Book 5: The Fiery Cross

[Nire]

I just finished FC.  I feel like with all the Outlander books there are parts that I really love and parts I force myself through.  I felt like this book had fewer parts that I loved than the other ones in the series.  Possibly because there wasn't anything I just couldn't wait to read in this one.  In DoA I was so excited for Bree to meet Jamie and in Voyager it was Jamie and Claire's reunion.  I also think I'm odd in that I enjoyed scenes set in more modern times.  I also missed Fergus because he seemed to be barely there.  

I didn't mind the breastfeeding and diaper focus of this book.  I have three young children and one is still nursing so Bree's struggle with engorgement felt real to me.  Better than books and shows where a nursing mother is away from her baby without issues.

 I'm going to start the next book soon.  I hope that I like it better.  It's shorter so at least it'll be a "quicker" read.

[DittyDotDot]

9 hours ago, Nire said:

I just finished FC.  I feel like with all the Outlander books there are parts that I really love and parts I force myself through.

I think that's probably a very fair assessment of the whole series. Sometimes Diana will write something that really engages me and other times I'm sitting there wondering why I keep reading them. I think the good wins out in the end, but some books it's harder to tell than others. 

9 hours ago, Nire said:

I also missed Fergus because he seemed to be barely there.

I missed Fergus as well! 

9 hours ago, Nire said:

I also think I'm odd in that I enjoyed scenes set in more modern times.

I like them too. They provide a nice balance and remind us of the time travel aspect. I will say there is more of the modern times to come...I won't tell you when or why, though. ;)

[lianau]

I think Fiery Cross is a book that's becomes better when your read it a second or third time . You're  not trying to find out where you're going anymore   so you can enjoy the scenery .

[FnkyChkn34]

And this is where I'm stuck...

I read the first three books very fast, between seasons 1 and 2.  Book 4 was more of a slog, and now I'm just stuck in the mud.  I put Book 5 down last fall and have yet to pick it up again.  I got through the longest day ever with minimal complaints, actually, but then just lost interest.  The first books had adventure and fun, this one just has annoying Brianna.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

And this is where I'm stuck...

I read the first three books very fast, between seasons 1 and 2.  Book 4 was more of a slog, and now I'm just stuck in the mud.  I put Book 5 down last fall and have yet to pick it up again.  I got through the longest day ever with minimal complaints, actually, but then just lost interest.  The first books had adventure and fun, this one just has annoying Brianna.

Yeah, book 5 is by far my least favorite. I had heard that was true from other people I know who read these books. So, I just had to power through it and I wouldn't let myself put it down and read something else. 2nd least favorite is the 7th book I think. If you can get through it, I think books 6 and 8 are pretty good and book 7 has a bit that impacts later books.

It's been awhile since I've read it, but I wonder if you would miss much if you just tried with book 6 and continued on from there? I don't know. I can think of 1 thing that happens in book 5 to a character that really affects them going forward, but that's all I can come up with right now.

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, Rilla-my-Rilla said:

It's been awhile since I've read it, but I wonder if you would miss much if you just tried with book 6 and continued on from there? I don't know. I can think of 1 thing that happens in book 5 to a character that really affects them going forward, but that's all I can come up with right now.

Roger is the only one I can think of off the top of my head who has a big event that carries over. Although, the general plot of the book carries over into the next book, doesn't it? I bet you could probably catch on though.

5 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

And this is where I'm stuck...

I read the first three books very fast, between seasons 1 and 2.  Book 4 was more of a slog, and now I'm just stuck in the mud.  I put Book 5 down last fall and have yet to pick it up again.  I got through the longest day ever with minimal complaints, actually, but then just lost interest.  The first books had adventure and fun, this one just has annoying Brianna.

That's funny, I don't even remember Briana taking up much room in this book; I generally think of this one as Roger's book, more than anything. I think if you can get past the second wedding this book seems to pick up in the last third quite a bit as I recall. Actually, in general, I think book 4 and on seem to lag and meander through the first thirds of them--they usually have some very nice character beats, though--and then the plot threads start to come together and the action picks up more.

[Rilla-my-Rilla]

23 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Roger is the only one I can think of off the top of my head who has a big event that carries over. Although, the general plot of the book carries over into the next book, doesn't it? I bet you could probably catch on though.

Yep, that's who I was thinking of too.

[FnkyChkn34]

On 8/22/2017 at 7:40 PM, Rilla-my-Rilla said:

Yeah, book 5 is by far my least favorite. I had heard that was true from other people I know who read these books. So, I just had to power through it and I wouldn't let myself put it down and read something else. 2nd least favorite is the 7th book I think. If you can get through it, I think books 6 and 8 are pretty good and book 7 has a bit that impacts later books.

