The Last Duel (2021)

[SeanC]

I watched Ridley Scott's 1977 film debut, The Duellists, the day before seeing this, so that was an obvious thematic companion.  I didn't much like The Duellists, but The Last Duel turns out to be Ridley Scott's best film since at least Matchstick Men, and possibly since Thelma & Louise.

Also the first screenplay collaboration between Ben Affleck and Matt Damon since Good Will Hunting (joined by Nicole Holofcener) -- all three of whom seemed like very unconventional choices for this material, but the result speaks well of stretching outside one's comfort zone. It was originally intended to have Affleck star opposite Damon in the role eventually given to Adam Driver; and while I understand the idea of playing with their onscreen personas in that manner (and think it would be worth revisiting in a future project), I'm glad that it didn't happen now, as for this particular film I think it would have been a distraction.

Kurosawa's Rashomon will be the default reference for cinephiles, but the way that Scott and his screenwriters choose to approach it differs somewhat from that: there are relatively few scenes that fully overlap, often instead emphasizing different moments in the same interaction; and for much of the film's considerable running time I wasn't entirely sure if the actual events were meaningfully distinct in characterization or events, but this becomes very much the case by the time you get to Marguerite's concluding segment. The tripartite approach also yields some unexpected characterization choices; Le Gris, for instance, comes across much worse in his own segment than he does in Jean de Carrouges'. The film also ends with a clear preference for one of the accounts over the other two.

I really wasn't sure what to expect from Affleck in his supporting role, as in the trailers he seemed possibly out of place, but he honestly ends up stealing every scene he's in.  Jodie Comer obviously carries the drama.

Since drama, and especially historical drama, isn't really a thing in theatres anymore, this was destined to be a financial disappointment, but go see it if you're interested in the genre, because it's damn good.

[katha]

As with many Ridley Scott movies, I thought the characters sort of appeared as if seeing them underwater/muted, because he is so focused on staging/spectacle. For me, it usually creates a distance, here as well. Nevertheless, it is a good, well-acted movie. And it is a shame that it looks like a flop at the box office, since that will only reinforce to studios that high-end ambitous productions are not worth it and they should only do superhero and/or franchise movies. Comer does the most with what she's given, both Damon and Driver leave their ego at the door and delve into the true unpleasantness of both these men. And not in an OTT scenery-chewing way, but just everyday cruelty and selfishness. I gotta say, I knew about the rape (and IMO it went on too long and became gratitious, the poor actors having to play that out), but Marguerite's husband basically treating her like damaged goods and then raping her some more to stake his "claim" made me so sad for her. She was truly trapped by all the men around her. 

On a not-so-pleasant note, I wonder why there's been barely any mention of the role Affleck and Damon played during Casey Affleck's campaign and how they dealt with the assault allegations against him. Producing such a script given their own actions there, it could either read as penance or as very self-serving. It's curious that barely any media have touched on this. But then, Damon and Affleck seem very powerful in the industry. 

[lasu]

On 10/17/2021 at 1:01 AM, katha said:

On a not-so-pleasant note, I wonder why there's been barely any mention of the role Affleck and Damon played during Casey Affleck's campaign and how they dealt with the assault allegations against him. Producing such a script given their own actions there, it could either read as penance or as very self-serving. It's curious that barely any media have touched on this. But then, Damon and Affleck seem very powerful in the industry. 

I watched this over the weekend, and first, I just didn't think it was that great of a movie.  I went in knowing nothing about the movie, and left absolutely baffled.  I left and was like, wait...did I just watch a male-centric medieval #metoo movie?  With Ben Affleck and Matt Damon?  Two men who A) absolutely cannot fade into a period piece, and B) the quote above?  I'm not sure I wanted or needed that.  But even if you completely removed those two and put in different actors, I still don't think it would rate more than a B-.  As is, I'm giving it a C.

[raven]

On 10/16/2021 at 11:59 PM, SeanC said:

I'm glad that it didn't happen now, as for this particular film I think it would have been a distraction.

I agree with you here; I watched this last night and I didn't recognize Affleck at first, then thought it was him, then finally looked up the cast. 

