyone), I have no doubt, they'll be super-hot. Casting hasn't let us down on that front yet.

I understand why Andrew isn’t around but I really miss looking at him.

[LydiaMoon1]

22 hours ago, DearEvette said:

On 11/1/2021 at 2:51 AM, aghst said:

The fashion show worked out for Issa but not a good thing that the street fashion designer went against what the client wanted.  But is it suppose to mean that her business isn’t going to succeed in the long run?  Or was it just one snapshot which doesn’t mean anything either way?

I think it is a fairly common occurrence in a business/enterprise where that business has to answer to a person or entity who holds the purse strings.  It is their money so to protect their investment they feel that gives them rights in how that money is being represented and how not to lose money or have anything negative reflect back on them.

I think in Issa's case it an an object lesson that she needs to learn.  In her job she is going to find herself in this position over and over again where the money people are going to want something different than what the creatives have in mind.  I feel that this is Issa Rae-the creator-  speaking a little bit about her experience in the business where Networks often will send notes to  producers making them remove or change  things.  And it is the job of the producer to mediate between the network and the writers to make everyone -- if not completely happy then at least make everything palatable for all involved.  In this case, Issa is new in this situation and she let the creative, Crenshawn go rogue.  Luckily it worked out but it is lessons like this you never forget she will know better how to navigate a situation like this in the future.

Yeah, Issa has to make the transition from community organizer to businesswoman. She's still operating like she's organizing a backyard BBQ. It's time for her to stop relying on verbal agreements and the honor system and start signing some contracts. Mr. Passionate Artist needed to be contractually bound (with stipulations included). I'm glad things worked out in her favor this time, but if he goes rogue next time and causes Issa to lose a client or reputation, she needs to have the apparatus in place to sue him for breach of contract.

[Sheenieb]

20 hours ago, Hera said:

That's how I took it too. My read was that all of Issa's past events involved people who shared similar visions or who were able to come to a consensus. It was simply a matter of Issa connecting the right people to each other and helping with logistics. My take was that this was the first time she had to deal with two sides who couldn't agree on what they wanted and had one side go rogue on her. Fortunately, NBW was happy despite being blindsided, but if I were Issa, I'd refuse to work with Crenshawn again until he learns that taking other people's money means that they get (reasonable) input on what he does. It's not like NBW were demanding changes to his designs—just the presentation. And they were asking him to simplify it instead of adding flourishes that weren't his. I feel like Issa could have tried to negotiate more of a middle ground than she did, but either way, Crenshawn was not in a position to say, "It's my way or the highway." That said, I liked the drums.

I wouldn't work with Crenshawn again, either. You can't flip the script at the last minute and then get upset. If he didn't want to compromise his vision, then he should've walked. He put Issa in a tough position. She didn't owe him an apology at all. He owed her one.

Also, I'm confused as to what exactly Issa's job is. Is she an event planner? 

21 hours ago, Hera said:

Same. When Issa and Lawrence were together last season before Condola announced she was pregnant, they made a lot of sense as a couple. It's hard to imagine Nathan riffing on things with Issa the way Lawrence did—he has an intensity that doesn't really match Issa's playfulness. But whoever Issa and Molly end up with (if anyone), I have no doubt, they'll be super-hot. Casting hasn't let us down on that front yet.

I agree with this. Issa and Nathan are better off as friends. He doesn't roll with Issa's awkwardness the way Lawrence does. Yes, to be fair, Lawrence and Issa have history, but I don't see Nanceford and Issa effortlessly bantering.

[DearEvette]

41 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

Also, I'm confused as to what exactly Issa's job is. Is she an event planner? 

Sounds like it but with a community organization bent.  From what I understand the company, called BLOCC (Black Life Opportunities Culture and Connection) works with local talent to raise their profile through public events.  And her company is sets up the event, works with local vendors, and finds the event space and sponsors to underwrite the costs of the event.  So she connects talent with likely sponsors as well as plans the events.  And if the sponsor is big enough they also aid in amplifying the local talent who if they really blow up can become a brand ambassador for the product. 

The sponsors for this was, I think, a designer water company (??)  so they were paying for the event, it works as advertisement for them -- to get an in with the LA black community and the spending power there but also if Crenshawn blows up and becomes famous they can see some profit from that as well.  Which is why the guy was so nervous because at that point Crenshawn was an unknown entity they were willing to gamble on, but not enough that they felt he might negatively impact their brand.

Edited November 2, 2021 by DearEvette

[aghst]

2 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

I agree with this. Issa and Nathan are better off as friends. He doesn't roll with Issa's awkwardness the way Lawrence does. Yes, to be fair, Lawrence and Issa have history, but I don't see Nanceford and Issa effortlessly bantering.

I thought they clicked pretty well when she picked him up in the Lyft a season or two ago.

Then they found ways to hang out, even though he sometimes went back to Houston?

That one time, they snuck into her childhood home and went skinny dipping in broad daylight in the pool.