It's been awhile since I've read it, but I wonder if you would miss much if you just tried with book 6 and continued on from there? I don't know. I can think of 1 thing that happens in book 5 to a character that really affects them going forward, but that's all I can come up with right now.

 

On 8/22/2017 at 10:34 PM, DittyDotDot said:

Roger is the only one I can think of off the top of my head who has a big event that carries over. Although, the general plot of the book carries over into the next book, doesn't it? I bet you could probably catch on though.

That's funny, I don't even remember Briana taking up much room in this book; I generally think of this one as Roger's book, more than anything. I think if you can get past the second wedding this book seems to pick up in the last third quite a bit as I recall. Actually, in general, I think book 4 and on seem to lag and meander through the first thirds of them--they usually have some very nice character beats, though--and then the plot threads start to come together and the action picks up more.

Thanks!  I'm thinking that I'll just have to skim it.  I've never been one to read a book that way because I'm always afraid I'll miss something good, but I think this is the book to do it.  I read a synopsis somewhere a while ago, and there are parts that look interesting; I just haven't gotten there yet.  And I got bored trying to get there. :-)  

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

 

Thanks!  I'm thinking that I'll just have to skim it.  I've never been one to read a book that way because I'm always afraid I'll miss something good, but I think this is the book to do it.  I read a synopsis somewhere a while ago, and there are parts that look interesting; I just haven't gotten there yet.  And I got bored trying to get there. :-)  

Yeah, I think you could probably skim a lot of these books. Sometimes Diana just drones on and on and on for pages about something that could be done in just one. There are also a lot of random character beats--which I happen to love--but if you're more interested in the adventure and the overall plot, most of those could be skipped or skimmed.

Good luck!

[ruby24]

I just finished this book and something really's starting to bother me. I can't believe how little Claire, Roger or Brianna care or are bothered at all by slavery. There are parts where they seem to like it? In this book, there's actually a passage where Brianna is thinking that slavery isn't really that bad and Jocasta's slaves live better lives than poor white people, and I almost did a double take, thinking wtf did I just read? 

These are supposed to be people from the modern day (okay, the 60s/70s but come on) and Brianna is an American who studied history. There were parts in Book 4 where both Claire and Bree seemed to like being waited on, and now I can't help but wonder if it's some kind of fantasy of DG to live as a rich white plantation mistress or something. It's really creeping me out. 

There was also a part in this one where Claire goes on about how men are far more logical than women and she prefers their company any day, and I couldn't help but raise my eyebrows and think, yeah, remember that the next time they're trying to rape you, Claire.

Does Claire never have any moment in the series where she actually considers how she can only even contemplate choosing to live in this time because she's a white lady with a husband?

Edited January 29, 2018 by ruby24

[toolazy]

While it's true that none of the Frasers do anything to advance abolitionist causes (100 years before the civil war), it's also true that they hate slavery.  Both the Frasers & the McKenzies separately rejected Jocasta's fortune because it came with slaves and they couldn't get mellow with the idea of being slave owners.  The slave that Claire bought to save his life was freed at the first opportunity and there are at least two other instances of them helping out runaway or freed slaves.  So I'm going to guess that no, they don't think that's it's okay.  

Did they accept the services of Jocasta's slaves?  Yes, they did, the same way they would have accepted the services of household servants on any rich estate.  Did they think that Jocasta's slaves were treated better than other slaves? Yes, they did because they were.  And yet, that didn't make it alright with any of them.  Either Claire or Bree (I can't recall which) empty their own chamberpots because they don't want slaves doing that for them.  

Remember that Jamie has a particular aversion to slavery because he was himself basically a slave at Helwater.  

I doubt very seriously that DG harbors any sort of white plantation owner fantasies but she does have a knack for covering complicated situations in a way that really irritates people in the 21st century. 

[Cdh20]

I am on chapter 90 & I like that Roger is talking about watching Jamie & Claire because that is the marriage he wishes to have! It's interesting because we are often talking about (on the show) how Roger & Bree don't have the marriage (or chemistry ) that Jamie & Claire have, but here he is confirming that!

[SassAndSnacks]

13 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

I am on chapter 90 & I like that Roger is talking about watching Jamie & Claire because that is the marriage he wishes to have! It's interesting because we are often talking about (on the show) how Roger & Bree don't have the marriage (or chemistry ) that Jamie & Claire have, but here he is confirming that!

I wish I could like this comment 50 times.  I've realized during this last read-through of mine (currently on Book 4) that B&R just don't have that chemistry.  They aren't Jamie and Claire, which is fine, but I can't get into them being together.  

[SassAndSnacks]

So, I started my third pass on this one (see previous book threads for background) on Sunday.  I've never paid much attention to the Prologues before, but I saw an interview with Ron Moore awhile ago where he mentioned really enjoying the prologues and using them as narrative in the shows, therefore, on this series read through, I reading them closely.  And wow, the prologue for this book means so much more now, having seen the Season 5 Finale.  I love that I could hear the Jamie voice with it as I read it.  Chills. 