I thought this was really well done.  Interesting that the in the Le Gris POV segment, he is still portrayed as an asshole, really.  He believes the rape is consensual sex, but even in his segment, there is no doubt it was rape.    de Carrouges does not come off much better, though it's obvious he believes he is a righteous man. 

Still, the most horrifying thing I've seen on screen this year has been that trial and Jodie Comer absolutely delivers here.  When asked if she enjoys sex with her husband, you KNOW she wants to stand up and scream "NO" but has to say "yes" otherwise she will be branded a liar, whore, etc and lose the case.    Given that there is not much knows about Marguerite, with the trial testimony being the most detailed,  assumptions had to be made about her and why she stood up for herself and I think the movie and Comer are successful in bringing her to life.

It is interesting to watch the expressions on the Queen's face as Marguerite gives testimony and during the duel - she is horrified by what she's hearing. 

The duel is well shot and choreographed but no less brutal.  I already knew the outcome but that didn't make it less tense to watch.

It's a long movie but engrossing if you're looking for drama.  I didn't feel the length of it.  

[AimingforYoko]

Was it me or was Ben Affleck's character the only one in the entire movie who enjoyed themselves?

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

Was it me or was Ben Affleck's character the only one in the entire movie who enjoyed themselves?

Driver's character was having a pretty decent time until the very end.

[Proclone]

On 10/25/2021 at 10:10 AM, lasu said:

I watched this over the weekend, and first, I just didn't think it was that great of a movie.  I went in knowing nothing about the movie, and left absolutely baffled.  I left and was like, wait...did I just watch a male-centric medieval #metoo movie?  With Ben Affleck and Matt Damon?  Two men who A) absolutely cannot fade into a period piece, and B) the quote above?  I'm not sure I wanted or needed that.  But even if you completely removed those two and put in different actors, I still don't think it would rate more than a B-.  As is, I'm giving it a C.

I just watched it on HBO MAX and I have to say I completely agree.  And I'm not sorry I missed it in theaters.  It's well acted to be sure, but I'm not sure what exactly it was trying to say...I could live without another movie about men arguing if a woman lied about being raped.  It doesn't spend enough time from Marguerite's POV to really subvert it being a movie about two men fighting over a woman.  

I'm assuming it was trying to make paralles to how present day sexual assault surviors are treated...But it's basically just saying we really haven't evolved much past the 14th century.  Which is super depressing and the movie doesn't seem to add much in the way of a solution so it just comes off as really dark and not really very satisfying. Maybe that's the point? That watching Le Gris die wasn't at all cathartic, because it only served Jean and not at all Marguerite?

I also disliked the end text assuring the audience that her unpleasant husband died and Marguerite lived happily ever after...As if that makes up for being raped and treated like chattle?  All in all I found it very unsatisfying as a whole.

Also as a side note, I thought both Affleck and Damon looked awful.  I don't know the blonde just doesn't work for him, but I thought Affleck looked ill throughout the film.  I actually thought it might be a plot point that the Count was dying or something, but since it was never brought up I'm going to assume it was just a poor choice.  Damon just looked stupid in a mullet.  I'm sure their was some period appropriate hairstyle other than what they saddled him with that could have worked.

Sure there are external reasons why the movie didn't do well.  It was poorly marketed, and it was released against bigger more anticpated movies.  It had nothing to do with millenials on their cellphones.  But it might have something to do with millenials, gen Z and pretty much everyone else no longer super interested in watching a film about a woman's assualt, where two thirds of it is told from the point of view of men. It bombing was no great loss to cinema.

[Whimsy]

I just watched this on HBO Max as well. I enjoyed it well enough.  I wouldn’t have paid to see it in the theater, but it passed the time on a Saturday evening. 
 

I didn’t mind it being told from all three sides, especially knowing that only the men’s point of view were documented. As sad as it was, that was the whole point. For the men, it really had nothing to do with Marguerite as an actual person. For Jean , she was his property and for Jacques, who knows.  He was entitled and took what he wanted. That’s what it boiled down to. I actually believe he thought it was consensual because he had such an inflated ego and thought so little of women.
 

I know to was hard to feel connected to Marguerite, but that’s because her story was literally unknown. She, as a woman, didn’t actually matter, so they had to make up her side of the story. I’m not saying it was a masterpiece, but I enjoyed it and feel I understood what they were aiming for, story-telling wise. 