But it seems to have been a long time since they spent time together, especially romantically.

Issa hasn't dated as many men as Molly has during the run of the show.  She seems more likely to try to go back to her former beaus.

[aghst]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

The sponsors for this was, I think, a designer water company (??)  so they were paying for the event, it works as advertisement for them -- to get an in with the LA black community and the spending power there but also if Crenshawn blows up and becomes famous they can see some profit from that as well.  Which is why the guy was so nervous because at that point Crenshawn was an unknown entity they were willing to gamble on, but not enough that they felt he might negatively impact their brand.

If I'm not mistaken, the water company is owned or headed by the same woman who was one of the alumni on stage at the Stanford reunion episode.

But Issa dealt with some other guy who initially didn't like the show that Crenshawn had planned.  Issa tried to go around this guy to the fellow alumna but she backed her guy.  So Issa then tried to get Crenshawn to cut out some of the things the guy wanted to remove.

But turns out the guy liked all the things Crenshawn did anyways.

 

[MBayGal]

I do not like Molly's new haircut at all. The first scene she was in, I thought she was a man.  I'm wondering if there is significance to that.  Maybe she and Issa will end up as a couple?

[LydiaMoon1]

*shrugs* I love Molly's haircut. It's a huge improvement over the endless parade of obvious wigs. At no time did I think she looks like a man. Not sure how anyone could.

ETA: The outfits in this episode are fire! I also really love Issa's assistant, and her roommate problem was hysterical.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by LydiaMoon1

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

*shrugs* I love Molly's haircut. It's a huge improvement over the endless parade of obvious wigs. At no time did I think she looks like a man. Not sure how anyone could.

+1.

I read Molly doing the big chop as being in line with a fairly common symbolic reasons lots of black women do the big chop.  Our hair is often much more than just hair, so doing something like that can be a signal of creating a major change in life.  It is clear that she is committed to changing how she has approached dating.  Molly's dating life and what expectations she sets on herself and most importantly the men in her life has been a the one part of her life she has never been able to count as a success.  Much like Issa beginning to conquer her professional life this season, I see Molly's realistic examination of her dating as her big triumph this season.

Of topic alert but related: I had read a romance novel called 'Natural Beauty' my Leslie Dubois that uses the main's character hair journey as a metaphor in her changed love life.  It starts off with her having a long weave and she is unhappy with her boyfriend who kinda expects a specific standard of beauty for her.  The chapter headings are all about her hair journey, so it starts off with 'relaxed'  and then comes the 'big chop' where she breaks up with the boyfriend and starts to work her on herself.  And we get chapters like 'protective styles' and 'Bantu knots' where her foray back into dating i(and the guys she meets are tied to her different hairstyles.  it is a cute book and very rom-comish but I liked the use of the hair as a metaphor.

[Empress1]

I actually assumed Molly just stopped wearing wigs and weaves and had her natural hair shaped up, not that her hair was long and relaxed and she’d cut it off. In the Coachella episode she said she was missing a track, and some of her wigs have been pretty obvious (she had a bob one that comes to mind). I love her hair now. She has striking cheekbones and her short hair emphasizes them. 

When I big chopped, looking boyish was a fear of mine so I started wearing dramatic earrings. The fear abated (I do not look boyish; I have an hourglass shape. I can’t really look boyish); the dramatic earrings did not, even though my natural hair has been long for years now. I love my long natural hair but it’s very freeing to cut it all off. Whew, the time I saved! And using just a finger-ful of product? CHILE.

[qtpye]

On 11/4/2021 at 11:58 AM, DearEvette said:

+1.

I read Molly doing the big chop as being in line with a fairly common symbolic reasons lots of black women do the big chop.  Our hair is often much more than just hair, so doing something like that can be a signal of creating a major change in life.  It is clear that she is committed to changing how she has approached dating.  Molly's dating life and what expectations she sets on herself and most importantly the men in her life has been a the one part of her life she has never been able to count as a success.  Much like Issa beginning to conquer her professional life this season, I see Molly's realistic examination of her dating as her big triumph this season.

Of topic alert but related: I had read a romance novel called 'Natural Beauty' my Leslie Dubois that uses the main's character hair journey as a metaphor in her changed love life.  It starts off with her having a long weave and she is unhappy with her boyfriend who kinda expects a specific standard of beauty for her.  The chapter headings are all about her hair journey, so it starts off with 'relaxed'  and then comes the 'big chop' where she breaks up with the boyfriend and starts to work her on herself.  And we get chapters like 'protective styles' and 'Bantu knots' where her foray back into dating i(and the guys she meets are tied to her different hairstyles.  it is a cute book and very rom-comish but I liked the use of the hair as a metaphor.

I saw a movie like this with the unfortunate title of "Nappily Ever After" with Sanaa Lathan.

I agree that the chopped hair is a visual cue that Molly is really trying to make some positive changes.

It is something that I wish I had the courage to do because my hair is a giant pain in the ass.