Also, the Longest Day Ever is truly the longest freaking day ever.  I'm enjoying it immensely, but I've been reading for 5 days, twice a day, and Claire still hasn't gotten her period, Roger hasn't yet told off Jocasta, Jamie still needs to confess to his carnal visions of Claire bent over the butter churner to the priest, Jocasta hasn't been spooked by the mysterious person, Jamie hasn't called anyone to stand by his side, and no one has been baptized and/or married yet.  And I'm 10% of the way through the book.  Longest Day Ever.

[SassAndSnacks]

Ok!  

1. I just really miss posting on this forum, and I'm bored, and I can't concentrate on my actual work today, and we're back to near lock-down restrictions in my part of the U.S. Sigh...

2. I just finished this book last night, finally.  I read it word-for-word, as in every word.  I diligently followed my No Skipping, No Skimming rule for this one (unlike Book 4), and PHEW!  There were a lot of words, like 980 pages of them, according to my Kindle.  

3. I love this book.  I know some people can't get past the 100+ pages of the Gathering (and I can completely empathize with that.  I mean, do we need the discussion on tomatoes in BBQ sauce?  I'm from the North, so I think not, but maybe Southerners and Mid-Westerners feel differently?)

4. I love this book!  Roger completely wins me over in this one (aside from kissing Morag).  His hanging, gah, so well written, so harrowing.  Even though I've read it before and I clearly know what happens, I devoured those chapters, heart-racing and frantic reading.  

5. I love this book!  IAN!!!!!!!  I could probably just stop there, but IAN!!!!!  Admittedly, John Bell is not who I pictured to play Ian, but now, any time I read about Ian, I see John Bell.  Interestingly (well, I think so anyway), he's the only character that I picture as the actor portraying him.  When I read about Claire, Jamie, Bree, etc., I still see them as I originally saw them and not as who plays them.  Also, I'd like to restart my #IanDeservesBetter campaign, uniting us in dismay over who he eventually marries.  But, maybe we'll save that until after I re-read Book 8 again.  Maybe she'll grow on me...unlikely.

6. I love this book!!  The introduction of the Jacobite gold is so good.  Those MacKenzies, sly as foxes. 

Spoiler

Love this layer of mystery setting a plot point for the remaining books.  

7. I love this book!!!  So much Jamie and Claire. (Cue Hallelujah chorus.)  Where to even begin on how wonderful their moments are in this book?  Stream of consciousness:

• Jamie calling Claire "Sorcha."
• The discussion in Brownsville over whether or not they should keep the Beardsley baby, with Jamie telling Claire that he has "bairns a'plenty but I only have one you."  The show did such an amazing adaptation of that scene.  
• Jocasta's wedding.  Seriously, I need to go to a wedding like that (you know, minus the murder and intrigue).  The barn sex, my goodness.  If I praised the show above, I need to criticize it here.  Blah.  No good.  Not a good job at adapting that one for the show.  
• Jamie's snakebite.  I need to sit and process the words.  I had mentioned in this episode thread that I have a completely irrational and mortal fear of snakes.  I read this chapter the same night that my parents sent me a picture of a rattlesnake they found in their yard, so yes, I had nightmares about snakes in my bed.  Thanks Mom, Dad, and DG!  Anyway, I love this section of the series so much because it reiterates how remarkable JAMMF is.  From him choosing to die and then Claire bringing him back, to him weeping after she injects him using the snake fang, it really runs the gamut of Jamie's character traits.  

8. Things I didn't love in this book - Stephen Bonnet again and again and again. The introduction of the Christies, bah.  Freaking, bah! Hosebeast shagging someone back in Scotland and Jamie's reaction to it.  Very human, I'll grant that, but I didn't like hearing about it.  

Now that I'm over halfway through in my re-read, here's my definitive ranking of the books in the series (I know, I know, cutting edge material here that everyone cares about...)

1. Outlander (Book 1)

2. Written in My Own Heart's Blood (Book 8 ) 

3. Fiery Cross (Book 5)

4. A Breath of Snow and Ashes (Book 6)

5. Voyager (Book 3)

6. Drums of Autumn (Book 4)

7. Dragonfly in Amber (Book 2)

8. An Echo in the Bone (Book 7)

 

Edited July 28, 2020 by SassAndSnacks

[Cdh20]

Awe, SassandSnacks I loved your review. What I didn’t love was the book. I finished it about 1 month ago. If I wasn’t in love with TvJamie I probably wouldn’t have read past DIA. What I agree with   Wholeheartedly is the adaptation of the keeping the baby discussion- spot on, I love it. And Jocasta’s wedding adaptation - the show totally lost the vibe on that one! 