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

On 10/17/2021 at 1:01 AM, katha said:

On a not-so-pleasant note, I wonder why there's been barely any mention of the role Affleck and Damon played during Casey Affleck's campaign and how they dealt with the assault allegations against him.

Neither of the women in the litigation over Affleck's film I'm Still Here alleged assault. Just saying.  

[Proclone]

13 hours ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Neither of the women in the litigation over Affleck's film I'm Still Here alleged assault. Just saying.  

Um...yes the did. Neither alleged rape, but the actuations against the younger Affleck range from verbal abuse, to telling a crew member to expose himself to one of the women,  to crawling into bed with the other and touching her inappropriately.  I call that assault. 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/casey-afflecks-dark-secret-the-disturbing-allegations-against-the-oscar-hopeful

[NotMySekrit2Tell]

10 minutes ago, Proclone said:

I call that assault. 

Well, the women who actually had the experiences and brought the suit did not. It was a harassment and breach-of-contract suit, and much of the harassment was from other people on the set...which it is fair to hold Affleck culpable for, as he was the director.

As it was brought up in context of being analogous to the rape storyline of The Last Duel, I'm just cautioning against escalating terms. 

To give another example, I was very disappointed a few years ago to learn of Morgan Freeman's actions toward a number of women who worked with or for him (unwanted touching, inappropriate remarks, lifting up a woman's skirt and asking if she had underwear on). I was/am a fan of his acting, but I believe the women. I also thought Freeman's damage-control statement was awful, and Visa was right to give him the boot as their spokesperson. But I'm not going to claim everyone who still watches The Shawshank Redemption is supporting an actor who "sexually assaulted at least 16 women," because that would be exaggeration.

[Proclone]

3 hours ago, NotMySekrit2Tell said:

Well, the women who actually had the experiences and brought the suit did not. It was a harassment and breach-of-contract suit, and much of the harassment was from other people on the set...which it is fair to hold Affleck culpable for, as he was the director.

As it was brought up in context of being analogous to the rape storyline of The Last Duel, I'm just cautioning against escalating terms. 

To give another example, I was very disappointed a few years ago to learn of Morgan Freeman's actions toward a number of women who worked with or for him (unwanted touching, inappropriate remarks, lifting up a woman's skirt and asking if she had underwear on). I was/am a fan of his acting, but I believe the women. I also thought Freeman's damage-control statement was awful, and Visa was right to give him the boot as their spokesperson. But I'm not going to claim everyone who still watches The Shawshank Redemption is supporting an actor who "sexually assaulted at least 16 women," because that would be exaggeration.

No, saying he assaulted 16 women would be accurate...if you touch someone without their consent, you are assaulting them...in some jurisdictions verbal abuse can count as assault. But that's sort of besides the point. If you can separate art from the artist that's fine. I can do it in general when I don't feel like I'm rewarding the artist.  Watching reruns of Shawshank isn't probably netting Morgan that much. But I wouldn't support new works by him.

But cast in this film (about sexual assault) are two men who are infamous for working with not only the most notorious sexual abuser in Hollywood (Weinstein), but also supported, very prominently, Casey during his Oscar run , after allegations of...use whatever term you want...surfaced.

I'm sorry but that leaves a super sour taste in my mouth about this movie.

[katha]

On 1/16/2022 at 3:26 AM, Whimsy said:

I know to was hard to feel connected to Marguerite, but that’s because her story was literally unknown. She, as a woman, didn’t actually matter, so they had to make up her side of the story. I’m not saying it was a masterpiece, but I enjoyed it and feel I understood what they were aiming for, story-telling wise. 

Yeah, I thought the film created distance towards all the characters through some of Scott's choices, which made it a bit alienating. But the structure made sense, her story needed to be last also to undercut any narrative about Carrouges being a hero for "winning" that brutal, senseless duel. And he totally was a hero in his own mind. Comer showed quite well that while Marguerite was relieved she wouldn't be burned at the stake, she also resigned herself to her continued life with a man who saw and treated her as property. And the way he was so triumphant afterwards becomes off-putting because you see that she knows and is disheartened by the fact that he still does not understand her, has no empathy towards her and does not see her as a person. It's all about his ego and personal victory. 

But it's a grim subject with a downer of an end. I don't quite get how Scott doesn't understand why this didn't become a hit LOL. These are pretty troubled times anyway, perhaps there's limited willingness to also be depressed at the movies. Which is not to say that it shouldn't have been made. It's a good film with strong acting all around, I'm glad I watched it. It's just not really blockbuster fare.

[Scarlett45]

On 1/15/2022 at 8:26 PM, Whimsy said:

I just watched this on HBO Max as well. I enjoyed it well enough.  I wouldn’t have paid to see it in the theater, but it passed the time on a Saturday evening. 
 

I didn’t mind it being told from all three sides, especially knowing that only the men’s point of view were documented. As sad as it was, that was the whole point. For the men, it really had nothing to do with Marguerite as an actual person. For Jean , she was his property and for Jacques, who knows.  He was entitled and took what he wanted. That’s what it boiled down to. I actually believe he thought it was consensual because he had such an inflated ego and thought so little of women.
 

I know to was hard to feel connected to Marguerite, but that’s because her story was literally unknown. She, as a woman, didn’t actually matter, so they had to make up her side of the story. I’m not saying it was a masterpiece, but I enjoyed it and feel I understood what they were aiming for, story-telling wise. 

I am watching it on HBOMax right now and I agree with a lot of your post. I liked Jodie’s performance (I know her from The White Princess- which was drivel, but I liked her, the script was bad). 
 

I saw an ad for this when I was working hybrid this summer, and it seemed like something I would like. I admit I wouldn’t have wanted to watch it if I didn’t know Marguerite survived in the end. What a POS Le Gris was, they trick her to get into her home, she asks him to leave, tells him she’s not interested (even in his own POV,  in what manner did she lead him to believe she was in love with him?????). It was hard to watch her say no over and over- and then he tells her that her husband may kill her! What in the fucking hell? I guess because she was terrified he might break her bones/her jaw, her verbal “no” and RUNNING AWAY (in her own damn house) was not enough. “Utmost resistance” was still on the books in the 20th century.
 

I really can’t imagine what the poor woman went through, no, we haven’t evolved much past the 14th century.

Think about how Marguerite would’ve been treated if she were single?Rape was a property crime again the woman’s male guardian, so it would be up to him what would happen to her. 
 

Edited to add: I liked that Jean’s mother (I recognized her from the Spanish Princess) brought up rank. Although they were landed women they were still women- they are still properly. Also I thought about how Jean’s mother demonstrated that women are instructed to keep quiet about assault against them to protect their male loved ones. (Or their kids) Again it’s never about the actual victim but how this effects the men in her life. Of course I don’t blame any woman for doing what they have to do to survive. 

On 1/14/2022 at 10:40 PM, Proclone said:

Also as a side note, I thought both Affleck and Damon looked awful.  I don't know the blonde just doesn't work for him, but I thought Affleck looked ill throughout the film.  I actually thought it might be a plot point that the Count was dying or something, but since it was never brought up I'm going to assume it was just a poor choice.  Damon just looked stupid in a mullet.  I'm sure their was some period appropriate hairstyle other than what they saddled him with that could have worked.

I agree with this on the shallow bus. Adam Driver looked good, but Matt Damon and Ben Affleck looked atrocious and they are supposed to be men of means.  

[rmontro]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:16 AM, raven said:

Interesting that the in the Le Gris POV segment, he is still portrayed as an asshole, really.  He believes the rape is consensual sex, but even in his segment, there is no doubt it was rape. 

I'm not entirely sure about that.  There was a good deal of paralleling with the earlier incident where Le Gris is chasing the girl around the table and she is laughing and protesting.  That incident was apparently playful, this was not.  I watched with the closed captioning on, and Marguerite's cries were interpreted as "chuckling".  So perhaps in Le Gris' mind, it really was not rape. 

I thought the movie was very good, more than worth the watch.  Also interesting were the juvenile smirks on the king's face throughout the drama.  Reminded me a bit of King Joffrey from Game of Thrones. 

[katha]

On 2/13/2022 at 5:32 PM, rmontro said:

I'm not entirely sure about that.  There was a good deal of paralleling with the earlier incident where Le Gris is chasing the girl around the table and she is laughing and protesting.  That incident was apparently playful, this was not.  I watched with the closed captioning on, and Marguerite's cries were interpreted as "chuckling".  So perhaps in Le Gris' mind, it really was not rape. 