 

Granted in these crazy times, I had trouble concentrating on reading, & preferred watching anything. And it would be funner if people here liked to chat more about Outlander during Droughtlander ( because that is going to be sooooooo long). 

Edited July 28, 2020 by Cdh20
Added a thought

[SassAndSnacks]

1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

Awe, SassandSnacks I loved your review. What I didn’t love was the book. I finished it about 1 month ago. If I wasn’t in love with TvJamie I probably wouldn’t have read past DIA.

Yaaaaaaay!!!!!!  I'm so happy to hear from you and hope you are well!

I'm sorry you didn't love the book.  It's a tough one, to be sure.  These last several books are bogged down with so much minutiae that I can completely understand why people don't proceed with them.  Admittedly, I get frustrated with them, too and end up facepalming an awful lot.  Laird Jamie keeps me going.  And I admire Claire's tenacity and compassion so much.  

I think the show does a really good job of streamlining the secondary and tertiary characters, condensing storylines, and streamlining the books in general.  We miss a bit of the brilliant dialogue, particularly between Jamie and Claire, but the show weeds out a lot of the inane.  

I also agree with it being hard to concentrate on reading.  I find it hard to concentrate on just about anything, which is actually why I started going back through all of these books.  Escapism.  Instead of worrying about if and how schools will reopen, I analyze the validity of how Claire (re?)creates penicillin, or if meat and dairy products would really keep THAT long in a spring house, or how quickly some packages were delivered to the Ridge from other locations.  

Why don't people post more during Droughtlander?!  Seriously, I could talk about any number of other Outlander-related topics to fill the void.  Do they have lives?!  Hobbies?  OTHER interests?! 

[Cdh20]

6 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Yaaaaaaay!!!!!!  I'm so happy to hear from you and hope you are well!

I'm sorry you didn't love the book.  It's a tough one, to be sure.  These last several books are bogged down with so much minutiae that I can completely understand why people don't proceed with them.  Admittedly, I get frustrated with them, too and end up facepalming an awful lot.  Laird Jamie keeps me going.  And I admire Claire's tenacity and compassion so much.  

I think the show does a really good job of streamlining the secondary and tertiary characters, condensing storylines, and streamlining the books in general.  We miss a bit of the brilliant dialogue, particularly between Jamie and Claire, but the show weeds out a lot of the inane.  

I also agree with it being hard to concentrate on reading.  I find it hard to concentrate on just about anything, which is actually why I started going back through all of these books.  Escapism.  Instead of worrying about if and how schools will reopen, I analyze the validity of how Claire (re?)creates penicillin, or if meat and dairy products would really keep THAT long in a spring house, or how quickly some packages were delivered to the Ridge from other locations.  

Why don't people post more during Droughtlander?!  Seriously, I could talk about any number of other Outlander-related topics to fill the void.  Do they have lives?!  Hobbies?  OTHER interests?! 

It’s only you & I that want to talk about it everyday! Haha! It is the minutiae as you say that doesn’t interest me. I love that Jamie & Claire get to live happily on the Ridge, but I cannot say I care about all the random other people that are mentioned. I need a little more action, I assume that might be coming up in future books?

[SassAndSnacks]

10 hours ago, Cdh20 said:

It’s only you & I that want to talk about it everyday! Haha! It is the minutiae as you say that doesn’t interest me. I love that Jamie & Claire get to live happily on the Ridge, but I cannot say I care about all the random other people that are mentioned. I need a little more action, I assume that might be coming up in future books?

Why is no one talking about the Emmy snubs today? Did the committee not see the season finale because there is clearly an egregious error.

Yes!  More action coming up.  We've got the Revolution in full swing!

[Cdh20]

On 7/27/2020 at 9:11 AM, SassAndSnacks said:

 

 I can't concentrate on my actual work today, and we're back to near lock-down restrictions in my part of the U.S. Sigh...

  

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I do hope you & your family are well too!!! Are you till working at home?

 I intend to start the next book, and read at least until the parts that were included in season 5.  It's too nice out to be inside right now so a book in the yard is a good idea! 

[Cdh20]

15 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Why is no one talking about the Emmy snubs today? Did the committee not see the season finale because there is clearly an egregious error.

Yes!  More action coming up.  We've got the Revolution in full swing!

They are never getting Emmies (Emmys)! But I still think it's unparalleled award winning acting from Sam & Cait! 

[SassAndSnacks]

On 7/29/2020 at 1:16 PM, Cdh20 said:

Oh I do hope you & your family are well too!!! Are you till working at home?

 I intend to start the next book, and read at least until the parts that were included in season 5.  It's too nice out to be inside right now so a book in the yard is a good idea!

We are well!  Still working from home, but our daycare reopened in May, so they kiddos are back in that and doing well.  

Yes!  Reading on my patio is my utopia.