I thought the movie was very good, more than worth the watch.  Also interesting were the juvenile smirks on the king's face throughout the drama.  Reminded me a bit of King Joffrey from Game of Thrones. 

Yeah, that's how I interpreted it as well. Le Gris is such an entitled narcissist who thinks that all women must adore him that he just can't grasp that someone wouldn't. He's convinced himself that he's in love with Marguerite and so she must be in love with him as well and in his mind her refusal is just for show because she is a married lady. It's a supremely warped world view, but the tragedy the movie depicts is that no one treats Marguerite as a human being or sees/hears her. See also her husband making her rape all about himself and his "damaged property." Ugh. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by katha

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, katha said:

the tragedy the movie depicts is that no one treats Marguerite as a human being or sees/hears her. See also her husband making her rape all about himself and his "damaged property." Ugh. 

The movie (and the story) was a tragedy for all three of them in some way or other.  I wonder if Carrouges would have gone to the extent he did if it had been someone other than Le Gris who had raped Marguerite?  He seemed to be just as enraged that it was his old rival getting another one over on him, as he was concerned about his wife.  I almost doubt it, but he didn't seem to be the type to let any slight to his honor pass.

[Scarlett45]

On 2/13/2022 at 10:32 AM, rmontro said:

I'm not entirely sure about that.  There was a good deal of paralleling with the earlier incident where Le Gris is chasing the girl around the table and she is laughing and protesting.  That incident was apparently playful, this was not.  I watched with the closed captioning on, and Marguerite's cries were interpreted as "chuckling".  So perhaps in Le Gris' mind, it really was not rape. 

I thought the movie was very good, more than worth the watch.  Also interesting were the juvenile smirks on the king's face throughout the drama.  Reminded me a bit of King Joffrey from Game of Thrones. 

I think the viewer (who’s coming to this film with hopefully more enlightened eyes) was supposed to see the parallel but still see the significant difference between the woman who was running around the table laughing, and Marguerite who was not laughing, not smiling, not “teasing”. I am sure many of us have been in social situations where we are teasing a loved one and it’s all fun & games. Le Gris wasn’t paying attention to her and what she wanted because you’re right he’s a narcissist, it was NEVER about her. Same reasoning to rapists now who say “why did she get in the car/invite me in?” Etc etc. But for the viewer there was NO ambiguity. Marguerite said “no”, over and over, ran away, and was purely terrified of him. 

[rmontro]

45 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think the viewer (who’s coming to this film with hopefully more enlightened eyes) was supposed to see the parallel but still see the significant difference between the woman who was running around the table laughing, and Marguerite who was not laughing, not smiling, not “teasing”. 

I'm not trying to argue that it wasn't rape, I'm just saying Le Gris may not have seen it that way, narcissist that he was.

[Scarlett45]

28 minutes ago, rmontro said:

I'm not trying to argue that it wasn't rape, I'm just saying Le Gris may not have seen it that way, narcissist that he was.

I understand! I didn’t think you were, i was agreeing with you- we were supposed to see that Le Gris was the one that was messed up if he really didn’t see how frightened and scared she was. 

[blackwing]

I am usually a sucker for anything historical, especially medieval... but I thought this movie absolutely sucked the wazoo.  Jodie Comer was the only saving grace about it.  The story was awful and boring.  Ben Affleck was ridiculous with his bleached blond boy band hair and terrible accent.  Matt Damon was terrible.  I have never understood the hype about Adam Driver and his ugly face and Tresemme hair and did not like him here either.

On 1/14/2022 at 10:40 PM, Proclone said:

I also disliked the end text assuring the audience that her unpleasant husband died and Marguerite lived happily ever after...As if that makes up for being raped and treated like chattle?  All in all I found it very unsatisfying as a whole.

Also as a side note, I thought both Affleck and Damon looked awful.  I don't know the blonde just doesn't work for him, but I thought Affleck looked ill throughout the film.  I actually thought it might be a plot point that the Count was dying or something, but since it was never brought up I'm going to assume it was just a poor choice.  Damon just looked stupid in a mullet.  I'm sure their was some period appropriate hairstyle other than what they saddled him with that could have worked.

This.  She got raped and treated poorly, but hey, it's all good because he died and she lived for years and years afterwards?

And yes, both Affleck and Damon looked terrible.  I completely agree about Affleck's look throughout the movie... it's like each day he reported to the set he had decided whether today he was going to portray "constipated", "pointy stick up my butt" or "dying of consumption".

[Hanahope]

I honestly cannot imagine that in the 14th century any consideration was given whatsoever to women's pleasure, or that most men even considered that women could have orgasms.  but i can imagine that if they knew about it, they assumed women had them 'all the time.'

That said, i also find it surprising that Marguerite did tell about it.  the mother was right that women back then just shut up and went on with their lives, because there was no 'crime' against the women, it was against the man's 'property.' 

I almost wondered if the mother set up the situation.  awfully convenient that Le Gris shows up the one day the mother goes on "errands" and takes the entire household staff.  and then i thought, if they had been married for 5 years and no pregnancy (no mention even of miscarriage), maybe the mother knew Jean was infertile and that his prior wife got pregnant by another, so she needed Marguerite to do the same.

Edited February 26, 2022 by Hanahope

[SeanC]

10 hours ago, Hanahope said:

I honestly cannot imagine that in the 14th century any consideration was given whatsoever to women's pleasure, or that most men even considered that women could have orgasms.  but i can imagine that if they knew about it, they assumed women had them 'all the time.'

The film's presentation is accurate to medieval understanding of biology -- not only did they know about orgasms, it was assumed that they were essential to procreation.

[Hanahope]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

The film's presentation is accurate to medieval understanding of biology -- not only did they know about orgasms, it was assumed that they were essential to procreation.

heh, well since we all know they aren't, i expect a large majority of women lied about it, and most men had no idea how to give a woman an orgasm.  

[millennium]

I enjoyed this film because it reminded me of a time not so long ago when there existed different genres of movies -- historical, western, romance, comedy, drama, fantasy, etc.   Not just comic book movies.

The characters were interesting, the actors more than capable, the production top notch.  I had never heard the true story, so I had the added pleasure of reading about it afterwards.

 

[ruby24]

On 3/14/2022 at 9:51 PM, millennium said:

I enjoyed this film because it reminded me of a time not so long ago when there existed different genres of movies -- historical, western, romance, comedy, drama, fantasy, etc.   Not just comic book movies.

 

Thank you for saying this. I completely agree. The movie felt like a throwback to the days when there were, you know, a variety of movies out there.

[katha]

Yeah, in that sense it is a real pity that Disney dumped the movie basically, the promo was bad/nonexistent and it was such a flop (came out in a very competitive weekend and had bad advertising plus difficult subject matter). It only reinforces for the studios that they should only spend money on franchises, basically.

This is not a low-budget Netflix/Amazon for-streaming thing, it's an old-fashioned event movie. The big budget was needed for the setting and it's best suited for the big screen (the duel is practically made for cinema IMO). And in general it's a pity that film-making like that is dying. So in that sense I understand Scott's frustration, but he's aiming it at the wrong crowd. It's a structural problem within the industry.

[Scarlett45]

One of my favorite podcasters did an episode about this a while ago- I realized I had not shared with you guys. Trail by Combat (Noble Blood).

 

On 2/25/2022 at 10:54 PM, Hanahope said:

I almost wondered if the mother set up the situation.  awfully convenient that Le Gris shows up the one day the mother goes on "errands" and takes the entire household staff.  and then i thought, if they had been married for 5 years and no pregnancy (no mention even of miscarriage), maybe the mother knew Jean was infertile and that his prior wife got pregnant by another, so she needed Marguerite to do the same.

I don’t think the mother would do that. 1. If anyone found out her daughter in law would be ruined and her son would be publicly embarrassed (which is what happened- hence the duel), 2. If she was going to do that, getting her daughter in law to have sex with a gentleman who worked on the estate would’ve been much simpler than staging a rape. 3. If Marguerite had gotten a few good licks in and seriously injured or killed Le Gris, in self defense that’s another mess. 
 

I think it’s more likely Le Gris saw an opportunity to “have” a woman he wanted and insult his rival and took it.